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00:00On Ask This Old House, our experts travel across the country to answer questions about your house.
00:19Today, Ross discusses the advancements in water tank technology,
00:24and works with a homeowner to install a solar thermal unit.
00:28Then, do you have problems with houseplant pests?
00:32Jen gives advice on how to get rid of them.
00:35And, Nathan helps a homeowner get better access to their attic by installing pull-down stairs.
00:42On Ask This Old House.
00:48Hi, I'm Ross Rathui, and welcome back to another episode of Ask This Old House.
00:53When most people think about solar, they think about photovoltaic panels,
00:57or solar electric panels that take the sun's energy and convert it into electricity.
01:01There's also solar thermal, which uses the sun's energy to create heat or hot water used for domestic hot water or pool heating.
01:09But today, we're headed to a homeowner's house to help them upgrade their water heater.
01:13And we're going to be using a new technology that pairs up heat pumps with solar thermal collectors.
01:18We're really excited to help them out.
01:22You must be JC.
01:23Hi, Ross. Welcome to our home.
01:25Yeah, well, glad to be here.
01:26You wrote in about a water heater upgrade and trying to get more efficient.
01:30So, tell me about that.
01:31So, we use exclusively oil here.
01:33And because of that, our water heater is all electric and it's not very efficient.
01:39So, we'd like to upgrade to a more efficient water heater if possible.
01:43Right.
01:44So, you've got an oil system for space heating and you have a traditional electric water heater for domestic hot water.
01:50That's correct.
01:51Got it. Okay.
01:52Well, I got a jump start on it and I reached out to a local company that specializes in energy efficient water heating options.
01:57He's going to help us out today.
01:58I think he's in the basement already.
02:00I can take you there and meet him.
02:01All right, let's go.
02:06Hey, Bruce.
02:07Good to see you.
02:08What's going on?
02:09How are you?
02:10All right.
02:11So, you get a lay of the land here about what's going on.
02:12I see the oil boiler.
02:13Yeah.
02:14The electric water heater.
02:15Yeah.
02:16So, in this house, the space heating is by oil boiler and the domestic hot water is by what we call this a resistance water heater.
02:21Just a regular electric tank.
02:22So, there's an electric element in the top.
02:24There's an electric element in the bottom.
02:26This is the cold in from the street and this is the hot out to the house.
02:29Efficiency wise, we're looking at?
02:31So, it's efficiency is about one or a little bit less.
02:34So, a unit of electricity goes in, you get a unit of hot water out.
02:38Dollar in, dollar out.
02:39Okay.
02:40So, when you think about these, we think about upgrades and what can we do better?
02:43Right.
02:44So, what are the other options out there?
02:45Right.
02:46So, the hybrid water heaters.
02:47Everybody's installing heat pumps.
02:48As a matter of fact, in 2029, you're not going to be able to even buy these.
02:51You're going to have to put a heat pump water heater in your basement.
02:53Wow.
02:54So, that's what we're talking about today.
02:55So, that's what I see over here, right?
02:56Exactly.
02:57This is a conventional hybrid or heat pump water heater.
03:01They're called air source because they take warm air from the room.
03:03They harvest the energy through the compressor or the heat pump unit on top.
03:06They take the warm energy out of that air and then they blow cold air out.
03:09So, these units can operate where on the efficiency scale?
03:12The name plate efficiency are extremely high for some of these units.
03:15They're like four, but that's in a test condition.
03:17You know, in real world conditions, it'll be between two and three.
03:19Got it.
03:20You know how cold the basement is and stuff like that.
03:21Got it.
03:22So, if we're in a hot climate, you know, very warm where you have air conditioning demands
03:26pretty much year-round, this is a great solution, right?
03:29Yeah.
03:30It's a phenomenal solution.
03:31In the south, for example, there's a lot of water heaters in garages.
03:33So, some air conditioning and dehumidification in your otherwise hot and humid garage is a good thing.
03:38Right.
03:39If you're up here in the northeast where, you know, there's space heating and you have to heat your home,
03:42it's not necessarily a good thing.
03:43Right.
03:44All right.
03:45So, what other options do we have in a cold climate like this?
03:46So, this is a split system.
03:49Far less known, right?
03:50Far less understood.
03:51Okay.
03:52But basically, instead of harvesting warm air from inside, there's an evaporator panel that gets mounted
03:57on the wall anywhere in the house and it harvests the heat from outside, right?
04:00So, that panel right there reminds me of a solar panel.
04:03Exactly.
04:04And so, you're mounting that outside.
04:05Yep.
04:06And that is like the outdoor heat pump.
04:07That's the evaporator panel effectively for a heat pump.
04:10Exactly.
04:11So, there's no effect on the conditioned space inside.
04:12It's not blowing cold air.
04:14You don't have to reheat anything.
04:15And it looks like a solar panel, but what's happening is that the refrigerant, all these
04:19units use refrigerant.
04:20The refrigerant is going through the evaporator and it's evaporating and gaining energy and
04:24going back inside to the heat pump unit which has a compressor which ultimately makes
04:28the hot water.
04:29So, the usual common question I get is, so if it's 32 degrees outside or even colder,
04:33how does that thing work?
04:34Exactly.
04:35Exactly.
04:36So, the efficiency of this is extremely high in the summer.
04:38In the winter, the efficiency is less.
04:39But all that means is that the heat pump unit itself, the compressor runs longer.
04:43So, lower COP in the winter, but still vastly higher than a regular electric water heater.
04:47Sure.
04:48So, on an annual basis, it'll be between two and three in the high twos.
04:51Higher in the summer, lower in the winter.
04:53Got it.
04:54So, you increase the net COP compared to that.
04:56Yes.
04:57And you're way higher efficiency compared to that.
04:58Exactly.
04:59So, the cold climate like this, the fact that I don't have to have discharging cold air and
05:02putting that onus on the heating system, the fact that I can do that with an outdoor
05:05heat pump effectively with that panel, that really gives us that boost and especially
05:08if the sun is shining on it.
05:09That's right.
05:10So, this thing is smart enough to know that when the sun is shining on it, oftentimes that panel
05:14doesn't see a lot of sun.
05:15Sometimes it doesn't see any sun.
05:17It's designed to work by convection, which means air movement.
05:19Right.
05:20If it happens to get some sun on it, then it's happier.
05:22But the test conditions assume that there's no sun and there's no air movement.
05:25So, it's meant to go on the back of a house and the landscaping and stuff like that.
05:28Okay.
05:29So, JC, the question comes down to which option?
05:31What are you thinking about here for an upgrade?
05:33Well, this definitely sounds like a great option.
05:35So, let's do it.
05:36Let's install this.
05:37All right.
05:38Let's get to work.
05:39All right, Bruce, we'll help you out.
05:40Thank you, Bruce.
05:41Yeah.
05:42First thing we do is we go in the basement.
05:43We figure out where we place the new heat pump on the walls.
05:46We measure from the floor.
05:47We mark the holes.
05:48We hammer drill.
05:53We put a level on it because our heat pump needs to be leveled.
06:00And then a two-person operation.
06:02We hang the heat pump onto the bracket.
06:05And then we maneuver the storage tank next to the heat pump so we're not wasting space.
06:11Electrical.
06:12First thing you want to do is make sure that connections are safe.
06:14So, that means that after you turn the breaker off, and then we mount a new junction box.
06:18The tank is in a different location, so we have to extend the conductors to the new location.
06:24From that junction box, we'll mount a new MC cable.
06:28From the junction box to the tank, we screw the covers back on the tank and the four-square
06:37junction box, and then we test the circuit.
06:40Next step, they remove the old tank.
06:42They shut the water off.
06:44They drain the existing tanks.
06:46They cut some piping.
06:47They remove the old tank that wielded away.
06:54Then they measured and cut and made connections to the new tank, pro-press connections to the
06:59tank.
07:00On the refrigeration side, we're going to run the new line set through an exterior wall penetration.
07:08We connect our line set to the heat pump and to the evaporator panel outside.
07:12We test with nitrogen for leaks, and we perform a refrigeration triple vacuum to get all the
07:19non-condensibles and moisture out of the system and make sure that the system runs as cool
07:22as possible and as efficient as possible.
07:27All right.
07:28The system is on.
07:29The tank is filled with cold water.
07:30The heat pump is operational.
07:32We're in business, right?
07:33Exactly.
07:34So, this panel that we screwed it to the wall, it's got nice stainless steel screws.
07:37It only weighs about 10 pounds.
07:39Our line set goes through this nice line hide, and then our heat pump is about six feet away
07:43on the wall here, so it has a nice short line set length.
07:45Nice.
07:46So, the panel is made of aluminum, powder-coated, and no moving parts out here.
07:50Exactly.
07:51It can't rust.
07:52It can't do anything.
07:53It'll last indefinitely.
07:54Nice.
07:55And Bruce, I see frost on the panel.
07:56Is that normal?
07:57It is normal, and it makes us happy because that means that the refrigerant is coming out
08:00at relatively low pressure, and it's very cold.
08:02It's cold enough such that the moisture in the air is condensing on it and freezing.
08:07That means it's doing its job.
08:08There's no defrost cycle.
08:09This will run until it's 20 below Fahrenheit.
08:12That's amazing.
08:13I also brought an infrared camera.
08:15So, on this infrared camera here, and you can see that panel is averaging around 20 degrees.
08:20Wow.
08:21So, all the hot, you know, humid air, that 50 degree air that we see is actually condensing
08:25and creating frost on that surface.
08:27I see.
08:28So, that means it's actually working.
08:29Exactly.
08:30Phase change is good.
08:31As far as efficiency, you know, what will JC save compared to his old electric water heater?
08:36So, it's about a third, right?
08:38The coefficient of performance or efficiency of these systems is about three.
08:42Your electric water heater is about one.
08:44That's great.
08:45That's cool.
08:46And installation cost-wise, how does this compare if he went with the centralized, you know,
08:50traditional heat pump water heater?
08:51Yeah.
08:52So, our company installs both.
08:53We install the, you know, the conventional unitary heat pump water heaters, and we install
08:56these, of course.
08:57You know, we think everybody should have a heat pump water heater, but at the 80-gallon
09:00size, this is actually slightly less for us.
09:02And in most cases in Massachusetts, it makes more sense.
09:04Well, Bruce, this is great.
09:05Thank you so much for your help today.
09:07That was awesome.
09:08JC, you happy with everything?
09:09Thank you, Ross.
09:10Yes, I am.
09:11Awesome.
09:12Great.
09:13Thank you, Bruce.
09:14Thank you, JC.
09:15All right.
09:16Until next time.
09:17Cool.
09:20I'm seeing more bottles than plants.
09:22What are we talking here?
09:23This is the doctor section of the show.
09:25Okay.
09:26So, we're talking about houseplants.
09:27A lot of times, people don't know what to do when certain types of bugs come in, right?
09:32So, pest control.
09:33Yeah.
09:34There are solutions if you catch it early.
09:35Yeah.
09:36Okay.
09:37So, let's start talking with mealy bugs.
09:39Let's.
09:40They're like a white cottony bug, right?
09:43That you usually found at the base of the stem.
09:45This one, I know, started in the new growth and it migrated up.
09:49And what they do is they pierce the plant and they suck out the sap and then they create
09:54this substance called honeydew.
09:56Hmm.
09:57And then after they have the honeydew, it's like this sticky substance that's left on the
10:01leaf and that promotes something called sooty mold, which is black, like a black spotty
10:06that you would notice over the plant.
10:08So, a double whammy.
10:09Yeah.
10:10So, the sucking of the sap is no good, but then that black mold that can grow because
10:13of it, no good.
10:14Correct.
10:15So, what we have to do is attack the mealy bug.
10:17Don't worry about the mold because it's caused by the mealy bug.
10:20Hmm.
10:21How do we attack the mealy bug?
10:22So, first of all, try washing it off first.
10:24With just water in the shower or sink, spray it down, physically try to remove it.
10:28Just wash them away.
10:29Yep.
10:30If that doesn't work, take a mixture of rubbing alcohol and water, spray it down,
10:34and then see if you can wipe them off.
10:36Hmm.
10:37For this resort, use neem oil.
10:39This is also a great product, and it's an organic product.
10:42It's just derived from a seed from a tree.
10:44Some people don't like to use it because it has a little bit of an odor.
10:47That's effective.
10:48Very effective.
10:49And so, when I hear oils, I think of it as sort of as not poisoning the bug,
10:52but kind of encapsulating it so it can't do?
10:54It'll cover and suffocate it.
10:55Suffocate it.
10:56Okay.
10:57All right.
10:58So, that's that.
10:59And then, for other plants, such as this succulent, the mealy bugs like to hide
11:03in little cracks and crevices.
11:05Mm-hmm.
11:06So, take rubbing alcohol with a cotton pad, go like this, and then just physically pull
11:12them off.
11:13And the alcohol's not going to hurt the plant.
11:15It shouldn't, but do a test spot on the backside.
11:18Because I like mine with a little bit of tonic, but I get it.
11:20All right.
11:21What's going on with this plant here?
11:23This plant has spider mites.
11:26Ooh.
11:27So, spider mites are a little bug that crawls around.
11:29You can see they start to create like a web, right?
11:33Spider.
11:34Therefore, the spider.
11:35Yeah.
11:36You can barely see them with the human eye, but they are visible.
11:39Kind of like, if you look at that leaf.
11:41So, you can't necessarily see the bugs, but you can see the webs.
11:44Yeah.
11:45But I know they're there because of the webs and then also because of spotting on the leaves.
11:49You have yellow and brown spots.
11:51It doesn't look like a healthy plant to you, does it?
11:53Not at all.
11:54That one, I can tell, is not doing well.
11:55Right.
11:56And what causes spider mites to show up?
11:58Like, why are they going after a particular plant?
12:01One reason why spider mites show up is very dry conditions.
12:04If your plant is dry, dry, dry all the time, it's perfect environment for spider mites.
12:10So...
12:11So, proper watering could be preventative.
12:12Yep.
12:13Keep your soil moist and appropriate, but not soaking wet.
12:15Right.
12:16There's all the balance.
12:17How do we take care of spider mites?
12:19Well, start with spraying with a solution of dish soap and water.
12:24Dilute the dish soap, spray it on, and just like these guys over here, it suffocates it.
12:31So, soapy water, spray it on, and if that doesn't work, go to the neem oil.
12:36Again, either one will work fine.
12:38Very good.
12:39What are you trying to show us with this?
12:40Here we have fungus gnat problem.
12:43Mmm.
12:44So, what's a fungus gnat?
12:45It starts with the larvae in the soil, and once they grow up to be an adult, they start to fly around.
12:50Which you can see, right?
12:51Right.
12:52Because I do see gnats everywhere.
12:53I saved you one.
12:54This guy that...
12:55You caught one?
12:56Yeah.
12:57So, this is a sticky trap, right?
12:59That's one of the remedies?
13:00Yep.
13:01Yeah.
13:02They get in, they fly, they hit, and then they get stuck.
13:04Look at you, Ninja Warrior.
13:05That could be used for any of these insects that fly around, a little sticky trap.
13:10Another thing, very important, is to kill the larvae inside of the soil.
13:15This is a natural granule that is a natural pesticide.
13:20So, you mix it with water, apply it to the soil, and then it will kill the larvae.
13:25That's interesting.
13:26Big Words says kills mosquito larvae.
13:28Yes.
13:29Kills mosquito larvae, but also the gnat larvae.
13:31Yep.
13:32So, if there's that outside, you could use that for treatment as well.
13:34Cool.
13:35Okay.
13:36So, that's how we get rid of them if they show up.
13:37How do we prevent them?
13:39Like, stop them from ever even showing up?
13:41That's a good question.
13:42So, with the fungus gnats, this is caused by too much moisture in the soil.
13:46Fungus gnats love a moist environment.
13:49So, don't overwater.
13:50Don't overwater that.
13:51This one is the exact opposite.
13:53Spider mites like a dry environment.
13:56So...
13:57Don't underwater.
13:58Don't underwater.
13:59You can see your plants and know what soil to use and have a well-drained pot.
14:03It's a pretty good rule of thumb, right?
14:05A healthy plant that's taken care of is going to prevent the bugs from wanting to get there.
14:10Yeah.
14:11So, keep them healthy.
14:12Inspect them.
14:13Very nice.
14:14Awesome.
14:15Thank you, Jen.
14:16Hey, Denelson.
14:17Hey, Nathan.
14:18How's it going?
14:19Good.
14:20Nice to meet you.
14:21So, you owe me about access to an attic space.
14:22Yeah.
14:23So, right now, all we have is this small hole.
14:24Oh, yeah.
14:25And in the future, we're thinking about getting heating and cooling.
14:27Okay.
14:28So, we had some contractors come in and they told us to get something a little bit bigger.
14:31So, kind of a small spot, also kind of in an awkward space, right?
14:32Right here next to the stairs.
14:33Yeah.
14:34Go down.
14:35Whenever I set up the ladder, I do feel uncomfortable being close to the stairs.
14:36I don't blame you.
14:37Well, it's cool.
14:38You already got the kit.
14:39It's definitely a two-man job.
14:40You got a spot you want to put it?
14:41Yeah.
14:42I was thinking about putting it in front of this light.
14:43This light over here.
14:44This does seem like a good spot right here.
14:45Yeah.
14:46So, I was already in the attic.
14:47I moved around some insulation.
14:48Okay.
14:49I noticed that the joists do run this way.
14:50So, I think it's a good spot.
14:51Perfect.
14:52I'm going to hop up there and take a look and we'll get started.
14:53Okay.
14:54All right.
14:55This is a great spot.
14:56Nice and open.
14:57No plumbing.
14:58No electrical.
14:59Danilson, what was the size of that unit?
15:00It's 22 and a half by 54.
15:02So, you know, I was thinking about putting it in front of this light.
15:03Yeah.
15:04So, I was thinking about putting it in front of this light.
15:05This light over here.
15:06This does seem like a good spot right here.
15:08Yeah.
15:09So, I was already in the attic.
15:10I moved around some insulation.
15:11Okay.
15:12I noticed that the joists do run this way.
15:13So, I think it's a good spot.
15:14Perfect.
15:15Danilson, what was the size of that unit?
15:17It's 22 and a half by 54.
15:19Nice.
15:20So, we got 25, 54.
15:25That's perfect.
15:26That'll fit right in.
15:28All we have to do is close down this opening a little bit.
15:30Create our new rough opening, but we don't have to cut anything.
15:33Okay.
15:34Great.
15:35That sounds good.
15:36All right, Danilson.
15:37I'm going to drive a screw down next to this existing ceiling joists.
15:39Right here in this corner.
15:40I want you to go over, take a look and see where it lands.
15:43Okay.
15:44I see it.
15:45All right, I'm going to go down a little bit further, and I'm going to put another
15:48one in.
15:49Okay.
15:56Okay, I see the second one.
15:57All right, I'm going to come down and take a look with you.
16:00All right, now we have something that we can measure off of.
16:02Let's see what we're working with.
16:04Okay.
16:05So over here, off this partition wall, I have about 38 1⁄8.
16:14And then coming back over here, I have about 38 1⁄4.
16:20So not too bad, within an eighth.
16:22And then I know I want to come off this back screw.
16:25My rough opening is going to be about 55 inches.
16:28So we're not too close to the light.
16:30This area is going to work out really well.
16:31The ladder's got a great area to land.
16:33I can go up.
16:34I'm going to start framing out that rough opening.
16:36Then we're going to cut that hole open, but we're going to create a lot of dust.
16:39So if you want to set up protection, you work on that, I'll work on that, and then we'll cut it open.
16:43Okay, sounds good.
16:44I'll take care of it.
16:48All right, to start framing down my opening to receive the ladder, I'm going to add two 2x4s down here.
16:54I'm going to fill in.
16:55They're going to be 25 inches long.
17:03I'm going to put two more down there.
17:05I'm going to add this 2x4 to the edge here, and that will drop the spacing down to 23 and a half inches.
17:18All right, so we have all our four corners located, and I'm going to use a piece of 1x4.
17:23It's going to do two things for us.
17:24It's going to create a straight edge from screw to screw, but also it's going to compress your ceiling together
17:29because you have wood lath, plaster, and then I believe another skim coat of sheetrock.
17:33So probably a half-inch piece of sheetrock below that.
17:36So it's going to compress everything together as we cut.
17:38There's a lot of vibration, and that old plaster and lath always likes to break up.
17:42So we're going to try and minimize any of the repairs needed.
17:44We're good.
17:45We're good.
17:46We're good.
18:07Perfect, good job.
18:20We're going to cut the ceiling into two sections so that it's easier to pull down.
18:24All right, pass them down.
18:30Ready?
18:31Yeah.
18:32Okay.
18:33You got it.
18:36So just as we thought, you have your wood lav, you have your horsehair plaster, you can
18:41see all the fibers, and then they skimmed the ceiling with half-inch sheetrock there
18:45and then plastered over that.
18:47So a lot of layers, so it's nice to sandwich everything together for that clean cut.
18:52One more cut and we're done.
18:57All right, got it?
19:06Got it.
19:07All right.
19:08Down to you.
19:09Nice job.
19:10Thanks.
19:11All right, what we're going to do now is we're going to take some 1x4 and we're going to do
19:15a couple of cleats across the bottom here.
19:23That's going to allow us to bring that ladder back, put it in.
19:26It's going to lower down and it's going to sit nice and flush with your ceiling.
19:29All right, how's that look down there?
19:31It looks pretty good.
19:32I'm going to shim it, screw it, and then we can open it up.
19:36Let's take a look and see how it turns out.
20:04That goes down.
20:05It looks pretty good coming through here, but then we've got a big gap right there.
20:09So typically these ladders do come long and you cut them to fit your space.
20:13If it was a little too short, we would adjust these brackets up here to try and make that
20:17drop more.
20:18But I think the solution for here is we've got to cut those legs.
20:22To do that, I'm going to flip this up out of the way.
20:26I am going to project my tape down and then I'll grab one measurement off the back.
20:31So projecting that leg down 32 inches.
20:33So I'm going to hook onto that side, measure 32 inches.
20:41And I'm going to make this a square cut, 90 degree.
20:47Once we put our feet back on, remember those feet have that angle to them.
20:51So the feet will go back on, slide up and we'll stop at that 32.
20:57So let's see how we did flip it up, put it down.
21:13Nice and tight, nice and tight.
21:16Should I try?
21:17Yep.
21:18Nice and sturdy?
21:19Yeah, it feels pretty good.
21:20Alright, awesome.
21:21If you want to go and cut all the shims, we'll trim it out, insulate it and then we're done.
21:23Okay, I can do that.
21:24Alright, outside I put together this picture frame with some three and a half inch colonial
21:37casing.
21:38So what we're going to do is we're going to hold it up.
21:40There's going to be just a little bit of a reveal.
21:44All right, now I'm going to insulate the opening.
22:02And I'm adding an insulated attic access cover that will help reduce energy loss.
22:07All right, push this all the way down, drop this.
22:14I think you are good to go.
22:17Yeah, thanks for the help today.
22:18I think it came out really great.
22:20You're welcome.
22:21A little bit of homework for you.
22:22We'll paint the trim, tighten that up and then once a year oil these hinge points and I
22:26think you're good to go.
22:27Okay, I can manage that.
22:28There you go.
22:30Nice to meet you.
22:31Same here, take care.
22:37Next time on Ask This Old House, Nathan and Lee team up to bring some curb appeal to a
22:46homeowner's front yard.
22:47Put that top rail in.
22:50It just looks amazing.
22:52Then, Mauro is talking paint spills and how to clean them.
22:57And Heath gives a lesson on how three-way switches work.
23:01What do I screw into what?
23:02It looks confusing, but let me try and make it as simple as possible.
23:06All that on Ask This Old House.
23:36I certainly assure you, my friends, and my friends,
23:37we are going to speak.
23:41Bye.
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