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00:00Previously on Sister Wives 1 on 1, let's take a look at this clip.
00:07I got in this place where I was like backdoor deal almost with Janelle.
00:10Hey, we'll just sell it out from under these other two.
00:13How are they?
00:15That is so wrong.
00:17I'm so mad.
00:20Why is Janelle calling this a power play by you?
00:24Because she got caught backstabbing Mary, I guess.
00:28I don't know.
00:28There was no backdoor deal.
00:30There wasn't.
00:31I wanted to apologize for how we broke up, for how it all went down.
00:38I want to apologize for being angry about it.
00:42Where in the hell is Robin at?
00:43This is weird.
00:44Your ex-husband across the table from you saying, I did love you.
00:49Shouldn't it have been couples?
00:50Why wasn't Robin there?
00:52So why didn't you go?
00:56Because this isn't about me.
00:58I can appreciate that David was offended, but if I feel like telling Christine I love
01:04her or that I loved her, that's not breaking bro code to me.
01:09That was part of his testimony and sort of his enlightenment.
01:14That's not my problem.
01:15He wanted to be able to release the people in his life so they can go on and live their lives.
01:20Oh, so you're his property then, huh?
01:21Is that the way you put it?
01:23Is that the property?
01:26This is Sister Wives One-on-One.
01:31Is that a release?
01:33That doesn't make any sense at all.
01:35When Christine says she was done and she left, that point she was gone.
01:40There was no releasing from him on that part.
01:42That means that he has control of her.
01:45That's a power play.
01:47That's a power game.
01:48Mental game.
01:49You don't do that to a human being.
01:51Would Robin being there made it better?
01:53Made this whole conversation a little bit more comfortable, especially the whole I did love you part?
01:59I don't think he should have said it at all.
02:00Okay.
02:01Even if Robin was present.
02:02No, no, no.
02:03All he needed to do is say, I apologize for my actions.
02:06And then let's let it go.
02:07Let it go with that.
02:08He could just say, I apologize for my actions and then leave it there.
02:12If Robin was there, I think the whole thing would have been like, okay, maybe we can go ahead and make some things work and things like that.
02:20With him not bringing her, I thought it was disrespectful to her for him to say that without her there.
02:25Okay, so there's no trip in the Moab in the future.
02:28Oh, God.
02:28No, there's no trip in Moab.
02:30He wouldn't go with me.
02:31We are not going to do that.
02:33I think Christine was maybe a little offended about the apology.
02:38Oh.
02:38Yeah.
02:39She was offended about the apology?
02:40Well, I think she was like, you know, this is my husband.
02:43She felt like it was inappropriate.
02:45You know, I don't need you to say that you loved me in front of my husband.
02:49Okay.
02:50Yeah, so I don't know where else he would have said it except for trying to be responsible.
02:53That's why he wanted David there.
02:55Like, this is appropriate enough because he's here.
02:58I'm not saying this while her husband's not there.
03:01Got it.
03:01Does that make sense?
03:02And that was a big deal for him to say because it was so wrong of him to say and really not a truth.
03:09Do you think he can ever be friends?
03:11Um, I don't know the answer to that.
03:17That doesn't mean that we can't be friends.
03:20It means we should be friendly until trust is re...
03:28Until trust is resurrected because it's dead.
03:31All right.
03:34So Janelle had the honor of being the first wife that you gave the olive branch to to receive your apology.
03:41Yeah.
03:41To be fair, I wanted to go to Janelle first because I thought she'd be the kindest.
03:47If I had to pick somebody who was going to do this first with...
03:50But I had made everything right with Coyote Pass with her.
03:53I'd made everything right with her on all of our property agreements.
03:56So I figured that it'd be the safest going that direction.
04:00She was calm.
04:01She was clear.
04:02And the conversation, it felt good.
04:06But let's take a look at it and we'll explain where your head was when you were talking and giving the apology.
04:13I think the meanest thing that I did was I said I didn't love you.
04:19That wasn't true.
04:21That was a lie from the perspective of pain.
04:24I knew.
04:25I knew it.
04:25I knew that you loved me.
04:27I did.
04:28Like, I know that we had a great relationship.
04:32Because I knew how it was for all those years.
04:36Do you know what I mean?
04:37When you and I got married, I remember this affection that we shared.
04:44I wish I would have seen the need for you and I to protect our special place.
04:52If I would have understood that, I think it would have been a lot safer for you.
04:59I feel like I put you in harm's way.
05:03And then it didn't step up to protect you.
05:07Wow.
05:10Because I frequently would think about you and I and become very, very aware of how unsafe plural marriage was for you.
05:21And for that.
05:24And the fact that I didn't protect you.
05:26Like.
05:27We didn't know.
05:29We didn't have no idea.
05:30There was no book or anyone advising us.
05:34It wasn't, but it was, it was, it was like, so, and I don't even want to blame plural marriage as difficult as that situation is.
05:41No, it was just that we didn't, we didn't know how to protect our relationship.
05:44I feel like we've needed an olive branch, the entire family.
05:48And Janelle, you get the high owner.
05:50What?
05:50And being the person I felt the safest with to start offering that olive branch.
05:56I think Janelle is like processing because there was a lot thrown out there.
05:59But what really stuck out to me was the fact that you're apologizing for the early years.
06:04Where both of you were unsafe and you're getting emotional thinking about it right now.
06:08I remember the experience when we first got married, there was just a desire she had to be a safe place for me.
06:19And we didn't protect it well enough.
06:24We lost, we lost the plot.
06:26How?
06:28There's a perceived loss of resource, I guess, when you enter into plural marriage.
06:33Get that second wife.
06:34Neither of them feel like they're getting enough.
06:36They start competing to get more.
06:38There's a lot of times I felt like it cost me my own happiness because I couldn't ever keep them happy.
06:44I just, like, I was empathetic enough to go, well, she's not happy and she's not happy.
06:48And it was just a mixture of, just a major struggle.
06:54Your overall reaction?
06:56Yeah, I mean, I, it was very sweet.
06:58I thought it was very sweet.
06:59And there was definitely, you know, old time connection, I think, between us.
07:03Some of that old nostalgia.
07:04But what was the most healing, I think, for me was to hear him apologize about the early years.
07:10Because we really did struggle on how to live plural marriage.
07:15How did you end up coming into the family?
07:17Was it Mary that brought you into the family?
07:20No, actually, they both sort of pursued me.
07:25Oh, they both courted you.
07:27I, like, I had started to, I had really started to, like, embrace the faith, like, fundamentalist approach to the faith.
07:37So I was already there.
07:38I was already kind of leaning into that.
07:40And Cody and Mary were my friends.
07:44There was always, like, a little bit of a sparkle, I guess, you know?
07:51And you have to realize when we get, when you get married and you're not, and you're already married, you know, if someone's already married and you're considering marrying them, there's not a lot of dating.
08:03There's not a lot of getting to know each other.
08:05It's more like a very spiritual thing.
08:07There's a lot of prayer involved, a lot of spiritual kind of whisperings or inklings, inspiration, that that's where you belong.
08:16What were the early years like for the three of you?
08:18Because he's alluding to certain things, so I'm just curious.
08:21Yeah, the early years were a challenge.
08:23You know, we're all very young.
08:25Yeah.
08:26We had history, even in the early years, you know what I mean?
08:31History meaning the connection to each other?
08:33Yeah.
08:33Let me do the math.
08:34Yep.
08:34So you and Janelle were friends.
08:37Janelle and I were sisters-in-law.
08:39She was married to my brother.
08:40Okay.
08:40So Janelle and you were sisters-in-law.
08:42Mm-hmm.
08:42And then you married Cody.
08:44Mm-hmm.
08:45And then Janelle came into the family through you?
08:50Um, I wouldn't say through me, but that's how she and Cody knew each other, because she was my sister-in-law.
08:56Okay.
08:57She was always really close with my parents after she and my brother split, which was after Cody and I got married.
09:08Um, and she just kind of was present, you know?
09:12So we stayed in each other's lives.
09:14So how did you become sister-wives then?
09:17Well, they decided that it was a good connection, and she was interested in plural marriage, and we all talked about it.
09:29He and I talked about it.
09:31They talked about it.
09:32That's just how it works.
09:33And you prayed, and that's how it was.
09:35Yeah.
09:35So when we were all first married, we all lived together in a very small trailer.
09:40And personality conflicts between Mary and I, what they were, it was pretty volatile.
09:50It could have been.
09:50It was pretty volatile.
09:52But what were you guys fighting about if it was volatile?
09:54No, like, it was just nitpicky.
09:56Like, I didn't clean the dishes right, or I, um...
10:02You brought up the dishes last time I asked this question.
10:05So the dishes were a big thing.
10:07Yeah, it was a thing.
10:08Like, I remember, you know, just little things.
10:10Like, little, when you're just being nitpicky with someone, just finding all those things, right?
10:14Like, I remember one time, um, the argument was about that I didn't put the drain catcher thingy in,
10:24so too much food or too much stuff was going down the drain when we washed dishes.
10:28Well, I just started putting a lot more food down the drain.
10:32I'm like, it's all she will you.
10:35But it was just, like, sort of childish.
10:38But I think it was just a symptom.
10:40It was an expression of the conflict, I think, that you're going through as you sort out who you are,
10:46who your identity is, and being strong and understanding that you have worth and you are equal.
10:51Well, Janelle mentioned that there was a lot of moments that was very tense.
10:55Yeah.
10:55What were you guys fighting about?
10:57I don't know.
10:57That was, like, 30-something years ago.
11:00I know that she likes to bring up the way that the towels were folded or something like that, you know?
11:06Dishes.
11:07She brought up dishes.
11:08How the dishes were washed.
11:09She always liked to do the dishes in the morning, like, after they sat all night.
11:16And I'm like, let's just wake up in the morning and have a clean kitchen.
11:19Let's get them done at night, you know?
11:21And so there was feelings about stupid things like dishes, you know what I mean?
11:26And so my point in saying all that is it's dumb stuff that we thought was important,
11:33and you look back and it's like, it's really not.
11:36But it caused challenges.
11:38I tried to tell them, don't talk to me about your problems with each other.
11:43You've got to work those out yourself because I felt like one's pitting me against the other.
11:48And so I finally said, you guys have got to start working out these problems, and they didn't.
11:54They worked out very poorly.
11:57And I probably should have been back in there refereeing, but I'm a terrible referee.
12:03So did you feel like you were unable to protect Janelle from Mary?
12:08Or vice versa.
12:10You know what I'm saying?
12:11It's like, it wasn't a matter of protecting Janelle from Mary or protecting Mary from Janelle.
12:17It was a matter that whatever it was, there was a dissatisfaction in the experience.
12:24But you also mentioned in the apology that, you know, you put Janelle in harm's way.
12:29What did you mean by that?
12:30Um, there's a difficulty and a struggle that I couldn't protect her from,
12:40and that my efforts in loving her or reassuring her maybe weren't strong enough, focused enough.
12:51I know she didn't feel safe.
12:56Maybe Mary didn't either, but Mary fought different.
13:00And so she seemed like she was perfectly fine.
13:04Looking back, I don't know what I could have done, but I'm sorry that I didn't do it.
13:13I'm just...
13:14How did Mary fight that was different than Janelle?
13:20Yeah, she's just willing to scrap.
13:23Willing to scrap.
13:24When you say scrap, what does that mean?
13:26She's just willing to get right in your face and do the yelling and the escalation and the fighting.
13:34It's just like, and in front of anybody.
13:36Does plural marriage not allow space for that emotional intimacy?
13:46I don't know.
13:51I don't know how it could.
13:53Yeah.
13:53And I don't like to throw lifestyles under the bus.
13:57You know, this is...
13:58Some people, I'm sure, find great satisfaction in their plural marriages,
14:01but I think most people don't.
14:04So as far as emotional intimacy means that when you're with someone, you're really with them.
14:10And you love them for that person.
14:12It's not like there's always someone else in back.
14:15Because go on a trip with Cody.
14:17Well, I know that he has wives at home.
14:19And I know that he has relationships with those wives at home.
14:23And that was always on his mind.
14:24You know, even though he's trying to compartmentalize,
14:27I know that it...
14:29How can it be possible?
14:30How can it?
14:30Do you think the other wives would agree with you that Cody is capable of emotional intimacy?
14:36I don't know if I care if they would agree with that anymore.
14:41Not to be rude, but I just can't worry about that anymore.
14:45I know that he is, and I know that he did in the past.
14:48I saw it, and I...
14:50Yeah, I witnessed it.
14:53So in the early years, did you not have enough emotional resources in the tank
14:59to love two women at the same time?
15:02No, I had enough resources in the tank to love two women at the same time,
15:05but they've got to accept the love.
15:07They've got to...
15:08It's like if you're super high-maintenance,
15:10it's going to become a problem, probably.
15:12Who was high-maintenance?
15:14Well, Janelle wasn't.
15:16Coming up...
15:17When you ask me to go back in the past and think about it,
15:20my head starts to spin.
15:23Like there was nothing I could do.
15:26Cody and Janelle fail to recognize that
15:29possibly some of the issues that I had in polygamy
15:34could have stemmed from the fact that,
15:37oh, they wanted to get married on my birthday.
15:41They're like, it doesn't matter.
15:42We'll just celebrate it a different day.
15:44Like, excuse me, it does matter.
15:51Who was high-maintenance?
15:53Well, Janelle wasn't.
15:54So Mary was high-maintenance.
15:56Yeah, and then in that,
16:00if I was to sit and go back and analyze,
16:03I loved Janelle,
16:06but Mary was more emotionally open.
16:15I don't understand that.
16:17Can you explain that, please?
16:18Oh, gosh.
16:20You loved Janelle,
16:21but Mary was more emotionally open.
16:24Mary was, um...
16:27But in the same breath,
16:29you said that Mary was high-maintenance.
16:31She was...
16:31When you asked me to go back in the past
16:35and think about it,
16:36my head starts to spin
16:38like there was nothing I could do,
16:42and there was nothing I could say, do,
16:45or behave like to make that experience
16:49pleasant and easy.
16:54perpetually.
16:55And I'm not talking about
16:56the difficulties in regular marriage.
16:59This is way beyond that.
17:01And if I hadn't have been, like,
17:03ridiculously optimistic,
17:05I don't know if we would have survived.
17:08I had a lot of emotions
17:11based on the way that,
17:14for instance, Janelle came into the family
17:16and the way that, you know,
17:18like, just different situations like that.
17:21Explain that one about Janelle
17:22coming into the family.
17:23Oh, well, people don't...
17:25I'm not just going to say people.
17:28I'm going to say Cody.
17:29Cody and Janelle fail to recognize
17:32that possibly some of the issues
17:35that I had in polygamy
17:38could have stemmed from the fact that,
17:40oh, they wanted to get married on my birthday.
17:44They had planned to get married on my birthday.
17:47It wasn't until his mom got involved
17:49and was like, no, don't do that.
17:51Yeah, they were like, it doesn't matter.
17:53We'll just celebrate it a different day.
17:55Like, excuse me, it does matter.
17:57You know, so let's start the marriage relationship,
18:02the family relationship with that.
18:03And they forget that, oh, there might have been
18:07some emotions involved with the fact
18:09that she used to be married to my brother.
18:12I always wondered that.
18:14So tell me, what kind of emotions
18:16were involved with that?
18:17There's a lot of emotion.
18:19There's a lot of emotion.
18:21She has said...
18:23She has said that when she met Cody,
18:27she had these feelings of,
18:30oh my goodness, I knew him.
18:33It's like I met this person that I just,
18:35you know, it's like he was part of me.
18:37I don't remember exactly her words.
18:39I don't want to put words into her mouth.
18:41I had one of those moments
18:43before I even started to consider
18:46being in their family
18:47and I didn't even know what to do with it.
18:48I was at Mary's house
18:50because I knew Mary's family
18:52and they were having a bunch of people over
18:56for something I don't remember.
18:58And Cody walked in the room
18:59and it was the first time I'd seen him
19:00and there was this moment of like,
19:02oh, there you are.
19:04Kind of like you remember somebody
19:06that you haven't seen for a long time.
19:08It was very distinct.
19:09But I wasn't even hanging out with them really as friends
19:14and I just put it away
19:15because I'm like, I don't know what that means.
19:17And then all of a sudden you're being asked
19:18to be a part of this plural marriage.
19:20Did Cody know that you saw him at Mary's house
19:23and that you had this feeling?
19:25I think I told him later.
19:27And actually I asked to be in their family.
19:29They never asked me.
19:30Oh.
19:31I knew them as a couple
19:32and I just felt inspired to say,
19:35look, I think I belong in your family.
19:36And so we went and spoke to the church leadership
19:39and we all fasted and prayed together
19:43and we felt like it was the right thing.
19:45Like it was just this very intense thing.
19:49And I remember her saying
19:51that when she saw him,
19:54she wanted her sons to have his build.
19:58Cody's got a nice build, right?
20:00And she wanted that.
20:02And I'm just like,
20:03you don't think that those things
20:06might be a little bit troublesome
20:09to the wife that you used to be the sister-in-law of?
20:13You know what I mean?
20:14And so my point in saying that
20:16is not to throw him or her under the bus.
20:19It's just to say these are facts.
20:22I had emotions
20:23and I was the one who was in trouble
20:25for having these emotions.
20:29Now, I was probably in trouble
20:31more for how I reacted
20:33because you know what?
20:34Sometimes I would cry
20:35and sometimes I would like,
20:36come on, Cody,
20:37I need some more attention.
20:39Okay.
20:40So you're not even married to Cody
20:41and you're having these feelings already.
20:45Why didn't you say no
20:46to Janelle coming into the family?
20:48No, no, no.
20:49I didn't have these feelings
20:50until she was coming into the family.
20:52Okay.
20:53Because I didn't know
20:55that she had those thoughts
20:56until she was coming into the family
20:57and even later after she was in the family.
21:00But you knew that she had already been married
21:02to your brother
21:03and you had those intense feelings about that.
21:05Yeah.
21:05That aspect of it,
21:07I mean, when you think about it,
21:09that's weird.
21:11That's awkward.
21:12That's uncomfortable.
21:13Yeah.
21:14It was very uncomfortable.
21:15But you never said anything like,
21:16hey, Cody, that's awkward.
21:17She used to be married to my brother.
21:19I did.
21:20Now you want to marry her
21:21and bring her into this
21:22polygamous family.
21:24Yeah, I did.
21:24We talked about it.
21:26But, like,
21:28I was not supposed to
21:29have those thoughts or feelings
21:31or emotions about it.
21:33Like, I was the one
21:34who was in the wrong
21:35for having those.
21:36Why?
21:36We're supposed to
21:37endure to the end
21:38and we're supposed to
21:40live this way
21:41because this is what's going to,
21:42you know,
21:42we're going to gain salvation from it,
21:44whatever.
21:45Right.
21:45There's this ideal
21:46that everyone has
21:47to be a perfect wife,
21:48a perfect sister wife,
21:49a perfect,
21:49and then you add on
21:50to all this perfection
21:51that you want to hit.
21:53And, yeah, no,
21:54you feel insecure about things.
21:56You feel jealous about things.
21:57All of it.
21:58The whole thing,
21:59suffering to the end,
22:00endure to the end,
22:01all of that,
22:02it's just sad.
22:02It's just sad
22:03that it's this
22:05religious expectation
22:06that makes you
22:07this better person
22:08and it's just hard.
22:12Let's talk a little bit
22:13about this next clip
22:14that we want to get to.
22:16And it was really
22:16a candid conversation.
22:18You have a lot of discussions,
22:19which is interesting to see
22:20over this past year.
22:22Yeah.
22:22You have discussions
22:23on even polygamy.
22:24And the next clip
22:24that I want to really talk about
22:26is your differing views
22:27on polygamy.
22:28Let's take a look
22:29at this clip
22:29and then we'll talk after.
22:31Cool.
22:32My thing was,
22:34look,
22:34if I'm having a bad time
22:35with Cody
22:36and a bad situation,
22:38I don't want to see him
22:38being physically affectionate
22:40with other wives
22:40in front of me.
22:41Like a slap in the face.
22:42All it does
22:43is create a lot of hate,
22:45a lot of jealousy,
22:46a lot of control.
22:48I've definitely seen that.
22:49I've talked to friends
22:50that their biggest thing
22:51is, you know what I love
22:52about polygamy?
22:53Is they compete
22:54for my love.
22:56Mind games start
22:56playing in your head
22:57and you start thinking,
22:58well, what's that person doing
22:59that I'm not doing?
23:00Can I do better?
23:01And the guy has an ego.
23:03Oh, they love the fighting.
23:05They love the competition
23:06between the women.
23:07I didn't feel like
23:07I was being controlled
23:08by Cody.
23:10They teach you
23:10that it makes you better.
23:12Oh, no,
23:12the famous quote is,
23:13endure to the end.
23:15Endure to the end,
23:16if you can imagine.
23:17That's sad.
23:18I don't know.
23:19It's an interesting idea
23:21in the church culture
23:22that we came from
23:23that suffering
23:24was going to make you better.
23:25I didn't handle myself
23:28the best all the time.
23:30I remember being very jealous.
23:32I thought I was living polygamy wrong.
23:34I thought I was a human being wrong.
23:36I thought I was a woman wrong,
23:38a wife wrong.
23:39I couldn't even have a baby,
23:41for heaven's sakes.
23:42It was hard.
23:43So, Christine,
23:45do you agree with David's perception
23:47on polygamy?
23:48I think overall,
23:50it's just hard.
23:52Just can't look at it like that
23:53because I have a family
23:53that still lives it.
23:55But then it comes down to it,
23:57and he's right.
23:58He's right.
23:59I think I see more sadness
24:00in polygamy
24:01than anything else.
24:03I look at so many
24:04polygamous families,
24:05and they don't look happy.
24:06It's just sad.
24:07And it's like,
24:08what is the secret sauce here
24:10that convinces women
24:12to be okay
24:14with their husband
24:15having this other relationship
24:17with this other woman,
24:18but it makes you better.
24:19So, it's okay.
24:20What is the secret
24:22that they tell them?
24:22What is it, you know?
24:24So, it was part of my culture.
24:25So, do you feel like
24:26you were indoctrinated
24:27into the culture?
24:27Probably.
24:28I would say be indoctrinated.
24:30Yeah, I would say so.
24:31I'm looking on the other side
24:32from my experience
24:34since I was, you know,
24:36two, three years old
24:37into it,
24:38that if this is
24:39so righteous thing,
24:41why is it so miserable?
24:43So, how is it so right?
24:47When I saw David,
24:49it just made my stomach
24:50just turn
24:51because I think it's wrong
24:52to paint everybody
24:53with the brush
24:54of your one experience.
24:55And I'm not denying
24:56that his sister
24:57had this experience.
24:58And I think lots of things
25:00happen in monogamy.
25:01I think lots of things
25:02happen in all kinds
25:03of relationships
25:03that can be really screwed up.
25:05Janelle took issue
25:06with your description
25:07of, you know,
25:09polygamy.
25:10And she said
25:10it was a very broad
25:11brush stroke
25:12of what it actually is.
25:15And what you experienced
25:17isn't necessarily
25:18what other people experience.
25:19My question to her is,
25:21where did you guys go
25:23in your family?
25:24Where did it end up now?
25:25They're not together anymore.
25:27And I'm not trying to do that
25:28because it can happen
25:29in monogamous...
25:29I was going to say
25:30monogamous couples
25:31also divorced.
25:31Oh, I've experienced it
25:32in a lot of different religions.
25:35But when I was talking,
25:37I was talking about
25:37my own experience,
25:38what I,
25:39why she took it personally,
25:41I have no idea.
25:42Because I wasn't referring
25:43to your guys' church at all.
25:45I was talking about
25:47my relationship
25:48from what I've been
25:50since I was a kid
25:51down in Mexico.
25:52I think David thinks
25:54he knows a lot
25:54about plural marriage.
25:55I think he was a kid
25:56when his sister
25:57was struggling through it
25:58and he wanted
25:58to protect his sister.
25:59I think he might
26:00have noble thoughts about it,
26:01but I don't think
26:02he knows that much about it.
26:03He associated with
26:04a bunch of construction workers
26:05that were polygamists
26:06or something.
26:07And, you know,
26:09I've met some
26:09polygamist construction workers
26:11that I thought were pigs.
26:13So his reflection
26:14has nothing to do
26:15with our family.
26:16I hated it
26:16when my wives
26:17weren't getting along.
26:18When he talks
26:19about polygamists
26:20like wanting their wives
26:21to be jealous
26:21and stuff like that.
26:22You did mention
26:23that Janelle and Mary
26:25used to compete
26:26for attention.
26:28Coming up,
26:32do you think
26:32most polygamists
26:33have to have
26:34a big ego?
26:36I think that
26:37it would be better
26:38if he didn't.
26:39I think that
26:40having a big ego
26:41is what causes problems.
26:43Do you think
26:44Cody has a big ego?
26:45Yeah.
26:46Are you okay
26:47with his big ego?
26:47It's fine.
26:48It doesn't,
26:49it's not my problem anymore.
26:50You did mention
26:56that Janelle and Mary
26:58used to compete
26:59for attention.
27:01I wasn't promoting that.
27:03Do you understand
27:04what I'm saying?
27:05He's talking about men
27:06who are promoting that.
27:08I think that's sick
27:09and wrong.
27:10This is my point,
27:11is David was looking
27:12into polygamy.
27:14I was in it.
27:15He doesn't know
27:16anything about it
27:18other than
27:19from his
27:19outside experience,
27:21which means
27:22that he doesn't
27:23know Jack.
27:24But David doesn't
27:25know that he doesn't
27:26know Jack
27:26because David thinks
27:28he knows Jack.
27:29Now,
27:29I've lived plural marriage
27:31long enough to know
27:31that I don't know
27:32Jack,
27:33but David still thinks
27:34he knows Jack,
27:35but he doesn't know
27:36Jack.
27:36I think he means well
27:39and you know what,
27:41when you're having
27:41a candid conversation
27:42like that,
27:43you're just talking
27:44off the handle.
27:46He had an experience
27:47and it made him
27:49angry about polygamy.
27:51I've been around
27:52a lot longer
27:52than he's been in it.
27:54I have.
27:55I've witnessed
27:55and seen
27:56the heartaches
27:57of many women
27:58down in Mexico
27:59being around
28:00with my mom
28:01and listening to
28:02these women all talk,
28:03listening to the guys
28:04talk down there.
28:05It's not like
28:06it's a fresh thing
28:07since I met Christine
28:08and all of a sudden
28:08I know polygamy.
28:10No,
28:10I've been around it
28:10my whole life.
28:11I can tell you
28:12stories after stories
28:13about what happens
28:15down there
28:16and for him to say
28:18that's fine,
28:19but I do know
28:20a lot about it.
28:21I have never lived it.
28:22I don't have to
28:23understand about
28:25how hard it is
28:26to have a baby
28:26to have one.
28:28You can see it.
28:29Do you believe
28:29that Cody has a big ego?
28:31All guys have egos.
28:32It depends on how big
28:33or wherever it's at,
28:35but he does have an ego.
28:36In the polygamy sector,
28:38it is an ego there.
28:39I've had friends
28:40that were that way.
28:41They loved it.
28:42One of my friends
28:43said one time
28:44when I was younger,
28:45you had to get in polygamy.
28:47It is so much fun.
28:48The competing is awesome.
28:51Do you agree
28:52with David's take on this?
28:55David's sister
28:59was in a different group,
29:01and so that might have been
29:04the experience
29:06that he had,
29:07but that's not
29:08what I ever heard about
29:09and saw in my church.
29:12Do you think
29:12most polygamists
29:13have to have a big ego?
29:16I think that it would be better
29:18if you didn't.
29:19I think that having a big ego
29:21is what causes the problems.
29:23Does Cody have the big ego?
29:25Cody definitely has a big ego.
29:27He always has.
29:27But I enjoy him.
29:29He's fun, right?
29:31He's fun to hang out with.
29:33He's charismatic.
29:35He's a little bit too cocky.
29:37I don't like cocky.
29:39And that kind of goes
29:40along with ego.
29:42So there's times
29:44that he does have that.
29:46Do you think Cody
29:47has a big ego?
29:48Yeah.
29:49Are you okay
29:50with his big ego?
29:51It's fine.
29:51It doesn't,
29:52it's not my problem anymore.
29:54Yeah.
29:55But I think he has an ego,
29:56and I think that's okay.
29:57Do you think all men
29:58have to have a big ego
29:59in order to be a polygamist?
30:01I think you have to feel
30:02pretty confident
30:03in who you are.
30:04I don't think it,
30:05an ego can be misconstrued.
30:08Like, I think a healthy ego
30:09is a good thing.
30:10To feel confident
30:11in who you are
30:12and being able to lead,
30:14yeah, I think that's great.
30:15Okay.
30:15But an ego,
30:16like he's talking about
30:17machismo or whatever,
30:18like where it's like,
30:19I'm the man.
30:20Like, that's not,
30:21that wouldn't be good.
30:22Did you ever feel
30:24that Cody wanted you guys
30:26competing for his love?
30:28No, I never felt like that.
30:30I never felt like
30:30I had to compete.
30:32So do you agree with David
30:33about the women
30:34having to have to compete
30:36with each other
30:37for a man's affection
30:38in polygamy?
30:40I have seen that happen,
30:41and I don't agree
30:44that it has to happen.
30:46I've seen it happen with us.
30:49I've seen it happen
30:51in other families.
30:53I've seen it in our family
30:54where Cody is willing
30:56and able to show love
30:58to all of us.
31:00So I don't,
31:01I don't agree that it's a,
31:03that's something that you could
31:04just put a blanket statement on.
31:07Have you ever had that feeling,
31:09that feeling that you had
31:10to compete for affection?
31:14Coming up,
31:15I'm just here to apologize,
31:17Mary, not to argue with you.
31:17No, I'm going to tell you this, Cody.
31:19I'm going to tell you.
31:20You're not going to
31:20shut me down anymore.
31:22Okay, so I'm going to,
31:23I'm going to finish
31:24what I'm saying.
31:25Were you surprised
31:26that you demanded
31:29what you demanded from him?
31:31No, because I'm,
31:32I'm done being walked
31:35all over by him.
31:37And I don't think
31:38that he knows
31:41what to do with that.
31:47Have you ever had
31:48that feeling,
31:49that feeling that you had
31:50to compete for affection?
31:53You know,
31:54I've never felt like
31:55that I had to compete,
31:56but I did look at myself
31:59and be like,
31:59okay, what do I need
32:00to change to be accepted
32:02and change to be loved
32:04and change to be welcomed in?
32:07Did you feel like
32:08you really did everything wrong?
32:10There were definitely times
32:12in my life
32:13that I didn't feel like
32:14anything that I could do
32:16was right.
32:18I mean, I said it,
32:19like I couldn't even have a baby.
32:21Something was wrong with me.
32:23You know, I mean,
32:24I finally did,
32:25but then I couldn't
32:25have any more.
32:27And I don't think
32:28that any of them
32:29thought I was wrong,
32:31necessarily,
32:31for having feelings
32:33and emotions,
32:34but I don't know
32:34how empathetic
32:36they were with it.
32:37Right.
32:37You know,
32:37watching them all
32:38have babies
32:40when I couldn't.
32:41You know what I mean?
32:42Right.
32:43That's a huge challenge.
32:44It's one thing
32:44to watch my sisters
32:46or friends
32:47or whatever
32:47have babies
32:48when I want them.
32:50Right.
32:51It's a whole other level
32:52to watch my husband
32:53have them with other people.
32:55The fact that Mary
32:56was feeling that
32:56she just had one kid
32:58that she felt less than.
33:00That was a...
33:00Had she ever shared that
33:01with everybody?
33:02Yeah.
33:02Can you help me process this?
33:04Can we...
33:04Oh, yeah.
33:05And, like,
33:05there were special
33:06circumstances.
33:08Like, each of us
33:10would go and tell Mary
33:11when we were pregnant
33:12before we would tell
33:13anyone else
33:13to help her
33:14be able to have
33:15the time to process
33:16that in time.
33:17You know,
33:17just to let her
33:19feel supported in that
33:21and say,
33:22you know,
33:22I know this is hard for you
33:23and I am pregnant
33:24and I love you.
33:27And that's why
33:28I offered to do
33:29surrogacy for her
33:30because I was trying
33:32to support that part
33:33of her pain
33:35and her story.
33:37I could go back
33:38and I can say
33:39they didn't honor me
33:40or they didn't...
33:42They had too much
33:44contention with each other.
33:46I could sit and blame
33:47everything on them.
33:48And what it was
33:49is I was just over my head
33:50in leadership
33:51that I couldn't manage.
33:52and with that
33:54I want to talk
33:55about Mary's apology.
33:57Okay.
33:57Okay.
33:58You sit down with Mary
33:59and you offer
34:01an apology
34:02for years of hurt
34:03and what we're going
34:06to see in the clip
34:07is that Mary pushes back
34:09and she pushes back
34:10really hard
34:11and it was a tough
34:12conversation.
34:13I want you to take
34:14a look at the clip
34:15and then we'll talk
34:16about it.
34:16Okay.
34:18I apologize, Mary,
34:20for my part
34:23in everything
34:24that happened.
34:26Everything.
34:29I apologize.
34:31I want you more
34:32than anything
34:33to just be able
34:34to move on.
34:35I have.
34:37The way your friends
34:38talk about me
34:39that doesn't seem like it
34:40but I wanted you
34:41to be able to do that.
34:42You can stop right there.
34:44Listen, this isn't
34:45a time for us to fight.
34:46Well, then don't bring
34:47up my friends
34:48and what they say
34:49because guess what?
34:50I'm going to tell you
34:51this, Cody.
34:54No, I'm going to tell you
34:56this.
34:56It'll just ruin.
34:57I'm just here
34:58to apologize, Mary,
34:58not to argue with you.
35:00I'm going to tell you
35:01you're not going
35:02to shut me down anymore.
35:04Okay, so I'm going
35:05to finish what I'm saying
35:06and when I'm not
35:07treated well,
35:09the people closest
35:10to me will defend me
35:12and that's what
35:13my friends do.
35:16Cody, I would love
35:17to have a conversation
35:18instead of just sit here
35:19and listen to you
35:20apologize.
35:21You and I can't talk
35:22because we will
35:23trigger each other.
35:25Frankly, I kind of
35:26lost myself.
35:27Guess what?
35:29I get that.
35:31Back in Vegas,
35:32all that time,
35:34that was very dark
35:35for me.
35:36I apologize
35:37that your dark time
35:39I wasn't there.
35:41The dark time
35:42was because
35:43you weren't there.
35:45You don't need
35:46this from me,
35:47but I tell you
35:48I forgive you
35:49for that.
35:51This,
35:52I want you
35:54to feel like
35:54this is about you,
35:56but it's really
35:56about me and God.
35:57I can tell
35:58it's about you.
35:59I don't want it
36:00to burden you.
36:00Oh, it's not.
36:02No, no, I just,
36:03I sincerely just
36:04don't want it,
36:05any of it troubling you.
36:06What's your reaction?
36:11I mean,
36:12I kind of chuckled
36:13a few times
36:13watching it,
36:14but I'm like,
36:14damn, girl.
36:16Kind of a little
36:18bit of a change.
36:19Were you surprised
36:20that you demanded
36:22what you demanded
36:24from him?
36:25No, because I'm,
36:26I'm done
36:28being walked
36:32all over
36:32by him
36:33emotionally.
36:36Mm-hmm.
36:36I'm not going
36:37to do that
36:37anymore.
36:38And I don't
36:39think that he
36:40knows what
36:42to do with that.
36:44Were you surprised
36:44that he even
36:45wanted to apologize
36:45to you?
36:47Yeah, I think
36:48I kind of was.
36:49Yeah.
36:49He has been
36:50so set
36:51in his ways
36:54and his stance
36:55and his opinion
36:56in what he says
36:58and how he treats
36:59me for so long
37:00that I,
37:02I just,
37:03it shocked me.
37:04It surprised me.
37:05And I,
37:06I still wonder
37:07how sincere
37:08it really was.
37:10Do you think
37:11he was being sincere
37:12in his apology
37:12to her?
37:14I do.
37:15I mean,
37:15at least my experience
37:16was it felt very sincere.
37:18Um,
37:19but there were times
37:20it felt like
37:21he was losing
37:22his patience
37:23with her,
37:23you know?
37:24Because they were
37:25going back
37:25to that dynamic
37:26where they were
37:26just like
37:27irritating each other,
37:28I think.
37:30Like she's,
37:30she's can be
37:31very sharp
37:32with her words
37:32and she was
37:33very sharp
37:34and I'm not saying
37:35she wasn't justified.
37:36She definitely
37:36had justification
37:37to say all those things.
37:40So what do you think
37:40about that conversation?
37:42Oh,
37:42sounds like
37:43marrying Cody.
37:44What does that mean?
37:45It's just what
37:46their relationship
37:46was always like.
37:48You know,
37:48those old-fashioned
37:49firecrackers.
37:50Hmm.
37:50They just kind of
37:51always set each other off.
37:53They just,
37:54I don't know.
37:56What are your thoughts
37:56on that?
37:57Oh my God.
37:58That,
37:59yeah,
37:59no,
38:00that conversation
38:00was just for himself.
38:02I,
38:02all of that,
38:03Mary was great.
38:04That was awesome.
38:06That was great.
38:07I love it.
38:08She just put him
38:09in his place
38:09and she's like,
38:10this isn't for me,
38:10this is all for you
38:11and it's like
38:12it's between him
38:13and God
38:14and the more he talked,
38:15the more I'm like,
38:15you need to stop.
38:17You need to stop.
38:17The more you're talking,
38:19no,
38:19no,
38:20no,
38:20no.
38:20Once he started
38:21talking about her friends,
38:22the conversation
38:23really was over.
38:24Would you ever talk
38:25to Cody
38:26like the way Mary did?
38:29Uh,
38:30coming up.
38:32How was this
38:32experience for you?
38:34She's very angry.
38:35I'm going to,
38:35like,
38:36this apology
38:37may not be easy
38:39in any way.
38:40No.
38:40Just because
38:41she still wants
38:43to talk about her hurt
38:45and what I did wrong.
38:47would you ever talk to Cody
38:56like the way Mary did?
38:58Uh,
38:59no.
39:01Probably not.
39:02No.
39:03Why?
39:04Because I don't,
39:05I just don't take him
39:07seriously enough.
39:09And I'm like,
39:09look,
39:09I know you're here
39:10for yourself.
39:10I know you need
39:11to apologize for yourself.
39:12But me telling him
39:13that isn't going
39:14to make a difference.
39:14He's just going
39:15to patronize me.
39:16He's not going to,
39:17then there's no sincerity
39:18in the conversation
39:19whatsoever.
39:19He would just
39:20patronize me.
39:21What,
39:21what there
39:22triggered you
39:23when he started
39:24talking about Jen?
39:25You don't get to talk
39:26about my people
39:27like that.
39:29You don't get to talk
39:30about my people
39:31that way.
39:32Don't push me back
39:33into a corner
39:33because I will fight.
39:35Do you think Cody
39:36understands why
39:37this is such a sore
39:38subject for you?
39:40Oh,
39:40I don't think
39:42he gets it
39:43and I don't think
39:44that he thinks
39:44I have the right
39:45to feel like that
39:46for whatever reason.
39:49I don't know why
39:49because she's
39:51just a friend.
39:52Like,
39:53he would do
39:54the same thing
39:54and does do
39:55the same thing
39:56for Robin,
39:57right?
39:59Like,
39:59she is
40:00his person.
40:02That's what you do
40:03for your people.
40:04You know what I mean?
40:05But does he have
40:06a right to say
40:06anything about
40:07her friends?
40:08Well,
40:08I think if they
40:09have an opinion
40:10that they're giving
40:10about him,
40:11he might have
40:11a right to say
40:12something.
40:13Yeah.
40:14Cody's not married
40:14to Mary anymore.
40:16If he was married
40:17to Mary
40:17and treated her
40:18with respect,
40:20then he gets
40:21to have an opinion
40:21about her friends,
40:22maybe.
40:23But he's not married
40:24to her.
40:24He didn't treat her
40:25with respect.
40:26He didn't treat her
40:26with kindness,
40:27love,
40:27nothing.
40:28So he doesn't
40:29have a right
40:29to voice his opinion
40:31about Mary's friends
40:32to her.
40:33He can tell Robin
40:34about his feelings
40:35about Mary's friends
40:35because he has
40:36respect for her.
40:38But no,
40:38he can't.
40:39He can't.
40:40He can't lay claim
40:41on that part
40:42of her life?
40:42No,
40:43he can't lay claim
40:43on any part
40:44of Mary's life.
40:45No.
40:47How was this experience
40:48for you?
40:49She's very angry.
40:50I'm going to,
40:51like,
40:51this apology may
40:52not be easy
40:54in any way.
40:55No.
40:55Just because
40:56she still wants
40:58to talk about her
40:59hurt and what
41:01I did wrong.
41:04I mean,
41:04I'd rather have
41:05a real sincere
41:07honesty,
41:08like,
41:09real sincere
41:10pushback
41:11and get through
41:13the process
41:14rather than have
41:15her go back
41:15to her friends
41:16and go,
41:17yeah,
41:17he was just
41:18an asshole.
41:19You know,
41:19he was faking
41:20his apology
41:21or something like that.
41:21Well,
41:22she used the word
41:22insincere.
41:23Yeah,
41:23yeah.
41:24She said she was
41:24feeling insincere,
41:25that she didn't even
41:26know what this was about.
41:27Well,
41:28it was because
41:28she might have felt
41:29the insincerity
41:30because it was
41:31so awkward.
41:32Why was it so awkward?
41:34Well,
41:34we just spent
41:35the last six months
41:36only communicating
41:37through lawyers.
41:38But the last time
41:39we were sitting here,
41:40you called her
41:41your favorite ex-wife.
41:43You moved her out,
41:44you know,
41:44things looked great
41:45and now...
41:46Well,
41:47I moved her
41:47and she's like,
41:48we're going to be
41:48nice to each other
41:49now, right?
41:50I'm like,
41:50yeah.
41:51And what happened?
41:53Well,
41:54one of us thought
41:55the other drew first blood
41:57and went for the jugular.
42:00I mean,
42:01we were under
42:02the illusion
42:03of betrayal.
42:06What I should have
42:07been in her place,
42:08when I felt like
42:09she had done something
42:10that offended me,
42:11I should have
42:11just let it go.
42:13What did she do
42:14to offend you?
42:15Next time on
42:23Sister Wives
42:23One-on-One.
42:24There's times
42:25where conversations
42:27have been had
42:27or he'll text
42:28or he'll call
42:29or something happens
42:30and so the true Cody
42:32then shines through.
42:33And there's times
42:34where he said
42:35and done things
42:36that were really
42:37not okay.
42:37Did Jen influence
42:39have some sort
42:40of influence
42:41over Mary?
42:43Mary's actions
42:44to leave the family?
42:46Possibly, yes.
42:48She said to me
42:48one time,
42:49well, I told Mary
42:49that she should,
42:51you know,
42:51just take all the money
42:52and leave.
42:53And I,
42:54at that point,
42:54I sort of ended
42:55that professional
42:56relationship with her
42:56because I felt
42:57uncomfortable.
42:58She's very sarcastic.
42:59She probably did say it,
43:01but I would say
43:01in a sarcastic way
43:02if she did.
43:03To me,
43:04it feels like
43:05that this is a story
43:06that has just recently
43:08been fabricated
43:08for whatever reason.
43:10Do you understand
43:11why maybe Mary
43:13could have a right
43:14to distrust you?
43:16No.
43:17No.
43:18I absolutely do not.
43:20But this is why
43:21they feel that
43:22they can't be friends
43:24or trust Robin.
43:25If your wife's
43:26having an affair
43:27and your other wife
43:28tells you,
43:29that's my business
43:31no matter what.
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