- 21 hours ago
French MPs on Wednesday unanimously approved a bill seeking to end "marital duty", after criticism about its use to ignore sexual consent in marriage and marital rape. Michele Goodwin, Professor of Constitutional Law and Global Health Policy at Georgetown University, says that "legislatures have played a significant role in keeping women far behind" and that "because of these philosophies in law, women could be sexually abused by their husbands and even their boyfriends".
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NewsTranscript
00:00This is Apropos.
00:05Voters of the legislation are hopeful that it will help to deter and raise awareness about
00:09marriage.
00:10Lawmakers here in France have moved to abolish the concept of marital duty.
00:15The antiquated notion that married couples are required to have sex.
00:20Here's Monty Francis.
00:22For 20 years, Ingrid was married.
00:25He admitted the same man and felt pressure to have sex with him under a legal obligation.
00:30He said, she's my wife, so that's it.
00:32When I said I didn't want to, he said he would take a mis-
00:35that he would look elsewhere.
00:37So those were the threats when I didn't-
00:40One, two, I was punished.
00:41J'étais punie, quoi.
00:42J'étais punie.
00:43Ingrid is not alone.
00:45A recent survey found that more than half of French women reported sex with their partner
00:49that was either full-
00:50forced or coerced.
00:51On Wednesday, the National Assembly passed a bill doing away with any-
00:55legal obligation to have sexual relations within marriage.
00:58Madame la Rapporteure.
01:00I would also like to spare a thought for all the women who were forced into sex, who suffered-
01:05marital rape, who were coerced into sex when they didn't want to be, and were counting on-
01:10this text to be a starting point for ensuring that this ends.
01:15If it's not explicit, the current civil code requires spouses to live together, which is
01:19often legally-
01:20interpreted as an obligation of marital duty.
01:23Last year, the European Court of Human Rights-
01:25ruled against France and in favor of a 69-year-old woman whose husband obtained a divorce.
01:30on grounds that she was at fault for refusing to have sex with him.
01:35Although the change of the civil code would make granting a divorce on such grounds impossible.
01:40The bill adopted by the Assembly must now be examined by the Senate.
01:45For more, we're joined now by Michelle Goodwin, Professor of Constitutional Law and Global
01:50Health Policy at Georgetown University.
01:53Thanks so much for being with us.
01:55On the programme this evening, firstly, people may be surprised to learn
02:00that such an outdated concept still exists, but as we heard in that report
02:05there, surveys finding that more than half of women here in France in any case
02:10reported sex with their partner that was either forced or coerced.
02:15Big of an issue in the modern day is marital rape.
02:20It's a very significant issue and its history goes back centuries.
02:25In fact, there were judges, lawyers, those who authored.
02:30legal case books that promoted this idea that women had
02:35no independent identity apart from their husbands.
02:39This was called coverage.
02:40Coverture.
02:41And within the context of coverture, women were property of their husbands.
02:45They had no independent identity.
02:46They had no independent identity.
02:47They had no independent identity.
02:48And the idea was that a man cannot raise.
02:50And then the woman cannot raise that.
02:51That was a woman who maior incis
02:57tax credit принci бабkel.
02:58And if a woman jumped in and out ofất karma, please.
03:03So I would like to read some of the questions.
03:05I would like to read some of that.
03:08So all.
03:12I think his specific principles that I have
03:14had and been decided, I think,
03:15well, a lot of times are effective.
03:18And certainly if he's a judge,
03:19Divorce has not yet been granted where she's been confined, abducted, raped by.
03:24Her husband and courts have said that's not rape because she was still married to him.
03:29Because the divorce had not come through.
03:31And when it comes to cases like this and also the one that.
03:34Monty referred to that in that report back in 2019 when a man obtained a divorce.
03:39On the grounds that his wife had stopped having sex with him, it was later repealed by the European Court of Human Rights.
03:44But would a judge not be more unlikely to kind of interpret all that?
03:49So you can do all of this with an ounce of common sense rather than prescribing absolute...
03:54to the word of the law.
03:57I wish that
03:59were the case, I've written extensively
04:01about this and I even conclude
04:03the
04:04epilogue, the epilogue to my book
04:06Policing the Womb deals exactly
04:08with these questions.
04:09Because it is absurd.
04:11It reflects
04:13on judges.
04:14Not using their authority
04:16or using common sense
04:18or
04:19even equity within law
04:21to provide a sense of justice
04:23to
04:24provide substantively
04:25justice for women
04:26and it's affected then
04:27not only women who
04:29are married
04:29but this kind of
04:31precedent in law
04:33has also affected
04:34other areas
04:35and aspects of law
04:36with women who
04:37actually happen not
04:38to be married
04:38and
04:39even with girls
04:40so we take this
04:41principle of
04:43marriage
04:44as protecting men
04:45who raped their wives
04:46well this then also
04:47extended to other areas
04:49where fathers who raped
04:50their daughters
04:51we've seen in law
04:53where there
04:54has been considered
04:55spousal immunity
04:56such as when a man
04:57has raped his wife
04:58she cannot
04:58see
04:59sue him
04:59but then there
05:00has grown into law
05:01based on this
05:02family
05:03immunity
05:04where a father
05:05who's raped his daughter
05:06cannot be held liable
05:07and in these cases
05:09they're really quite extreme
05:10where judges have said
05:12well this would be very
05:14disruptive to the household
05:15if girls were able
05:17to sue their fathers
05:18after rape
05:18it's
05:19extraordinary
05:19and yet
05:20here we have this
05:21even in state
05:22supreme court decisions
05:24and michelle
05:25do legal systems
05:26then in themselves
05:27contribute
05:28to the kind
05:29of
05:29shaming
05:30stigmatization
05:31we see of victims
05:32when they do
05:32come forward
05:34you say
05:34that in many cases
05:36legislation
05:37it hasn't only failed to
05:39prevent marital rape
05:40but it's actively
05:41enabled it
05:42in some cases
05:44that's
05:45that's absolutely right
05:47and when we look
05:48at the
05:48history
05:49of women's
05:50exclusion
05:51in society
05:52exclusion
05:53within
05:54law
05:54exclusion
05:55within
05:55legal education
05:56and more
05:57than what we have
05:58our legislation
05:59legislative bodies
06:00over time
06:00that have been
06:01male dominant
06:02that have excluded
06:04women
06:05and where even
06:06when women
06:07have been
06:07included
06:07women have not
06:09necessarily been
06:10appointed
06:10to the key
06:11commissions
06:12or the key
06:13chair positions
06:14where they would
06:15be able to bring
06:16issues like this
06:17to the forefront
06:18and
06:19demand
06:19that they be
06:20addressed
06:20by their
06:20colleagues
06:21so
06:21legislatures
06:23you
06:24judges
06:24have played
06:25a significant
06:26role
06:27in keeping
06:28women
06:28far behind
06:29and even
06:30on that
06:30point
06:31that I
06:31mentioned
06:31about
06:31the
06:32exclusion
06:32of
06:32women
06:33there
06:34is
06:34a supreme
06:34court case
06:35in the united
06:35states
06:36where a woman
06:37petitioned the
06:37court such
06:38that she
06:38could be
06:39become a lawyer
06:39her husband
06:40was already
06:41a lawyer
06:41and she
06:42had graduated
06:42from law
06:43school
06:43and
06:44the united
06:44states
06:44supreme
06:45court
06:45said
06:45well
06:45her place
06:46was not
06:46in law
06:47her place
06:48was in
06:48taking care
06:49of her husband
06:50and her
06:50children
06:51now that's
06:52not why
06:52she petitioned
06:53the court
06:53and
06:54so we
06:54see
06:54over
06:54and
06:55over
06:55again
06:55women
06:56seeking
06:57to
06:57advance
06:57their
06:58interest
06:58with
06:59society
06:59and
07:00by
07:00law
07:01women
07:02being
07:02held
07:02back
07:03so
07:03this
07:03is
07:04an
07:04advancement
07:04what is
07:05taking
07:05shape
07:05now
07:05so
07:06are
07:06women's
07:07rights
07:07then
07:07essentially
07:08valued
07:08less
07:09than
07:09family
07:10unity
07:10women's
07:14rights
07:14certainly
07:15have
07:15been
07:16and
07:16in
07:16fact
07:17when
07:17we
07:17think
07:17about
07:18marriage
07:19mortal
07:19rape
07:19and
07:20this
07:20law
07:20of
07:21fem
07:21covert
07:22covert
07:22we've
07:23seen
07:24that
07:24it's
07:24had
07:24its
07:24implications
07:25not
07:26only
07:26in
07:26the
07:27toleration
07:28of
07:29marital
07:29rape
07:30and
07:30sexual
07:30abuse
07:31in
07:31a
07:31marriage
07:31but
07:32also
07:32with
07:33physical
07:33abuse
07:34abuse
07:34as
07:34well
07:35such
07:35that
07:36because
07:36of
07:37these
07:37philosophies
07:38and
07:39law
07:39women
07:40could
07:40be
07:40sexually
07:41abused
07:41by
07:41their
07:42husbands
07:42and
07:42even
07:42their
07:43boyfriends
07:43and
07:44as
07:45well
07:45victimized
07:46physically
07:46the
07:47result
07:48has
07:48been
07:48courts
07:49saying
07:49that
07:50these
07:50are
07:50private
07:51matters
07:52these
07:52are
07:52private
07:53matters
07:53that
07:53should
07:54be
07:54left
07:54to
07:54the
07:55domain
07:55of
07:55the
07:56home
07:56and
07:57in
07:57these
07:57cases
07:57you
07:58see
07:58what
07:58privacy
07:59means
07:59is
08:00not
08:00women's
08:01privacy
08:01the
08:01privacy
08:02of
08:02their
08:02bodies
08:03to
08:03be
08:03protected
08:03but
08:04instead
08:04privacy
08:05being
08:06used
08:06as
08:06a
08:06proxy
08:07that
08:07has
08:08protected
08:08male
08:09interest
08:10and
08:10it's
08:11time
08:11for
08:11this
08:12all
08:12to
08:13come
08:13to
08:13an
08:13end
08:13and
08:14it's
08:15it's
08:15a
08:15perfect
08:16thing
08:16that
08:16this
08:16is
08:17being
08:17raised
08:17on
08:17an
08:17international
08:18basis
08:18because
08:19across
08:20countries
08:20whether
08:21it's
08:21been
08:21in
08:21France
08:22or
08:22it's
08:22been
08:22in
08:22the
08:22United
08:23States
08:23or
08:24in
08:24the
08:24UK
08:24these
08:25have
08:25been
08:25very
08:25serious
08:26issues
08:27Michelle
08:28how
08:28do
08:28these
08:28kind
08:29of
08:29legacies
08:30legal
08:30cultural
08:31legacies
08:32however
08:32you
08:32want
08:32to
08:32describe
08:33them
08:33how
08:33do
08:33they
08:33continue
08:33then
08:34to
08:34influence
08:35contemporary
08:36attitudes
08:36not
08:37just
08:37when
08:37it
08:37comes
08:38to
08:38decisions
08:38that
08:38are
08:39going
08:39to
08:38are
08:39made
08:39in
08:39the
08:40courts
08:40but
08:40on
08:40a
08:40societal
08:41level
08:43well
08:45what
08:45happens
08:46in
08:46the
08:46court
08:46certainly
08:47does
08:47send
08:48a
08:48signal
08:48to
08:49what
08:49should
08:49happen
08:49in
08:50society
08:50and
08:51when
08:51you
08:51have
08:51enough
08:52court
08:53decisions
08:53that
08:54make
08:54it
08:54very
08:55clear
08:55that
08:56women
08:56are
08:57on
08:57the
08:57outside
08:58of
08:58the
08:58court
08:59looking
08:59in
09:00then
09:00that
09:01bleeds
09:01its
09:01way
09:01into
09:02a
09:02society
09:02it's
09:03something
09:03that
09:03law
09:04enforcement
09:04comes
09:05to
09:05expect
09:05so
09:06that
09:06when
09:06we
09:06look
09:06at
09:06these
09:07histories
09:07of
09:07domestic
09:08violence
09:09physical
09:10violence
09:10and
09:10sexual
09:10violence
09:11within
09:11families
09:12what
09:13you
09:13see
09:13are
09:14patterns
09:14where
09:14even
09:15when
09:15law
09:15enforcement
09:16is
09:16called
09:16law
09:17enforcement
09:17doesn't
09:18necessarily
09:18act
09:19out
09:20what
09:20we
09:20would
09:20expect
09:21which
09:21is
09:21protecting
09:22individuals
09:22who
09:22have
09:23been
09:23victimized
09:23but
09:24instead
09:24what
09:25we
09:25see
09:25historically
09:26are
09:26these
09:26patterns
09:27where
09:27men
09:27would
09:28be
09:28taken
09:28to
09:28a
09:29bar
09:29to
09:29get
09:29drinks
09:30after
09:30a
09:30woman
09:30calls
09:31and
09:31says
09:31I've
09:32been
09:32raped
09:32by
09:32my
09:32husband
09:33or
09:33I've
09:33been
09:33beat
09:33up
09:34by
09:34my
09:34husband
09:35rather
09:35than
09:36law
09:36enforcement
09:36doing
09:37what
09:37it
09:37would
09:37do
09:37if
09:38a
09:38man
09:38beat
09:38up
09:38an
09:38other
09:39man
09:39in
09:39these
09:40instances
09:40beating
09:41up
09:41his
09:41wife
09:41or
09:42raping
09:42his
09:42wife
09:42is
09:43rewarded
09:43by
09:44him
09:44getting
09:45drinks
09:45and
09:45then
09:46of
09:46course
09:46coming
09:46home
09:47what
09:47that
09:47does
09:48is
09:48to
09:48produce
09:48a
09:49chilling
09:49effect
09:50and
09:50by
09:50that
09:50chilling
09:51effect
09:51it
09:51means
09:52that
09:52women
09:52are
09:52going
09:53to
09:53be
09:53much
09:53more
09:54reluctant
09:54to
09:55call
09:55law
09:56enforcement
09:56because
09:57they
09:57realize
09:57law
09:58enforcement
09:58is
09:58will
09:59treat
09:59them
09:59differently
10:00than
10:01it
10:01would
10:01treat
10:02a
10:02man
10:02and
10:03so
10:03it's
10:03created
10:04these
10:04very
10:05significant
10:05gaps
10:06of
10:06justice
10:07within
10:08our
10:08societies
10:09and
10:09it's
10:10meant
10:10that
10:10it
10:11has
10:11silenced
10:11women
10:12when
10:12women
10:12have
10:13tried
10:13to
10:13fend
10:13for
10:14themselves
10:14and
10:15defend
10:15their
10:15interests
10:16and
10:16Michelle
10:16it
10:17also
10:17ties
10:17in
10:18as
10:18well
10:18with
10:18the
10:18notion
10:18of
10:19consent
10:20now
10:20it
10:20was
10:21only
10:21last
10:21year
10:21that
10:21France
10:22actually
10:22adopted
10:22this
10:23as
10:23a
10:23principle
10:24using
10:25it
10:25now
10:26to
10:26define
10:26the
10:27crime
10:27of
10:27rape
10:28as
10:28such
10:28why
10:29do
10:29you
10:29think
10:29it's
10:29taken
10:30France
10:30so
10:30long
10:31to
10:31get
10:31to
10:31this
10:32position
10:32following
10:33in
10:33the
10:33footsteps
10:33of
10:33several
10:34other
10:35European
10:35countries
10:36this
10:38is a
10:38very
10:38good
10:39question
10:39because
10:39it
10:39raises
10:40issues
10:40with
10:41regard
10:41to
10:41women's
10:42credibility
10:42and
10:43women's
10:43credibility
10:43within
10:44law
10:44and
10:44women's
10:45stature
10:45within
10:45law
10:46if
10:47a
10:47woman
10:47has
10:47been
10:47reduced
10:48to
10:48the
10:49status
10:49of
10:49mere
10:49property
10:50or
10:50significant
10:51property
10:51then
10:52you're
10:52not
10:52thinking
10:53about
10:53the
10:54human
10:54rights
10:54the
10:55human
10:55dignity
10:55the
10:56integrity
10:56of
10:57this
10:57entity
10:58which
10:58is
10:58now
10:59been
10:59reduced
10:59to
10:59the
11:00status
11:00of
11:00property
11:01and
11:01if
11:01you've
11:01been
11:02reduced
11:02to
11:02the
11:02status
11:03of
11:03property
11:03being
11:04perceived
11:04as
11:05having
11:05no
11:05dignity
11:06within
11:06law
11:07then
11:07it
11:07means
11:07that
11:08you're
11:08almost
11:08invisible
11:09it
11:10means
11:10that
11:10you
11:11really
11:11don't
11:12have
11:12a
11:13voice
11:13that
11:13the
11:13state
11:14is
11:14supposed
11:14to
11:14respect
11:15and
11:15pay
11:15attention
11:16to
11:16which
11:17is
11:17why
11:17we
11:17can
11:17see
11:17it
11:18is
11:18taking
11:18so
11:18long
11:19to
11:19unpack
11:20these
11:21questions
11:21with
11:21regard
11:22to
11:22consent
11:23can
11:23you
11:23property
11:24consent
11:25now
11:26if
11:27you
11:27think
11:27about
11:28an
11:28anatomy
11:28object
11:29as
11:29your
11:29property
11:30your
11:30car
11:30your
11:31book
11:32your
11:32laptop
11:32well
11:33these
11:34are
11:34inanimate
11:35objects
11:36these
11:36are
11:36objects
11:37that
11:37cannot
11:37speak
11:38and
11:38so
11:38it
11:38tells
11:39us
11:39so
11:39much
11:40about
11:40the
11:41depravity
11:42baked
11:42into
11:42law
11:43for
11:43so
11:43so
11:44long
11:44that
11:45women
11:45would
11:45be
11:46considered
11:46the
11:47status
11:47of
11:47property
11:48so
11:48such
11:48that
11:49one
11:49does
11:49not
11:49actually
11:50have
11:50to
11:50pay
11:50attention
11:51to
11:51what
11:52they
11:52think
11:52what
11:53they
11:53feel
11:53or
11:54what
11:55they
11:55have
11:55experienced
11:56which
11:56then
11:56also
11:57means
11:57that
11:57consent
11:58is
11:58meaningless
11:59but
11:59this
12:00also
12:00says
12:00a
12:01lot
12:01about
12:01not
12:01trusting
12:02women
12:02and
12:03not
12:03trusting
12:03women's
12:04voices
12:04that
12:05even
12:05if
12:05the
12:06scars
12:06of
12:07battle
12:08intimate
12:09partner
12:09battle
12:10is
12:10on
12:11her
12:11face
12:11and
12:12written
12:12on
12:12her
12:12body
12:13law
12:14has
12:14been
12:14very
12:14slow
12:15clearly
12:16centuries
12:17long
12:17slow
12:18and
12:18recognizing
12:19that
12:20that
12:20should
12:20be
12:20remedied
12:21and
12:21that
12:21it
12:21should
12:22be
12:22punishable
12:23when
12:23that
12:23happens
12:24to
12:24a
12:24woman
12:25but
12:25we've
12:25been
12:25centuries
12:26in
12:26the
12:26making
12:26of
12:27getting
12:27us
12:27there
12:28And I
12:28can
12:29tell
12:29you
12:29there
12:29are
12:29cases
12:30that
12:30I
12:30read
12:30daily
12:31from
12:31around
12:31the
12:32world
12:32where
12:32judges
12:33are
12:33sent
12:33simply
12:33not
12:34doing
12:34the
12:34jobs
12:35that
12:35people
12:35would
12:36expect
12:36them
12:36to
12:37do
12:37Michelle
12:38we'll
12:38have
12:38to
12:38leave
12:38it
12:39there
12:39for
12:39now
12:39thanks
12:40so
12:40much
12:40for
12:40being
12:40with
12:40us
12:41on
12:41the
12:41program
12:42very
12:42enlightening
12:43conversation
12:43Michelle
12:44Goodwin
12:44Professor
12:45of
12:45Constitutional
12:46Law
12:46and
12:46Global
12:46Health
12:47Policy
12:47at
12:47Georgetown
12:48University
12:48Thanks
12:49so
12:49much
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