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00:00If you have a one to two day trade horizon, then investing in crypto
00:05is a challenging thing to do, a lot of the speculative money in the last
00:10month or so has been going into gold, you see silver trading as a
00:15meme coin, literally trading as a meme coin that you haven't seen in almost
00:20a generation.
00:21So a lot of the speculative money that you would typically see go to crypto, you're
00:25seeing go to commodities.
00:26I think I would tell investors to take a longer term view.
00:35Hey everyone, you're watching Markets Outlook on CoinDesk.
00:40I'm Jen Sinassi and I'm joined today by Sharplink CEO and former head of digital
00:44assets.
00:45Strategy at BlackRock, Joseph Shalom, as we take a look at the markets this morning
00:49and what to watch this week.
00:50Hey, Joseph.
00:51Good morning, Jen from Frigid, New York.
00:54Yes.
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00:55It is frigid.
00:56It looks like you're staying warm, as am I, but I haven't been outdoors.
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01:08Joseph, let's talk.
01:09Let's talk about what we're seeing in the markets this morning.
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01:38organization, stable coins, more DeFi activity. I think we need to.
01:43Explain why we're not seeing price action. Again, we're in some ways, some of the best.
01:48News we've seen in years. And I think the way to explain it is we are.
01:53In a period of both geopolitical and macro uncertainty, the.
01:58Macro setup is actually stealing wind from the sales from all this.
02:03Great news that we would expect to be reflected in Bitcoin and ethers.
02:08Price. And I think what you're starting to see, especially a Bitcoin, is it's.
02:13Always been the leader. But if you look closely, we've been seeing some of the OG.
02:18These sell. And sometimes sell in very large blocks.
02:23Partially because of concerns around quantum proof and you haven't.
02:28We've seen the movement you would expect in Bitcoin and ETH, given both the market uncertainty and some.
02:33Old holders selling, which we hadn't seen in quite a while.
02:38Let's talk a little bit about that. We have retail investors watching on the sidelines.
02:41We're seeing big whales.
02:43Sell. I think we saw just this morning that there is a whale that's moved one hundred and forty five million.
02:48Dollars worth of ETH to a centralized exchange.
02:51We're seeing gold hit new high.
02:53For that retail investor that's watching this, they're thinking, should I follow these whales?
02:58Should I sell wallets? Should I be selling? Should I be worried about quantum?
03:01Should I rather be looking?
03:03If you're looking at gold as a safe haven asset, what would you tell them?
03:06I would tell them if you have a one to.
03:08Two day trade horizon, then investing in crypto is a challenging.
03:13thing to do a lot of the speculative money in the last month or so.
03:18If it has been going into gold, you see silver trading as a meme coin.
03:23Literally trading as a meme coin that you haven't seen in almost a generation.
03:28A lot of the speculative money that you would typically see go to crypto, you're seeing go to commodity.
03:33I think I would tell investors to take a longer term view.
03:36Actually, people.
03:38Crypto have done better by buying and holding when you have a thesis than in date.
03:43Trading.
03:44And I think the news that I would ask them to focus on is.
03:48You're starting to see the largest financial institutions in the world who own.
03:53Trillions and trillions of dollars of assets, not just hint, not just give break.
03:58They're announcing at the top of their lungs that all assets.
04:03Are going to be tokenized and it's going to happen on digital rails.
04:06And if you've seen that.
04:08Foreign investments from the likes of Black Rock, and Bank of New York, and Goldman Sachs.
04:12Another.
04:13others, it's happening on Ethereum.
04:15So the tailwinds for the Ethereum ecosystem
04:18have frankly never been stronger.
04:20Davos last week, you can argue, was
04:23dominated by two topics, Greenland and crypto.
04:26But on the crypto front,
04:28you heard Larry Fink and BlackRock essentially
04:30say all assets will be tokenized.
04:33And they had a beautiful slide that essentially
04:36posited with a very...
04:38very strong conviction that Ethereum
04:40will be that toll road for tokenization.
04:42So I would say to your...
04:43investors, don't focus on the daily.
04:46Actually invest where the...
04:48the puck is going and the macro is telling you
04:51to invest in tokenization, stable...
04:53coins and you can get that exposure from Ethereum.
04:56I want to talk about that a little more in a...
04:58a second, but I want to touch on the comment
05:00you just made about silver trading like a meme coin.
05:02What do you mean by that?
05:03I think in long-term trends when you...
05:08geopolitical risks, when there's worried...
05:10worries about war...
05:12great...
05:13breakdown of norms and you're starting to see
05:15potentially breakdown of norms with Real...
05:18politic.
05:19Gold has been always the first price mover.
05:23And you've seen gold almost double in the last year and a half.
05:27But very quickly...
05:28when speculative money comes in, it's often silver that attracts...
05:33the faster money and has a faster price movement.
05:36And you're seeing that.
05:37You're seeing...
05:38I would say the lesser quality commodity trade up because that's...
05:43where the speculation is going.
05:45Let's come back to the Ethereum ecosystem...
05:48my question for you has to do with the Ethereum versus Solana narrative.
05:53We've heard a lot of folks come out and say Solana is the chain for Wall Street.
05:57I know that...
05:58from your writing and hearing you speak in various different outlets...
06:01from your perspective, Ethereum...
06:03Ethereum is the chain that's going to power Wall Street.
06:05Talk to me a little bit about that competition.
06:08Is there room for both?
06:09And if not, what makes Ethereum the better chain?
06:13Sure.
06:14I won't share my perspectives.
06:15Maybe I'll just share facts.
06:16So the fact is that...
06:18Ethereum has been around for 10 years.
06:21It's the secure, trusted and liquid...
06:23ecosystem.
06:24And I talk about both the layer one mainnet as well as...
06:28the long set of layer twos who help do that roll-up strategy.
06:32So...
06:33Solana has been fast and cheap, but it has not been secure.
06:37It has had down...
06:38time.
06:39And I think what you're going to end up seeing and you're seeing it now is the real institutions
06:43who...
06:43companies care only about three things.
06:45Trust, security and liquidity.
06:47They're built...
06:48building on Ethereum for high value projects.
06:51Where you're talking about moving money...
06:53tokenizing assets, representing ownership.
06:56It's happening on Ethereum more than...
06:5865% of stable coins and tokenized assets are happening there.
07:0310x what you see on Solana.
07:05I do think there's a role for cheap, fast...
07:08less secure chains.
07:09And I think Solana will win in the meme coin...
07:13maybe the gaming space...
07:14where actually security matters a lot less...
07:17and speed...
07:18matters more.
07:19So it's not my perspective.
07:20It's what you're seeing in the industry.
07:22Ethereum...
07:23leads and high quality assets in DeFi tokenization and stable coins.
07:28by a factor of 10 to 1...
07:30over Solana...
07:31and that cap is only getting larger...
07:33it's not my perspective.
07:35People are voting with their feet.
07:37Coming...
07:38coming back to what we were speaking about earlier...
07:40when do you think the price of EAT starts...
07:43to catch up with the action we're seeing on the Ethereum chain...
07:47and the total value...
07:48value locked?
07:49I think the TVL in action is there...
07:51and I think we're at the early...
07:53stages...
07:54we started in tokenization...
07:56by individual funds...
07:57when I was...
07:58at BlackRock...
07:59we tokenized the largest fund in the world...
08:01called Biddle...
08:02I think you're gonna stop...
08:03seeing individual funds and stocks being tokenized...
08:06you're gonna see fund complex...
08:08platforms...
08:09be tokenized...
08:10you know...
08:11and that is what's really exciting...
08:12because...
08:13you're...
08:13you're gonna take things...
08:14that have taken years to grow...
08:15to 30 billion of tokenized RWA...
08:18potentially go to trillions in the next year...
08:21because of that...
08:22I think...
08:23we need to get through this macro uncertainty...
08:26in the markets...
08:27some of...
08:28it is the geopolitical risk...
08:30some of it has been a rotation...
08:31to speculation on AI...
08:33I think we're gonna see that happen...
08:35in the next month or two...
08:38typically when you've seen drawdowns...
08:40it takes three or four months...
08:41to get leverage out of the system...
08:43that started on October 10th...
08:45with the consolidation...
08:47day...
08:48we're about three months past that...
08:50and in historical cycles...
08:52you start seeing the...
08:53trend...
08:54after that's been worked through...
08:55and I think the macro tailwinds...
08:57the story...
08:58the adoption...
08:59is there...
09:00we just need to get...
09:01through some of this geopolitical...
09:03risk...
09:04and general markets uncertainty...
09:06something else...
09:07everyone is talking about...
09:08of course is...
09:09market structure legislation...
09:10in the United States...
09:11which is kind of stalled right now...
09:13how are you looking at...
09:15at market structure...
09:16what if it doesn't pass before...
09:18midterms...
09:19is that gonna have...
09:20a dynamic effect...
09:21do you think...
09:22on Bitcoin...
09:23and Ethereum...
09:24or do you think...
09:25it's going to be...
09:26business as usual...
09:27the builders...
09:28will continue building...
09:28value...
09:29will continue accruing...
09:30on both chains?
09:31I think you have...
09:32a lot of clarity already...
09:33even though...
09:34the clarity act...
09:35hasn't passed...
09:36you have favorable...
09:37government actions...
09:38we've seen...
09:39enforcement actions...
09:40go down...
09:41there's a very...
09:42clear path...
09:43I...
09:43I think the market's...
09:44already...
09:45building in the fact...
09:46that it's gonna pass...
09:47whether it happens...
09:48in February...
09:48or it happens in July...
09:50I think fundamentally...
09:51it's being built...
09:52into the system...
09:53builders are there...
09:54the VCs are back...
09:56but I don't think...
09:58that...
09:59I think it's gonna have...
10:00a more...
10:01of an impact...
10:02on the winners...
10:03and losers...
10:04within the ecosystem...
10:03which are the...
10:04going to be the...
10:05intermediaries...
10:06who benefit...
10:07more than others...
10:08but I think...
10:09overall...
10:10the path...
10:11and the tailwind...
10:12on regulatory clarity...
10:13is already...
10:13easier...
10:14and you're seeing that...
10:15like...
10:16you're seeing that...
10:17because the largest...
10:18institution...
10:18in the world...
10:19who control...
10:20700 trillion dollars...
10:22of assets...
10:23are already...
10:24starting to build...
10:25into this ecosystem...
10:26and they're making...
10:27long-term bets...
10:28because...
10:28they know...
10:29it's gonna pass...
10:30it's less of an issue...
10:31if it passes...
10:32this quarter...
10:33or next...
10:33you mentioned...
10:34quantum...
10:34a few minutes...
10:35ago...
10:35and I wanna...
10:36unpack that...
10:37a little bit...
10:37with you...
10:38Quantum and AI are being seen as threats to crypto ecosystems for.
10:43Similar reasons, let's start with Quantum.
10:46How is Ethereum?
10:48I'm preparing, I guess, for the threat posed by Quantum.
10:53Quantum computing.
10:54Sure.
10:55Look, I think if you looked back two years.
10:58Ago, people thought that Quantum would really come in 2000.
11:03And I think there's a reality that with recent advances and with AI, the.
11:08Quantum generation is going to happen much quicker on Friday.
11:13Ethereum Foundation did something amazing.
11:15They clarified their action plan on.
11:18Quantum resistance.
11:18They are in the pole position to be the first and maybe.
11:23The only decentralized quantum resistant infrastructure you would have seen.
11:28Justin Drake announced they have a new post-quantum team that's meeting on a periodic.
11:33basis, they formalized publicly their plans and more than.
11:38Any other blockchain or network, Ethereum has.
11:43The track record for over 10 years of delivering multiple major.
11:48Leases and we have a lot of confidence that that will happen much more than what you're.
11:53seeing in Bitcoin and Solana with respect to AI, I actually don't.
11:58see it as a threat, I actually see it as a macro tailwind and what do I.
12:03mean by that, if you take a step back, AI has been something that has been.
12:08introduced in 2025 into just generalized enterprise software.
12:13I think what you're going to start seeing this year is task specific.
12:18We're not doing this in D hebbenberg has talked about the monQLs of the big questions.
12:19What do a lot of transparency is now.
12:20What is a extend?
12:21What is an insurance company that forensic industry,перв Groß GP?
12:22how do I govern?
12:22What is an insurance company?
12:23How do I move the advisor for our COVIDibilites and tensile?
12:24So進士 how does our private domain work?
12:25The AI, whether we're at economics?
12:27When we're up with former managers, all the에요.
12:28What do we do have an engineering technology where we're Waypro will open in to
12:33the 401k and those Panthers has alwaysksen who are in two groups with HR and schools
12:44information to help get milk via milk.
12:45Matt will probably suffer some of the days of the program that we were staying Brent
12:46The idea that you can give these agentic agents constraints like.
12:51Yield and risk and tolerance and they can rebalance portfolios.
12:56You're going to start seeing automated market making happening from.
13:01Wallets in a way that humans have to do themselves.
13:04And I think what's most interesting.
13:06Is this agentic capability, what we call an agentic Ethereum economy.
13:11Is going to start allowing people to participate in DeFi in ways that they've never.
13:16Done before having your wallet or your app essentially rebalance your.
13:21Staking, look for yield, restake and essentially operate.
13:26A little bit more autonomously.
13:28It's how people in traditional finance will.
13:31Seek returns and you're going to start seeing in crypto.
13:34What's really positive about this is.
13:36You're going to start seeing transaction volumes go up massively.
13:40And more and more.
13:41More of the activity from DeFi happen on networks like Ethereum.
13:45And that's very.
13:46Positive both for TVL and transaction counts that you're going to see on Ethereum.
13:51So rather than a threat, I see agentic as one of the tailwinds and you'll see if you.
13:56Want to geek out read ERC 8004.
14:00It is a trust.
14:01Less agentic protocol on Ethereum that I think is going to build a new type of.
14:06Machine economy on Ethereum that we've never seen before.
14:09So I think we're at the early stage.
14:11of the transformation of finance and this idea that agentic agents can help.
14:16individual investors do their investing better for them than they've ever done before.
14:21I've heard a lot of people say that in a way, maybe crypto wasn't developed for humans.
14:26Maybe it was developed for AI and that's what's going to that's what's going to bring us this billion users.
14:31That everyone has been talking about for, for the last five or so years.
14:35Do you agree?
14:36I do.
14:37And I think we're underestimating it.
14:38You know, we've been talking about AI and crypto.
14:41for a very long time, but there's a great quote from Bill Gates that we.
14:46often overestimate what's going to happen with teams or technology in a year, but we.
14:51fundamentally underestimate the impact of these technological changes over a decade.
14:56we've been building this and I think we've been overestimating it in the short run now is.
15:01most of the time we're going to start seeing massive adoption of decentralized rails.
15:06And I think you're going to end up seeing both traditional institutions and individual users.
15:11rely on these decentralized rails and agenda capabilities.
15:16in ways that they had never anticipated, it might start in their consumer life, but it.
15:21certainly coming very quickly in their financial lives and I think it's going to be.
15:26step function in advance and how money is moved and how people interact with their money.
15:31over what we've seen, which was really stagnant change over a couple of generations.
15:36So I'm bullish and I think we're underestimating the impact and it's going to bring a lot of prosperity.
15:41when I mentioned AI as a threat, some folks have told me that AI.
15:46AI allows folks who previously weren't able to act as developers do that.
15:51you know, giving them the tools to potentially break smart contracts or break different crypto ecosystem.
15:56it sounds like maybe that's something that is not going to happen.
16:01effect Ethereum or how are you, do you think about that?
16:04We do. I think quantum in the long.
16:06run is the bigger threat and we're quite relieved and excited that Ethereum and the Ethereum foundation.
16:11foundation is going to take the leading role.
16:13I think what's interesting is you can make an argument.
16:16that AI can potentially beat mechanisms as you said, but AI.
16:21AI can do things that we've never done before, which is monitor smart contracts in real.
16:26AI can in real time for flaws to actually play a defensive role as well.
16:31So I think it's going to bring good and bad.
16:33I think the ecosystem will stay ahead of it.
16:36But I think it's more likely that you're protected in a decentralized trust.
16:41And I think it's more likely that you're protected in a trusted ecosystem like Ethereum than you are in traditional Rails where you rely on.
16:46Humans and centralized silo technology to try to protect you.
16:51Ethereum is seeing something remarkable right now, which is the likes of Bitmine and Sharma.
16:56Sharpling, the largest corporate holders of Ethereum, are staking in Ethereum.
17:01It's going to be on a scale that they've never seen before, and that's adding significant economic security.
17:06To the network, you're not seeing that in Solana.
17:09And I think this is going to be a really, really.
17:11positive force.
17:12And when institutions start buying Ether to secure their transactions,
17:16on-chain, it's going to provide even more staked security.
17:20So this is a self-
17:21self-reinforcing positive flywheel, and we're quite bullish that now is the time.
17:26to enter this space.
17:27All right, let's talk about Sharpling, second largest corporate holder.
17:31of Ethereum, talk to us about your strategy as we get deeper into 2026.
17:36Sure.
17:37I think last summer you saw the treasury, the digital asset treasury,
17:41treasury space explode across Bitcoin, Ether, Solana, and other chains.
17:46That was that first phase of formation and initial capital gathering we raised.
17:51a little over $3 billion, but we've built the most institutional team.
17:56of any data, and I would say we're the most focused of any of the digital.
18:01asset treasuries in the Ethereum space because we're run by people who have traditional-
18:06finance backgrounds, who came from crypto as well, who understand risk management.
18:11And we've been staking 100% nearly of our ETH from-
18:16foundation because ETH is a productive asset.
18:19Unlike Bitcoin, you need to-
18:21we need to be putting it to work to earn that 2.5% to 3.5% yield.
18:25We've also-
18:26we've also been innovating in this space.
18:28We like to think of ourselves as pioneers.
18:30We've also been innovating in this space.
18:31We like to think of ourselves as pioneers.
18:31While others have either not been staking or just earning the native staking yield.
18:36We've been composing institutional DeFi solutions to drive even-
18:41even more returns to our investors.
18:43We announced earlier this month-
18:46that we deployed $170 million of our ETH.
18:51The-
18:51the largest public company deployment into DeFi in conjunction with-
18:56the consensus, the linear chain, EtherFi, and Eigencloud-
19:01to-
19:01to essentially do restaking capabilities on-chain, earn incentives beyond-
19:06the yield rate.
19:07But we did something that no one had done before as a public company-
19:11to keep this DeFi investment within a qualified custodian at Anchorage.
19:16So think about what we're doing.
19:18We're allowing investors to get DeFi level yields-
19:21while keeping it within the protection of a regulated custodian had never been done before.
19:26And that's part of what we're trying to do to pioneer.
19:29Extend into DeFi.
19:31But not take the risks that you would see in a Web3 wallet.
19:34So we're quite excited.
19:36This-
19:36This is great for investors.
19:37You mentioned digital asset treasuries really kind of took over the-
19:41the spotlight last year heading into 2026.
19:44It feels like some of the air has been-
19:46of course there are strategies like the one that you just outlined that are showing some-
19:51innovation when it comes to some of these digital asset treasuries.
19:54I have to ask you, I was listening to Anthony-
19:56Scaramucci's podcast recently.
19:58Mike Novogratz was on there.
19:59He said he thinks that a lot of these-
20:01digital asset treasuries are going to be trading below their net asset value unless they-
20:06he can come up with some real business operations.
20:09How do you respond to that and-
20:11can you tell us a little bit more about the sustainability of Sharplink?
20:15What are those business operations-
20:16that are going to take you beyond 2026 and bring investors the value that they're expecting?
20:21Sure.
20:22So I said the first phase is formation.
20:24You had to do it right.
20:25Many-
20:26the first phase is that the assets did not form with the right teams or the right incentives.
20:30Second is you have to-
20:31to make your ETH productive and we've been doing that.
20:34The beautiful thing about-
20:36we're having permanent capital.
20:37And what do I mean by that?
20:39We have a clean balance sheet-
20:41we're not a fund where you have daily liquidity.
20:43We're just a stock that you can buy and sell every-
20:46day.
20:47The billions of dollars of ETH we own, we take a decade-long approach-
20:51to making it productive.
20:53And so our plans are to do two things.
20:56One-
20:56one is to take that certainty into the ecosystem and off-
21:01to offer them these protocols, multi-year locks to-
21:06to allow them to grow their protocol knowing that they can use our ETH and-
21:11in a productive manner.
21:12Crypto has never seen permanent capital, and that's a really good thing.
21:16Second, because of our strategic partnership with ConsenSys and having Joe Lubin on our board-
21:21we now have entree to some of the newest and smartest protocols.
21:26And-
21:26and we will find some of them who will give us token value, which could 2x 5-
21:3110x because we're early into the new institutional DeFi cycle.
21:36And then without sharing anything that I shouldn't as a public company CEO-
21:41We-
21:41we will build operations and businesses in the Ethereum-
21:46ecosystem that will kick off ETH-denominated revenue.
21:50So it becomes a-
21:51a virtuous cycle.
21:52That said, we have to recognize that the valuations have-
21:56consolidated.
21:57I think in the long run, they will mean revert because if you-
22:01own billions of dollars of ETH, you're generating staking revenue and you can build ETH-denominated-
22:06businesses.
22:07I think public markets will reward that.
22:09So we're built for upside-
22:11cycles and down cycles because we have permanent capital and a really great institution-
22:16management team who understands both opportunities and risk.
22:20So we're bullish on-
22:21the sector, even though right now we're in a bit of a consolidation phase.
22:25And Joseph-
22:26the last thing I'm going to ask you.
22:27I know that you recently outlined four reasons why you think ETH's total value locked-
22:31is going to 10X this year.
22:32I think we hit all of them during our interview, but you have a-
22:36price target by end of year.
22:37I don't have a price target.
22:39I'll let others tell us where the-
22:41price of silver, gold, ETH, Bitcoin are going in the next month.
22:45I have a very-
22:46very strong macro view that the more activity that is coming to the Ethereum-
22:51ecosystem, the L1 and the L2s, will drive demand for Ether.
22:56And-
22:56and drive the price of Ether up.
22:58I can't tell you whether we're going to get out of this-
23:01a bit of a consolidated period this month or next month, but I'm sharing with you-
23:06if you're-
23:06you're a long-term investor and you believe that decentralized rails are going to re-
23:11rewrite the Wall Street market structure, now is the time to be owning Ether at this-
23:16price.
23:17And Sharplink offers that really smart exposure vehicle without-
23:21the management fee that you see in the ETFs, now is a great time to enter-
23:26especially since the price seems to be poised for- for an increase.
23:30But I'll- I'll allow others-
23:31who are wonderful builders and speculators to pick the price for next week.
23:36I don't-
23:36I don't know what it is.
23:37I know the price will be higher quarters from now.
23:40Joseph, thanks.
23:41thanks so much for joining the show.
23:42Josh
23:44Jen, thanks for having me.
23:46Stay warm!
23:46You
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