- 19 hours ago
Our voice in fashion has been undeniable for decades. Yet our representation as decision makers at the helm in the industry continues to trail behind. How are we to turn fashion on its head so equity truly reigns? We chat about this with Brandice Daniel, Bethann Hardison, and Groovy Lew.
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00:00Hi, y'all doing? I'm Corey Murray, Deputy Editor at Essence, and I want to thank you all so much
00:08for braving not only COVID, but also the rain, cloudy days to be a part of our annual fashion
00:17house. I'm really excited because as I've stepped into the role leading Essence editorial, this is
00:24sort of my first fashion week as a big wig, so I'm excited. I've been going to some shows, but I'm
00:33really, really excited about being here and having this conversation because our beautiful September
00:39issue is on newsstands right now with Megan Thee Stallion, Hot Girl Summer. Keep it going.
00:45But what I love about it is we have a wonderful piece in there talking about the business of black
00:50fashion, so I'm really excited to be a part, to be moderating this panel with these legendary
00:56legends who we're going to really deep dive about it, you know, really going from the past and present.
01:02So without further ado, I would like to welcome, I would stand, but my feet hurt, but Brandis Daniel,
01:12you are, let me get you correct, you are the Harlem Fashion Row's founder and CEO, and that show you
01:19just put on the other night, y'all. Come on. We're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about
01:25it. I don't, y'all, we're going to get into this. Former male model turned fragrance mastermind.
01:36Y'all, first of all, all right, all right, let me tell your name. It's Chris Collins, but how many
01:40black people do y'all know work in fragrance? Okay, here we go. We got one, we got one.
01:45Um, and Mr. Groovy Lou, you, first of all, I realize I've seen you around forever,
01:54and then doing my due diligence and research, I bow down to you. I mean, Nipsey Hussle, Biggie Smalls,
02:03Sean Puffy Combs, fashion visionary and aficionado. Okay, so anyway, all right,
02:10I'm going to stop fangirling out. Oh, thank you. You're welcome. So the first, so let's get into
02:18this. Um, so much like the rest of the world today, the fashion landscape is ever-changing.
02:23When you think about how black culture has influenced the fashion world, what are some
02:28things that have remained constant and true to what our culture brings to that space? And Brandis,
02:33we're going to start with you. Yeah. Um, when you really look at the landscape of our country
02:39and you think about the history of fashion design, we were at the forefront of that. So
02:45even on plantations, if you go back that far, there were black people who were actually creating
02:52dresses for society women and not just any dresses, they were creating couture. So I have a young woman
02:59right now researching and finding out who is the oldest black designer on record or the oldest woman,
03:07I'm sorry, female designer on record for this country. And right now is coming up as a black
03:13woman. So we're still- You mean not, you're not researching the first black, the first woman.
03:18First woman. Wow. Okay. And so we have a history that is so rich in this country, but it's been
03:25overlooked and it's been disregarded. And what they do is they give us a title of dressmaker. That was
03:32a title that was given to so many people was dressmaker. They weren't given the title of designer.
03:36Yeah. So really we are the foundation of the fashion and design worlds, um, in America. And,
03:45and, and so many of us don't realize that. All right. Chris. Um, yeah. So when I,
03:53when I started in fashion back in 96, um, I was modeling for Ralph Lauren, I didn't know it would
04:02take me through a 20 year journey, uh, working with them and for them, but there was so much that
04:08I saw that I knew needed to change within the fashion industry. Yeah. Um, how, how quickly did
04:14you see what needed to change? Say that again? How quickly did you see what needed to change? Um,
04:20there was always like rumblings going on that there needed to be some, some things that needed to
04:25change within the industry. But, um, Ralph Lauren, who, you know, to most, uh, designer standards
04:33was more diverse than most. And it still wasn't enough. I mean, we used, you know, people of color,
04:40people of Asian descent, people of native, Native American descent, but it still wasn't enough because
04:45I would always be the only person of color on the shoot when there were always like 20, you know,
04:53models or have you. So, um, I think things have gotten better up to this point. At least I hope so.
04:59Mm-hmm. Um, for what I could see, like from the ads that I see, um, things have gotten better,
05:05but I felt like we need trailblazers, uh, like, you know, Groovy and Brandeis and myself because
05:15there's not a whole lot of people in the industry who are really out there trying to make it happen.
05:20And we have to make room for those behind us to have opportunity. Yeah. Um, that's the one thing I
05:26tell all the retailers, um, that I work with like Sephora and Neiman's and Bergdorf. I said,
05:32just give me the opportunity to show you, um, what, you know, our brands could do. And Kimberly
05:37can attest to it. I mean, she has an amazing boutique in Harlem called Muse Experience, which
05:43I think you all should check out. Uh, you know, we always got to work three times harder and push
05:4710 times harder. So I do see that there is a change happening, but we still got a long way to go.
05:54Groovy, what were the, what are some changes that you've seen and what's remained constant?
05:57Well, the changes I've seen lately is that more young black male and female are coming
06:05out of their houses more with their styles and designs and not going to the big corporation
06:10these days. Social media is playing a major part in everything and it helps them get their
06:17styles and designs across to the world and the country that in our times we had to go out
06:24and make it happen. We had to go into Chicago. We had to go into Brooklyn. We had to go into Atlanta
06:31and, and show what we can do and what we were. So I just think nowadays from us running around,
06:42setting it off is getting better that we are like buying black and celebrating each other more days.
06:51I grew up chasing the Willie Ware Smiths and Carl Knies and April Walker's and the Tony Shelman's
06:59all black designers. Like I felt like I had a chance to reach them instead of the Tommies and the Polos and
07:07these guys. So that's one thing that I did like reach out to my black designers and see if I can assist
07:15them or how I can work with them. And that's what helped me build.
07:18Okay. Okay. And what were, do you guys have any specific things that you witnessed as you were
07:25coming up that, that unfortunately may still be happening today when it comes to diversity behind
07:31the scenes? There is still less than about one to two percent of designers that are in major department
07:41stores that are designers of color. That hasn't changed since I started. That same statistic has remained.
07:46There is more now, but it still hasn't moved the needle a ton. And then when you go inside
07:53of retailers and go inside of brands, they don't even want me to walk on their design floor.
07:58You know, I've had several brands go, Brandis, I'm like, let me see your design floor. Nope.
08:03I'm so sorry. We're not taking you there. And they will tell me, Brandis, we're embarrassed
08:07to take you there because we know that you're going to be tracking and we don't have enough black designers.
08:12Wow. So that's the thing that, you know, it was true 14 years ago when I started homes fashion row
08:19and it's still true now. And I will say now because of the last year, brands are now trying to figure
08:24out like, how do I change that quickly? Um, but it's, it's still, still a struggle and a battle with
08:33in-house and also, you know, in our multi, uh, vendor retailers. What about you in the fragrance
08:39space? I think last year when all the social unrest was happening, it brought like a spotlight
08:46on black designers, black creators in general. And then all of a sudden you saw all these brands
08:53come out of the woodwork and being spotlighted when we were already here. It was a shame that it took
09:00that to actually say, now look at us. Um, but we were already there. I think, um, there was a friend
09:08of mine who you all know, Ms. Julie, she did something on social media where she highlighted
09:13about 200 black owned beauty brands. And I had no idea that they were that many, but you know,
09:21the opportunity presented itself. And I think that we need to take advantage of it,
09:25even though it was unfortunate the way that it happened. But, um, again, we still have a long way
09:30to go, but at least now these brands are being spotlighted. Um, I'm sure that there are a lot of
09:37retailers that have given me a chance because they know that they have to start giving us chances.
09:43Yeah. To, to perform, um, and to, to, to compete and, you know, and show what we have. But, you know,
09:51it's not easy, but we have to fight. Groovy, would you say the work that you've done with the younger
09:56generation has been easier given the pathway you, you paved? I wouldn't say easier. Um,
10:05it's just that the younger generation, they know what they want a little more. Like, you know what I mean?
10:10They, they like, they're not listening to like, it's no, um, blueprint for them. They just do them.
10:19They're having fun with it. They're being creative with it and take it. This is what it is. You either
10:25love us or you leave us alone. And, um, that's something that we have to work on as being older.
10:32We have to listen more to the youngins cause it's their world. Like, you know what I mean?
10:37We had our chance when we was young, we was fighting, kicking down the doors,
10:41having people listen to us and giving great ideas. And now the youngins come with their energy and
10:47their swag and we think they wild, but this is their time. So we have to listen and help and give
10:54information and guide them as we can. So they'll be in a better place as well for the next to come
11:01after them. All right, cool. Thank you for that. I mean, that's exactly what I was kind of alluding
11:05to. Like being the trailblazer, you need the machete going through the woods, but leave the path open for
11:11the ones that are behind us, the younger generation that are trying to create in the space that they
11:16didn't think they could possibly create. There are very few black perfumers, uh, art designers, um,
11:26you know, brand owners and beauty. But at least now if they see me or they see Brandeis or they see Groovy,
11:33they say, oh, well, this is possible. And then they can do, they can come up.
11:36Because if I could do it, anybody can do it.
11:40Yeah, I give thanks. Fashion saved my life and, and many others around me.
11:45That's right. And you take a very spiritual approach. You're not traditional.
11:50Start first with everything. You know, we give thanks for that breath. Without that,
11:54we wouldn't be able to do anything. So that's first. And then we go do what we do.
11:58Okay. Now, Brandeis, what was the impetus for you to start Harlem Fashion Road 14 years ago?
12:07What was it? And then how have you seen it evolve? And tell us how you took over the streets of
12:13Harlem. Like you always do it, but you, a literal street this time.
12:17Yeah. So often we have ideas and sometimes we have ideas and we like wake up and think about
12:23that idea. And then we dream about it and then we're talking about it. Um, and that's what it
12:28was for Harlem Fashion Road. So I went to a fashion show in Brooklyn. I had this idea that I really
12:33couldn't let go of. And I was like, I have to move on this. And so we did the first event in 2007.
12:38We featured, there were all of these amazing boutiques, black owned boutiques that were
12:42popping up in Harlem, like within two or three blocks of where I was living. And so we featured
12:47them. And then the second year I was looking for black designers and I couldn't find any.
12:51And that was like, okay, I feel like sometimes like I started with passion and then I met a problem.
12:57And I feel like sometimes when passion and problem meet, that's really where you find your purpose.
13:01And that's what it was for me. Um, and then I knew, okay, I don't know like who I am to be doing
13:06this because I'm from Memphis. I don't have any fashion connections, but let me do what I can.
13:11And that was really the start of Harlem's fashion row.
13:14Wait, I just realized you said you had no fashion connections.
13:16No. In the beginning I had none, zero. So it was, you know, but what I would do at the top of
13:23every year, I would identify three people. I wanted to know my name by the end of the year.
13:28And for those three people, I would send them cards. I would send them books. I would reach out to
13:33them. I would do like little things for holidays for them. And my goal was by the end of the year,
13:37I want those three people to know my name. And then the next year I would pick three new people.
13:40And I did that for like five or six years. That's a networking tip.
13:45Yep. And it, and it worked. And I, and I, and I built real relationships. They weren't like,
13:51Oh, here's my card. It was like real relationships. I remember one time Bevy Smith told me,
13:56don't send me anything else. We're good. So, um, so that, that was how I kind of got started. But
14:04this year coming out from the pandemic, I was like, we can't do, we got to do something different.
14:11Yeah. You know, this has been a year we've been stuck in a house. We all need to feel inspired.
14:15I need to do something way outside my comfort zone. The last year has taught me that life is not sure.
14:20I don't know what's going to happen next year. So we need to go all in. Yeah. And I came up with
14:26this idea. I want to do a fashion show on the block where I started Harlem's fashion road,
14:29which is the 137th street where I lived. And I want to do the awards on my stoop,
14:34which was also inspired by Elaine Weddeross wedding. And so, um, and I called the only
14:41events company that I could think of that could pull that off. And they did. And it was one of
14:47the most incredible experiences of my life. Wow. Wow. Incredible. Groovy. I'm curious. What did you do?
14:55I mean, as a guy coming up from the streets, how did you, did, what, did you have any networking
15:00things that you did to really break in? I did everything. I came up in Mount Vernon,
15:05New York, like the home of the heavy D's and Albie Shores and Pete Rock, Denzel Washington's like,
15:12so we, we was already famous growing up. We just had to go put our fortune to it. Yeah.
15:19So I assisted, I worked on everything. I went to every concert. I went everywhere. I put myself
15:27around everything. People who started like, who are you? What do you do? Like they, I went to all
15:32the Jack the Rappers, all the, how can I be down? These is all the early events that show you and groom
15:40you and you network. And so I went to everything. I was just nosy. I helped everybody. Yeah. Just got to get
15:48into like getting where you fit in. I assisted everybody. I helped everybody. I carry box. I
15:53did everything you can do just so people could see me. I'm like, if they see me, I'm good. It's
15:59only one crown. They're going to remember me. I'm going to be pleasant. I'm going to be kind. I'm
16:04going to be loving, but I have something to bring to the table. So I just kept putting myself around
16:09people and events. And I kept telling them, I'm a stylist. I would like to work with you.
16:15I will call the June Ambrose's. I will call the Sybil Penix. I'll call Carl Canale. I'll just call
16:20everybody. Same thing. I wasn't giving gifts yet, but I was calling, letting them know, how you doing?
16:27My name is Groovy Lou. I would love to work with you. The name is sticking in their head. And then when
16:32they see me, I'm like, I was the one that was, so I just kept it going, kept it going. Okay.
16:36And then quick story. One day I was at the Sauce Magazine. Diddy was all big time. So he got on his
16:42phone and he walked out the office and it was a meeting. So I just continued holding the meeting.
16:48And I came up with an idea to put Mary J. Blige on his ice block chair because I had a poster.
16:55Yes. I remember that.
16:56I had the poster of George Girvin back in the days. It was a basketball player. He was sitting on an ice
17:02chair. So I was like, why don't you guys do an ice chair? I just threw it out there. And then next
17:09thing I know, Mary J was on a cover sitting on an ice chair. So I'm like, wow, that's called true
17:15pleasure. So if I can think of something and they can bring, so that opened me up. And then I just
17:21wanted to do more and more and more and more. That was the issue. I'm about to nerd out for two
17:25seconds that they named her the queen of hip hop soul, Kieran Amell. She did that story. It was the first
17:30time they credited her. That was my idea of the ice chair because I had a poster of a basketball player.
17:35Yeah. Yeah. So that's it. So we don't have a lot more time, but Chris, I want to go to you
17:42and ask you, what advice do you have for any aspiring black fashion creative?
17:51Start. In the door now. Start, fail, get up, start again, fail, get up, start again.
18:01Sometimes people see the end of where you are, but they don't realize the journey that you go
18:08through. I remember like I used to be on billboards all over the place and people used to come to me
18:15and say, you know, I really want to do that. I can do that. Like, how do I get there? I'm like, well,
18:21you didn't see me taking the bus into the city from Jersey, trying to go to castings, trying to get,
18:28trying to break into the business. It's, it's, it's a rough road, but start and fail and just keep
18:35going because, you know, if it was easy, it wouldn't be great if you got to that point.
18:43So that's my only advice to people. Just start. Like a lot of people have ideas. I say, write them
18:48down. Look at that. Own it. Like, you know, let it check you every morning because ideas can go in
18:55and out of your head. So many ideas we have, but write it down, make it kinetic, make them make it
19:01move and then make it happen. Curious. Did you have a mentor as you were breaking into into fragrances?
19:09Well, before me was Tyson. So, you know, he was about two or three years before me. So we would
19:15have like conversations about the business and, um, you know, for him, you know, he was a trailblazer
19:22in fashion and then me working with him on photo shoots. And then he moved on and did his thing.
19:28And then I, you know, continued working with Ralph, but you know, even though fashion was my life,
19:35fragrance was always my thing. Yeah. Like when I was young and I didn't have a lot of money,
19:40like I can buy like my obsession for men for like $40 and still feel luxurious. Yeah. And then I figured
19:49out that it's the small things that make you feel good. Fragrance makes you feel good, you know?
19:57And it's not, you know, no, no offense to anyone who was like in the fashion, but I think perfume
20:03is part of fashion. Yeah. You know, it's psychological. It's how you feel. So I have a whole new respect
20:10for how fragrance is made watching Halston. Oh, did you see that? I saw that. That was so funny
20:16because I had a conversation today about that. Yeah. Because the perfumer was that, did anyone see
20:21that? The Halston documentary? I watched the Halston documentary. Where he started crying because the
20:25perfumer, that's how I, I literally burst out in tears sometimes over fragrances I create. Yeah.
20:31Because I have to get so deep personally that it's, that Halston documentary was incredible.
20:38It was incredible. And that is a kind of window into how perfume is created. Yeah. Groovy. What would
20:46be your advice for anyone trying to get into this business right now?
20:50I just say, put yourself around a good team. Some people that's doing like-minded things,
20:57you know, that you would like to do and just get up off the couch and get outside and go hard. You
21:04know what I mean? Everybody's the man or woman in their hood, but just to be that around the world
21:10takes a little more energy. So just put yourself around a good team and just show up where it's
21:16popping at. Thank you.
21:20Brandis, I'm going to end with you because I have a feeling you have a word to give.
21:24But what do you say to those who are really trying to get in that door and they keep telling,
21:29get told no, the emails don't get answered, the DMs don't get answered. What do you say?
21:34That was my life for like 10 years. You know, you have to be so, you have to be doing something
21:43for the right reason. So your why needs to be so strong that you're willing to withstand anything
21:51to achieve your goal. If your why is something that doesn't make you cry, if your why is something
21:57that doesn't give you the strength to push past the no, you might not be doing the right thing.
22:04So, but when your why is so critical to you, you'll, you'll walk through the doors. You'll take the
22:12no, you'll take the rejection. You'll keep going because you understand that it's so much bigger
22:18than you. So I always say, make sure your why is right first, because if your why is right,
22:26you can deal with anything and it's a part of the journey. No one gets yeses all the way through.
22:32It is a part of the journey and then be tunnel focused. Like with social media,
22:37sometimes I have to delete Instagram, like for weeks, just delete it because it's a distraction
22:43for me. So just get, do whatever you have to do to have tunnel vision for whatever it is you want
22:49to accomplish. All right. Thank you each. I hope y'all was taking notes. All right,
22:56I'm gonna be selfish and take a selfie. Hold on.
22:58Can y'all smile? I got us all. Okay. Thank you all so much. Thank you.
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