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00:00I'm Steve Keogh.
00:05A former Scotland Yard murder detective inspector.
00:08I'm going to take you.
00:10Deep inside murder investigations.
00:13Opening my contacts.
00:15Book for the first time.
00:17To reveal the secrets of what it really takes.
00:20To be a murder detective.
00:22On the front line.
00:23Exposing how we solve the most.
00:25It's heinous of crimes.
00:30Welcome to secrets of a murder detective.
00:35Welcome to secrets of a murder detective.
00:40The double murder of Wendy Nell.
00:45Caroline Pierce in 1987.
00:46Was one of Kent's most challenging cases.
00:49I'm going through.
00:50Meeting a detective from the case.
00:51To reveal what really happened.
00:53The pressures.
00:54The setbacks.
00:55And the methods in the investigation.
00:56That brought the killer to justice.
00:58My name is Andrea Rich.
01:00I'm a retired detective sergeant.
01:02And I ran the cold case investigation team.
01:05With Kent police major crime team.
01:07From 2008 to 2019.
01:10So operation Greenfinch was the operational name given to the murder.
01:15The murders of Wendy Nell and Caroline Pierce.
01:17Which occurred in 1987.
01:20In Tunbridge Wells.
01:21It was unsolved for 33 years.
01:25Andrea.
01:25Lovely to meet you.
01:26Pleased to meet you Steve.
01:27Can you tell me when you first became aware.
01:32Of this case.
01:33And what details you were told about it.
01:35I knew of the case before 90.
01:37The murder of the murder of the murder of the murder.
01:41case that was always brought up, you know, we really need to resolve this. Yeah, Wendy Nell was the first.
01:46murder. The call came in in the morning.
01:51of the 23rd of June, 1987, and that call was made.
01:56by her boyfriend. She'd recently been.
02:01divorced and come back to live on Guildford Road. She was very independent.
02:06She worked at SuperSnaps as a manageress.
02:11She wanted children. She had a boyfriend called Ian Platt.
02:16And she had family. She had mum and dad.
02:21And siblings. And an independent, fun-loving girl.
02:26Wendy left SuperSnaps the night before her.
02:31murder at about six o'clock. Ian Platt dropped her off on his motorbike at the front door.
02:36Then he'd turn around in his motorbike and she would wave from the front door.
02:41to say, I'm in and I'm okay. Then that would have been around about.
02:4611 o'clock.
02:51The next day was reported missing because Wendy hadn't turned up to work.
02:56the next day was reported missing.
02:57The next day was her SuperSnaps photography.
02:58And she was a fastidious girl for time.
03:01She was a fastidious girl for time management.
03:02But it was unusual not for her to be at work.
03:06So Ian Platt called the police because Wendy's mum...
03:11..had called him to say she hadn't turned up.
03:16And what had happened was Ian had knocked on the front door.
03:21of Guilford Road where Wendy lived.
03:24And he couldn't get any answer.
03:26And what he did was he went round the back of the premises.
03:30And he...
03:31He knew that there was an insecure window.
03:34And when he got in there, he was...
03:36He was faced with finding Wendy.
03:38Faced down.
03:39Bludgeon.
03:40Bludgeon.
03:41Bludgeon.
03:42To death.
03:43Blood force injury.
03:44To the head.
03:45Blood all over her bed.
03:46Bludgeon.
03:47Bludgeon.
03:48Unimaginable, really.
03:49And shocking.
03:51For him.
03:52For him.
03:53As a boyfriend.
03:54And...
03:55He called the police.
03:56And there was...
03:56He alerted the police.
03:57Bludgeon.
03:58Bludgeon.
03:59Bludgeon.
04:00Bludgeon.
04:01So can you describe the kind of actions that would be taking place now for those in this...
04:06initial responders here?
04:07The initial response would have been uniformed officers from the local...
04:11of Tunbridge Wells, who would have immediately responded and gone to the scene.
04:16They would have been on the radio asking for CID.
04:21Involvement.
04:22And then...
04:23Because of the nature of the kind of crime that...
04:26would have eventually been escalated to a major crime team.
04:31The next priority would have been preservation of the sea.
04:36So we would have to cordon that off.
04:38Make sure everybody was out of the...
04:41flat.
04:42And that the CSIs could go in and preserve evidence in...
04:46inside.
04:47There would have been some differences, wouldn't there, between what the crime...
04:51scene officers would do now, than what they would have done back in 1987.
04:56The main difference between then and now is that we are aware of the sensitivities of DNA.
05:01Back then, they would have been more concerned with fingerprints at the sea.
05:06In 1987, you have to remember that most people within the inquiries...
05:11systems at that point could only be eliminated through blood and fingerprints.
05:16evidence.
05:17The boyfriend went to the flat, went through...
05:21the back window.
05:22Yeah.
05:23Because he knew he could access the back window.
05:25He became an...
05:26immediate suspect for all of the right reasons to find out exactly what was the pattern.
05:31of when he saw her, what he did, where did he climb in to find her.
05:36We could rule him out with blood in the days of 1987, but it would take...
05:41a lot longer to fully eliminate him.
05:44And yeah, I can't imagine...
05:46living with that around his head, you know, all of that time.
05:56So, in 1987, what you need to...
06:01...understand is that at that time when Wendy was murdered...
06:05...there were...
06:06...there were no mobile phones, there were no drones...
06:09...very basic computers.
06:11You know, the forensic technology was very much in its infancy.
06:16There was no DNA database, so if someone...
06:21...one bled at a scene, the CSIs would recover the blood...
06:24...but that would purely be...
06:26...for grouping, so blood grouping...
06:28...whether they are A positive, A negative...
06:31...be positive.
06:32My name is Sarah Thurkle...
06:34...and I've been a...
06:36...crim scene investigator and crime scene manager...
06:38...for over 25 years.
06:40You could detect...
06:41...what blood group somebody was...
06:43...but there might be two and a half thousand people.
06:46...in your village that had the same blood group as you.
06:48So it was not very discriminatory.
06:51What sort of work would the CSI officers have been...
06:56...doing at the scene?
06:57The initial thing that they would have done, Steve...
06:59...is the photographing of this...
07:01...the scene and the body in situ...
07:03...so that they had everything in place clearly marked.
07:06They'd be looking for fingerprints...
07:08...footmarks...
07:09...and they'd be...
07:11...conducting something called tapings.
07:12Fibre taping means effectively...
07:14...looking on an item of clothing.
07:16...or looking on a...
07:18...on a point of entry...
07:19...or somewhere...
07:20...for fibres.
07:21And to recover those fibres...
07:22...you would use small bits of tape...
07:24...which is what we still use now.
07:25So...
07:26...a bit like the sellotape...
07:28...and they would be...
07:29...putting that over clothing...
07:30...and relevant...
07:31...places to pick up...
07:33...any skin...
07:35...any...
07:36...the saliva...
07:37...that kind of thing.
07:38There were items in the scene...
07:40...that...
07:41...were pivotal...
07:42...for the inquiry...
07:43...and the duvet...
07:44...that was covering Wendy...
07:45...where she...
07:46...be murdered.
07:47And...
07:48...on that duvet...
07:49...semen...
07:50...was recovered.
07:51And that would have been...
07:52...recovered and preserved.
07:54What sort of information...
07:55...came back?
07:56...from the post-mortem...
07:57...for Wendy.
07:58The information...
07:59...that came back...
08:00...was that she'd suffered...
08:01...blunt force trauma...
08:02...to the head.
08:03She'd been...
08:04...asphyxiated.
08:05She'd been...
08:06...strangled.
08:07She'd been...
08:08...sexually assaulted.
08:09Raped.
08:10They would have been...
08:11...taking...
08:12...swabs of her body...
08:13...in order for us...
08:14...to try and find out...
08:15...who the killer was.
08:16In terms of...
08:17...a violent...
08:18...murder...
08:19...in someone's home...
08:20...when...
08:21...can you add in...
08:22...that sexual element...
08:23...to it too...
08:24...that would have been...
08:25...really concerning...
08:26...for the investigators...
08:27...at the time.
08:28and it became more urgent to trying to find the killer.
08:34When officers attended the scene where Wendy had murdered,
08:37they were...
08:38...items that we established were missing.
08:42She was an avid...
08:43...the diary writer, and the diary was missing.
08:47She had two keys on a key.
08:48They were missing, so they became key items that we were looking for.
08:53The CSI officers at the time found evidence of a bloodied...
08:58...footprint on Wendy's blouse, on the cuff of her blouse, which...
09:03...and consequently, they eventually were able to track down and formally...
09:08...identify that trainer mark as being a very specific trainer, a sports trainer.
09:13...to track Clark's trainer footprint.
09:18The press...
09:18...preservation of material would have been boxed and audited.
09:24...and packed away.
09:25The good thing with the police force back in 1986...
09:28...as now is that they're very good at storing evidence for future.
09:33...um, intelligence.
09:35We have to store evidence for a period of time.
09:38Particularly in murder investigations, evidence should be stored for at least 30 years.
09:43Whether they're...
09:43...other someone's been convicted of the crime or not.
09:45Any blood or semen will be kept in the fridge or...
09:48...we've kept frozen.
09:50And evidence can be stored for a long period of time by police.
09:53...forces.
09:56When the CID officers and...
09:58...CSI's attended the scene and they very quickly found out that...
10:03...the prowler had been seen in the area just to the rear of Wendy's flat.
10:08...and someone had knocked on the door of a 19-year-old...
10:13...female and said to her, you should keep your windows closed.
10:18Now that was a really random comment from somebody. She didn't know this.
10:23...man. But clearly she had a lucky escape in my opinion.
10:28...because he, he, the offender, the killer, could have been one in the same...
10:33...man. And they set about getting what we called in the old...
10:38...and he's doing an e-fit of what that man looked like.
10:43Police don't solve murders on their own. They need the help of the public.
10:46What sort of things did the...
10:48...investigating team do back then for that?
10:51Back then, the inquiry team utilised...
10:53...the national Crimewatch programme. And they utilised the services of Crimewatch to...
10:58...explain what had happened to Wendy and that they were appealing for witnesses to...
11:03...an e-fit that they had of somebody acting suspiciously.
11:08...but something that would have been relevant and in the mind...
11:13...of the investigators was that this murder would have taken not...
11:18...long after the crimes of the Yorkshire Ripper.
11:21Yeah, absolutely. They obviously be looking...
11:23...at people who'd committed similar crimes in the area.
11:28There were 17 suspects that we were looking at and there were...
11:33...plenty of other inquiries going on, like inquiries into the shoe print.
11:38But as time was going by, we still didn't have an offender.
11:43I have no doubt.
11:48I have no doubt that Kemp Police would have put a huge amount of resources into solving this.
11:53What we also have to consider is that this investigation came about six years after...
11:58...the Biford report, which looked at the deficiencies in the investigation...
12:03...to the Yorkshire Ripper.
12:04I have no doubt that the lessons learned from that report would have been a...
12:08...applied to this investigation.
12:13All our intelligence systems now are on a computer.
12:18Back then, it was on paper.
12:20It would have been like a card index system of...
12:23...known burglars, known sex offenders, but it would have been written down and hard...
12:28...copies of paperwork.
12:30So it was a much more difficult task, really.
12:33To kind of wade through all of that, to get to the nuts and bolts of who...
12:38...were the persons of interest.
12:39They've got a murder that hasn't been solved.
12:43Involving a sexual predator.
12:45And now they've got a second one that looks like...
12:48...it may be linked to the fur.
12:50So tell me about that.
12:52On the 25th...
12:53...of November 1987, so five months after the murder of Wendy Nell.
12:58In Tunbridge Wells, a call came in about a missing young girl.
13:03...called Caroline, who was 20 years of age.
13:06She lived in a ground floor.
13:08She lived in a small flat.
13:09It was about a mile away from Wendy Nell's home address.
13:13She lived in Guildford Road, and she'd not been seen since the night before.
13:18Her friends had tried to contact her, and she'd left.
13:23A place called Buster Browns, where she was the manageress, and worked.
13:27And she'd been socialising.
13:28...with friends, and had a taxi home.
13:32Caroline lived...
13:33...with alone in a bedsit in Tunbridge Wells.
13:38...at the end of her cul-de-sac, and she was a very popular person.
13:42Had lots of friends.
13:43My name's David Withers.
13:47I joined Kemp Police in...
13:48...in 1980, as a PC, and then worked my way through the ranks.
13:52I was a detective inspector...
13:53...in 2002, and I joined the Major Crime Department, where I was...
13:58..and I joined the Major Crime Department, where I was...
13:58...a senior investigating officer investigating crime, such as rape, and...
14:03...and I joined the Major Crime Department.
14:04Caroline was last seen after she'd been dropped off by a taxi outside her flat.
14:08And she wasn't seen again until she was found in a water-filled ditch.
14:13On the 15th of December of 1987, at Romney Mast, from 40 miles away.
14:18...from her flat.
14:23Caroline was found by a farm worker.
14:28She was naked, other than a pair of tights that were still on her body.
14:33And she'd suffered a number of injuries.
14:38And she was naked, and she was naked.
14:40And she was naked.
14:41And she was naked.
14:42How would this crime scene?
14:43How would this crime scene...
14:43...have been dealt with?
14:44Different crime scene to that of Wendy, because we're in the outdoor...
14:48Carbon elements.
14:49Partially submerged in water.
14:52Naked bodies.
14:53There was no body decomposing.
14:55There was no containment.
14:57The bodies found in the summer...
14:58for months, they tend to decompose quite quickly.
15:01In December, the weather is cold.
15:03So, therefore, the body is not likely to decompose as quickly.
15:08The issues, though, in December
15:10is that the daylight hours are really short.
15:13The weather tends to be cold and wet,
15:15so any trace evidence might well have...
15:18disappeared from that crime scene.
15:20Any footprints that might have been there
15:22probably aren't there anymore.
15:23And also, examining the body outside in a ditch,
15:26you might have...
15:28evidence in that scene
15:29that's got nothing to do with that missing person.
15:33It's also potentially been exposed to animal activity.
15:38The evidence recovery for that
15:40involved hundreds of officers
15:41doing things like finger-trip searching.
15:43to try and trace for any discarded, you know, elements.
15:48like cigarettes or pieces of paper
15:50or any trace of an offender
15:51as to how did that...
15:53body get there?
15:54How would they know about that place?
15:56You know, what relevance would that have had?
15:58to a killer and that kind of thing.
16:00Looking at how Caroline went...
16:03what was the timeline that they were able to establish?
16:06So, the taxi driver...
16:08was just dropping her off and leaving.
16:10And that was at midnight on the 24th of November.
16:13Was there ever any evidence that she had got into her home
16:16or would the abduction of...
16:18taking place outside?
16:19A lot of the neighbours were reporting the fact
16:21that they heard screams.
16:23..shortly after that time.
16:26And it's quite clear.
16:28to me and the investigators on my team
16:31that because of...
16:33had the cemetery been at the side of the premises,
16:36he must have been lying in wait.
16:38and specifically targeting her in a way.
16:44And Caroline had keys to a house
16:47with a bust of...
16:48Brown's fob on it.
16:49And that was never recovered.
16:50Did the pathologists attend the scene?
16:53through the pathology and at the mortuary
16:55that she suffered asphyxiation...
16:58the striking similarities of the blunt force trauma
17:01to the head and...
17:03strangulation...
17:04and the sexual activity.
17:06Caroline's pubic hair was...
17:08shaved.
17:10But not in a careful way.
17:13in a manic kind of shaving.
17:15That was just so unusual.
17:18um...
17:19you know,
17:20clearly,
17:21we're dealing with some...
17:23depravity of a male
17:25that has inflicted those injuries.
17:28and...
17:30it's hard...
17:31as a human being
17:32to try and get into...
17:33inside the head
17:34of...
17:35the killer of both of those girls.
17:37and the trauma...
17:38you know,
17:39of what they suffered.
17:43in a town like Tunbridge Wells
17:45to have two offences...
17:47in a town like Tunbridge Wells
17:48to have two offenses...
17:48with so many similarities, but of course you have to look at differences as well.
17:53And the most significant difference was the fact that Wendy Nell was left having been
17:58back.
17:58And the most significant difference was the fact that Wendy Nell was left in her flat,
18:03whereas Caroline's body was removed.
18:03She had not discovered for some time.
18:08The police would have been looking at people who lived in and around the area.
18:13Anyone who Caroline had had any issues with at her place of work.
18:18Looking at old boyfriends, looking at creeper burglars, anyone who had intelligence or
18:23links to the area of committing similar crimes.
18:28There were a number of names came into the frame at the beginning of the investigation.
18:33In the 1980s, some of those were...
18:38They had their blood taken, and there was an analysis done between...
18:43that blood and the forensic samples that were found, and they were ruled out that way.
18:47There was also a crime...
18:48in between the two cases, between when...
18:53Wendy was killed, and after Caroline had gone missing, but before her...
18:58her body was found of a rape in Tunbridge Wells.
19:03One of the complexities for the detectives and the inquiry team are dealing...
19:08with the Wendy Nell and Caroline Pierce murders was a young female single mother.
19:13one of them was also raped and was subject of a burglary.
19:18and assaulted in her home, which was a ground floor bedsit.
19:23around the corner to Wendy Nell.
19:25His name was Stuart Durkin.
19:28What did the investigating officers know about Stuart?
19:33Stuart Durkin back then?
19:34Stuart Durkin was a known burglar, creeper.
19:38as he was named in Tunbridge Wells at the time.
19:41He'd been convicted in Sweden.
19:43some time before, for manslaughter and rape.
19:47Did they have...
19:48any evidence that could link him to Wendy's murder?
19:50We didn't have DNA in those days, so we just had blood...
19:53and, you know, witness evidence and fingerprint evidence and that kind of...
19:58thing, but the inquiry team could just never link him to the crime.
20:03One of the major things that concerned me was that you had an offender.
20:08who had apparently killed two ladies within six months...
20:13of each other in a brutal fashion and then appeared not.
20:18to have killed again.
20:19It seemed really strange to me, as an SAO, that you've got two of the most...
20:23serious offences happening within a relatively short space of time.
20:28and then nothing, and we didn't know why.
20:33A challenge for the Kent office...
20:38over the course of the investigation into Wendy and Caroline's murder.
20:43would have been keeping up the hope of...
20:48her families ensuring that they know that they've not given up on them.
20:53that they can do everything they can to find their killer.
20:58because he may have died.
20:59he may have left the country.
21:01so balancing that hope without...
21:03giving them false hope would have been a real challenge for these officers.
21:08myself and one of my team came with me to...
21:13go and visit Wendy's mum and dad.
21:16they were always receptive.
21:18to having us over for a cup of tea.
21:20and they wanted to know that we were...
21:23still interested, still looking for the killer of their daughter.
21:26still looking for the killer of their daughter.
21:27still looking for the killer of their daughter.
21:28and we used to sit down and talk about Wendy as if she was still there.
21:33and Wendy's mum in particular used to talk about the fact that she would...
21:38miss Wendy's picture at night when she went to bed.
21:41Wendy's dad would talk to...
21:43to me about the fact that his marriage ended effectively when Wendy died because...
21:48things were never the same at home.
21:50they slept in separate beds.
21:52and he went on to...
21:53TV to say this because he was trying to explain...
21:56that when your daughter is killed and when you...
21:58you have to identify your daughter who's been murdered in such a savage way.
22:03you never recover.
22:06and that was the same for...
22:08Caroline's mum and stepdad.
22:10Caroline's mum in particular.
22:12she cannot...
22:13and see...
22:14her daughter that was decomposed and left...
22:17to rot.
22:18effectively in a ditch.
22:20naked all by her tights.
22:22and...
22:23she can't erase that.
22:24they relive that every day.
22:26they relive that every day.
22:28they were Eggد safegu miserably.
22:29and she can't...
22:31yes!
22:32she can't do it at all.
22:33so...
22:35as the DS between 2008 until I retired.
22:40I retired in 2019 and because it was apparent
22:45that we had DNA from the crime scene stain of Wendy Nell.
22:50We decided that we needed to try and get some evidence
22:53from a forensic nature.
22:55To link both crimes properly, forensically and formally.
23:00As being the offender responsible for both of those murders.
23:05So my team and I then had to...
23:10retrieve all the documentation, the hard copies,
23:13the old computers where the...
23:15information was held and set about investigating it from the start.
23:20The evidence that we had from the 1990s...
23:25that was obviously preserved appropriately and was...
23:30future proofed.
23:31That proved invaluable coming into the 2000...
23:35the 2010s.
23:36In 1987, the CSIs at the time...
23:40we were recovering evidence from the murder scenes.
23:43We could never have comprehended.
23:45what they actually picked up, the importance of...
23:48you know, the skin, the semen...
23:50saliva and all that DNA mix.
23:54In 1990...
23:55In 1995, the DNA database came into existence...
23:58and all known offenders...
24:00who were arrested, had their DNA taken and placed on a database...
24:03was a massive break...
24:05who broke through on the scientific side of crime scene investigation.
24:08We were able to...
24:10load onto the database...
24:12a crime scene saying...
24:14from the duvet.
24:15and also from a towel that was under her head.
24:19Unfortunately...
24:20when that was loaded onto the national DNA database...
24:23no killer was found.
24:25There was no direct hit to anybody.
24:29And...
24:30Andrea...
24:31you had a fantastic career...
24:32which culminated in...
24:33the case we've been...
24:34speaking about...
24:35the last day...
24:36and you finished your career...
24:37investigating murders.
24:38Tell me about your...
24:39Tell me about your...
24:40journey there...
24:41in your career.
24:42Yeah, I joined the police in...
24:431989...
24:44in...
24:45West Mercia Police...
24:46in Hereford...
24:47where I started my career...
24:49and...
24:50I was fortunate really...
24:51because...
24:52I had an opportunity to...
24:53very quickly...
24:55be involved...
24:56in...
24:57detective crimes...
24:58and I think I always had this...
24:59thing about...
25:01wanting to do the right thing...
25:02integrity...
25:03was important to me...
25:04and...
25:05moral compass...
25:06and...
25:07right from wrong...
25:08so I became...
25:09er...
25:10what...
25:10I was called...
25:11a career detective...
25:12and...
25:13for me...
25:14ending up...
25:15on coke...
25:15case...
25:16that was the...
25:17highlight of my career...
25:18it was a privilege...
25:19to be able to tell...
25:20somebody's story...
25:20and...
25:21to find out...
25:22what happened...
25:23to their loved ones...
25:24it...
25:25it was challenging...
25:26and...
25:27especially in the early days...
25:28being...
25:29you know...
25:30one of...
25:30maybe two women...
25:31on a shift...
25:32of about 15 men...
25:33and the things...
25:34that we had to put up...
25:35with...
25:36the pranks...
25:37the name calling...
25:38and I always felt...
25:39that we always had to do better...
25:40luckily...
25:41you know...
25:42towards the end of my career...
25:43and especially on major crime...
25:44I would say...
25:45there was an equal amount...
25:46of women...
25:47and men...
25:48on the team...
25:49and that actually...
25:50brings...
25:50different strengths...
25:51and viewpoints...
25:52and I think...
25:53that's really important...
25:55for Andrea...
25:58and her team...
25:59it...
26:00would have been...
26:01immensely frustrating...
26:02to have a profile...
26:03of the killer...
26:04but no matter...
26:05match...
26:06on the DNA database...
26:07they were so close...
26:09and yet...
26:10so far...
26:11I've been there...
26:12in that situation...
26:13and you find yourself...
26:14doing...
26:15mental gymnastics...
26:16to try and think...
26:17of a way...
26:18in which you can...
26:19obtain the profile...
26:20you had probably...
26:21the best lead...
26:22that you could have...
26:23you had the killer's DNA...
26:25but...
26:26they weren't on...
26:27the DNA database...
26:28because they hadn't...
26:29been arrested...
26:30yeah...
26:30what work went on...
26:32to try and identify...
26:33who that person was...
26:35so in the original investigation...
26:37they did a lot of...
26:38mass screen swabbing...
26:39of individuals...
26:40through kind of...
26:41blood...
26:42and eliminations...
26:43and all of that...
26:44kind of thing...
26:45and because of...
26:45DNA had moved on...
26:46in the world...
26:47we were able to...
26:48eliminate a lot...
26:49of those people...
26:50categorically...
26:51from the inquiry...
26:52and that was a big part...
26:53of the inquiry...
26:54but for me...
26:55from...
26:55the time of...
26:56about...
26:572004...
26:58one of the first...
26:59for me...
27:00bacterial DNA results...
27:01that occurred in the UK...
27:02when you...
27:03are...
27:04conceived...
27:05um...
27:06you are...
27:07effectively...
27:08half of your...
27:09mother's DNA...
27:10and...
27:10half of your...
27:11father's DNA...
27:12so effectively...
27:13if your father...
27:14is on the DNA...
27:15database...
27:16but you're not...
27:17on the DNA...
27:18database...
27:19the police...
27:20can do familiar...
27:20checks...
27:21so if you've got...
27:22a relative...
27:23that's on the DNA...
27:24database...
27:25they're...
27:25the DNA...
27:26is gonna be...
27:27similar to yours...
27:28clearly...
27:29if you search...
27:30the million people...
27:31on the database...
27:30it's gonna be...
27:31quite a lengthy task...
27:32so...
27:33if a...
27:34familial DNA...
27:35search...
27:35is conducted...
27:36they try to...
27:37narrow down criteria...
27:38normally...
27:39it would then...
27:40come up with...
27:41a list of...
27:42potential...
27:43offenders...
27:44or potential...
27:45familial links...
27:46and then...
27:47it's down to...
27:48the detectives...
27:49to...
27:50use that...
27:50intelligence...
27:51to then...
27:52do further...
27:53research on...
27:54and...
27:55this isn't an easy...
27:55process...
27:56because you've got...
27:57to look at...
27:58geography...
27:59where people...
28:00were swabbed...
28:00ethnicity...
28:01the...
28:02right age group...
28:03and that kind of thing...
28:04but it also...
28:05was...
28:06encumbered on...
28:07us as...
28:08investigators...
28:09involved in the case...
28:10of actually...
28:11visiting people...
28:12who had...
28:13similar DNA...
28:14and trying to...
28:15eliminate them...
28:16from our...
28:17inquiries...
28:18and...
28:19eventually...
28:20in...
28:212019...
28:22through...
28:23more forensic work...
28:25on the degraded...
28:26material...
28:27of Caroline Pierce...
28:28and...
28:29for the first time...
28:30we were able to...
28:32get a forensic link...
28:33of seamen...
28:34for the sea...
28:35of...
28:36Wendy Nell...
28:37and Caroline Pierce...
28:40so now...
28:41you're in no doubt...
28:42whatsoever...
28:43that this was...
28:44a link murder...
28:45and you...
28:45you're talking about...
28:46a serial killer...
28:47absolutely...
28:48you came onto this team...
28:49in 2008...
28:502019...
28:51because you've...
28:52done your...
28:5330 years...
28:54you're about to retire...
28:55shortly before you retired...
28:57you got an answer...
28:59to...
29:00something...
29:01you'd set out...
29:0211 years before...
29:03to answer...
29:04and that is...
29:05that you could...
29:05normally link...
29:06Caroline...
29:07and Wendy's murder...
29:08yeah...
29:09how did that make you...
29:10feel...
29:11immensely proud...
29:12of the work...
29:13that we did...
29:15to...
29:16to...
29:19to...
29:20take a moment...
29:22sorry...
29:23I didn't mean...
29:24to drop that on you...
29:25well no...
29:26but...
29:27you know...
29:25that's what he meant...
29:26we used the words...
29:27kind of things like...
29:28golden nuggets...
29:29and things like...
29:30that in the police...
29:31but...
29:32I just...
29:33that was an immensely...
29:34proud moment...
29:35because...
29:35my small team...
29:36there was five of us...
29:37and me...
29:38and we'd all...
29:39worked on that...
29:40together...
29:41between all of those years...
29:42and we had the pictures...
29:43of the wall...
29:44on the...
29:45of Wendy...
29:46and Caroline...
29:47so that we...
29:48we never forgot...
29:49who we were investigating...
29:50and what our...
29:50our aim was...
29:51it was one of the...
29:52if not the...
29:54major...
29:55undetected case...
29:56in the county...
29:57we knew that there...
29:58were forensic...
29:59opportunities...
30:00because we knew that...
30:01there was a full DNA...
30:02but we needed to find out...
30:03who that was...
30:05further DNA profiling...
30:07was conducted...
30:08um...
30:09and these sperms...
30:10uh...
30:11revealed...
30:12a...
30:13really good DNA profile...
30:14that was loaded onto...
30:15the...
30:15the DNA database...
30:16and they conducted...
30:17the familial...
30:18uh...
30:19searching...
30:20of this DNA...
30:20profile...
30:21amazingly...
30:22they were able to...
30:23find a familial...
30:24link...
30:25to the DNA profile...
30:26we were then able to...
30:28approach...
30:29those individuals...
30:30and say to them...
30:31we know you're not...
30:32the offender...
30:33what's your family tree?
30:35to see...
30:36to see if we can identify...
30:37if it may have been...
30:38a father-son...
30:39brother...
30:40that could have...
30:41uh...
30:42committed a crime.
30:45one of the persons...
30:48on...
30:49the list of...
30:50nine...
30:50twenty...
30:51that can please...
30:52had the time...
30:53from the familiar list...
30:54and one of those...
30:55persons...
30:56was visited...
30:57by a member of the...
30:58cold case investigation team.
31:00and...
31:01they started to...
31:02speak to that individual...
31:04and...
31:05ask him...
31:06about any links...
31:07that he may have had...
31:08to Tunbridge Wells...
31:09or...
31:10questions...
31:11around his lifestyle...
31:12etc...
31:13and it became...
31:14apparent...
31:15that...
31:16um...
31:17one of the questions...
31:18that was always asked...
31:19with familial DNA...
31:20is...
31:21do you have any siblings...
31:22any brothers...
31:23etc...
31:24and he said...
31:25that he had...
31:25a brother...
31:26who had spent...
31:27some time...
31:28and lived...
31:29in Tunbridge Wells.
31:30and...
31:31when that...
31:33familial DNA...
31:34sample...
31:35was then...
31:36taken...
31:37and...
31:38the person...
31:39was identified...
31:40as David Fuller...
31:41who was his brother.
31:43living in Tunbridge Wells.
31:48having had...
31:50David Fuller's name...
31:51put into their...
31:52system...
31:53they did some research...
31:54they knew...
31:55that he previously lived...
31:56somewhere close to...
31:57Gil...
31:58in Tunbridge Wells...
31:59and...
32:00they also knew...
32:01that...
32:02in...
32:03in the...
32:041970s...
32:05he had some...
32:06convictions...
32:07for breaking into...
32:08people's houses...
32:09at night...
32:10which...
32:11could...
32:12appear...
32:13to be a similarity...
32:14to what we were...
32:15looking at...
32:16in this case.
32:18a lot...
32:21that's...
32:22good...
32:23Good morning. David, please.
32:26I don't need to come in and speak to you.
32:28Are we here alone?
32:31No, no, absolutely.
32:33Let's just get up there to work.
32:39David, if you listen to what I'm going to say.
32:40Yes.
32:43We're from Kent Police and we're investigating the murders of Wendy.
32:48Daniel and Caroline Pierce in 1987.
32:52Okay?
32:521987.
32:53As part of that investigation, you've been linked as a suspect by...
32:58...graphically and forensically.
33:00Okay?
33:00If you listen to what my colleague's going to say to you.
33:02All right, David.
33:03You're under arrest on suspicion of the murders of Wendy Nell and Caroline Pierce.
33:08...in 1987.
33:09Do you understand?
33:11Yeah.
33:11You do not have to say anything, but it may help me defend.
33:13If you do not mention, when questioned, something which you're later on in court.
33:17Anything you do say.
33:18...may be given in evidence.
33:20You are being arrested.
33:21Yeah.
33:22So secure and preserve evidence.
33:23...by means of questioning.
33:26So we can conduct searches.
33:27So for...
33:28Caroline's examples can be attained and to prevent your disappearance.
33:31Do you understand?
33:32Yeah.
33:32Yeah.
33:33The thing about David Fuller is when you look at it in relation to...
33:38...Wendy and Caroline, the inquiry team were able to find out.
33:43When they searched his home, that he'd...
33:48...visited Supersnaps, the place where Wendy had worked.
33:51He'd also been to Buster Brown.
33:53...the place that Caroline had worked at.
33:56He had, in fact...
33:58...lived in the same road as Wendy Nell in Guildford Road in Tunbridge Wells.
34:03So this is the man who knew Tunbridge Wells, he knew the roads, he knew...
34:08...and clearly had observed people.
34:12This is some...
34:13...someone who worked originally in the Kent and Sussex Hospital.
34:17At the top of Tunbridge Wells near Mount Ephraim, before the new Pembury Hospital.
34:22And he worked as an electrician, quite an unassuming fella.
34:27And both in looks and demeanour.
34:31My understanding is that he...
34:32...he'd been married about three times and he...
34:37...he was a keen cyclist, so...
34:40...the inquiry team were able to establish...
34:42...that through routes that he'd taken on his cycles, he knew Romney Marsh area.
34:47Where Caroline's body was found outside in a field...
34:51All of those...
34:52...little things that were adding up to more than a DNA profile.
34:57That matched him.
34:58And he'd been in and around the area at the time of the murder.
35:02He would have seen all of the crime watch appeals.
35:05He would have known that the...
35:07...police were looking for somebody.
35:08They arrested him on suspicion of the murders.
35:12Yeah, thank you.
35:13So you're a 605, I've got the final.
35:17And they were able to take, once he was arrested, able to take his DNA profile.
35:21Which...
35:22...within a very short space of time...
35:24...was analysed and matched to the crime scene stain.
35:27It was always a question for...
35:31It was always a question for...
35:32...of the inquiry team when I was around and I'm sure beyond that time.
35:37...of what do you do when you stop murdering people?
35:41And I think that...
35:42...that answer came...
35:43...when they started searching his home...
35:46...upon his arrest.
35:47And what they found.
35:52Why did Fuller stop killing after...
35:57...the murders of Wendy and Caroline?
35:59Well, for that, we have to understand...
36:02...why he killed them in the first place.
36:07...the murders of Wendy Nell and Caroline Pierce in 1987.
36:10It appears from the...
36:12...forensic pathology that they were raped...
36:15...post being killed.
36:17And I think this must have been...
36:20...his thing.
36:22It was raining.
36:23I'm so happy to
36:33You see, here's a lie.
36:37You see.
36:40You see, there's a Netflix parade...
36:42Twitter, they were filmed all over the years...
36:45...we saw a Ginob Kiev really well.
36:46That's a note.
36:51And as a result of that, that allows police to search property.
36:56What is relating to him?
37:01They were obviously securing the evidence for when...
37:06...Bendinelle and Caroline Pearce, and behind things like wardrobes.
37:11And chests of drawers.
37:13They found hard drives.
37:15They found...
37:16...vast amount of photographs, still images, video...
37:21...and they were very disturbing.
37:26When they were taken back...
37:29...to the police station...
37:31...the police station officers had to look at some of that material.
37:35It was the most disturbing...
37:36...images that anyone could imagine.
37:40When you think that...
37:42...you've seen it all...
37:44...and heard it all in the police.
37:47Nobody...
37:48...could ever comprehend what they were watching.
37:51...was a man...
37:53...in the mortuary...
37:55...of...
37:56...the Kent and Sussex New Hospital...
38:00...where he says...
38:01...athomatically abused...
38:04...dead bodies.
38:07He videoed himself...
38:10...having sex with both.
38:11...and...
38:14...spending time...
38:15...with bodies.
38:17And what I'm talking about here is...
38:18...my understanding is that...
38:20...these were people.
38:21...of the age between...
38:23...nine and one hundred.
38:25And...
38:26...he had systematically...
38:28...gone about this...
38:29...over a number of years.
38:32Where do you go...
38:33...when you've...
38:34...killed somebody...
38:35...you've abducted some...
38:36...you know...
38:37...he must have been looking...
38:38...for...
38:39...the next thing...
38:40...to...
38:42...satisfy...
38:43...his urge.
38:45...
38:46...why would Fuller...
38:47...video himself...
38:49...carrying out...
38:50...those despicable...
38:51...the axe...
38:52...on those dead bodies...
38:53...knowing that...
38:54...if ever anybody else...
38:55...saw that footage...
38:56...he was going to get...
38:57...into trouble.
38:58Well...
38:59...ultimately...
39:00...he's been...
39:01...driven...
39:02...by a need...
39:03...to feel...
39:04...emotion...
39:05...of its power...
39:06...control...
39:06...sexual...
39:07...gratification...
39:09...but by videoing it...
39:10...it allows...
39:11...him to then...
39:12...replicate that...
39:13...later on...
39:14...at his own convenience.
39:16He carried out...
39:17...some research...
39:18...on the internet...
39:19...about them...
39:20...and...
39:21...looked at...
39:22...facebook...
39:23...em...
39:24...and different things...
39:25...around the people.
39:26...that he was abusing.
39:27He was almost like...
39:28...profiling...
39:29...the kind of person...
39:30...that he was abusing.
39:31...but he had a catalogue of it...
39:33...in diary format...
39:34...which was in meticulous...
39:35...dates...
39:37...times...
39:38...the persons...
39:39...because...
39:40...as you know...
39:41...when you...
39:42...go to a mortuary...
39:43...then you will have...
39:44...identification written on...
39:45...so he had access...
39:46...to that information...
39:47...and he'd actually...
39:48...categorised them...
39:49...and...
39:50...listed them...
39:51...in priority...
39:52...as who was the best...
39:53...and that kind of thing...
39:54...I mean it's...
39:55...just unimaginable...
39:56...isn't it?
39:57...and then...
39:58...when we link that...
39:59...with family...
40:00...liaison officers...
40:01...then visiting the families...
40:02...and having to...
40:03...you know...
40:04...how do you be...
40:05...begin...
40:06...to tell...
40:07...a family...
40:08...that...
40:09...their...
40:10...dis...
40:10...deceased...
40:11...loved one...
40:12...was abused...
40:13...and...
40:14...there was...
40:15...photographs...
40:15...the...
40:16...the...
40:17...the...
40:18...graphic evidence...
40:19...of what he did...
40:20...what else was going on...
40:21...what sort of thing...
40:20Did this turn up what did they find so things that turned up
40:25that proved really significant with things like a photograph of
40:30David Fuller lying on his front and with his feet up.
40:35And when you look at the trainer mark, that trainer mark.
40:40The same sports track, park, trainer mark that was left in.
40:45Blood on Wendy's blouse, hugely significant.
40:50When full of...
40:55He was interviewed at a police station.
40:57What did he tell officers?
40:59He initially denied...
41:00The offences of the murders of Wendy Nell and Caroline Pearce
41:03and that he didn't know...
41:05much about the murders or Tunbridge Wells, in effect,
41:08and he tried to distance.
41:10Very much from the inquiry, despite the overwhelming evidence that they had.
41:15So we knew that we had the DNA at Wendy's flat.
41:18We had DNA...
41:20and a partial profile from Caroline in the ditch
41:23that were linked together and proved it was...
41:25from one and the same person.
41:27With that and then his match.
41:30to the DNA at Wendy's flat left him nowhere to go.
41:33He couldn't argue.
41:35against that DNA profile and his DNA profile being there.
41:40David Fuller was initially charged with the two murders.
41:42The murder of Caroline and Wendy.
41:45in 1987.
41:46And then later charged with a number of offenders.
41:50instances linking to his activity in the mortuary.
41:53But I am admitting we have...
41:55but I don't really want to go into detail.
41:57And in liaison with the Crown Prosecution Service.
42:00He would have had authority to charge,
42:02and then he was taken before the court.
42:05After...
42:10Over three decades from when Wendy and Caroline...
42:15were murdered,
42:16there eventually came a court trial.
42:20The day where the killer would have to face...
42:25what he'd done.
42:26He'd have to go into court and either plead guilty...
42:30or not guilty.
42:32What did Fuller Elector do?
42:35in the last 20 minutes?
42:36What did people do?
42:37What did the whole thing...
42:38in her family?
42:39The story counts as to tell her.
42:40He pleaded not guilty on the grounds of diminished responsibility initially.
42:45But when the police and David Fuller's psychology...
42:50...we just got together, it became quite apparent that...
42:55...he wasn't mad and there was a very abrupt stop on the fourth day.
43:00It was the day of the trial when David Fuller pleaded guilty.
43:06What sentence was passed to Fuller?
43:09For...
43:10...the murders of Wendy and Caroline, he received two whole life sentences.
43:14He was told by the...
43:15...to judge that you will never be let out of prison.
43:20David Fuller pleaded guilty to 51 offences...
43:25...against 78 victims in the mortuary.
43:29And for the...
43:30...the rest of his activities, he got a 12-year sentence to run concurrently.
43:35...with that whole life order.
43:38David Fuller.
43:40He was an animal.
43:41...to...
43:42...worse than an animal.
43:43He killed the ladies in the way...
43:45and then fulfill his sexual desires in the way he did.
43:50The way that he did after that, it just, there's no word.
43:55But I am pleased that he is now behind bars for the rest of his life.
44:00And does not represent a danger to any other females.
44:04He's one of...
44:05Probably one of the top four notorious killers that we've ever put together.
44:10Can I take this opportunity to ask you how you reflect...
44:15...back on this whole investigation and...
44:20...of Wendy and Caroline's murders?
44:23I'm really proud of the fact...
44:25...that the work that the original investigation team did and what we...
44:30...did as a team from 2008...
44:33...in making sure...
44:35...that we eventually identified the killer of Wendy Nell and Caroline Pierce.
44:40And their names should never be forgotten.
44:42And they certainly weren't forgotten by us as a team.
44:45Would you like to hear the music playing?
44:48Shall we?
44:50And they were given to the members of the community.
44:52Let's go to the community.
44:53There are many moments of Masa.
44:55There are many many moments of almost.
44:58The family has been able to visit the community...
45:00...and have been able to visit the community.
45:02So...
45:04...they were able to visit the community.
45:05For the writings of Austausen, the family...
45:09...the family has been able to visit the community.
45:11an investigation that could quite easily have been forgotten if it wasn't for your persistence.
45:21For those who ever doubt why we bother with cold case investigations.
45:26Then David Fuller absolutely stands out as someone.
45:31Exactly why we bother because not only had he murdered two young females.
45:36But he'd committed all those heinous offenses in the mortuary.
45:41This case is a prime example of why cold case reviews are so...
45:46So important if the samples are stored correctly and they're examined.
45:51In later years, evidence can still be found and we can still convict...
45:56offenders years and decades later after an offense has occurred.
46:08The investigation into Wendy...
46:13and Caroline's murders reminded me that even if killers evade justice...
46:18they've been killed for years.
46:19When there are dedicated officers such as Andrea on the case...
46:23there's always that hope for families that one day...
46:26they will get that justice for their loved ones.
46:28The investigation into the community...
46:29It does not think through your fault...
46:30It does not have to be that justice...
46:31theënkkah outside to the right.
46:32The death.
46:33The death.
46:34The death.
46:35The death.
46:36The death.
46:37The death.
46:38The death.
46:39The death.
46:40The death.
46:41The death.
46:42The death.
46:43The death.
46:44The death.
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