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00:00Hello and welcome to the Traitors Uncloaked, the official visualized companion podcast hosted by me, Ed Gamble.
00:06We're at the start of the final week and we are building up to hopefully a brilliant end to the series.
00:11But before we get stuck in, you know the drill.
00:13If you haven't watched episode 10, then what are you doing with your lives?
00:16Head to BBC iPlayer to catch up now and then make your way back to Uncloaked.
00:21Coming up, we see the moment Banished player Matthew found out the identity of the Traitors.
00:25He'll be with us shortly to discuss his time playing the game.
00:28Plus, to unpack this episode, I'm joined by Celebrity Faithful Kate Garraway and Series 3 Faithful winners Jake and Leanne.
00:41Welcome. Welcome to all of you. It's lovely to have three faithfuls on the sofa today.
00:46Isn't it though?
00:47I know, triple faithfuls, some more successful than others. Is that fair to say?
00:52I think it's fair to say, yeah. I'm already hanging my head in shame.
00:56Look, you shouldn't, absolutely not, because Jake and Leanne, if there'd been sun-dried tomatoes in your series, you might have been flabbergasted as well.
01:03Oh, yeah. I mean, we are flabbergasted anyway, to be with you, Kate, so...
01:06Look, we've got loads to cover today, including the brand new dagger power and the impact that it had on Matty's banishment.
01:14We've got the terrifying Karas Hell mission.
01:16And of course, Stephen's fears about Rachel going up against him.
01:20But let's start with the end of the episode, Faraz confronting Rachel about his suspicions of her.
01:27Another huge nail-biting moment.
01:30Leanne, did you see Faraz suddenly becoming a traitor hunter?
01:33Not from Faraz, I'll be honest. I think we were all pretty shocked, wasn't we?
01:36But, I mean, he hit the nail on the head, didn't he?
01:38He was completely right with all of his theories.
01:40The worst thing he did was confront Rachel.
01:42I was gutted when he went up to her.
01:44Yeah, absolutely gutted. He should have kept it secret, and then Stephen should have kept it to himself as well.
01:50That's how I thought it was going to go.
01:52Because he told a group that included Stephen first.
01:55That's where he should have left it.
01:56We thought, we were hoping that that might be a moment to see whether Stephen turned or not.
02:03Yeah.
02:04I guess maybe what he was thinking was that if he laid all his cards out on the table, he's not going to get murdered.
02:09Because he's going to say, don't murder me tonight, as he did say.
02:12Yes, and it did make her think, didn't it?
02:14It's going to go one way or the other, but I think he's going to get murdered, and I'll be gutted.
02:18Well, the truth is this year, you look at Jessie, she was very, came forward about Stephen, and they didn't mess about.
02:24No.
02:24So, I am worried, if he'd have left it till tomorrow, he would have been all right, I believe.
02:28But as each episode's gone on, he's gained more and more confidence.
02:31He has, yeah.
02:32And I feel like he's got that confidence now, and he's just gone, you know what, I feel it, I think it, I'm going to say it.
02:37Yeah.
02:38Jake, as a former winner, what would you be doing if you were in Faraz's shoes now?
02:42Because he's accused Rachel.
02:44Tomorrow, I guess he's got to try and mobilise people behind his theory.
02:48Tonight in bed, he'll be sweating, but if he makes it to breakfast tomorrow, he needs to get the votes.
02:53The likes of Jack and Roxy, especially, they're the ones on the fence, and I think if he can convince them, Rachel could be in trouble.
03:00My heart's with Jade, though, because I feel like she's the Kate.
03:02Poor Jade, yeah.
03:04She's the Kate of the series from day one.
03:06All right, don't slug her off.
03:09Just Desperate.
03:11She has been through it.
03:12She has, too.
03:14Can I just say, I'm...
03:15She's not as bad as me.
03:18No one ever has been in the series, internationally or otherwise.
03:22She hasn't been on the money, though, to be fair.
03:24No, no, no, I mean in terms of being a faithful that's constantly attacked from day one.
03:29I had that all the way through until eventually they got me out, bless them.
03:34And I think she's going through that, you know?
03:38What's Rachel's plan of attack tomorrow?
03:40What does she need to do tomorrow now that she's been accused openly by Faraz?
03:44If Faraz does survive, she needs to be all right, well, look, you're still here.
03:49Maybe I'm being used, and people are going to keep you in the game and pin it on me.
03:54She needs to deflect and stay as calm as possible.
03:56If she doesn't murder him, then she can say,
03:59well, you accused me in front of everybody,
04:02so if I was a traitor, I'd have got rid of you.
04:03Yeah, exactly.
04:04Also, as well, Rachel's biggest thing she can do is point it at James.
04:10James went that round table.
04:12He was so smart, like, yeah, I've got the dagger, I'm going to do this.
04:15Matthew's going to go, he's a traitor.
04:17And then he almost went home.
04:19Yeah.
04:19Yeah, even though he had two votes, he was nearly the one who got punished.
04:23And now Roxy thinks it's James.
04:25So if I was Rachel, I'd be playing on that and speaking to Roxy, be our wook.
04:30So the murder is a toss-up between Roxy and Faraz.
04:33Yeah.
04:33So are you saying Faraz is the best move for the traitors, murder-wise?
04:37I think so.
04:38Yeah, I think so.
04:39Because I think he's going to take Rachel down.
04:41So Rachel's just like, it's all or nothing now.
04:43I'm just going to get rid of him and just be like,
04:45why would I murder him when he's out with me in front of everyone?
04:47I'm being framed.
04:48That's how I'd play it if I was Rachel.
04:49Maybe that's how it's going to go.
04:50Do you think differently, Kate?
04:52Do you think Roxy's the best move?
04:53Do you think that if they get rid of Roxy and I don't want her to go either, obviously,
04:57this is, you know, God, I sound like I did at the round table.
04:59But, Sandra Isomazo!
05:02No.
05:03The thing is, there's no heat on Roxy at all.
05:08Yeah.
05:08She's really confused.
05:10So maybe it would be worth keeping her because they could play her.
05:13Yeah.
05:13But if they murdered her, don't you think there's a chance that they can get into the confusion?
05:18They can say, well, listen, I was a traitor and you openly accused me and you're still here.
05:23And I don't know.
05:24Now, the episode ended with Stephen stressing about Rachel turning on him.
05:28Let's remind ourselves of how that unfolded.
05:31Nobody can stick up for one another at this point.
05:35And if you hear anybody repeat that I'm talking about you, it's because I have to, to protect our alliance.
05:42Right now, I'm worried.
05:46Maybe I've been blind because I have been actively not discussing Rachel if anyone ever brought her up.
05:54She might not necessarily write my name on her slate, but that doesn't stop her sowing seeds of doubt against me.
06:03If I did find out that she was going against me behind my back, then game on.
06:11This is what we're after.
06:15I knew that PAX was nonsense.
06:17Cracks in the PAX.
06:19Although, you know, in a way, isn't that what they've got to both do?
06:23I think Rachel's actually doing the right thing.
06:25I could see it coming for a while, to be honest.
06:27But he's just like, you know, I'm panicking now.
06:30I think what she's saying is that if his name comes up in a discussion, she can't block it.
06:36Defend him.
06:36She can't go, well, it's not Stephen because that's going to look bad on both of them.
06:40I agree.
06:41But the way she brought it up really sounded like, and just to give you a heads up, I'm taking the game for you.
06:46Basically, yeah.
06:47She was basically saying, don't worry if you hear me throwing you under the bus.
06:51It's just to save our alliance.
06:52It doesn't really make sense, does it?
06:53It doesn't make it okay to throw someone...
06:54You can't be like, heads up, I'm going to rob you.
06:56That's not how it works.
06:58Well, it kind of does if you're a traitor, though.
07:00Yeah.
07:00Because that's what they've got to do.
07:01So what's he got to do now?
07:03I think he's got to say, okay, well, I'll be doing it about you back then.
07:06100%, but silently.
07:08Yeah.
07:08She's told him, she's got to throw him onto the bus, basically.
07:11And he can use that information and then just carry on doing it.
07:14What's our guts saying about Rachel?
07:16Kate, do you think that she's going to try and turn on Stephen?
07:19I think she might do.
07:21I think, to be fair, I think if she thinks there's any danger she's going down, she will.
07:25Yeah.
07:26Yeah.
07:26Yeah.
07:27I don't know, do you agree?
07:28Yeah, completely.
07:29I think she's been defending herself for absolutely ages now.
07:33And I just think anything that gets in her way now, she's just going to try and burn it down.
07:37It's a paranoia.
07:38And I think that's what Stephen's now thinking.
07:40The paranoia of just her mentioning, I might have to mention your name in conversations.
07:44He's getting that paranoid.
07:45The trust there is kind of starting to go.
07:47Yeah.
07:48Before Matthew joins us and we talk about the brand new Dagger Power,
07:51we should touch on the Karas Hell mission.
07:53One of my favourites of the series so far.
07:55It's always funny when people are dizzy, right?
07:56And ripping apart teddy bears.
08:00Absolutely brutal mission, Leanne.
08:02How do you think they did overall?
08:03It looked exhausting.
08:04Yeah.
08:05And Kate told us about a million times she'd have projectile vomited within the first 30 seconds.
08:10Absolutely vomited everywhere.
08:12They smashed it though, didn't they?
08:13The girls at the end, bless them, I felt for them because they were so close.
08:16Especially at the end as well, shields count so much at the end.
08:19Oh my gosh.
08:20You can just see how desperate they were.
08:21Yeah.
08:22Jack obviously winning the shield.
08:23Yeah.
08:23He'll be over the moon.
08:24Now, Jack doesn't have much suspicion on him at all.
08:28In fact, he has not had one single vote at the round table in the whole game so far.
08:33And he's got the shield, obviously.
08:34Leanne, how important will the shield be to him at this point in the game?
08:38I think it's probably wasted on him.
08:40Because...
08:40Do you think?
08:40I mean, if you...
08:41No, I don't.
08:41Do you not?
08:42I think he would have been the perfect person to murder tonight because he's got no suspicion
08:46on him.
08:47He's never going to get banished because no one's voting for him.
08:49So true.
08:50Yeah.
08:50Yeah.
08:51So we should talk about Roxy, who's now separately questioned both Rachel and Stephen on whether
08:57they're traitors.
08:58Do we think her trustworthiness could be her downfall, Jake?
09:01I think she just doesn't want to believe because she's got friends with him.
09:05I had this similar experience with Mina.
09:06I was close with Mina.
09:07And in the back of your mind, you do got to suspect everyone, but you don't want to
09:12believe it's them because they're your close friends in there.
09:15So that could be a downfall.
09:17She's putting too much trust in, obviously, the wrong people.
09:20Obviously, her interrogation techniques were, are you a traitor?
09:22And they say no.
09:23And she's like, OK, that's proof.
09:25That's enough for me.
09:25Yeah.
09:26Maybe she was hoping there'd be a flicker in the eye or something.
09:29Yeah.
09:29You know?
09:30Well, the time has come to speak to Matthew about his time playing the game.
09:34But first, let's see how he reacted when he discovered the identities of the traitors
09:39shortly after being banished.
09:45I mean, obviously, a little bit disappointed because I wanted to get as far as I could.
09:49But I'm so chuffed.
09:50I'm so chuffed with how I got on.
09:52And I didn't, I didn't roll over.
09:55I gave him a good go at the round table.
09:58So I think I did all I could do.
10:00The odds were stacked against me, I felt.
10:02So it wasn't a surprise.
10:04So, well, there's seven people remaining.
10:06I think I'll give you the three who I think are the most faithful.
10:11Roxy, Jack and James.
10:14I think three traitors were picked at the beginning.
10:18And then I think that the first night they chose themselves, another traitor, to join them.
10:24And then we banished two traitors.
10:28And I know that there was a couple of times when there wasn't a murder.
10:33But I don't think they recruited.
10:35So I think there are two traitors remaining.
10:36I know I was gunning for Jade at the round table.
10:40I'm still not sure.
10:41So I might say Jade.
10:42But I think Stephen's a traitor.
10:44When I looked at his voting record, every time he voted at the round table, except for Maz, so except for one time, the person that he voted for got banished.
10:53So, again, that maybe meant it kind of, what I took from that was that he was just, he didn't speak first.
11:00He was waiting to see how the vote was going and then just going with the group.
11:05OK, I'm not ready, but let's go for it.
11:17Stephen?
11:18Yes?
11:18OK, wow.
11:21Uh, I mean, I did think it was him.
11:23Now I regret not saying what I thought last night at the round table.
11:27Very well played.
11:28I don't begrudge him at all.
11:31Like, he's played an amazing game.
11:33OK.
11:33Who else?
11:38Rachel!
11:41Wow.
11:43I mean, they deserve it.
11:46I don't think anyone really suspects Rachel that much.
11:49I think they both played an amazing game.
11:54And a very warm welcome to Matthew!
11:59Pleasure to have you here, Matthew.
12:01Gutted you've left, of course.
12:02You're an absolutely brilliant player.
12:04Our very first traitor in waiting.
12:06It's the first time anyone's pitched that hard to be a traitor and is just eagerly awaiting their recruitment.
12:13We'll talk about that a little bit more later on.
12:15But first of all, let's start with your reaction to who the traitors actually were.
12:20You had Stephen there in your mind.
12:22And what was it about him that made you suspicious?
12:24The first thing was when he said that he saw Maz and Roxy at the family tree.
12:31Yes.
12:32And then Maz left and I just did not believe that Roxy was a traitor.
12:36Yeah.
12:36So that was like a little thing that I was hanging on to.
12:38And then Stephen is the most lovely person.
12:41Yeah.
12:41And I think I said early on, I just can't see it.
12:44I just was like, he cleared up all the plates.
12:48How could he be a traitor?
12:49He's so nice.
12:50A traitor wouldn't do the washing up.
12:50No.
12:52He voted out both traitors.
12:54And just how those roundtables went, it would have been very easy just to go along.
12:59It was obvious it was going that way.
13:01I'll work them out.
13:02What you just said there, that you regret not bringing up Stephen at that last roundtable.
13:06Yeah.
13:06I think that could have saved you.
13:07I know.
13:08If you really directed it to him.
13:10Yeah.
13:10Because he's had a lot on him this whole time.
13:12It really could have saved you.
13:13I knew that the traitors had set this whole trap up.
13:18Yeah.
13:18And I knew that the traitors would vote for me that night.
13:21And I thought that Stephen was a traitor.
13:24But somewhere in the back of my head, you know, you're still not sure.
13:28And I thought, if I go after Stephen tonight, he votes for me and I'm gone.
13:33But actually, he was always going to vote for me.
13:36Yeah.
13:37Because he set up the whole thing.
13:39But that's so easy to kick yourself for afterwards, isn't it?
13:42Because you don't know all the conversations that have been going on elsewhere in the castle.
13:46And you don't have that vision.
13:48So in a way, I think you did play the perfect game.
13:51I'm going to disagree that you played the perfect game.
13:54Because you are here now.
13:57Oh, kick him out when he's down, Ed.
13:59No, I think you played it as perfectly as you could have done.
14:02No, no, no.
14:03I played the perfect game.
14:04You played the perfect game.
14:05Don't worry about it.
14:06Ignore it.
14:07Ignore it.
14:07You played an amazing game and it was very well thought through.
14:10But what you can't predict is James.
14:14Well, no one's had it.
14:16And you can never pre-plan for a James to come to the game and run up behind you on the first episode and start pointing at you saying traitor.
14:24Actually, for future players of the game, that is a strategy.
14:27Yeah.
14:28He was never going to be murdered.
14:29Because he, you know, that's half of your battle is don't be murdered.
14:33Like, so I think whatever, whether it was a strategy or whether that's just his character or not, that's a very interesting way to play the game and go in, create chaos, never be murdered.
14:45You actually said in a smart line, though, to Stephen, you said, a traitor will vote for me tonight.
14:52And for a second, I actually thought he wasn't going to vote for you because of that.
14:56Yeah.
14:57Yeah.
14:57He looked panicked, didn't he?
14:58Was that your aim with that?
15:01When you're saying things within earshot, you're saying, a traitor is going to vote for me tonight.
15:05Are you hoping that will change their votes, essentially?
15:07Oh, yeah.
15:07And did you feel that about Stephen?
15:09I just, it's so hard.
15:10It's just so hard.
15:11I know, it is.
15:12Yeah.
15:12Like, I also regret not speaking to James.
15:16I knew that James suspected me since day one.
15:18And maybe it's a character flaw, I don't know.
15:21But if someone doesn't like me, I'm not going to pander to them and trying to, oh, please be my friend.
15:26Please like me, you know?
15:28So with James, I just thought, well, fine.
15:30Think I'm a traitor.
15:31I don't care.
15:32Whatever.
15:32Let's get into talking about this roundtable because we've got to discuss the brand new twist in the game,
15:37the dagger and the double vote that it gives someone at the roundtable.
15:41Matthew, before I ask you about it, I want to hear from the others how they felt when Claudia introduced it at the end of the last episode.
15:49Yeah, I thought it was really good.
15:51And you kind of thought, oh, if you were a traitor now, this is a big decision, isn't it?
15:56And then we were sort of saying, would we want the dagger as faithfuls?
16:00Would we not want the dagger?
16:01I mean, it's just a bit of genius.
16:04Would you?
16:04Would you want it?
16:05I said no.
16:06I think then it's a bit similar to the seer.
16:09I think sometimes power can be the opposite.
16:12You think James loved it when he got given it.
16:15He was like, oh, my God, yes.
16:16Fuck, he's going on.
16:18Everyone else at breakfast going, oh, I hope it's not me.
16:20And James comes in, he's like, I want it.
16:22I want it.
16:22I know.
16:23He's like this excitable puppy.
16:25Do you know what I mean?
16:25And the traitors have been giving him treats and be like, who's a good boy?
16:28He's like, me, me, me.
16:30Fara's did want it as well, actually.
16:32But as soon as people start questioning him, because there's always suspicion.
16:35You're always going to think, what if a traitor has given it to themselves?
16:37So I just think, would I have a goal under the radar?
16:41It's just everything's so risky at this point of the game.
16:43I didn't know which way that Rachel and Stephen were going to go with it.
16:46I was like, I don't know who they're going to give it to.
16:47Are they going to give it to themselves?
16:49And then as soon as they gave it to James, I was like, that's the only way to go.
16:52Brilliant.
16:52As soon as James gets the dagger, surely you're thinking,
16:56I'm the only person who wouldn't have given it to James.
16:59So you should be the one who's in the clear that night.
17:01But then that's what they had planned.
17:03So then they're able to...
17:05It was pretty impressive, wasn't it?
17:06It was very...
17:07To hear them planning it and go through,
17:09and then Matthew's going to say this, and then James is going to do this.
17:12And that's exactly what happened.
17:14Yeah.
17:14I think the problem as well, faithfuls, I had this problem.
17:18You think everyone's Albert Einstein.
17:19You're always thinking, well, 200 IQ players, double, triple buffs.
17:23It was so obvious that it couldn't be you,
17:24but they started to doubt that,
17:26and the obvious then is the opposite.
17:28Matthew, how were you feeling going into that round table?
17:31I think it was realistic that the odds were stacked against me,
17:34but I wasn't going to go down without a fight.
17:36So I was going to give it everything.
17:39I think you did brilliantly.
17:41I think you did absolutely brilliantly,
17:43and it was very, very close.
17:44So there's proof that you did absolutely brilliantly.
17:47You sort of kept your powder dry,
17:49and then you just went for it.
17:52And also, you went for it in a kind of really sort of elegant,
17:56lovable way that meant that you went out
17:58kind of with your head held high, really.
18:01Absolutely brilliant.
18:02That's nice.
18:02Yeah.
18:03So it got pretty heated at the round table.
18:05Leanne, you were like Matthew in your series.
18:09Can you explain to us what it's like
18:10when you're having to defend yourself
18:12to everyone at the round table,
18:13and how difficult it is?
18:14There's nothing worse than trying to convince people
18:16that you're telling the truth when you're telling the truth.
18:18Yeah.
18:19It's so frustrating,
18:20but I think I would have thrived in season four.
18:22Everybody's arguing, rowing, fighting.
18:26I've been in my element.
18:27Star my hand.
18:29Sadly, you didn't make it through the round table.
18:31You got banished.
18:32But your reveal got quite the reaction.
18:35Let's remind ourselves of this.
18:38What are you thinking?
18:44The traitors will murder one of you tonight.
18:47Oh, my God.
18:50I am genuinely speechless.
18:54Good night.
18:54I'm sick of this game.
19:02It's only fun I say.
19:05It's a bit done.
19:08That might be the angriest I've seen Claudia off here around table.
19:11Thank you, Claudia.
19:11I'd say that as a compliment, yeah.
19:13A total compliment.
19:14And poor James.
19:15There's nothing scarier than being told off as a faithful Claudia.
19:18And that was a proper,
19:20you've let me down,
19:22you've let your school down.
19:24It was a real full on.
19:26It really was a proper telling off.
19:28And then James just immediately collapses on the table,
19:32like one of those toys where you press the bottom and the legs just go.
19:35Poor James.
19:36I mean, poor James.
19:37I know.
19:37Because it's amazing how hard he went after his belief that you were a traitor.
19:42And you love to see faithfuls absolutely gunning for what they believe.
19:45But when you know that they're wrong,
19:47it's only going to end like that, isn't it?
19:49He's totally gutted.
19:50I wonder if he can sort of maintain any confidence in the rest of the game.
19:56James thought I was a traitor and so he went with it.
20:01So you can't really begrudge him that.
20:02No.
20:03It'd be amazing though if James did get Rachel Stephen next.
20:06It could be like a redemption act.
20:08Yeah, 100%.
20:09But no one would believe him though now.
20:11That's the problem.
20:12That's the thing.
20:13I think that's why he fell the way he did.
20:15Because he thought, I'm a goner.
20:17Now, of course, Matty, you had quite the ride in the castle.
20:19Because in episode six,
20:21you won the opportunity to speak to the traitors.
20:23Another huge twist in this series.
20:26Did you want that power?
20:27When you went into the walled garden with your team,
20:29is that something that you wanted?
20:31No.
20:32I put myself at the very back.
20:34I was being the gentleman,
20:35lying to the woman to go first.
20:37Secretly hoping that by the time it got to me,
20:39that it would have been claimed.
20:41Because it's the same,
20:42whether it's the coffins,
20:43whether it's the seer.
20:44Yeah.
20:45It just sets you out as like,
20:47separate from everyone else.
20:48And there's always that danger.
20:51But now I'm like,
20:52I couldn't be happier that I got it.
20:54Oh, it was an incredible moment.
20:56Yeah.
20:56How many ideas did you go through in your mind
20:58of what to ask them?
20:59Yeah.
21:00It's like,
21:01what question can you ask the traitors
21:03that they would want to tell you the truth?
21:05Yeah.
21:05You know,
21:06their numbers are dwindling.
21:07We just got rid of Fiona.
21:08They're going to get the opportunity to recruit again,
21:10but they can't win together.
21:12So if they tell me
21:13who they're going to recruit next,
21:15the person's currently faithful,
21:18I could then get that person banished
21:20at the next round table.
21:21Oh, that's lame.
21:23Because I thought they would,
21:26it's in their interest to tell me the truth.
21:28And then I thought,
21:29you know what?
21:29Actually,
21:30I want to be a traitor.
21:31Yeah.
21:32So you asked them
21:33who they were going to murder next.
21:36They said Jessie,
21:37because she's under the radar.
21:38Which absolutely broke my heart.
21:41Yeah.
21:41I know I did what I did after.
21:44Yeah, okay.
21:45Yeah.
21:45No, but genuinely,
21:46I love Jessie.
21:47I think everyone loves Jessie, right?
21:49I love her to bits.
21:50Yes.
21:50So then you ask them to kill her.
21:53I know, that's not true.
21:55He didn't ask.
21:56He told them.
21:57Oh, sorry, demanded.
21:59Jessie's name was not,
22:00I did not bring Jessie's name into it.
22:02Well, they brought Jessie's name into it.
22:04You did then say,
22:05at the next opportunity,
22:06you might get an opportunity to recruit,
22:09turn that down,
22:10murder Jessie,
22:11and then at the next opportunity
22:12to recruit, recruit me, right?
22:14Why did you ask them
22:15to turn down the next opportunity
22:17to seduce and murder Jessie
22:20or murder the next person?
22:21A few reasons.
22:22They could recruit me immediately
22:24and then just get me banished.
22:26Yeah.
22:27Or if they murder Jessie,
22:28that's two murders
22:29because there wasn't going to be
22:29a murder that night.
22:30Yeah.
22:31There's another murder.
22:32It just buys me a little bit more time.
22:33So it's the time,
22:34it's the time thing.
22:34Yeah, but then also,
22:35it was just a way,
22:37I don't know,
22:37I just felt like,
22:38I felt like I just wanted to assert
22:40a little bit of power.
22:41Yeah.
22:42It just happened,
22:43to be honest.
22:43I kind of,
22:44but yeah,
22:44I just thought,
22:45a wee,
22:46tiny little bit of control
22:47and also,
22:48yeah,
22:48show them that I'm capable.
22:50When did Jessie find out
22:52about what you'd offered
22:53to the traitors?
22:54Was it when the episode went out
22:55or did you give her a heads up
22:57about what you'd said
22:57to the traitors?
22:58Yeah,
22:58I wanted to give her a heads up.
22:59I couldn't let her watch that
23:01because I love Jessie.
23:03I'm so sorry, Jessie.
23:05And actually,
23:05she was not,
23:07I wouldn't say delighted,
23:08but she thought it was great.
23:12Yeah.
23:12And she,
23:13she was very good about it.
23:15I think,
23:15like you say,
23:16she was going to get murdered.
23:18Yeah.
23:18It added a little bit more drama
23:20to her story.
23:23Because I think they were kind of being,
23:24when you asked them
23:25who you're going to kill next,
23:26they were being pretty truthful
23:27about who was in their mind
23:29for murder.
23:30And I genuinely had been saying,
23:31I want to win with Jessie
23:32as a faithful.
23:33I really trusted Jessie.
23:35Genuinely,
23:36you could not have
23:36picked a worse name.
23:39And it had crossed my mind
23:40to say,
23:42kill someone else.
23:43Yeah.
23:43Yeah.
23:43I thought,
23:44how cool would it be
23:45to be the first faithful
23:47to like,
23:48put a hit out on someone?
23:51Genuinely,
23:52I thought,
23:52kill James instead.
23:53Kill James instead.
23:54Yeah.
23:54I thought about it.
23:55And that would again,
23:56prove my ability.
23:59Your ruthlessness.
24:00Yeah.
24:00As a faithful.
24:00And then I just thought,
24:01I cannot do that.
24:03I love that you said,
24:04you wanted to win with Jessie
24:05as a faithful,
24:06but as soon as you got
24:07into that church,
24:07you said,
24:08kill Jessie
24:08and I want to be a traitor.
24:09The complete opposite.
24:11Did you expect them
24:12to go through with this?
24:13Did you expect them
24:14to agree with you
24:15and follow through on it?
24:16You can't trust a traitor.
24:18You can't.
24:19Because you sort of,
24:20you weren't offering
24:21much in return
24:22for them doing that, right?
24:24Because you couldn't protect them
24:25because you didn't know
24:25who they were.
24:26But I was offering them
24:27a willing recruit.
24:29Yes.
24:29Which is not always...
24:31I think that went against you
24:32because you shown
24:33that you were happy
24:34to get rid of Jessie.
24:35And they were like,
24:36whoa,
24:37he was happy to get rid of Jessie.
24:38He might be happy
24:39to get rid of us.
24:40But I was probably
24:41going to be murdered
24:42immediately.
24:43Well, I mean,
24:44I was up for murder
24:45that episode.
24:46I just think
24:46I would have been gone.
24:48It was such a clever way
24:49of using that power
24:50to be able to speak
24:51to the traitors.
24:51It was such good television.
24:53And the fact that you
24:53and Harriet did such
24:54wildly different things.
24:56Oh, wow.
24:57I can't think of
24:58a better two people
24:59to go in there.
24:59Because you're in there
25:00absolutely being like,
25:01I'd love to join you guys.
25:02And Harriet's in there going,
25:04I'm going to destroy you.
25:05I know.
25:05Literally ruin your life.
25:07Oh, my word.
25:07I know.
25:08That was the most
25:09amazing experience.
25:10How did you feel
25:11watching that backwatch
25:11in Harriet?
25:12Because you obviously
25:13wouldn't have seen
25:13until he got aired.
25:14No, no.
25:15Unbelievable.
25:15Insane.
25:16Unbelievable.
25:17In breakfast,
25:18Harriet told everyone
25:19the question.
25:20Whereas you decided
25:21to keep it close to your chest.
25:22Yeah.
25:22Do you wish you didn't do that?
25:24Do you wish you told the players?
25:25No, because it was like
25:26the ultimate test
25:27of delayed gratification.
25:28So I had a plan in place
25:29had they recruited me.
25:31Because I could have
25:32come down to breakfast
25:32and given two fake answers.
25:36And that would have
25:36taken the heat off me.
25:38But there was the chance
25:39that they might recruit me.
25:40And if that happened,
25:42then my plan was,
25:43so I go up,
25:45meet them.
25:46Hi, Rachel.
25:46Hi, Stephen.
25:47Come down to breakfast.
25:49I might have waited
25:49until the round table.
25:50I'm not sure.
25:51But then I would have been,
25:52okay, everyone.
25:53I know that I've kept back
25:54these questions that I asked,
25:56but I had to do that
25:57because of what I had planned.
26:00I asked the traders
26:01who they were going to recruit next.
26:03Obviously,
26:03had I told you the answer,
26:04the person wouldn't have
26:05accepted the recruitment.
26:07The person they told me
26:08they were going to recruit
26:08was Rachel.
26:11I love that so much.
26:13That is amazing.
26:14That is amazing.
26:15Oh, gosh.
26:16I'm so sad.
26:17I love it.
26:19I couldn't have,
26:20you know what?
26:21Actually, though,
26:21I don't know what I would have done
26:23because I genuinely
26:24had a really lovely relationship
26:26with both Rachel and Stephen.
26:27They're probably,
26:28actually,
26:29and Harriet.
26:30Although what happened
26:31with me and Harriet
26:31at the round table happened,
26:33we had a lovely relationship.
26:35but I don't know,
26:36I just don't know
26:37how I would have responded
26:37when I went up there.
26:38Yeah.
26:39I presume, Matthew,
26:41the words you wanted to hear
26:42at breakfast the next day
26:43were,
26:44okay,
26:45over to you.
26:45Your catchphrase, please.
26:47I'm flabbergasted.
26:48No, no.
26:49Not that one.
26:49Oh, wait a minute.
26:52There's been a recruitment.
26:54Oh, sorry, sorry.
26:56Okay,
26:56it's your own bloody catchphrase.
26:57Bless you for knowing me better
26:59than I know myself.
27:00I love that.
27:00Do that one again.
27:02As I threw to you with that,
27:04I thought,
27:05Kate's not been listening
27:06to the context yet.
27:07I've been totally listening,
27:08but I didn't,
27:09I didn't,
27:09sorry.
27:10Chug me the ball again,
27:11Eddie.
27:11Okay.
27:12I presume, Matthew,
27:13the words that you wanted to hear
27:14at that breakfast the next morning
27:15were,
27:16Kate,
27:16over to you.
27:17Somebody's been recruited.
27:21Well,
27:22no,
27:22actually.
27:24That's the opposite
27:24of what you wanted to hear.
27:28Well,
27:29I think you take on
27:30our first title of
27:31Traitorous Faithful.
27:33That'll always stand out
27:34as being like
27:34an iconic moment.
27:35Yeah, definitely.
27:36No matter if it's season 10
27:37or whatever,
27:38that'll always be like
27:39a killer moment.
27:40And they'll all be doing it.
27:41After winning.
27:41After winning.
27:43One of 15.
27:44One of 15.
27:45Series 5,
27:46they'll all be doing it.
27:47All the Faithfuls,
27:47they'll be standing up
27:48at breakfast going,
27:49I don't know who you are,
27:50but please recruit me.
27:52Seduce me.
27:53Seduce me.
27:54I can seduce me.
27:56Sadly,
27:57we've run out of time here,
27:58but the party continues
27:59in our bonus episode
28:00of Uncloaked on BBC Sounds.
28:02We're going to find out
28:03other questions
28:03Matthew considered
28:04asking the traitors.
28:05Plus,
28:06I'll be getting
28:06Jake and Leanne's
28:07final week tips
28:08on how to go all the way
28:09and be crowned a winner.
28:10You can scan the QR code
28:11on screen right now
28:13to listen.
28:13And for the first time ever,
28:15we are giving you
28:15the opportunity
28:16to ask your burning questions
28:18to the finalists
28:18and Claudia
28:19on Friday night's
28:20grand finale.
28:21Please send them
28:22to uncloaked
28:22at bbc.co.uk
28:23along with your name
28:24and where you're from,
28:25and then listen out for them
28:26in the final BBC Sounds
28:28bonus episode.
28:29A massive thanks
28:30to Kate, Leanne,
28:30Jake and Matthew
28:31for joining me.
28:32I'm Ed Gamble.
28:33Stay faithful.
28:38The Traitors continues
28:39tomorrow night
28:39at 8 on BBC One.
28:41Press red now
28:42for the return
28:43of multi-award-winning
28:44comedy thriller
28:45Black Ops.
28:46Join the chaos
28:46on iPlayer.
28:48Next tonight
28:48on BBC One,
28:49Harry and William
28:50are caught in the crossfire
28:51in Don French's
28:52new comedy
28:53Can You Keep a Secret?
28:56having fun!
29:02A massive
29:12you
29:12have fun!
29:14Very good.
29:15Thank you for it.
29:15You
29:15can't leave
29:16any Berlin
29:17or you
29:17can't leave
29:18or you can't love
29:20you
29:21can't leave
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