00:00Let's cross to Brussels now and speak to Gunthram Wolff. He's a senior fellow at the Brugel Think Tank.
00:05Hello to you, Gunthram. Thank you for speaking to Paris Direct.
00:09From where you are, is there a sense of urgency?
00:15Oh, yes, absolutely. So this is a topic, Greenland is a topic that is at the top of the minds of European decision makers here in Brussels and in the national capitals.
00:28I think so far the response was very firm. European leaders have stood together and have not issued declarations, but I think more importantly, they have started to act.
00:41And I think it's actually very important to send the signal of sending some European troops, German, Norwegian, French troops to nuke to Greenland to see what can be done to further reinforce the security of the island.
01:00I think it's also a pretty smart move to say that one wants to do that in cooperation or within the framework of NATO.
01:10But I think it is very clear that the message is that Europe cares. This is part of Europe.
01:17It, by the way, has a long history. It's hundreds of years that Greenland is part of Europe, if not thousands of years.
01:24It goes back and back, certainly to the year eight or nine hundred.
01:30So this is not sort of a place that is not interesting for Europe.
01:36And Europe certainly stands ready to to support it and to to defend it if necessary.
01:41Yeah, as you point out, Germany, Sweden, France, Norway, Netherlands, Finland sending troops there.
01:45What I read in the run up to this, though, Belgium was reportedly sending only a single officer.
01:50Belgium sort of downplaying this.
01:56Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. The numbers are very small.
02:00I mean, this is not about sort of having a military operation in place that could really sort of fight at this stage.
02:10But there is also no immediate threat. Right.
02:13I mean, there are no Russian or Chinese ships around the island about to invade the island.
02:19So this is this is simply not the case.
02:22So I think this mission is all about signaling.
02:25It's a political signal. It's about exploring.
02:27What would it take if one wanted to send 100 or 200 soldiers?
02:31I mean, let's remember also the U.S. presence at the moment is actually extremely limited on the island.
02:37It used to be very big in the Cold War.
02:40There's international agreements.
02:42There's cooperation agreements between Denmark, Greenland and the United States.
02:47If the U.S. thinks we need a much bigger presence to reinforce transatlantic security,
02:53I think there would be really great ways of finding a cooperative solution and increase again the U.S. basis on the island.
03:02But at the moment, there is no immediate threat.
03:04And so Europe basically responds to the concern of the U.S. president.
03:08And yes, it's increasing its presence and is sending a signal to Russia.
03:14But it's also sending a signal, of course, to the U.S. and to the domestic debate in the United States.
03:20And I think I'm actually very happy that several senators, several people in the United States, lawmakers have made clear that one doesn't simply attack an ally and occupy a territory.
03:34One works with the ally together.
03:37That's the best way of reinforcing our cooperation.
03:40And when we talk about Russia against Ukraine and how that upended the world order, what would it do to have a NATO member annex another NATO member?
03:52What impact would that be on the world order?
03:54Well, I personally think the risk to this NATO alliance is dramatic.
04:02So if the United States really was to invade Greenland and take over the island against the will of its democratically elected citizens, representatives against the will of its ally, Denmark,
04:17this would essentially mean the end of NATO as we know it.
04:22And so, yes, this would dramatically change the map.
04:26It would have repercussions for European security.
04:30And it would further reinforce the will in Europe to really make sure that we can defend ourselves on our own.
04:40I think Europe really has stepped up in the last years.
04:43And since you mentioned Ukraine, let's let's recall that by now it's really Europe that that sustains and and supports supports Ukraine.
04:52It's not anymore the United States.
04:54It's Europe defending the freedom of the Ukrainian people together with the glorious Ukrainian army.
05:00And when you read the statements coming out of Washington and the Trump administration, how do you how do you boil down the U.S.'s interest in Greenland?
05:06Is it national security, American national security, or is this about mineral wealth?
05:13So it's not about national security, because if the United States wanted to have more troops presence, it could do so in the framework of the agreement that exists.
05:24It's also not really about the the wealth of the of the island, because at the end of the day, it's actually very difficult to get get this wealth.
05:33It's under dozens of meters of ice.
05:37So this is not a good mining region, at least not in the next five to 10 years.
05:43So I think this is really about the personal wish of the U.S. president to probably go down in history as a U.S. president that has significantly expanded the territory of the United States.
05:57I think this is as simple as that. And the island does look very big, at least on the Mercato map, and it is very big.
06:04All right, Guntram. Thank you very much.
06:06Guntram Wolff joining us from Brussels. Thank you.
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