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00:00One of the great joys in life is to have a wonderful night's sleep. But how do we
00:18do that when we're next to a partner who snores, tosses and turns, has night terrors,
00:23or even talks in their sleep? According to Cynthia Zak, we tiptoe into another
00:27room and sleep by ourselves. She explains why and gives rituals to a spiritual sleep
00:33quest in her book, The Joy of Sleeping Alone. Welcome, Cynthia.
00:37Thank you, Regina.
00:39And you're from Argentina, and I do tango, and I'm so used to your accent and being
00:44around Argentines. I just love your energy.
00:46Yeah, Argentina is beautiful. I'm from Córdoba, Argentina.
00:49Oh, you're from Córdoba.
00:50Yeah, Córdoba is like in the heart of the country.
00:52Yeah, yeah. I have never been there, only Buenos Aires.
00:54Yes, this is a mountain town. It's beautiful, yes.
00:58Wonderful. Well, okay, so give us a little bit of background on yourself, because you're
01:03new to our audience, about yourself and how you ended up becoming not just fascinated,
01:10but making the notion of a good night's sleep your dharma.
01:13Yeah, well, I'm from Córdoba, Argentina. I've been searching, I'm like, the yearning for
01:22spirituality since I'm very, very young. I started with books, reading science fiction
01:27and stuff. Like, there's more than we see. There's more than we see. There's more than
01:32this touchable, like, material thing. So I started getting into spirituality very, very
01:38young. I get into the yoga tradition very young, and Hinduism, and Buddhism, and Sufism. I've
01:49practiced for 30 years the Sufi way, the dervish way, the twirling and turning, and the zikar,
01:58the mantras, and Judaism, and Kabbalah. Everything is the same, Regina.
02:08It all comes down to the same, in the end.
02:10Yeah. At the end, it's like, we're talking about the same one love, and connection, and
02:17interconnectness. And so I've been, like, exploring. From that, I studied journalism,
02:24communication in Argentina, in Cordoba, Argentina. And I moved to Europe, and I've been writing
02:32for my whole life. And I published five books already.
02:37Congratulations.
02:38Yes. And I've been working with children for a long, long time. I put together songs and music
02:46and mantras and meditation for children. So I'm a musician. I've been playing music for my whole
02:54life. I put together all this body of music, which is pure medicine. Music is the highest form of
03:04medicine.
03:05Yes. Sound.
03:06Pure vibration.
03:07Frequencies, vibration. With the right wording, you have something very powerful.
03:14Mm-hmm. Very healing.
03:15Very healing. And I've been working with families and children for 30 years. I create
03:20a system where you can have this content, but also I teach that all over the world, transmitting
03:32this mindfulness and music and all this component to teachers and health professionals. So I've been
03:44in this for a long time. I'm a mother of three. I'm about to be a grandma.
03:48Congratulations.
03:49Oh, so.
03:50Which is really, really exciting, seeing new generations. And I keep working with children
03:56almost every day and families. I'm a birth and postpartum doula. I'm also a death doula,
04:05which is assisting souls coming in and going out.
04:09Yeah. And supporting the system around the person that depart and the ceremony of that
04:17and honoring this untouchable energy, but so present anyway. So that's a little bit of my
04:23background. How do I get to this book? I start sleeping alone, Regina, and I start liking it very much.
04:31I think a lot of people who've slept alongside another person for a good part of their life
04:37and finally sleep alone feel the same way. And many people in our audience that are watching
04:42this right now sleep alone. And so I wanted to talk to you about that, kind of get into the history,
04:50this whole notion, because there's stigma around that, especially if someone is in a partnership
04:56or married, and they say, I really would like to sleep in my own room, in my own bed.
05:03Yeah.
05:04A lot of hurt happens. Not only that, here you have judgment from society. Maybe the kids,
05:10oh, mom and dad are having troubles. They're not sleeping together anymore. So there's stigma
05:16around it, if you're in partnership. If you're alone, okay, no big deal.
05:19Yeah.
05:20So we'll get into all of that, but let's talk about the history of it, how we used to sleep
05:25once upon a time when we were much more feral as human beings, when we were in our developmental
05:32stages as humans. So let's talk about how people used to sleep, because I love the history you put
05:37in the book. It's kind of funny, actually. It's like, really?
05:40It's something that we never think about. And when I started the research for the book, I said,
05:46wait a minute, do we always sleep in beds with mattresses and for things and the pillow? No.
05:54So let's go back to when we were at one with nature.
05:58Yeah. We used to sleep up on the trees.
06:01At first human.
06:02I actually, when I read this, I thought, oh, that's interesting.
06:05Yeah.
06:06Because through this other person that I've interviewed a long time ago, he's writing about
06:12the development of species of human beings that have vampiric qualities.
06:17Oh, wow.
06:18And we were looking into the history of them.
06:20Interesting.
06:20And he went all the way back into China when they were sleeping in trees. People were sleeping
06:27in trees. That's the first I'd heard of it.
06:29Yeah.
06:29So we would crawl up and choose a branch.
06:31Yes. Well, the first humans, like 20,000 years ago, 30,000,
06:3630,000 years ago, the Homo sapiens start sleeping on trees because before the fire,
06:44that's the event that changed everything for humanity.
06:49Mm-hmm.
06:49So with the discovery of the fire, these people sleeping on the trees, imagine sleeping on a
06:56tree. It's moving all the time. It's unstable. There's a lot of things.
07:00You don't get a good night's sleep.
07:01No.
07:01You have to have one eye open while you're sleeping.
07:04And they used to sleep on, like, tandems. Like, this group sleep three hours while the others are
07:11watching.
07:12Mm-hmm.
07:13So you really don't get into the five stages of dreams that we need every night.
07:20Mm-hmm.
07:20The five times that we have our REM, the very rapid eye movement.
07:26Mm-hmm.
07:26So these humans, with the fire, feel safe. It's like, oh, wait a minute. They're not going to
07:34eat me because the fire protect me. There's not going to be all these animals that wants to eat me.
07:40Mm-hmm.
07:40And they start going down.
07:42Mm-hmm.
07:42And when they start going down, they start sleeping longer.
07:46Mm-hmm.
07:47And they start dreaming more and remembering the dreams. And a whole other, uh, qualities and
07:58concepts show up for humanity.
08:00You, you say in your book that it's an evolutionary leap.
08:04Yes.
08:05From sleeping in branches, in shifts, with one eye open.
08:08Yeah.
08:09Just for your own survival, if you were in an area particularly where you could be preyed
08:13upon. And then sleeping on the ground with the safety and warmth of a fire, keeping the animals
08:18away. And then you go into deeper sleep. And now we have an evolutionary leap in consciousness.
08:23And I would assume our mental functioning, our intellectual capacity as well.
08:28Everything, because we are not in this survival mode so intense. Uh, so the parasympathetic
08:36systems are like, I have goosebumps when I said that, because it's like, oh. And then these first
08:43humans with the fire start discovering that there's certain plants and herbs that if you sleep on top
08:51of that, they protect you against insects and bites and mosquitoes, like these powerful plants.
09:00So they start putting these plants on top of each other. And we have the first mattresses.
09:06It's interesting. Yeah. And I would think too, at that point, once they're starting to go through
09:11the various stages of sleep, first of all, sleep deprivation, it's, sleep is one of the most,
09:19if not the most important thing next to breathing we can do for recovery of ourselves throughout our
09:24body and our brain. So people must have lived very short lifespans back in that time when they were
09:31not able to sleep full, a full night's sleep. Yeah.
09:34Imagine, but, but it's, it's, I love to like really go back in time and see that
09:40these people discovering a longer night of sleep.
09:44Yeah.
09:45And the protection of the fire, and then they are not beaten all over from mosquitoes and insects,
09:52and they start dreaming more.
09:54Mm-hmm.
09:55And evolution happened, and then they start discovering more and more ways to be more
10:00comfortable during the night.
10:02And you say this was roughly 77,000 years ago is when the first, quote, mattresses emerged from your
10:09research. And granted, it's not all over the world, but there's evidence of that.
10:12Yes. Yes. And there's a lot of evidence of that.
10:14Yeah.
10:14And the archaeologists are discovering more and more these first humans able to
10:23produce. And for this leap in evolution, there's other concepts or other things happening also.
10:31The agriculture and other medicine plants are coming into the picture
10:36to produce more awareness of ourself and who we are. And the questioning, why are we here?
10:47Mm-hmm.
10:47Why? What is this planet? What is this reality? What is this sleep and awake moment?
10:57Mm-hmm.
10:58And just being in the luxurious position of being able to go into REM enough that you can recall
11:03dreams in the morning. Yes.
11:06Yes. Yeah.
11:07So that's part of the evolution. It's so beautiful. And I was like, oh, this is what happened
11:13for us to be here and to understand hormonal levels during night or during day.
11:19Right.
11:19And how to balance and where we are now in the sleeping
11:23Yeah. And there's a lot of research on hormonal cycles, men and women both, in terms of our sleep.
11:31And people can look that up. There are plenty of books on it. So here we create our first mattresses,
11:36which are layered with herbs and things. And I assume other leaves and straw, whatever's around,
11:42whatever grasses are around, right? And then, in fact, at what point did we start using animal hairs?
11:49And the animal skin is also part of this evolution. Like, I can say, simultaneously or parallel,
12:00like it was happening. They start, like, cooking the meat. They have the fire. Now they discover that
12:08they can, the meat, you can eat the meat cooked, not raw. Right.
12:12And then they discover they have these skins that they start treating the skins in a way that they
12:19don't get, like, rotten. Yeah. Cleaning them and drying them and, yeah.
12:23Yes. Treating them.
12:24And you see the first depiction, like the pictures of the first humans already covered with the skins of
12:31animals that they put it on the floor. Mm-hmm.
12:35And the sleep. And the warmth and the, and the easiness and the facility of,
12:43I'm not going to be eaten, I'm warm. Mm-hmm.
12:46They start creating a new, a new mind. Mm-hmm.
12:52Like I said, a new brain. A new evolution of society.
12:55Yeah. And emotions, too. Emotions are more, like, clear.
12:59And the art start happening more and more. Yes.
13:02And I know archaeologists and anthropologists has a lot more of this insight, but it's like,
13:09okay, wait, this is so important in, in our, like, human history.
13:14Mm-hmm. Okay. So this is going to be a little quirky because it just popped into my head. So
13:20horsehair mattresses. So I was staying at a manor in England. Okay.
13:25Someone's home and they had a lot of bedrooms and old, old rugs and,
13:29Yeah. And we were sleeping on a mattress made of horsehair. Yeah.
13:33That mattress had been around forever. Yes.
13:35I thought, really? Yes.
13:36We're sleeping on horsehair. Yeah.
13:38I prefer memory foam, but. Yeah.
13:42But we were sleeping on a horsehair mattress. This was only a few years ago. These exist. Yeah.
13:46But, okay. So when you look at that super high-end mattress company, Heston's, I think it's called.
13:52Yeah.
13:53Um, they layer horsehair still in their mattresses. Incredible.
14:00What is, do you, do you happen to know what is it about horsehair? Why we use this to begin with?
14:06Why it continues to be used? I just find it kind of quirky after.
14:10That's interesting.
14:12Yeah. After all the science and research that the highest-end mattress, they'll cost 30, 40,
14:1650,000 dollars, have horsehair in them. Yeah. Because we're still using animal parts, like the
14:22goose, the goose to cover. Yeah, the feather.
14:23The feathers, the goose. This is all animals.
14:26So do you think it's superior in its ability to last? I mean, last in the end is energetic.
14:34It's energetic. It's the vibration. It's energetic. It's how you mix this animal parts with synthetic
14:44fibers and synthetic things, and you create something more perfect, you know? And also,
14:51it's convenient. Like, when you travel, people were traveling the roads. In this country, in America,
14:58to go from one point to another, you can stay on the road for months, you know, to create new, new,
15:07new places, new towns. You carry your mattress with you. You carry your skin.
15:14That's true. Your sleeping roll.
15:15Yeah. Your sleeping rolls, your skins.
15:17Yeah. And the, and the history of how humanity sleep until now is fascinating.
15:22It is.
15:23Different cultures to sleep. You have the tatamis. You have the futons in Japan, in Asia.
15:30And you have those little wooden headrests in Africa. I tried that one time, and I don't
15:36understand that one at all. I mean, it hurts. But you're right. Every country, every indigenous
15:43population has its own way of sleeping. And in the West, we are so spoiled. It's like we're going
15:49back to the womb. Yeah. Well, that's, you, you just said something super interesting,
15:55because it's that. It's when we sleep, we're going back to the womb.
15:58Yeah.
15:59And the first, and I said that in the book, the first water mattresses are so ancient. Like,
16:08thousands and thousands of years ago, the, even the Phoenicians create the, with the skin, they inject
16:16water. And you have the water mattress that gives you this kind of uterus, warm feeling.
16:23Yeah.
16:23Yeah.
16:23Like, you're sleeping in, but you're still moving.
16:26Yeah. I had a water bed years ago.
16:28It's like...
16:28Yeah. The water bed, like, floating on this.
16:31Yeah.
16:32It's fascinating.
16:33It is fascinating.
16:34Okay. So now we move to modern history, okay?
16:37Yeah.
16:37And we're looking at 19th century. We're looking at plagues.
16:41Yes.
16:41We're looking at doctor's recommendations in the day.
16:45So bring us up to speed of what happened when, now, we slept separately when, when we were,
16:52when we had our little mats. And in many cultures, they still sleep separately.
16:55Yes.
16:55You have your own mat.
16:56Yes.
16:56You sleep alone.
16:57Yeah.
16:58Still, to this day.
16:59Yeah.
16:59And in many cultures also, you sleep all together, all the families together. And it has to do with
17:05economical reasons and, and access, weather, and access to more spaces in the rooms. You go to
17:14Latin America and you can see still a lot of families sleeping. The whole family sleep together.
17:19Just all sleep together.
17:20There's no other way.
17:21Yeah.
17:22There's no other space.
17:23There's no other mattress.
17:24Yes.
17:24Yes.
17:25And you adapt to that.
17:26Yeah.
17:27But I love this quote that is in the book, as every person has to have his own plate or her own
17:35plate and a spoon, everybody should have their own bed. That was the recommendation from doctors at
17:44that time.
17:45Right. So that they wouldn't spread the plague.
17:47Yeah.
17:47And now, so when did mattresses as we know them, where it's down to a couple sleeping together,
17:53start coming in to society?
17:55And doing this research on the history of the bed, I said, well, when, when that happened?
18:02And you go into industrial revolution and I said, oh, wait a minute. For economical reasons,
18:12they put the couple or marriage people together in the same bed because both needs to go out
18:22to work. And females have to wake up at the same time than men.
18:26Mm-hmm.
18:27And if I have a different cycle, females, we have a different cycle, circadian rhythm,
18:33completely different. We start like adapting to a male circadian rhythm.
18:39Mm-hmm.
18:40Waking up at the same time and performing as a male, this, and working as a male,
18:48also taking care of the family and the kids.
18:50Mm-hmm.
18:50And then we are there sleeping together.
18:54Mm-hmm.
18:55Western especially, Western World Industrial Revolution.
18:59Yeah.
18:59And then you sleep together and then it's like you don't question that. It have to happen. You sleep
19:06with your partner, no matter what. I remember my parents, and I was always like kind of fascinating
19:14with that. They have a long pillow. I don't know if you ever saw that.
19:19Yes. One long pillow and they slept on the same pillow.
19:23It was like, for me, it was like, what is going on here?
19:27Yeah.
19:27Yeah.
19:28Not only the same bed, the same pillow.
19:31Yeah.
19:32It means that every time you move your head or if you want to kind of move your pillow.
19:37No. So, women for the first time are sleeping alone because the doctor sits doctor's orders
19:44during the plague. You don't want to spread it, right?
19:46Yes.
19:46Yes.
19:46Okay. And there was a phenomena that happened, which was that women were actually either overtly
19:54or secretly happy that they didn't have to respond to every sexual advance of their husband,
20:01just because he's lying next to him at night in the same bed.
20:03Yeah.
20:04And this created a little revolution of its own kind.
20:07Yeah. The women power and the women empowerment of decisions and their own mind.
20:16But it's super interesting, Regina, because...
20:19Because the plague didn't last. We're back in the bed with each other.
20:22Yes.
20:22Yeah.
20:23But there's a subtle, subtle energetic change when you sleep alone.
20:30Mm-hmm.
20:32And I think that needs more and more research on that because there's something happened
20:36with females when they sleep alone. And this empowerment is from the inside out.
20:43It's like very, like, inner transformation and have to do with sleeping alone.
20:53Mm-hmm.
20:54I said non-contaminated with the other person.
20:58Mm-hmm.
20:58Dreams, sounds, smells, fluids.
21:03Mm-hmm.
21:03You see? And then women start, like, getting more power.
21:07Mm-hmm.
21:08And talking about rights and female rights and voting rights, and they have to do with
21:16these periods of, wait, I'm going to sleep alone.
21:20Mm-hmm.
21:21By doctor orders or because I'm seeing...
21:24So subtly, when they were in that position thinking, I can sleep undisturbed, I can have
21:29my own dreams, and I can wake up feeling more refreshed and remember these dreams, even,
21:34which is harder to do when you're sleeping next to someone, no doubt about it.
21:37Yes.
21:38Absolutely.
21:38Yeah.
21:39Because the other person has their own things going on.
21:42Absolutely. They have their own, yes, exactly.
21:44Yeah. And their own, like, dreams and situations and thought processes and emotional processes.
21:53Mm-hmm.
21:54But this is, we're talking about, like, certain, like, the Western, mostly Western civilization.
22:02Right. Not the rest of the world and not the indigenous populations.
22:05No. And even those, like, religious Jews, they're always asleep separate.
22:12Mm-hmm.
22:13And when you go into the meaning of that and the symbolism and the scientific reason, it's
22:26unbelievable. It makes so much sense.
22:28Mm-hmm. Well, it, I mean, it does on so many levels. Now there's so much research.
22:33So going back to the women and sharing a mattress back to the Roman times, you write that there was
22:40the marital bed.
22:40Yes.
22:41And that was for procreation. That was for sex.
22:43Yes, exactly.
22:44But they didn't sleep together. That wasn't for sleeping together.
22:47Bed is for sex.
22:48For sex, yeah.
22:49Bed is for sex.
22:49Yeah.
22:50And the Romans, uh, really go into the beautification of this space for sex.
22:58Mm-hmm.
22:58Mm-hmm.
22:59Yeah.
23:00You know, the details and the meaning.
23:02The rituals and, yeah.
23:04And as you say, beautification.
23:06So it was very elevated and there was a proper space.
23:08But then everybody goes back to their own bed to sleep.
23:11Which, which is super interesting also because it's the, the sexuality is always related with bed.
23:20So when you think about bed, you think about sleeping and sex.
23:23Mm-hmm.
23:23Like the two things that you do in bed.
23:25Yeah, yeah.
23:25Basically, you know?
23:26Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:27And when you start getting into, wait a minute, if I sleep alone, the, the sensuality, the sexuality,
23:36it's more a decision.
23:38Mm-hmm.
23:39You, you mentioned that before.
23:41Yes.
23:41It's like, it's not happened because I'm next to this person.
23:44Right, right.
23:44We're going to talk about that.
23:46We're going to discuss.
23:47It's going to be a joint decision.
23:48Yes.
23:49Yes.
23:49Yes.
23:50And so one of the things that kind of surprised me coming up to today's time, because we're,
23:55we're kind of there, is, um, what you wrote here is there's some stats.
23:59And it's like, really?
24:00Yeah.
24:01We're, this is by the National Sleep Foundation?
24:04Mm-hmm.
24:06And it says here that 63% of millennial couples and 62% of Gen Z couples sleep alone.
24:14Yeah.
24:15Really?
24:16I mean, when I, I'm a boomer, when I was young, everybody slept with their, their mate,
24:21their husband, their boyfriend, whatever.
24:22Yeah.
24:22You always slept together.
24:23Yeah.
24:24So what's going on there?
24:25Is this true?
24:26It is true.
24:28Two thirds of the younger population sleep in separate spaces.
24:30Yeah, it is true.
24:32First of all, the marriage and the, uh, the core have, have like, like living together.
24:38Yeah.
24:39Uh, it's changing.
24:40Yeah, it is.
24:42Uh, young females has much more economical power.
24:47Mm-hmm.
24:47They're much more independent.
24:49They're more themselves.
24:50Mm-hmm.
24:50They have their own voice.
24:52And they decided like, wait, either we have two bedrooms.
24:56Mm-hmm.
24:56And I see it on my own kids.
24:58Yeah.
24:58Interesting.
24:59Yeah.
25:00Like, let's have two bedrooms.
25:01Mm-hmm.
25:02Um, or just live in different houses.
25:08Yes.
25:08Yeah, yeah.
25:09And it's so interesting in this process of, okay, we see each other, we enjoy each other,
25:17but we don't have to sleep together every night.
25:20Mm-hmm.
25:21And listen, it's beautiful to sleep with your partner.
25:24Mm-hmm.
25:25And in, in any way I'm promoting sleep divorce or sleep by yourself all the time.
25:30What I'm talking in this book is your night, at least once a week, you can transform your night
25:39in a spiritual retreat.
25:41Mm-hmm.
25:42You don't need to go to 40 days Vipassana or going to Tibet.
25:46Mm-hmm.
25:47You can do your retreat at night alone.
25:49Mm-hmm.
25:50And that's why there's 64 rituals.
25:52Yes.
25:52And we're going to get into a couple of those at the end of, I think we'll have time.
25:56Yeah.
25:56Okay.
25:57So, and so most people, again, according to research, feel, men and women both feel
26:03they sleep better when they sleep alone.
26:04Yes.
26:05Now, what's interesting is women, seems to me, tend to be lighter sleepers than men.
26:10Men oftentimes go into a deep sleep and it's like, God, I can't wake him, you know?
26:14Yes.
26:15You can toss and turn, oh, what happened?
26:17So, is, did your research find the same thing that men, in their own circadian rhythm and such,
26:21they go into a much deeper sleep at night than the woman next to them?
26:25Yes.
26:26Maybe lighter, but also different timings.
26:29Okay.
26:29We need it, we have a different schedule, a different hormonal cycle.
26:34Mm-hmm.
26:34And it have to be with our, like, menstruation and the moon cycle.
26:40Mm-hmm.
26:40It's not the same.
26:42Men doesn't have that.
26:43Mm-hmm.
26:44You know, we have an initiation every month.
26:48Mm-hmm.
26:48Even when you are menopause, we have the initiation.
26:52We have the restart.
26:54The blood coming out is a powerful thing for us.
26:58Men doesn't have that.
27:00Right.
27:01This, this rite of passage.
27:03Mm-hmm.
27:04We have it every month, Regina.
27:06And so our, our sleep cycles change during the month.
27:08Absolutely.
27:09But the men seem to be out cold.
27:11Absolutely.
27:12And if, talk to your friends.
27:14Yeah, yeah.
27:14I start, like, this book was a, kind of a, a fun way to connect with my friends in the
27:20beginning, birthday parties and going out, okay.
27:22Talking about sleep experiences.
27:24Yeah.
27:24Yeah.
27:25And 90% says, the snoring, it's killing me.
27:30I can't.
27:31Oh, yeah.
27:31I know a lot of people.
27:32That's why they stop sleeping together.
27:34There you go.
27:35Yeah.
27:35Why?
27:36It's not just the snoring.
27:37The sound gets into your subconscious mind, into your cycle, into your rest.
27:44Mm-hmm.
27:46You're going to rest.
27:47Mm-hmm.
27:48We need that.
27:50So, this is all, um, influences.
27:54Mm-hmm.
27:55And of course, it's natural.
27:57People who are now in the boomer category, uh, even a higher percentage tend to sleep alone
28:01because those things like getting, waking up and, you know, just not being able to go back
28:07to sleep, especially among older women in particular, post-menopausal women is, is a deal.
28:11Yes.
28:12And they don't want to wake their husbands up.
28:13Yeah.
28:14And, and both men and women are both develop more snoring patterns as they get older.
28:19Yes.
28:19So, you know, they're, they can disturb each other's sleep by this time.
28:22Yes.
28:23And the movement and waking up to go to the bathroom.
28:25Yeah.
28:26And coming back and...
28:26Yeah.
28:26Two or three times a night in some cases.
28:28Yes.
28:29Yes.
28:29Yeah.
28:29So, that makes total sense.
28:31And I see a lot of that among people.
28:33Yeah.
28:33So, people believe they have a better night sleep when they're alone.
28:37I wanted to bring up human design.
28:39Yeah.
28:40Ra, who created human design, was a huge proponent of people sleeping alone.
28:46Amazing.
28:46And that was to have a sovereignty of your own energy field, your aura.
28:52Absolutely.
28:52To, I mean, when you think about it, everything you've been through in a day is collected into
28:59this large field that we call our aura.
29:01Yeah.
29:01Some people have huge fields.
29:03Yeah.
29:03Others have a little more, more contracted.
29:04But nonetheless, when you're sleeping next to someone, everything you've experienced is spilling
29:09into each other's field.
29:10Absolutely.
29:11And from that point of view alone, to me, it makes a lot of sense that you get at least
29:17carve out a couple nights a week where you can have clear sleep.
29:20Yes.
29:21Yes.
29:22And, and in the beginning, like you mentioned, like, and I have, I've been talking to so many
29:27women that wants to do it and feel afraid to even mention that.
29:33To bring it up, yeah.
29:34Because they'll hurt their husband's feelings.
29:36Yes.
29:36Yeah.
29:37And, and I said...
29:38And probably vice versa.
29:39Absolutely.
29:40Yeah.
29:40And I have a lot of males now contacting me and talking to me about that and said,
29:45I want to do the rituals too.
29:47And I want to do this.
29:48And I need that too.
29:50And, and that's open a whole new conversation about relationships and desire and who I am
30:01in the relationship and roles and, and wantings.
30:08And where you are now in life compared to where you were five or 10 or 20 years ago.
30:12It's a, it's important to acknowledge these things and adjust instead of just expecting
30:17everything's going to be the same as it always was, because it isn't.
30:19It is.
30:20It doesn't.
30:20It changes.
30:21Yeah.
30:21And to not take it personally.
30:23Yeah.
30:23And, and, and this with human design and the, and the influences of the energy field of the
30:30other person, the, the problem with us, this Western society is that we don't see it,
30:36we don't believe it.
30:38Right.
30:38You know, like I don't, we, but we are exchanging right now and with all the viewers and all
30:45the listeners, electromagnetic fields that it's expanding a lot because we have a brain
30:53here and a brain in the gut, but this brain is acting more than the brain in the head.
30:58Yeah.
30:59Yeah.
30:59The heart.
30:59And then that's really coming to the surface now.
31:02Yes.
31:02Yeah.
31:02And that's what happened when you sleep with somebody.
31:05So I'm saying you don't have to non sleep with your partner forever.
31:12Like take one night a week and try and see what happened and share this with your partner.
31:18Yeah.
31:18Cause your dreams definitely change.
31:20Absolutely.
31:21The depth of sleep can really change.
31:23Yes.
31:24And there's another phenomenon, I interviewed someone a few years ago on sleep and sleep
31:28patterns and they said one thing that is indigenous people still practice and understand well is
31:36they call it two sleeps.
31:38Yeah.
31:38So you have the first sleep at night.
31:40Yeah.
31:40And then somewhere in the morning in the wee hours around maybe between one and two o'clock
31:45or three o'clock in the morning, you wake up and you might find yourself wide awake.
31:49Yeah.
31:49And oftentimes that's, that's when you are thinking about things, contemplating, sometimes
31:54they're having sex.
31:55Yeah.
31:55You know, that's your time to be together or whatever you choose, but distinctly two separate
32:01sleeps, that's kind of hard to do when you're with someone else and you're on a different
32:04two sleep cycle.
32:05Absolutely.
32:06You want to get up maybe in journal, for example, but you can't turn the light on.
32:09Yes.
32:10You don't want to disturb your partner.
32:11Yeah.
32:12So the, the, the idea is that have fun and explore a different way of communication with
32:18your partner.
32:19Yeah.
32:19And with yourself.
32:20And you mentioned also women, especially that sleep alone for a long time, people,
32:25women that are singles that don't have a partner or don't want to have a partner or
32:29have a, uh, like from time to time something.
32:33This, uh, content, this book is very useful also because it's not just, oh, I'm just going
32:40to sleep alone and have fun.
32:42It's like, I can really evolve during the night.
32:47There's a spiritual evolution, a consciousness evolution.
32:51If I know what to do during my night alone.
32:54Right.
32:55That is fabulous.
32:56Well, just like we talked about, if you wake up and a dream, a really profound dream has
33:00just come through, you can flip the light on, you can journal it.
33:04Yes.
33:04That's one, one example of things we can do to start seeing our internal reflections being
33:10shown to us or premonitions or whatever it might be.
33:13Yeah.
33:13And also you can change the outcome of your day and the outcome of your life if you know
33:19how to do these lucid dreams practices.
33:22Yes.
33:22And that's hard to do next to someone for sure.
33:25Absolutely.
33:25Yeah.
33:26Okay.
33:26So you say one thing we need to do is make our beds, whether we sleep with someone or whether
33:32we sleep alone, a sacred space.
33:35Yes.
33:35So talk about that for a moment, how you make this a lovely, sacred space.
33:40I like to see my bed as a magic carpet, where every night I'm taking a flight to a different
33:49planet, to a different reality, to a different space.
33:53And it's true.
33:54My soul is sleeping in my body.
33:55Right.
33:56So Jewish people, again, has this prayer in the morning where you thank the creator to bring
34:03your soul back to you.
34:04Mm-hmm.
34:06Because it's like fascinating.
34:07Mm-hmm.
34:08You don't, you just go and you go during the night.
34:12Yeah.
34:12And so I want to see the bed and everything ritualized and beautification of everything.
34:19Right.
34:19So whatever that means to you, to have your own pillow that works just right for your, that's,
34:25that's really important, getting the right pillow.
34:27Oh, yes.
34:27I mean, this is just practical, but everyone's neck and structure is different.
34:31Yes.
34:31Having the right pillow, maybe even having an essential oil or scent or something that
34:37you spray on your pillow before you go to sleep at night.
34:40Yeah.
34:40Yeah.
34:41And then you talk to your pillow.
34:42Mm-hmm.
34:43Pillow talk.
34:44Pillow talk.
34:45It's like, you thank your pillow in advance and said, listen, I'm going to go to you and
34:50you're going to hold my head.
34:51Imagine my brain is going to be there and just let's go together.
34:57Be part of this, this experience, fun experience, make things fun.
35:03It makes me laugh because my pillow and I do go places together.
35:06I have an array of pillows, all different pillows for different things on my bed, but
35:11my one little pillow that's just the lightest of down feathers goes everywhere.
35:16I make sure it's in my suitcase.
35:18I love that.
35:19Yeah.
35:19And it comes with me and I just roll it up however my head wants to be positioned at night.
35:24Because it's your energy.
35:25And if this pillow can talk, it has so much information about...
35:29So many secrets.
35:31And in the book, there's one of the chapters or one of the ritual is about
35:36glymphatic cleaning.
35:38Mm-hmm.
35:38That is something that they discovered the last 10 years.
35:41Lymphatic cleaning?
35:42Glymphatic.
35:43We have the lymphatic system that works when we move.
35:47Right.
35:47Glymphatic is a system that cleans your brain when you sleep.
35:53Okay.
35:53And it's like the people cleaning the, swiping the...
35:57So it's important that your head is positioned comfortably just to let all the fluids flow.
36:01Absolutely.
36:02Okay, now I have another thing to ask you and then we'll get to a couple of sleep rituals
36:06that you talk about in the book.
36:07So one of the things I inadvertently discovered was because I do podcasts in the morning,
36:14people will be interviewing me on shows around the world and sometimes it's a little too early
36:18for my face.
36:19Yeah.
36:20And so I was buying a new mattress recently.
36:23Okay.
36:23And the guy, the mattress salesperson said,
36:27oh, here, try this.
36:28And he said, and then he gets out his remote control.
36:30Have you ever been in an adjustable bed?
36:31I said, no, and I don't intend to.
36:33That's like for hospitals.
36:34He goes, really?
36:35And he starts going like this and I'm like, oh my God, whoa, that's interesting.
36:41I said, okay, I'll try it.
36:43And so I didn't really use it initially.
36:46And I thought, wait a minute.
36:47When I'm sleeping, if I put it in that inclined position,
36:53my eyes aren't puffy in the morning.
36:54You see?
36:55I'm not stuffy in any way, but I sleep much deeper.
37:00And particularly those last morning hours where that deep REM and those dreams come through.
37:05Absolutely.
37:05What's up with that about sleeping in a slight inclined position?
37:09It depends on your body.
37:11It depends on your body and your needs, but it's very fun to explore.
37:16I did.
37:17And I thought, this is great.
37:18So there are times you just want to curl up on your side and just wrap around a pillow and everything.
37:22I love my pillows.
37:24But there are other times where it's like, no, I need to just be in this position and be very quiet.
37:31And you don't move all night.
37:34So I'm happy I experimented with it and I'm playing with it.
37:36And I still do from time to time, especially before podcasts.
37:39So it might be something for people to play with.
37:42Yes.
37:42You can put it on most mattresses.
37:44Yes.
37:44Or you can pile some pillows and go a little bit more high.
37:50You can.
37:50It's not quite as comfortable.
37:51I've kind of tried different ones.
37:53But this is a very interesting point that you find the best way for you to sleep.
37:59And when you are next to a person every night of your whole life, sometimes you don't even have
38:06the thought or the idea.
38:08I know a lot of divorced women that is still, they are alone in the bed and they're still sleeping
38:16in the side of the bed that they used to sleep when the husband was there.
38:20And I say, honey, expand.
38:22Open your arms.
38:23I am one of them.
38:24Yeah, a stretch.
38:25I sleep on my side, but it's not because of that.
38:28It's because my feet need freedom and fresh air.
38:30Yeah.
38:31Because that's my temperature regulator.
38:33I like to have cold feet.
38:34Yeah.
38:34And it's hard to get my feet out when you're in the middle of the bed, you're struggling.
38:38So everyone has their own reasons for it.
38:40Of course.
38:40But at least open up like a starfish and feel the erections and feel the snow angels in your bed.
38:50Absolutely.
38:51Absolutely.
38:52That's part of the rituals.
38:53Yeah.
38:53Like you beautify and you kind of, everything is sacred.
38:58Yeah.
38:59Yeah.
38:59So this bed that is going to hold your body for the entire night and your pillow is a sacred space.
39:06Third of your life, it has to be.
39:09So we've kind of established a little bit, you know, and all these scientific studies are saying people
39:14not only do sleep deeper, they feel they sleep deeper.
39:17So we don't need to make that in indigenous populations around the world and others.
39:23People still sleep on their own mats or their own mattresses.
39:27So in American culture, this is just, it's a construct that has a lot of emotional baggage
39:33with it that we're afraid to bring up with each other.
39:36And that's why I think what you're doing is important to say, no, no, no, this is a sacred time.
39:41So giving people permission to say, honey, I heard this show and I'd like to just even go
39:46sleep on the couch for a night if I need to and don't take it personally.
39:51Yeah.
39:51So give us a couple sleep rituals before we talked about the pillow.
39:55The pillow is beautiful.
39:57I like, there's a lot of rituals in the book and there's a whole chapter of mantras
40:02that I like make it really, really easy.
40:04My favorite mantras, uh, because it's like sacred repetitions and wording that you can say to yourself.
40:12One is this beautification and sacredness of the.
40:14Mm-hmm.
40:15Make your bed beautiful and make your sheets so that they feel good on your skin,
40:20whatever that may be.
40:21Some people like them a little coarser.
40:23Yeah.
40:24Some people need smooth.
40:25Yes.
40:25But make it right for you.
40:27One of the rituals that are in the book that I love it and, and I love flowers.
40:32You think flowers has a strong medicine.
40:35So you put a little napkin, you create a little mandala with some flowers.
40:39Mm-hmm.
40:39You can cut flowers, flowers that you have in your house.
40:42You, and you do a little, like, prayer.
40:46May this beautiful scents and the spirit of the flowers stay with me during the night.
40:57Then you remove this.
40:58You're not going to sleep on top of the flowers.
41:01Right.
41:01You can put it on the floor or next.
41:02Or next to the bed.
41:03Next to the bed, on the little, like, table next to the bed.
41:06And take your roses or whatever with you in your dream time.
41:10And in the, and yes.
41:11And in the morning, you take these beautiful flowers and you offer it to the waters or to
41:18the garden.
41:19Mm-hmm.
41:20And you do your little offering, uh, thinking.
41:23That's a beautiful ritual.
41:24It's so easy to do.
41:25It's easy.
41:26And also, these scents are very high, depending on the blossom, very high frequency.
41:30Yes.
41:30If you take a rose, for example, that's setting you into a very high frequency range as you're
41:36going to sleep.
41:37Yes.
41:37And you can use even rose essential oil on your pillow.
41:40Yes.
41:40And I encourage people to, uh, do some research on the power of this, the medicine of the flowers.
41:46Yes.
41:47Uh, and then I say, okay, I feel depressed or I feel down or I feel sad.
41:53What is the right flower for me to do this small ritual before going to bed?
41:58And you just get some petals.
41:59Yeah.
42:00Or two or three flowers.
42:01Do your circle.
42:02Or even like citrus if you need that boost, you know?
42:05Yes.
42:06Yeah.
42:06Put it.
42:06Put it on your bed and then remove it.
42:09That's a beautiful ritual.
42:10The other one that I love and I invite all these females and males to, create your throne.
42:18Get a chair, an old chair, whatever chair.
42:21If they have like the arms, chairs is better.
42:24Mm-hmm.
42:25And intervene with art.
42:27Just put like feathers and, um, um, crystals, whatever you want to put.
42:32So make your throne, personalize your throne with whatever you, whatever you find beautiful.
42:36Yes.
42:37Yeah.
42:37And then you sit there for five minutes before going to bed.
42:41But put it next to your bed.
42:43Sit on the throne.
42:44And it's a little meditation, I assume?
42:46That's the meditation.
42:47Yeah.
42:47And you feel your, your royalty.
42:50Mm-hmm.
42:50You feel your sovereignty.
42:52Your sovereignty.
42:53Mm-hmm.
42:53You feel your lineage of power and, and presence.
43:00Meditate.
43:00Like maybe one minute, two minutes.
43:02Set your intention for your dream time.
43:04Yes.
43:04Yeah.
43:05And, but have the throne as your personal space, because this is, this all symbolic
43:13things are going to translate into your dreams, lucid dreams.
43:19And for sure, believe me, you're going to start seeing magic everywhere.
43:24And your reality are going to be like, wow, I never seen that.
43:29I never noticed that.
43:30I never knew that.
43:32And it was always there.
43:34So don't just drag yourself in and out of bed.
43:37Yeah.
43:38Know that this is a very sacred time where you're out there doing a lot.
43:42You're in other dimensions doing a lot.
43:44And the more you have a chance to sleep clearly, several REM cycles, as you say, the more you
43:50can bring back into conscious awareness, because oftentimes I interviewed Teresa Chung now and
43:56then out of England, and she writes the book on dream, books on dreams.
43:59Yeah, that's beautiful.
44:00And so much about our own healing and about what's trying to reveal itself to us of our
44:06futures happens in dream time.
44:07But if you can't get clear sleep, you don't hear the message.
44:09Yeah.
44:10So that's why those rituals, these 64 rituals are so, very simple.
44:15Yeah.
44:15There's nothing complicated.
44:17You don't need to buy anything.
44:18It's just, oh.
44:19Just take one or two that you really like and use them.
44:22Well, any final thoughts before we say goodbye?
44:24We're out of time, I'm afraid.
44:26That went fast.
44:28Oh, this is an oracle.
44:30The oracle is on your hands and in your mind.
44:33And if you open it up with intention, magic will happen.
44:38And we can evolve.
44:41We need to evolve.
44:42And this is the time to do it.
44:43And thank you very much.
44:44I'm so happy to hear you.
44:45I'm happy, and I'm happy to meet you.
44:47Yeah.
44:47I just love your Argentine energy, as I said.
44:50And thank you for writing.
44:50An accent.
44:51An accent.
44:52And thank you for writing this book.
44:53I'm my Argentine tango teachers.
44:55I love it.
44:56There you go.
44:56Thank you so much, Cynthia.
44:58Cynthia's book is titled The Joy of Sleeping Alone,
45:01and it can be found at all major booksellers.
45:03Until next time, thank you for joining us here on Open Minds.
45:06In the Coast to be Кoge.
45:07And we can do a new book.
45:11Yeah.
45:11Welcome back to the World of Information.
45:12I love you.
45:13Thanks to everyone.
45:15Thanks.
45:15Thanks.
45:16Thanks for joining us.
45:16I'll see you next time.
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