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01:36I think that the same that does, that this goes beyond Gaza, that there can be a clash with some principles of international law.
01:45Because it started as Gaza, now it seems it's a private UN.
01:47It should be Gaza, because the Security Council resolution creates the Board of Peace for Gaza.
01:56That's the only task for which it's mandated, and that's how it should be.
02:01So we are all Europeans, we are looking at that.
02:03And the legal and the political implication of this Board of Peace.
02:07And you prefer a joint position, an EU joint position, that would be the ideal?
02:10I would prefer.
02:11There are some countries that have already announced their choice, but we are still discussing among ourselves.
02:17So some would say this Davos shows that it really is the force and the survival of the Fed is really the racketeering of the world.
02:24Everything now is a competition or competition for global resources and power.
02:28Is that the impression that you get?
02:29Not at all.
02:30Not at all there are some countries that might like a world like this.
02:36But once again, we are more the ones that we stand for our principles, and we are going to continue doing it.
02:42But when you see this whole context of a global race for resources, for rare earth, when you see President Trump saying,
02:49we are the strength of the world, does that not tell you the world is changing now in a way that perhaps is not compatible with those values?
02:55Certainly, there are countries that think that war or the threat of the use of force, it's another tool of foreign policy.
03:03But once again, as Europeans, our responsibility, it's even greater than before.
03:10We have to stand strong on our values.
03:14And our values are those of democracy, of international law, and defending peace.
03:19But values is not a strategy.
03:20So what is a strategy for Spain and for Europe?
03:22If you say we are the alternative and we can present a better alternative, what is it?
03:27Values are the core of what we are as Europeans.
03:31If we lose our values, we renounce to be ourselves.
03:35Now it's more important than ever that our security, our well-being remains in our hands.
03:41We have to remove the last obstacles of the single market to be even stronger economically.
03:47We have to tell everyone that we have the instruments to deter any coercion, whether it comes from trade or from the economy.
03:56And we need enterprises that can be in competition everywhere in the world, including in the digital world.
04:03And finally, we need the security, the European security, the deterrence in our hands.
04:08So we have to start to move towards a European army.
04:11Towards a European army?
04:13Absolutely.
04:13And what would that look like?
04:14Because it's been pitched in the past and rejected every time.
04:17Why is this time going to be different?
04:18It was at the very beginning of our founding fathers.
04:20It was rejected.
04:21In the 50s, we were very, very close to doing it.
04:23Europeans are willing to die for Europe?
04:25Certainly.
04:26If we want to continue being a soil of peace in which no one can bring war or no one can use coercion on us,
04:34either the threat of the use of force or trade coercion,
04:39we need to have the deterrence in our hands.
04:42And we need also a first coalition of the willings on European security.
04:49Secondly, an integration of our industries of defense.
04:52And at the end, a European army.
04:54The United States has really bullied, now that you obviously talk about solidarity,
04:59it has really bullied the Danish government over Greenland to the extent that they said,
05:02if you don't sell it, we're going to put tariffs.
05:04It seems he's now walking away from the tariffs.
05:06But how is that acceptable?
05:08The scenes that we've seen over the past two weeks, is that an acceptable way of doing things?
05:12Certainly not.
05:13And still, there's a deal by NATO.
05:15He won.
05:16The pressure on Denmark and on Greenland must stop.
05:21Spain has been very clear since the very beginning.
05:23The future of Greenland belongs to the people of Greenland and to the Danish people.
05:29And the people of Greenland have said it very clearly.
05:31They want to remain as a part of Denmark.
05:34They want to remain as a part of an EU member state.
05:37And have you heard any information, Minister, about what this deal entails over NATO?
05:42You are an ally of NATO.
05:43Denmark is too.
05:44I suppose you would want to know what is it that NATO has worked at with the U.S. president.
05:49Do you know anything about this?
05:50Well, it's not NATO.
05:51It's the Secretary General of NATO.
05:53But he is NATO.
05:53Talking to one of the allies.
05:55We are all NATO.
05:56Of course they are NATO.
05:57Of course.
05:57And it's normal that the president of a country talks to the Secretary General of NATO.
06:02The president of Spain has talked.
06:03And bilateral will do it.
06:05But on this announcement, the only thing I know is the announcement that was made yesterday.
06:11I talked to the ministers of foreign affairs of other allied countries.
06:15They have the same information than me.
06:17Just the announcement.
06:18And I'm sure that wherever has been discussed will be brought to the Council of NATO.
06:24And just finally, Spain is a big player in Latin America.
06:27You pushed very hard for the trade deal of Mercosur, which is now finally through the finish line.
06:31You said geopolitical is very, very important to get it done.
06:34But, of course, the continent is also in a moment of transition because of the dramatic arrest and capture of Nicolás Maduro in Venezuela.
06:42How do you see this relationship going forward?
06:44And you've always talked about a democratic transition.
06:46That's not happening.
06:48Certainly, Latin America is the closest region to the European Union.
06:53And we have all to win to be together.
06:56Mercosur, it's really, really good news.
07:00As for Venezuela, what we want for Venezuela is a wide dialogue among the government and the opposition that will bring a peaceful and democratic solution from within the Venezuelan people, not from the outside.
07:15Are you concerned that President Trump seems to really care about the oil first?
07:19The oil and the natural resources of Venezuela belong to the Venezuelan people, and it's a part of their sovereignty.
07:26That must be part of this broad dialogue among Venezuelans as well.
07:30And just lastly, Spain was very outspoken when it comes to Gaza, and you were very outspoken about the idea of the two states' solution.
07:36Is there any hope that we are going to see that manifest in the next year?
07:41Because it seems to me this conversation has now really stalled.
07:45If we want peace, stability and security for everyone in the Middle East, including for Israel and Israeli people, we have to put in place the two states' solution.
07:55And that means also a viable and realistic Palestinian state living next to Israel.
08:01And in 2026, it seems to me it's lost momentum.
08:03I hope so.
08:04It's high time.
08:05If too much innocent blood has been there for decades, it's high time that we put in place the two states' solution.
08:15Well, Minister, thank you very much for joining us.
08:17Thank you.
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