00:00And we welcome Lars Henning Engelholm, who is group leader and associate professor at the Finzen Laboratory at the University of Copenhagen.
00:14Thank you for being with us here on France 24.
00:17Thank you for being here.
00:19Your research has focused on one of the deadliest forms of cancer, pancreatic cancer.
00:24And a year ago already, you were talking up the possibility that this antibody treatment could mean a breakthrough.
00:33What have you found since?
00:35Yeah, so we are working with what we call antibody drug conjugates.
00:41So it's actually a connection between very, very potent chemotherapy and an antibody.
00:46And this drug modality has made a huge difference in many cancer indications.
00:53And what we have shown in, I have to really, really stress that our preclinical models for pancreatic cancer is that we can actually cure mice with an antibody drug conjugates.
01:08However, there is still a long way before it can be tried in humans.
01:16There are several years.
01:18But we hope to get there.
01:20And the results really give the hope that this drug we have developed has a chance to make a difference in pancreatic cancer.
01:29Also, there's a special biology in pancreatic cancer.
01:35There's both a lot of normal cells and cancer cells connected.
01:41And the normal cells help the cancer cells.
01:44And our drug actually targets both the cancer cells and the normal cells.
01:50And that's why we think it can make a difference in this indication.
01:55So that's with a combination of chemotherapy.
02:02Why is this breakthrough coming in happening now?
02:05What makes this possible?
02:08Well, antibody drug conjugates has been around for quite some years.
02:15But the tuning of the correct chemotherapy to attach to the antibody is one thing.
02:23Then there's, of course, which receptor you try to target.
02:27This is also really key.
02:30And to be honest, I mean, let's say big pharma, they are very good at drug development.
02:35But they are not as good in finding perhaps the targets as we are.
02:40So many, many new ideas actually come from, say, universities.
02:49And then it takes time and a lot of money actually to bring it forward.
02:56And to be interesting for, say, drug development, it's very costly.
03:02So what we can show here now is that, yeah, the drug we have now, we have also, let's say,
03:11made it in a form that it can actually be used in humans.
03:15We start with an early version that can only be used in mice.
03:18And then we mature the project.
03:20And, yeah, so basically, I think it's a matter of several things that combines in the right way
03:29before you get such good results.
03:34Yeah, I want to get back to this issue of how you make breakthroughs in the lab.
03:40Before I do, just right now, just for our viewers, again, pancreatic cancer,
03:45one of the most aggressive forms, it's often a death sentence for many.
03:50In fact, what, for 85% of those who are diagnosed with it.
03:55Is this the most promising path we've seen in recent years?
04:02For pancreatic cancers, there's also inhibitors now in clinical trials.
04:10There's a receptor that is present, mutated receptor, KRAS,
04:15that is almost present in all pancreatic cancers.
04:21And there's also hope with these inhibitors.
04:25Unfortunately, cancers are very good at mutating.
04:30So almost anything you throw at them, they tend to hyper-mutate around it.
04:37So it is difficult, but these KRAS inhibitors give some hope.
04:42And also, there's also actually other antibody drug conjugates that seems to have some effect.
04:51So I would say it's, yeah, we really hope this can make a difference.
04:59If you look at how it goes with many of these drugs is that they perhaps do not cure the patients,
05:09but they could suspend the life for several years, and then you can come up with the next drug.
05:16So in many cases, it will be, also, especially for this cancer indication,
05:22I think it will be a combination of that you can live with a cancer disease instead of dying with it.
05:30So, yeah.
05:32And I think that will be the reality for many years.
05:37Of course, there will be some patients that can actually be cured by drugs like this,
05:42but there's still a long way.
05:44So let me ask you a couple of personal questions here.
05:47How many years have you been working on this, first of all?
05:52I started working with antibody drug conjugates in, say, 2014.
06:00I've worked with these receptors we know about for even longer,
06:03but we started working with these antibody drug conjugates.
06:06Okay, so going on 12 years.
06:09And would it have been possible to do this if you'd been in the private sector?
06:13I don't think they would.
06:20I mean, I also worked with another ADC that we spun out,
06:24and that is actually now in clinical trials with a company that was spun out.
06:28So I don't think the industry would ever have found these receptors.
06:36It's because we know so much about the biology, how they behave.
06:42I think that's why our research can make a difference.
06:47Okay, so we've had in the past year these massive cuts in the United States,
06:53most notably at the National Institute for Health,
06:56where a lot of the kind of research you're talking about takes place over in the U.S.
07:00It's huge sums of money over there.
07:02And there's been this ripple effect around the globe.
07:04It's only been one year.
07:06But will there be a knock-on effect for researchers in places like Paris and Copenhagen?
07:11I think, I mean, again, if you look at pancreatic cancer for, let's say, investors and big pharma,
07:21they would say sometimes call it a graveyard of failed drugs.
07:25So they are not super interested in putting money into this indication.
07:30So we need public funding and private charity foundations to support work like this.
07:37Otherwise, we don't get there.
07:39And of course, a massive cut like this will delay development a lot.
07:48So I think it's a very bad idea to cut funding for, say, translational research.
08:00And it's always a struggle, isn't it, when you're a scientist, to come up with the necessary funding.
08:08What's changed in the past year or two?
08:12So what changed a lot is that in Denmark, we have a special, say, research environment.
08:19There's a lot of interest also in translational science and spin out.
08:25So we got funding for especially this kind of, say, innovation we got from a Danish foundation.
08:37It's called a Frontier Grant, which is actually meant as bringing a project from a, say, research project to something that could be a drug and could be investable.
08:47And then there's also this bioincubator where we actually spun this out in a, that's the way you need to do it.
08:56Otherwise, it will just be papers, which is also important.
08:59But you need to, let's say, make it interesting for pharma and investors to further development.
09:07So you normally, you, together with the university, you spin it out in a company.
09:13And then since it is so expensive, you need that.
09:16So that has been a very big difference for us that we got these innovation grants to, say, make our early version into a human antibody.
09:28And, yeah, so, so that, that is kind of the main difference for us and also made it possible to, to do the quite expensive experiments we need to do.
09:40And, and that, that model that you're describing with those grants, they make it obviously easier for you to just concentrate on working in the lab instead of going out and fundraising.
09:55Exactly. I mean, like many other places, we are very much dependent on funding.
10:04The majority of the funding at the Finstern Laboratory is something we have to apply for.
10:10So we really, really spend a lot of time.
10:12So, I mean, we are very happy when we get these larger grants and that will give us some peace for, to actually go in the lab and do the experiments.
10:27So, yeah, we've been very grateful for that.
10:30Lars Henning Engelholm, we wish you the best of luck with your work.
10:33Many thanks for joining us here on France 24.
10:37Well, thank you.
10:38And a pleasure to be here.
10:40Stay with us.
10:40There's much more to come, more news, plus the day's business.
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