- 21 hours ago
Category
😹
FunTranscript
00:00Halfway point of the series and my goodness is the heat on.
00:03If you haven't watched episode 6, do that right this second.
00:06Head to BBC iPlayer to catch up and then you can come back here.
00:10Alright, spoilers are happening now.
00:13With that warning out of the way, I can safely play this.
00:17Of course, the traitor's siren as the second traitor of the series has been caught, the lovely Fiona.
00:25What's coming up, I hear you ask.
00:26We see the moment faithful Rhys met with traitor Fiona to find out the identity of the traitors.
00:32They'll both be here later to discuss their time playing the game.
00:34Plus, to dissect this jam-packed episode, I'm joined by celebrity faithful Charlotte Church and series one traitor, Amanda.
00:46Welcome. Welcome to Uncloaked, both of you.
00:49Thrilled to have you here on, of course, what I'm calling the Welsh special.
00:53Fantastic.
00:54Fantastic.
00:55We almost need Charlotte from series three as well.
00:58No.
00:59No?
01:00Absolutely not.
01:02I like Charlotte, but no, she isn't a faithful Welsh, is she?
01:07Now, we've got a lot to talk about today.
01:10Traitor Fiona turning on traitor Rachel and unfortunately losing the battle
01:13and faithful Rhys being murdered in what they described, very kindly, as a mercy killing.
01:19But first, we've got to start with the ending, the faithful winning the chance to talk to the traitors.
01:24What an incredible twist.
01:26In a series that has been twist after twist.
01:28Were we seeing anything like this coming?
01:31I mean, I think that it's really surprising from Matthew.
01:35Yeah.
01:35I wasn't expecting that sort of strategy from him and I don't think anybody else will.
01:41I think that's why it's clever.
01:42Yeah.
01:43My spidey senses were like, he's going to have to be recruited, but I wasn't expecting the first question.
01:48But then how he uses then Jesse is almost like, what is that?
01:53What is he doing there?
01:54Is it so that he can, so he knows they're going to go along with it?
01:58Yeah.
01:58So it's almost like a little breadcrumb.
02:01And the direct question of, you know, who are you going to murder next?
02:06And I want you to be truthful with me was very direct with that, you know?
02:10Yeah.
02:11Yeah, it was fantastic gameplay by him.
02:14Yeah, totally.
02:15I'm glad it was smart players who are going in and have been in there to ask the questions
02:19because I'd waste a question on how are you.
02:24Well, if I was a traitor, I'd hope someone would say like, what colour socks are you wearing?
02:27Or something like that.
02:30The cliffhanger at the end with Matthew waiting for the answer as to whether they would recruit him.
02:36Clearly the traitors are going to say yes.
02:38Do you think?
02:38I think Rachel might think, if you can do that blatantly, what could you do to us if we recruit you?
02:46Yeah.
02:47You're going to throw us under the bus.
02:48I think she might think that way.
02:50So I don't think it's a definite yes from her.
02:53If Matthew gets seduced, do we think he can trust the traitors?
02:57I think he can trust Stephen.
03:01I don't think anyone can trust Rachel.
03:03Yeah.
03:03But can they trust him?
03:05Now, we actually have Harriet's questions next week.
03:07We'll be able to see what Harriet asked the traitors.
03:10Do we have any sense of what she might have asked?
03:12No, not really.
03:13Because I think she knows that they're going to lie.
03:16She wouldn't ask them something like, where are you from?
03:18You know, what nationality?
03:20Yeah, where are you from?
03:21Do you live next door to each other?
03:25I don't know what she...
03:26She might ask them what their favourite kill was or something.
03:31Yeah.
03:31She might ask them what their favourite murder because then she might work out relationships of, you know, who was close to who.
03:38I think she'll ask more questions down that line than direct questions like Matthew.
03:44Yes.
03:44Because she thinks, she does think that they're going to lie anyway.
03:47She's not also going to try and plot and join the traitors like Matthew has.
03:50No, but she's going to wait till the end if she can.
03:53Yeah.
03:54She's got it sorted out that she's going to stay the quiet faithful.
03:58And then if there's those two left at the end, she's going to throw them into the fire pit.
04:04Yeah.
04:04So not even the bag, she's going to put the full traitor.
04:07Yeah, put them in the fire pit.
04:08Yeah, totally.
04:09Well, that's burning very red.
04:10The other huge aspect of this episode was, of course, secret traitor Fiona has blown up the whole game and she got caught.
04:19So she'll be with us shortly to talk about it.
04:21But we really have to just go back an episode briefly and talk about Fiona versus Rachel.
04:27Yes.
04:27When Fiona called out Rachel in front of everyone.
04:30Could you believe what was happening there, Charlotte?
04:32I just thought it was...
04:34Oh, iconic and wonderful.
04:38I absolutely adore her.
04:41She's so mischievous and really, like, beautifully representing the crones, which is what she said she's come in to do to represent older women.
04:52And I just think, oh, go on.
04:55She's got lots of spark and sass.
04:58Yeah.
04:59Did you think, Amanda, there was a chance that she could have beaten Rachel?
05:03I hoped there was.
05:04For us Welshies, you know, I'm just glad she had the balls, may I dare say, to go head-to-head outright with another traitor, you know, and show her that she wasn't going to just take it lying down.
05:19Now, there's so much to unpack with Fiona, but before her and Rhys join us, let's enjoy when the pair met after leaving the castle and Rhys found out who the traitors were.
05:26What was the reaction like when I didn't come down to breakfast?
05:42It was utter shock and disbelief.
05:44It's like, what's going on here?
05:47Because it just seemed like an unnecessary murder.
05:50I was just so amazed as to how people would take it, because I still think after, obviously, the banishment of Amanda and the whole Chester Chancellor deadlock, there was enough people that were convinced still that I was a traitor.
06:02Yeah.
06:02So the fact that it took for that to happen for you to realise I'm not, I remember just laughing and I just feel like, well, what are they going to do?
06:09Because I was just so excited to see how everyone's taken it.
06:12So, who are Rhys, do you think, are the traitors and how many do you think there are?
06:18If I'm to make a decision now, I'm still not even really convinced.
06:22Jack, Ellie, Rachel, and then I think they started with four, so obviously Hugo was one of them.
06:29So Hugo, Rachel, Jack and Ellie.
06:30I'm interested to know what you think I am first.
06:33So with you, I think you're a faithful, I think, but by all means, what are you, a faithful or a traitor?
06:42Well, I am, you ready?
06:48Yeah.
06:49A traitor.
06:51No, you're not!
06:52Yes, I am, I am.
06:55And I just was playing cat and mouse with you.
06:59Oh my God.
07:02Yes.
07:02And you got, you said about, you spoke about Hugo, you stabbed Hugo in the back.
07:06Did you not even think?
07:08Obviously, you have inklings on everybody, but I would never, I don't, if I'd had to put money on it, I would never have, that has thrown me off.
07:15So, Rhys, I obviously haven't been working alone.
07:20Oh.
07:21So, on the table, the first scroll.
07:24I'm going to take this.
07:25Take it.
07:26Oh, I'm scared.
07:27I'm very scared.
07:30You must be scared.
07:31I'm scared.
07:32You will be.
07:33Okay.
07:34This is nightmarish now.
07:36Oh God.
07:38Oh my God.
07:39Go on, boy.
07:42Oh my God.
07:43Okay.
07:43Steven.
07:47But do you know the funny thing about Steven is he just cannot lie.
07:55He'll get caught.
07:56Yeah, he'll get caught.
07:57He, I think he will.
07:58Okay.
08:01Okay.
08:01It's Rachel as well.
08:08I literally knew it.
08:09I knew it.
08:11Oh, so my whole carriage.
08:13Yes.
08:14You were surrounded.
08:16Oh my God.
08:17I knew it.
08:18I literally knew it.
08:19There he is.
08:21Oh my God.
08:22And Fiona and Rhys are with us now.
08:29Welcome.
08:30Welcome to Uncloaked.
08:31It's incredible to have you both here.
08:33Now, that was a great clip.
08:34Enjoyed watching that.
08:35Rhys, very shocked that Fiona was a traitor.
08:37Clearly.
08:38Why were you so sure that Fiona was faithful?
08:41Naivety.
08:41I've just written all over my face.
08:43No, I think I really try to clearly see the best in people.
08:47And people just let me down, don't they?
08:50It's fine.
08:51It's fine.
08:52Now, Fiona, not only are you a traitor, you are the first ever secret traitor.
08:58What an honour.
08:59Yes.
09:00An absolutely huge thing.
09:01Can you talk us through how you felt when Claudia gave you the red cloak?
09:04Oh, well, how I felt.
09:06There aren't words to describe how elated, thrilled, chuffed,
09:13all of these just wonderful endorphins were rushing through my brain.
09:19I didn't know what to say.
09:20Honestly, women of a certain age normally have ten.
09:23I don't.
09:24But if I...
09:25You're 28, aren't you?
09:26Yes.
09:26I keep forgetting I'm 28.
09:29But honestly, it was just amazing.
09:32Watching it, I was like, that is the best seat in the house.
09:37That's like secret traitor when you're literally playing your own game.
09:43You haven't got to worry.
09:45You're not in that sort of furrowed brow state of the faithfuls,
09:50of the like constantly besmirched faithfuls.
09:55But your secret traitor just seemed like...
09:57I was like, I can have a bit of that.
10:00I loved it.
10:01We obviously never got to see you making your decisions as the secret traitor
10:05in your little secret traitor, Heidi Hull.
10:07Were you just loving it or was there any...
10:09Absolutely.
10:11Absolutely.
10:13I had no qualms at all about putting people's names on the list
10:18because I was just giving them little fish to feed on, isn't it?
10:23They had to decide what to do.
10:26Yeah.
10:26Yeah.
10:27Can we talk through some of those shortlists?
10:28Because we never got to hear your thought process behind the shortlists.
10:31Right.
10:32So for the first murder, your shortlist was James, Nettie and Maz.
10:36Why did you choose them for the first murder shortlist?
10:38Well, Maz is so lovely, you know.
10:41So killer.
10:41He's so lovely, he had to go on the list.
10:45A mercy murder.
10:46It's another one.
10:49And James was just such a character.
10:52He was throwing names around from day one.
10:54So he had to go there on the list as well because he was causing chaos.
11:01Yeah.
11:02Which is a good thing from a traitor's point of view.
11:07So it was just giving them food for thought.
11:09And Nettie is so lovely.
11:12She's a teacher and I love teachers.
11:14My son's a teacher.
11:15But perhaps I just took it out on her because she was a teacher and it was a way of kind
11:23of just having a jab at my son, who I love dearly.
11:28Well, for the second murder, there was Ben and of course there was Rhys.
11:32There was.
11:33And Maz again.
11:34Well, I just thought it's better to double up.
11:37Yeah.
11:37It would confuse the traitors if you put the same names down twice.
11:41So that's how poor Maz had it.
11:45I didn't feel Ben would fetch much money to the table.
11:49So I put his name down as one to go.
11:53To one to consider.
11:56But you do need the money, don't you?
11:58Yes.
11:59Yes, you do feel that.
12:00But of course, with Ben as well, which is what caused a lot of chat about Stephen,
12:04was that Ben had said, if I get murdered tonight, then you've got to look at Ross.
12:08And you were in the library, as was Stephen.
12:11Was there a reason for putting Ben on the list because of that as well?
12:14No, not really.
12:16So you caused all that chaos by accident.
12:18Throwing darts in the dark.
12:20It was all the money.
12:22Rhys, I want to talk a little bit more about your game.
12:24You came under a lot of heat during the game, especially during the missions.
12:29Yes.
12:29In episode four, you were one of the faithful up for murder in the cages.
12:34But Fiona was, of course, the one protecting you, getting the skull.
12:39Protecting me.
12:40Getting the skulls.
12:41And you told Fiona to give away the skulls that she collected for you already.
12:45That put you under some suspicion.
12:47And you chose to eliminate your own shield in the Spear the Beast mission as well.
12:52I mean, I was half expecting you to try and vote for yourself at the round table.
12:55I think it wouldn't have been too far from what was coming.
12:58I think it was coming.
12:59Talk us through your game plan in those missions.
13:02Why did you do that?
13:02It's so hard to sit here and map out a game plan.
13:05You very much get thrown in the deep end, regardless if you're a faithful or traitor.
13:08It just happens.
13:09You just turn up there and you're like, oh, well, I'm here.
13:11So it's like you can have a map out of what you're going to do and it just all goes straight
13:14out of the window.
13:15And I remember just being a bit, that first night, being very like, well, this is a deep
13:19water and I've just got to learn to swim in it.
13:20And because everyone's doing the exact same thing.
13:22So I was appreciative of that.
13:23But very quickly learned that I don't have like a complex of if somebody's like accusing
13:27me of something, if I'm innocent, which I was, I just didn't defend myself.
13:31So I was very like, OK, well, I'll just be selfless then.
13:33I'll just take on the selfless things.
13:35Amanda, would you have used Reece's decisions like that against him?
13:38You could be honest.
13:39Yeah, absolutely.
13:40I mean, you were throwing yourself in the deep water, weren't you?
13:44And you weren't swimming.
13:45You were just going around in circles.
13:47But I would say with the skulls mission, I think you had so little chance of actually
13:54getting out of that cage that it makes sense to give the skulls away.
13:57How, I mean, can we talk about that mission a little bit?
13:59Because it's one of my favourite moments of the series so far.
14:02When everyone else is running around getting skulls, you're sat in a cage and Fiona's having
14:05a country walk.
14:06I don't know where she was.
14:07I don't know where she'd gone.
14:08I didn't see her once.
14:09I think where's Fiona is one of my favourite quotes of the whole series so far.
14:13And you're just sort of like pumbling around, holding one skull, just having a nice
14:17day out.
14:17I really did want to help him.
14:20I really did, Rhys.
14:21I'll never believe that.
14:23I'll never believe you.
14:24I did, I did buy.
14:25But I just couldn't find the skulls.
14:30You were in no rush either, Fiona.
14:31You did your best.
14:32I did my best.
14:33We're going to have many treasure hunts in Wales for you.
14:35I think, Rhys, you solidified yourself as a faithful at that final round table the night
14:42before you were murdered.
14:43Did that make you worry about what might be in store for you?
14:48Being in the kitchen that night after the round table with Amanda's banishment, I was
14:52just pleased that other things were going on.
14:54Obviously, there's people shouting across the room that other people are liars.
14:57It was very much, okay, well, someone else is talking and getting battered.
15:00So I was very, in that environment there, because, again, I put myself up for murder
15:04in the day.
15:05I didn't anticipate being murdered, clearly.
15:07Was like, okay, well, someone else can get a bit of their turn and we might talk about
15:12somebody else for a little while.
15:13I think it was your genuine reaction to the chest of chance.
15:17I'd like to think so, yeah.
15:17Because everything, again, I pride myself on authenticity.
15:20Everything that I felt in there was just what felt right at the time.
15:22Whether it's correct to do or not, who knows.
15:24But I think, and it was nice to see that they did talk about it in Turret, that it
15:28was, you need to get rid of me now, because people were almost the exact 180 on me.
15:33They're like, okay, there's definitely, definitely now.
15:35If it's not now, then when will he go?
15:37Well, that was one of the reasons.
15:39Let's remind ourselves of some of the other reasons why the traitor's murdered you.
15:43I think because we've been really, really brutal with so many killings, I think maybe
15:48a little mercy killing wouldn't go amiss right now.
15:51I think so.
15:52We can be nice up here.
15:53Put me down like the old family dog.
15:56Put me down like the old family dog.
15:57I'm limping around the kitchen.
15:59Put me down.
15:59Do you think, as a traitor, they might have a slightly warped view of what nice is?
16:04There's no way that there's a nice bone in that turret.
16:06Not a single, all three of you are like, laughing your heads up, enjoying yourself.
16:10This is brilliant.
16:11I'm sweating.
16:12I'm sweating.
16:13I'm crying.
16:14Like, no, not a chance they know what nice is.
16:16Do you have anything to say to Fiona after seeing her?
16:17I've said everything I need to say.
16:18Fiona, you said that Rhys was either a great traitor or a crap faithful.
16:27Yes.
16:27How does it feel now, sat next to Rhys on the sofa after you've murdered him?
16:32I was over there.
16:33Say it to me, Rhys.
16:34And the thing is, you were a traitor, so you knew he wasn't a great traitor.
16:36Yes.
16:37So you were just calling him a crap faithful?
16:38Just calling him a crap.
16:41Everything I said was true.
16:43I appreciate an honest lady.
16:45I appreciate an honest lady.
16:46Now, what was it like that moment?
16:48Because I think we all adored that moment when you finally got to reveal yourself to Stephen and Rachel.
16:53Oh, it was so funny, wasn't it?
16:54How did that feel?
16:55Because I did not think you would go in that hot to say, I've been doing your job for you for the last few days.
17:01She was on job from me.
17:02Yeah, I believe, haven't I been wonderful, was the first thing you said.
17:06I know.
17:06It was so Sally Field at the Oscars.
17:09At least she's modest with it.
17:11At least she's modest.
17:14So going in, initially, I wanted to keep the red cloak for as long as I could.
17:20I was a little bit apprehensive, thinking, well, I don't know what they've been discussing, so I'm going in cold now.
17:27It's very much as when somebody's been recruited.
17:29You are going in cold, because they've already got their bonds.
17:35But it was great when I was there.
17:37Charlotte and Amanda, did either of you guess that Fiona was the secret traitor?
17:41I did.
17:42You did.
17:42What gave you the clue?
17:44Because you were too joyful as a faithful.
17:48Because a faithful is normally a bit more serious, and I thought she's got to be the secret traitor, because she's enjoying this too much.
17:54And I was desperate for Claudia to put the red cloak on a Welsh person, I thought it's got to be.
18:00So, yeah, I just, you were a bit too joyful to be a faithful.
18:05Fiona, were you trying to help the traitors with your shortlists?
18:08Yes, but I don't think they thought that.
18:10No, they said, well, I think they were just annoyed about the whole secret traitor thing.
18:14Yes, middle management, as Hugo said, wasn't it?
18:17That's a brilliant saying, isn't it?
18:19Had you made your mind up about what they were like as traitors from watching them around the castle?
18:24Because obviously you knew who they were, they didn't know who you were.
18:27So are you observing them and trying to work them out during that period?
18:30Stephen is just a darling.
18:32He's an absolute darling.
18:34You could not love Stephen.
18:39He's so wonderful.
18:40Rachel is canny.
18:42Oh, my goodness, she's going to be the Queen of Ireland.
18:44I can see it, you know.
18:46She is an amazing player.
18:48Absolutely amazing.
18:50And I love Rachel to bits.
18:52But I'd seen that Rachel was the danger to me, or I'd felt.
18:57Yes.
18:58And I always go on my gut, so I listen.
19:01We do have to talk about where your downfall began.
19:03Yes.
19:05Being suspicious of Rachel's story about Amanda being an ex-detective.
19:09I did not see this coming.
19:11I did not know what was going to happen.
19:13Can you please talk us through what happened that night?
19:16And indeed, did you really think Rachel was lying about Amanda telling her that?
19:21No, I knew she was saying the truth.
19:26I absolutely knew she was saying the truth.
19:29And I trusted her explicitly.
19:31However, I'd had my suspicions on Rachel, and I thought that if anybody had taken your saying, if anybody's going to throw me under the bus, it's going to be Rachel.
19:45So it's best if you play poker and you have a rubbish hand, you're not going to keep putting money in the kitty.
19:54You throw the hand down, isn't it?
19:56And I thought, that's what I'm going to do here.
19:58I'm going to throw a grenade in the room, and let's see who comes out of it unscathed.
20:05Unfortunately, it was me.
20:06But it had to be done, I think.
20:14It would have been lovely for the three Celts to have made it to the end.
20:18But it wouldn't have happened yet.
20:18But it was never going to happen.
20:20Well, no, not with your behaviour.
20:23What about Rachel can't be trusted?
20:25You can't either.
20:27I think the thing with Rachel as well, it came across like she was annoyed.
20:30It was also the first time she was properly challenged.
20:33I think in the environment that you're in, when you're challenged for the first time, it's obviously the most uncomfortable.
20:37Because it's so new, having a point of thinking, regardless of what you are, is not nice.
20:41So then when perhaps someone did put a brick in her washing machine and see what happens, she was probably a bit of a bee in a bonnet.
20:46Yeah, especially not at the round table.
20:48After a round table, everyone's relaxing.
20:50The final round table, I didn't need the extra stress.
20:54And the tower was amazing that night, the turret.
20:57Yes.
20:58And you know, Stephen is such a darling.
21:01And he was so uncomfortable.
21:03I honestly think he thought there were going to be two women scrapping here.
21:08I think he had one eye on where's security, I think.
21:13Did you consider speaking to Stephen first before you went up against Rachel?
21:17No.
21:17And the reason being, is that I think if I'd said to Stephen, he would have talked me out of it.
21:25Yeah.
21:25And I didn't want to be talked out of it.
21:28I thought, no, I'm going to do this and it's got to be done now.
21:31If not now, then when?
21:32Yeah.
21:33Let's jump to the round table, your final round table, Fiona.
21:36Did you think you might be able to survive?
21:38If I had to put a bet on myself, it'd be 50p each way.
21:42I thought, if I vote for her, then it's ruining her game straight away.
21:49If I don't vote for her, people are going to have suspicions anyway.
21:55And so I think I voted for Ross.
22:00You voted for Sam.
22:01Sam.
22:01Ross had gone about three days before.
22:03Oh yes, of course he has.
22:04Ross is minding his own business.
22:07He's gone home.
22:08Now, Fiona, are you prepared for post-traitor's fame?
22:12Do you have social media?
22:13Instagram, which my son is running, because I haven't got a clue with anything like that.
22:19But somebody told me that not to have it on my own mobile phone to get a burner phone.
22:27So I did say to them, but I thought it was only drug addicts and gun dealers that had burner phones.
22:34And they said to me, no, you need one for your social media.
22:38So I went into town, into a shop, and I asked for a burner phone.
22:43You asked for a burner phone?
22:44So the man went into the back of the shop, and I was just looking around.
22:51And two police officers turned up then and said to me, have you asked for a burner phone?
23:00And I said, yes.
23:02The man's gone up the back to get it.
23:04And they said, can I ask you why you want a burner phone?
23:09I said, I need it for social media.
23:11And they said, so why have you asked for a burner phone?
23:15Why don't you ask for a pay-as-you-go phone?
23:19They're clearly trying to set you up, Fiona.
23:20Yes.
23:21I mean, do I look like the type?
23:23Takes all sorts.
23:25You didn't look like a traitor, Fiona.
23:29Sadly, we've run out of time here, but that doesn't mean it's all over.
23:32We'll be continuing the chat in our bonus episode of Uncloaked on BBC Sounds.
23:37You can scan the QR code on screen right now to listen.
23:39We're going to discuss the questions in the Smoke and Mirrors mission and how those votes might affect the players.
23:45Plus, if we had the chance to ask a question to the traitors, what would we want to find out?
23:50If you think you've got what it takes to be a traitor like Fiona, good news as Casting for Traitors Series 5 is open.
23:56Head to bbc.co.uk forward slash take part to apply.
24:00A massive thanks to Charlotte, Amanda, Fiona and Rhys for joining me.
24:02We'll be back next week after episode 7 on Wednesday of The Traitors to unpick the answers to Matthew and Harriet's questions and so much more.
24:11I'm Ed Gamble.
24:12Stay faithful.
Be the first to comment