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00:01From 30, Rockefeller Fausse in New York,
00:04it's Late Night with Seth Meyers.
00:07Tonight, Carl Anthony Towns.
00:10From Stranger Things, producer and director Sean Levy.
00:13Author, Andrew Ross Sorkin.
00:20And now, Seth Meyers.
00:23Good evening, everybody. I'm Seth Meyers.
00:25It's Late Night. We hope you're doing well.
00:27And now, if you don't mind, we're going to get to the news
00:29in a post today on Truth Social.
00:31President Trump said,
00:33The USA markets just hit another all-time high, all of them.
00:36Thank you, Mr. Tariff.
00:38Oh, no.
00:39Does he think the tariffs are people?
00:42I just had dinner with Dave and Julie Tariff.
00:45Very nice. They paid for everything.
00:48In a new interview, President Trump said that Venezuela
00:51will not have new elections in the next 30 days
00:54and added,
00:55We have to fix the country first.
00:57I don't know.
00:58I think it's going to take longer than 30 days
01:00to build them a new ballroom.
01:04According to a new poll, 44% of Republicans would support
01:07amending the Constitution to allow President Trump to seek
01:10a third term, while the other 56% said,
01:13He's only on his second term?
01:17While speaking today to House Republicans,
01:19President Trump said that he wouldn't say that he wants to
01:22cancel the election because, quote,
01:24The fake news will say he's a dictator.
01:26Well, if you cancel the elections, it won't be fake news.
01:28At that point, the dictionary will call you a dictator.
01:32President Trump also told House Republicans they have to win
01:36the midterms because, quote,
01:38If we don't win the midterms, they'll find a reason to impeach me.
01:41Of course, the challenge isn't finding one.
01:43It's picking one.
01:45After Minnesota Governor Tim Walz announced yesterday
01:49that he will not run for reelection,
01:50President Trump accused Walz of stealing taxpayer dollars.
01:54Him?
01:55Yeah.
01:56That must be how he gets all those fancy clothes.
01:59The only thing this man is stealing is the blue ribbon
02:02at the county fair.
02:04Today was the fifth anniversary of the January 6th Capitol attack.
02:08This news first reported by the cake in Fox News' break room.
02:15In a post yesterday on Truth Social,
02:18President Trump repeated his recommendation to pregnant women
02:21to avoid taking Tylenol.
02:23All right, well, if you don't want people taking Tylenol,
02:25just stop talking.
02:29The Corporation for Public Broadcasting voted yesterday
02:32to dissolve itself, which will cut off a major funding source
02:35for NPR, PBS, and hundreds of local radio and TV stations.
02:39Things are so bad that Oscar had to get roommates.
02:43I never quite know what we're going to expect
02:48when we make a bad news joke about Sesame Street.
02:51New York's MTA recently reported that since the start of
02:56Manhattan's congestion pricing program,
02:58air pollution in Midtown has decreased by 22%,
03:01and it's great because now you can really smell the urine.
03:04And finally, the Wall Street Journal recently published a profile
03:10on the Detroit Ford Motors employee who came up with the idea
03:14to put an arrow on the dashboard of a car,
03:16indicating which side the tank is on.
03:18It must be a nice feeling to know you've accomplished more
03:21than the President of the United States.
03:23And that was a monologue, everybody.
03:25He's got a great show for tonight.
03:27He's an NBA All-Star, the 2016 Rookie of the Year.
03:33He recently helped lead the New York Knicks to winning
03:35their first NBA Cup championship.
03:37Carl Anthony Towns is on the show.
03:40So happy Carl's here.
03:42He's a multi-talented producer, director, and writer,
03:45whose movies include Deadpool and Wolverine, Free Guy,
03:48as well as The Night at the Museum franchise.
03:51He's an executive producer and director of the Netflix
03:55Smash Stranger Things.
03:57Sean Levy is here. Everybody gets to talk to him
04:00about his fantastic show.
04:02He's the co-host of CNBC's Squawk Box,
04:06an award-winning journalist whose book,
04:091929 Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History
04:12and How It Shattered a Nation,
04:14is a number-one New York Times bestseller.
04:16Andrew Ross Sorkin is also joining us.
04:21Family Chips, we had a great conversation with Jim James.
04:24Do give that a listen wherever you get your podcasts.
04:27You guys, here at Late Night, every night,
04:30I deliver a monologue.
04:31It is written by a diverse team of writers as a result.
04:35A lot of jokes come across my desk that,
04:37due to my being a straight white male,
04:39would be difficult for me to deliver.
04:41But we don't think that should stop you from enjoying them,
04:44so we'd like to share them with you now
04:46in a segment called Jokes Seth Can't Tell.
04:51Hey, everybody.
04:53These are two of our writers, Amber and Jenny.
04:56I'm black.
04:57And I'm gay.
04:58And we're both women.
04:59And I'm not.
05:00So here's how it works.
05:01I'll read the setups for these jokes,
05:03and Amber and Jenny will read the punchlines.
05:05So here it goes.
05:07A woman recently proposed to her girlfriend
05:09during a professional women's hockey game.
05:12Experts are calling it the gayest sentence ever said.
05:15The Washington Post recently ran an op-ed titled,
05:19There Are Two Black Americas.
05:21Said black people, take me to the other one.
05:26What are they doing in the other black America?
05:28The electric slide.
05:29Oh, all right.
05:30A library recently held a reading
05:33to celebrate Emily Dickinson's birthday.
05:35It included one of her most famous poems.
05:38Hope is the thing with feathers.
05:41Also, I'm gay.
05:43A popular fast food chain
05:46will test a new chicken and waffle sandwich.
05:49That's cultural appropriation,
05:51said black people going through the drive-thru.
05:54Have you tried it yet?
05:56No, but it better be good, because if not,
05:58I will still be eating it.
06:00Okay.
06:01Author Kristen Arnett recently released a novel
06:04about a lesbian clown.
06:06A lesbian clown is like a regular clown,
06:08but with uglier shoes.
06:11Jenny, what's the hardest part about being a lesbian clown?
06:14Learning to use makeup.
06:20Today was the 164th anniversary of Jefferson Davis
06:24being elected the president of the Confederacy.
06:26So if you'd like to learn more about a racist president,
06:29pick up today's newspaper.
06:34Two lesbian grandmas recently went viral on TikTok.
06:37TikTok is also what lesbians say on a first date.
06:40TikTok, we get married or what?
06:44Producers in Hollywood recently released the annual blacklist.
06:47We also have a blacklist, said police.
06:54What was that, true?
06:56Pornhub announced that there has been a considerable increase
07:01in searches for the term lesbian MILF.
07:04A lesbian MILF is like a straight MILF,
07:06except she doesn't have time to you because she's running the PTA.
07:14Scientists have found a black hole that has been blasting winds
07:18at 130 miles per hour.
07:20I said, excuse me!
07:28Mom, it's gonna be so bad!
07:31Hey, Seth, why don't you...
07:32Oh, no, I could not. Absolutely.
07:33No, I just feel like if I tell when it will not end well.
07:37Oh, come on, do it.
07:38All right, all right, all right.
07:39Out.com recently published a queer guide to starting over abroad.
07:45You had me at abroad.
07:47Seth, no!
07:49Oh, God. Shame.
07:51Yeah, you know what? That was really bad.
07:52Yeah.
07:53I think I'm gonna win you back. Can I try one more?
07:55Please, please.
07:56Okay, and you promise it's fine?
07:57Yes.
07:58Carbange to do whatever I feel is best.
08:00You will win us back, guaranteed.
08:02All right. Thank you, Amber.
08:03And thank you, Jenny.
08:04You're welcome.
08:05For your trust.
08:06Uh-huh.
08:07The U.S. Mint recently ended production of The Penny,
08:11said black people,
08:12so then how are we supposed to tip?
08:14Oh, my God!
08:18I dare you!
08:19Seth, how could you do it?!
08:20You laughed at it in rehearsal!
08:22Don't act like you haven't heard it before!
08:24It was your idea to make me do this.
08:26You guys should be ashamed of yourself.
08:27You guys, black women and lesbians are liars.
08:30We'll be right back with Carl Anthony Pounce.
08:48Our first guest tonight is a five-time NBA All-Star
08:51and the 2016 Rookie of the Year he recently helped lead.
08:55The New York Knicks to winning their first NBA Cup championship.
08:58Please welcome to the show Carl Anthony Towns, everybody!
09:16How are you, Kat?
09:17I'm good, man. I'm good.
09:18I'm thrilled to see you.
09:19Yes, yes.
09:20Thank you. You came straight from practice.
09:21I did. I did. I did.
09:23By the way, this is wonderful.
09:24Marty Supreme, you're shouting out.
09:26You're shouting out.
09:27Yes, yes, yes.
09:29This is kind of a shout-out to Timothee Chalamet,
09:31who is really one of our foremost Knick fans in the city.
09:33Literally, literally.
09:34Yeah, shout-out to my brother, man.
09:36He's doing an amazing job, and I'm happy to see the critics
09:39and everyone really appreciating what he's doing.
09:41When you won the NBA Cup championship,
09:43you actually posted that you actually personally FaceTimed
09:46with some of our...
09:47I did, I did.
09:48Ben Stiller seems very happy here.
09:50Yes, yes, yes. Look at that.
09:51And there's Marty Supreme, who's out of town.
09:54Yes, look at him. There we go.
09:56How much when you...
09:57You know, again, these are some of the familiar faces.
09:59Tracy Morgan's another one.
10:00Yeah, yeah.
10:01Edie Falco.
10:02Yes, yes.
10:03Do you ever make eye contact during the game?
10:05Give them a little nod?
10:06I think they make it themselves known in the game, you know?
10:09So...
10:10But, no, they...
10:11We have such great support here.
10:12I mean, the fans are amazing.
10:14And, you know, I think with the NBA Cup happening
10:17and us finding a way to win
10:18and doing a lot of amazing things right now,
10:21it's a special time to be a Knicks fan.
10:23You started your career, obviously, in Minnesota.
10:25Yeah.
10:26And, you know, it's a huge transition for anybody
10:28who lives in Minnesota to come to New York.
10:31I've been told.
10:32You grew up in New Jersey, so you're, you know,
10:34from the East Coast, but how was that transition to when,
10:37you know, obviously, you played in Madison Square Garden,
10:39but what's it like having home games in that stadium?
10:41Like you said, I mean, it's different when you're a visitor
10:43and you're the home guy.
10:44I've been used to coming to MSG and being booed.
10:46Yeah.
10:47So this is the first time that I'm getting cheered for.
10:50And it's been amazing.
10:51Last year was an amazing season for us.
10:53And, obviously, this year, the fans expect even more.
10:55So we're trying to exceed their expectations.
10:58You guys won on Christmas Day.
11:00Yes.
11:01That was not the best thing that happened to you on Christmas Day.
11:02No.
11:03You went straight from the game.
11:04And congratulations, Kat.
11:06I appreciate it.
11:07You got engaged.
11:08Yes.
11:09There you are.
11:11Yeah.
11:12I don't know if they're cheering for me or for her.
11:17I feel like everyone's a bigger fan of her.
11:18Yeah.
11:19But it's pretty amazing.
11:20I mean, quite a vantage point.
11:21Did she have any expectation was coming?
11:23How much of a surprise was it?
11:24It was a surprise.
11:25Okay.
11:26It was a surprise.
11:27Yeah, we've been dating for five and a half years up to that point.
11:29Okay.
11:30And, yeah, I know.
11:31In Hollywood, that doesn't last long.
11:32Yeah.
11:33We found a way.
11:34We found a way.
11:35We found a way five and a half years, ebbs and flows of a relationship, as anyone would
11:39know.
11:40And I think the most important thing, and we had this conversation the other day, is that
11:44we always chose each other.
11:46Yeah.
11:47You know, through the bad and the good, we always found ourselves choosing each other.
11:50And I think that makes for a strong bond, a strong relationship.
11:53And I wanted her to have a ring that shows that bond and relationship that we've built.
11:58And, yeah, I want everyone to know she's mine.
12:01Was she happy with the ring?
12:04Yes.
12:05Okay, great.
12:06She was ecstatic.
12:07I think I did well.
12:08Okay.
12:09That's really good.
12:10Well done.
12:11Her mom approved.
12:12That's the most important thing.
12:13Yeah.
12:14I didn't even risk it.
12:15I said to my wife, like, hypothetically, what would you want it to look like?
12:18We had a wonderful night together recently with Fanatics.
12:22There was a release of the new Topps basketball cards.
12:25Yes, yes.
12:26Topps got the rights back to basketball.
12:27I brought your kids with some in the back, too.
12:28Oh, did you? That's fantastic.
12:29Well, you actually, my son, both my sons, came to this event.
12:32And here's a photo of you and Axel.
12:34Look at that.
12:35That's my son Axel.
12:36That's you.
12:37You're obviously immediately their favorite player in the NBA for how kind you were.
12:41But it was an interesting night.
12:42Yeah.
12:43Because we went to this event.
12:44There was this little green room.
12:45It was at the NBA store.
12:47The green room was the size of me.
12:49It was very small.
12:50Yeah, yeah.
12:51And there was a lot of boxes of cards stacked up.
12:52And you're a big...
12:53You love cards.
12:54I love cards.
12:55The good people of Fanatics bought a lot of boxes of cards.
12:58They were giving you cards, me cards.
13:00End of the night, I'm grabbing all the bags.
13:02I see a couple of boxes of soccer cards.
13:04And I'm like, oh, you know, I feel like these are for us.
13:06Yeah.
13:07And I took them home.
13:09And they were not for me.
13:12And we had exchanged numbers.
13:14Yes.
13:15And even when we exchanged numbers, I was like, I wonder if we're ever going to have a reason
13:18to text each other.
13:19And then like an hour after we met, you were like, did you steal my cards?
13:25I didn't say steal.
13:27I thought they were misplaced.
13:29You did say, LMAO, thank God.
13:33I was more worried someone came in our green room and stole our cards and my hats.
13:38Well, I did use the word steal, though.
13:39Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:40I take that back.
13:41And then I did say that I've been telling people what's Cat like in person he's so easy to steal from.
13:48That's not good in New York.
13:50But you actually worked in a card store when you were a kid in high school.
13:55You have a wonderful big bodega of cards, one of my favorite Instagram channels.
13:59I appreciate it. Thank you.
14:00But anyway, I said, hey, I'll get the cards to you.
14:02It was a Thursday night.
14:03I go, I'll get them to you on Monday.
14:04I remember, yes.
14:05I was like, I can get them to you on Monday.
14:06This is how bad it got.
14:07Yeah.
14:08This is how bad our card collection.
14:09Yeah.
14:10I was like, I'll get them to you on Monday.
14:11You're like, actually, I'm going to send somebody now.
14:14I will never forget it.
14:15He was like, I got a flight.
14:16I was like, well, don't worry.
14:17He'll be there before the flight.
14:18We'll go get the cards.
14:19You did not.
14:20You were like, you're trustworthy, but I am going to get them now.
14:24But then I just want to speak to the kind of guy you are,
14:26because you didn't just send somebody to get the cards.
14:28You were also like, I'm going to bring something for your kids.
14:30What size shoe are you?
14:32Oh, size 20.
14:33Size 20.
14:34Yeah.
14:35If you want to know what a...
14:37I thought it was reasonable for me, but all right.
14:40If you want to know what a size 20 shoe looks like,
14:42this is what it looks like with my children.
14:45Autograph shoes.
14:46Autograph shoes.
14:47And, you know, it's so funny.
14:48They put them on the windowsill, and it's like,
14:50when I put the curtains up in the morning,
14:52I'm like, it's still dark in here.
14:53That's how big your shoes are.
14:56I thought it was the hot.
14:58Tell people don't come in here.
15:00So you grew up in New Jersey.
15:02You were a Philadelphia sports fan.
15:04Is that right?
15:05Yes, I was an Eagles fan.
15:06Eagles fan. Eagles fan.
15:07Eagles fan.
15:08I'm with my Yankees all the time.
15:10Yeah.
15:11Do you get excited about being a sports fan still,
15:14even as being a professional athlete?
15:15Yeah.
15:16No, I do.
15:17I do.
15:18I mean, not many times in my life,
15:19I get to be a fan of something.
15:20Yeah.
15:21I'm usually always the one that's entertaining
15:23and doing the basketball part and the sports part.
15:25But, yeah, my Eagles looking to be back-to-back,
15:28hopefully, this year.
15:29Do you watch it like a fan?
15:31Do you get nervous?
15:32Do you get excited?
15:33Oh, no.
15:34Yeah.
15:35Me, JB, Deuce McBride are big Eagles fans,
15:37so we get stressed out on those games.
15:40That's really good.
15:41What is your stress level before games when you're playing?
15:44Like, I mean, you've been at this for a while now.
15:47Honestly, I just, I get excited.
15:49Yeah, that's a better feeling.
15:50I love competition.
15:51I love going out there to play basketball.
15:52But it's just really exciting every time I get to put the jersey on.
15:55I think now in my stage of my career,
15:57I'm still, I'm just entering my prime and everything,
15:59and I'm more understanding the importance of every game.
16:02Yeah.
16:03And the value that comes with it,
16:04because you never know how much longer you're going to be doing this.
16:06You never know what God has planned.
16:07So I just go out there and enjoy every moment I get.
16:09It's all-star voting right now.
16:10Do you want to make a case for yourself,
16:12or do you want me to do it?
16:13I let the fans pick.
16:14You let the fans pick.
16:15I let the fans pick.
16:16I just, all I want to keep doing is impacting winning
16:18and finding ways to win here in New York.
16:20You've obviously used, like you said,
16:21you've been at this a long time.
16:22You played before the NBA.
16:23Obviously, you were a kid who played basketball.
16:26Is it true that due to your size,
16:28parents on the other teams thought that you were lying about your age?
16:32Oh, yes, absolutely.
16:34I almost felt like it was like when you leave the house,
16:37you would be like, all right, make sure you got your shoes.
16:39You know, kids, we're always going to forget the shoes.
16:40Make sure you got your shoes, your jersey for the game,
16:43and the birth certificate.
16:45If you got those three things, I'm playing today.
16:47Wow.
16:48And so how often did your coach have to break out the birth certificate?
16:51Oh, yeah.
16:52Really?
16:53A lot.
16:54Yeah.
16:55I mean, it is very funny that if you were so much taller,
16:57that you tried.
16:58The idea is even funnier that you would try to get away with it.
17:00Yeah, no, right?
17:01Yeah.
17:02Obviously, this is not your age group.
17:04I was lucky, though.
17:05My dad always told me that, you know, for me to be my best,
17:07I had to go against the best.
17:08So I actually ended up playing like three age groups up.
17:11So it was like a lot of times I didn't need it.
17:13I didn't need it.
17:14Well, he obviously made a good choice there.
17:16Yeah.
17:17Congratulations on everything.
17:18Good luck for the rest of the season.
17:19Appreciate it. Thank you.
17:20And thank you so much.
17:21Thank you so much.
17:22Appreciate it.
17:23Charlie Anthony Towns, everybody.
17:24We'll be right back with Shawn Levy.
17:31Welcome back, everybody.
17:32Our next guest is an Academy Award and Emmy-nominated producer,
17:43director, and writer whose movies include Deadpool and Wolverine,
17:47Free Guy, and The Night at the Museum franchise.
17:50He's an executive producer and director of Stranger Things,
17:53which just streamed its series finale
17:55and is available now in its entirety on Netflix.
17:57Let's take a look.
17:58Stop!
17:59I'm serious!
18:00It's not safe!
18:01You're gonna fall!
18:02It's unstable!
18:03I got it already, okay?
18:04No, don't!
18:05Stop!
18:06Being an a*****!
18:07I'm not being an a*****!
18:08I'm trying to get to that man!
18:09You're always trying to get yourself killed
18:10and I can't let it happen again!
18:12Stop being so selfish, please!
18:13If you go on there, you're gonna die
18:15and I can't deal with it again.
18:16You can't die because I can't deal with it again.
18:18Don't let it happen again.
18:20Please.
18:21Please don't let it happen again.
18:23Not you.
18:24I'm sorry.
18:26Please welcome to the show my friend Sean Levy, everybody!
18:42Hello, Sean!
18:44What an exciting time to have you.
18:47It was also, I was so fortunate backstage,
18:49I met your oldest daughter and your wife
18:51and it's lovely to see them as well.
18:53It is, but can I just, I have to start by saying
18:56that you've, without knowing it,
18:58you've become a bit of a marital problem for me.
19:00Okay, okay.
19:01Because I, so I've been with my wife for 30 years,
19:04but she is low-key obsessed with you and your show.
19:07I'm sure she's not alone, right?
19:09Yeah.
19:10And so, like, literally, it's like, I cannot get Serena
19:14to come to bed without her Sethi first.
19:16Wow.
19:17Like, she's like, no, no, no, I need my Sethi.
19:19Wow.
19:20And so you didn't even know you're like the third prong
19:22in this thruple.
19:23I mean, so exciting.
19:24I mean, I thought...
19:25I would have been looking for an open marriage.
19:26I thought I would have to do so much work to be in a thruple,
19:29and now...
19:30Yeah, no, but this is like, it's low-maintenance, low-impact.
19:32Well, that, I will say, my wife is a huge Stranger Things fan
19:37and never watches this show, so I do feel like it evens out.
19:42It's almost like a platonic couple swap.
19:45That sounds great.
19:46I also, I feel like we do, we have something in common,
19:49which is we both kind of started thinking maybe we'd be actors
19:53in this business.
19:54And this is one of your early...
19:56Oh, boy.
19:57Is it your first?
19:58That is basically my first real gig.
20:01You were on an episode of 21 Jump Street, which...
20:04Before the younger viewers...
20:05Before it was a Jonah Hill film.
20:06I was gonna say, for the younger viewers,
20:08there was this super popular TV show.
20:10Yeah, and that's Johnny Depp right there,
20:12just to give you an idea.
20:13But this was actually, this was the craziest,
20:15but very memorable welcome to the business kind of moment,
20:19because I was like 21, I was fresh out of college,
20:22and I got the guest spot in the spring break episode,
20:25so I go to Miami, and I'm sitting in this car
20:28because it's gonna be a drive-and-talk scene.
20:30Right.
20:31And Johnny Depp gets in the car, and I am, like, too eager.
20:34Yeah, yeah.
20:35Kind of like I am right now.
20:36Right, right.
20:37But younger.
20:38Yeah.
20:39And I was like...
20:40Eager when you're already successful is fine.
20:42Eager before you've done anything.
20:43Yeah, right, but it's not a great look
20:44when you've achieved nothing.
20:45Yeah.
20:46And I was like, hello, Mr. Depp,
20:48I'm Sean Levy from Montreal, Canada.
20:50Like, I mean, truly...
20:52Oh, do we have some Canadians in the house?
20:54Okay, thank you.
20:56Guys, that just made me less nervous.
20:58And I was like, nice to meet you.
21:00I'm thrilled to be here.
21:01And he's like, you like being a puppet?
21:04Because what I didn't know is at this point,
21:06all Johnny Depp wanted to do was go start his huge movie career.
21:09Yes, of course.
21:10And I was like, I'm sorry, Mr. Depp.
21:12He's like, welcome to the puppet show, kid.
21:15Dance, puppet. Dance.
21:17Like, full on with, like, the marionette hands and everything.
21:21Yeah.
21:22And I've never seen Johnny Depp since.
21:23Yeah.
21:24That was like...
21:25I don't know that that was the reason.
21:27Yeah.
21:28But it definitely was this very kind of ominous welcome
21:31to the business.
21:33I mean, I would be so happy if you saw him again
21:35after all these years.
21:36And he's like, puppet?
21:38Yeah.
21:39I feel like we worked together on a puppet show.
21:41Then I would really feel like I've achieved something.
21:43You have achieved something.
21:44Congratulations and everything.
21:45But specifically, Stranger Things,
21:47it just must be so rewarding to have had this show
21:50that started in 2016 and first started airing.
21:53And do you feel like...
21:54I mean, obviously, I feel like the fans feel
21:56as though you nailed the landing.
21:58Do you feel the same?
21:59I was shooting my latest movie in London
22:02when I first watched the first cut of the finale episode,
22:04and I was a wreck.
22:06Like, sort of like the videos we now see all over the Internet
22:09of people weeping openly.
22:10That was me.
22:11Yeah.
22:12Even though I was in the initial pitch,
22:13I had read every draft.
22:15I had seen the dailies.
22:16But seeing it all come together,
22:18I was going to text the Duffers,
22:20who I've been with for a decade making this show,
22:22but I FaceTimed them, and they were driving.
22:24And I couldn't even get through a sentence without sobbing.
22:27Yeah.
22:28It was deeply humiliating.
22:29Well, the one thing that is interesting is,
22:31even though you can, you know, read the scripts and everything,
22:33like, and I think it's the way we all feel,
22:35is, like, these kids just, like, grew up while it was happening.
22:38So we also, I feel like it's the passage of time is very unique.
22:43It also, like, no matter how old you are, images like this
22:47make us all weep at the passage of time.
22:49Yeah.
22:50Right? Because it weep.
22:51Because, like, that, like, you're very proud of these kids,
22:53but you miss when they're, like, younger.
22:55But can I say this?
22:56They were sweet, authentic kids when we found them at 12 years old,
23:01and they're still sweet, authentic young adults.
23:04Yeah.
23:05It's really, it was a magical thing,
23:07and as magic as they were individually,
23:09the combination of them,
23:11which was really evident in that very first episode,
23:15in the very first season in that basement,
23:17that D&D game in the basement,
23:19which is where it started, is of course...
23:21By the way, have you all seen it?
23:22Because I don't want to...
23:23Like, what if...
23:27What if this whole appearance became, like,
23:29a massive spoiler contribution?
23:31I know, but by the way, I love that you think a spoiler
23:32is it starts in a basement.
23:34No, but I was about to allude to the ending
23:36and the fact that it also ends.
23:38So you've done Marvel stuff as well.
23:41You must understand the idea of spoilers more than most people.
23:45I do, but I feel like I really needed that lesson
23:48more than an average human because I have just a big mouth,
23:52and I love to talk, and I love to kind of tell people things.
23:56But between Stranger Things for 10 years
23:58and Deadpool and Wolverine and now this Star Wars movie
24:00that I'm making, I've been well-trained.
24:01Yeah, you just said that was...
24:02When you say you were in London shooting a movie,
24:03it was a Star Wars movie with Ryan Gosling.
24:05Oh, yes. This part...
24:06This part was...
24:08Although, I feel like this particular picture
24:11that I took was on the Mediterranean off of Sardinia.
24:14But that picture is a good reminder
24:17of why I just virulently avoided pictures
24:22with Ryan Gosling.
24:23Yeah.
24:24Because no matter how good you feel about yourself...
24:26Yeah.
24:27Like, don't be in a picture with Ryan Gosling
24:29because you will feel worse.
24:30Yeah.
24:31Right? Like...
24:32Like, what?
24:33Yeah, there's no weather that his hair doesn't look even better.
24:36Do you know what I'm saying? It's like...
24:37I mean, I think this kid's mad at you.
24:39He's like, why am I in this?
24:40He looks pissed off.
24:41Yeah.
24:42Yeah.
24:43We were talking about the show starting in 2016,
24:45Stranger Things.
24:46When did you realize that it had resonated with an audience
24:50in a way?
24:51Because, again, it's kind of crazy.
24:52You've been in a world with IP as well, right?
24:53Yeah.
24:54Where you're like, this came from nowhere.
24:55This came from the Duffer Brothers.
24:56And this was a script that I read in 2014.
25:00Yeah.
25:01And really, nobody was interested
25:03because the rule back then was,
25:04you don't make a show with kids that isn't for kids.
25:06Right.
25:07And that opening weekend, I think it was July of 2016,
25:10at that point, Netflix proudly didn't share viewership data.
25:15So, I remember that it was literally, like, online
25:18and social media.
25:19And I called up Matt and Ross, and I was like,
25:21guys, a lot of people seem to be talking about our show.
25:24And it was, like, the next day.
25:26And that was my first sense of,
25:28oh, this is something unique.
25:31And then it just grew from there over a decade.
25:33And not just in North America,
25:35but kind of shockingly everywhere.
25:37I heard that the Duffer Brothers' nickname for you
25:41was the Warlock.
25:42This is true.
25:43Which couldn't be negative or positive.
25:45I get that.
25:46But I think they used it in a positive way.
25:47I get that.
25:48No, they did.
25:49And I mean, I will confess.
25:50I don't know if it's just me,
25:51but I think we all really wish we had a nickname.
25:54Yeah.
25:55Like, I remember when I was young,
25:56I was like, call me Spike.
25:57Yeah.
25:58Right?
25:59Or, like, I was a fast runner,
26:00so I was like, they call me Flash.
26:02But the truth is, like, nobody called me Spike or the Flash.
26:05But then the most amazing thing happened,
26:09like, in the middle of my life,
26:10is I got an organically earned nickname.
26:13Yeah.
26:14We were making season one of the show,
26:16and there was a scene where Eleven levitates the Millennium Falcon.
26:20Yes.
26:21And, you know, you tell Netflix we need permission,
26:23and they came back and said, no, no permission.
26:25Right.
26:26The answer is no.
26:27You got to have her levitate something else.
26:29And Matt and Ross called me, and they're like,
26:31do you think there's any way you could get that answer to change?
26:34And so I, at that point, I did not know Kathleen Kennedy.
26:38I reached out.
26:39She was running Lucasfilm.
26:40And I basically begged.
26:42And the no became a yes.
26:44And they were like, well, okay.
26:45And then, like, a few months later,
26:47we wanted to use Michael Jackson's Thriller in our trailer.
26:50And the answer was a hard pass from Michael Jackson's date.
26:53Sure.
26:54And the Duffers called me.
26:55And so I just had this run of weird, menial tasks.
27:00Where I turned a no into a yes.
27:02And they started calling me Warlock.
27:04And it's still what they call me.
27:05I mean, it's a really.
27:06Right?
27:07One, to get a late in life nickname.
27:08And two, to get it from the Duffer brothers,
27:10who are, like, great at, like, building lore.
27:12You know what?
27:13I never thought of it that way.
27:14Yeah.
27:15And it's even better than Spike or The Flash.
27:18Yeah.
27:19So I feel like I just, I won.
27:20Yeah, Spike and The Flash were, like, famously already taken.
27:23Although if that, if that was a TV show,
27:25I would love to watch Spike and The Flash.
27:27By the way, not all the kids aged well.
27:29I can't remember what they looked like in the first season.
27:31Yeah, I know.
27:32That.
27:33This is the photo I wanted to show.
27:35What other gifts do you have to share there, Seth?
27:37Well, this, I wanted to show a picture of you
27:39and your beautiful family.
27:40So this was Walk of Fame.
27:42That is my wife.
27:43The Canadian Walk of Fame.
27:44Right.
27:45So this one here, that's the one who loves her, Sethi.
27:46Yep.
27:47Right.
27:48And the other four are my four daughters.
27:50And, yeah, there's a Canada Walk of Fame.
27:52And they asked if they could honor me with a star
27:55on the Walk of Fame.
27:56But, and it was a fun, a fun night.
27:58But the best part is that they had my daughters
28:01present me with the award.
28:02And so, I mean, I think any of us who are parents,
28:05like, all we want to do is earn a connection
28:09and the respect of our kids.
28:11Yeah.
28:12And I just want to keep earning it for the rest of my life
28:14and never bitterly disappointed.
28:16All right.
28:17Well, I think you're off to a decent start.
28:19So far, so good.
28:20Thank you so much for being here.
28:21Thank you, Seth.
28:22Congrats on the show.
28:23You guys, Sean Levy's Change of Things is available
28:25to stream on Netflix.
28:26We'll be right back with Andrew Ross Sarko.
28:28Our next guest is an award-winning journalist, author,
28:44and co-host of CNBC's Squawk Box.
28:47His book, 1929, Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History
28:51and How It Shattered a Nation is currently
28:53a number one New York Times bestseller.
28:55Please welcome to the show my friend Andrew Ross Sarko, everybody.
29:12Hello. I'm so happy to see you.
29:14Thank you for having me.
29:15You know, I've been out with you.
29:16I've been lucky enough to be at dinner parties with you.
29:19Yes.
29:20And as a financial reporter, I've noticed
29:22in the time I'm with you that people want to ask you
29:25about financial advice.
29:26Does that happen everywhere you go?
29:28A lot.
29:29Yeah.
29:30Yes.
29:31Are people satisfied with the answers you give them?
29:32Never.
29:33Because you go through an airport and they say NVIDIA,
29:35or they say Bitcoin, or gold, or silver,
29:38and I look at them and basically say,
29:40I wouldn't be at this airport if I knew the answer.
29:42Right.
29:43Well, that's a good point.
29:44Yeah.
29:45If you're flying domestic, or I'm sorry,
29:46if you're flying commercial, yeah.
29:48They're like, this guy's not as smart as he seems on TV.
29:51Just play one on TV.
29:52But you also are not allowed to, as a financial reporter,
29:56you can't actually buy individual stocks.
29:58True.
29:59So I've never actually bought and sold individual stocks at all.
30:03In fact, as a journalist, the whole point is that
30:05I can actually tell you whether such and such company is good
30:08or bad or whatever it is and feel independent.
30:10That's the whole idea.
30:11We have rules, both at CNBC, at the New York Times,
30:14about what we can do.
30:15These are rules, by the way, that our government officials,
30:19by the way, do not have, at least at this moment.
30:22Well, it's fascinating, too, because, you know,
30:24the other difference between you and the government
30:26is they are in meetings where they're actually hearing
30:29information earlier than normal.
30:31Yes, I like to think I'm early.
30:33They're really early.
30:34They're really early.
30:35And not because they have good sources.
30:37They're literally just people are telling them information.
30:39They are the sources.
30:40They're the source.
30:41There's been a bipartisan effort, it should be noted,
30:43to try to, you know, put the same limitations on members
30:46of Congress as there are on journalists who cover these fields.
30:51Do you think there's any chance of it passing?
30:53Look, there's been going...
30:54People have been talking about trying to do this forever.
30:56And this is something that I think everybody would agree.
30:58You know, our congressmen should not be owning stocks
31:02after hearing...
31:03I mean, by the way...
31:04Yeah.
31:05There are people...
31:06I don't know if you saw this.
31:07It's not just the stock market.
31:09Now there's these prediction markets.
31:10Polymarket, Calci.
31:11Yeah.
31:12On Friday of just last week,
31:14with this whole situation in Venezuela,
31:16somebody made $400,000 literally betting,
31:19and clearly, I imagine, knew that something was about
31:22to happen this weekend.
31:23Sure.
31:24So, yes, there is a bill on the table right now
31:26that would prevent Congress from doing this.
31:29Basically, everybody's prevented from doing this,
31:32except for one person.
31:33Who do you think?
31:34Yeah.
31:35Is this...
31:36DJT?
31:37Are those the initials?
31:38He lives in 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
31:40Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:41So, he would be effectively off the table.
31:45I mean, he could still trade, do whatever.
31:47Yeah.
31:48Everybody else couldn't.
31:49But for years, people have been talking about trying to do this,
31:51and Congress and the Senate have never wanted
31:53to do this to themselves.
31:54I used to actually write columns.
31:56I remember talking to folks at the SEC,
31:59which regulates this industry.
32:01By the way, it regulates insider trading.
32:02Yeah.
32:03CEOs, business leaders, are not allowed
32:05to trade back and forth willy-nilly,
32:08especially when they know information.
32:09That's technically illegal.
32:11And when you go and you talk to the head of the SEC
32:13and say, why don't you regulate this?
32:14And why don't you put in some rules and regulations?
32:17They say, guess who funds us?
32:19Yeah, there you go.
32:20Congress.
32:21Yeah.
32:22So, if you follow the money, you can understand everything.
32:24Well, I would like to follow the oil
32:26for my next question.
32:27You mentioned Venezuela.
32:28And I think a lot of people have this assumption
32:31that maybe what happened this week is based on the fact
32:34that Venezuela is an oil-rich country.
32:37Right.
32:38Yet, you know, I think for somebody like a layman like myself,
32:41I think that you can just go in and it's very easy
32:43to get the oil.
32:44That is not the case in a country like Venezuela.
32:47Look, I think that whatever we're hearing in terms of
32:49headlines out of the White House or otherwise,
32:51saying this is going to be some kind of boondoggle
32:53for oil companies.
32:54They're all going to go in there.
32:55They're going to extract oil.
32:56They're going to create cheap oil for Americans.
32:59This is like a tens-of-billions-of-dollar project
33:02that would take literally years,
33:05potentially decades,
33:07way after President Trump is going to be in office.
33:10Maybe.
33:14And, no, but...
33:16So part of the issue is, effectively,
33:19whoever these oil companies are that may want to do this,
33:22even if they wanted to do this,
33:24and it's not even clear they would,
33:25because ultimately, by the way,
33:27there's going to be a price tag on all this.
33:29Oil companies actually don't want lower oil prices.
33:32Yeah.
33:33And so increasing the supply of oil,
33:35not always helpful.
33:37But I say that because the other piece of this is,
33:40if this does take decades,
33:42and who knows what the politics of Venezuela
33:45are going to turn out to be,
33:46all that uncertainty means that most oil companies,
33:50especially CEOs of publicly-traded companies,
33:52they don't want to go in there.
33:53They don't want their employees getting killed.
33:55They don't know what's going to happen.
33:56Yeah.
33:57So this is just...
33:58I don't want to say it's a pipe dream,
34:00but I think it's a long ways out
34:02until we actually see something like that.
34:04All right. Well, I take the other side.
34:05I think he has a plan,
34:06and we're going to see results fast.
34:11Hey, congratulations.
34:13This book is fantastic.
34:15And it's not the first time
34:16that I've read one of your books
34:17that is about something that, you know,
34:19I don't feel like I fully understand the economy
34:21or anything of that matter.
34:23You write it so that even somebody like me...
34:26It's just a thrilling read.
34:29By the way, it's trying to be like...
34:31You're trying to write like a novel.
34:32Yes.
34:33And it reads like a novel
34:34because I think sometimes we think these books...
34:36You know, we think about a stock market crash.
34:37We think about, you know...
34:39We do think about, you know, the economy.
34:41Right.
34:42We think about numbers.
34:43And really, it's about people.
34:44Always.
34:45And it's immediately...
34:46You, you know, introduced us
34:47to all these great real-life characters.
34:49How soon, when you worked on this book,
34:51did you realize, oh, this...
34:52I can write this like a novel.
34:53I can write this like a page-turner.
34:54Because it is a page-turner.
34:55So that's what I wanted to do.
34:56And the truth was there have been some amazing books
34:58written about this period,
34:59but mostly by economists and people back even in the 50s.
35:02And it wasn't until I actually landed at a library
35:05and started opening up boxes
35:06and seeing transcripts
35:07that the secretary of a leading banker in New York
35:11had been keeping during his phone calls
35:14with Roosevelt and Hoover
35:16that I thought, okay, you could really do this
35:18because you could put people in the room
35:19so they could actually see what was really happening.
35:21I think we all have sort of a perception
35:23that something terrible happened in 1929.
35:26There was a stock market crash,
35:27and then the Great Depression happened.
35:29And that's so not what really happened.
35:31It's such a more intricate, crazy...
35:33It's a drama.
35:34It's a soap opera is what it is.
35:35Yes. And people are very human
35:37in the same way that they're human now.
35:38I think, you know,
35:40there's a lot of vanity involved in things like this.
35:43There's a lot of not wanting to admit how bad things are because...
35:46Always. Yeah.
35:47And so many of the characters are exactly like the people today.
35:51There's a character that's like Jamie Dimon,
35:52who runs J.P. Morgan today.
35:54There's a character like Elon Musk.
35:55There's a character that probably you'd think of
35:57as like a Sam Altman kind.
35:58So they're all...
36:00It's almost like history does repeat.
36:02And by the way, we had tariffs in 1932.
36:04So...
36:05And how'd they go?
36:07No spoilers.
36:08No spoilers.
36:09No spoilers.
36:10You know, another thing, you know, we talked about...
36:12Local trade dropped by 60%.
36:14That's the answer.
36:15You know, one thing is, I believe Hoover is the one
36:18who basically tries to keep telling the Americans
36:20that things are actually better than they are perceiving it.
36:24This is...
36:25Time-tested by both presidents.
36:26Yes.
36:27So, you know, and again, like, another bipartisan thing is we've,
36:30you know, had back-to-back presidents, Donald Trump,
36:32and also, you know, President Biden, who told Americans, you know,
36:35I know you think there's an affordability crisis,
36:37but there's actually not.
36:38And ultimately, politicians are in a tough place
36:41when they're trying to tell Americans how much things cost.
36:43You can't tell people how they're supposed to feel
36:46when they go to the supermarket.
36:47And I think we saw this, by the way, under Biden, as you said.
36:50I think we're seeing this under President Trump.
36:52You know, Hoover was literally trying to put up billboards,
36:55telling people, literally, if you just smile and feel good,
36:58things will be better.
36:59Now, there wasn't TikTok back then, but, you know,
37:02people go to the supermarket today, and you can see them.
37:04They're showing you the price of things, and they know how they feel,
37:07and things are, I hate to say, less affordable
37:10than we want them to be.
37:12You got into this business as a young man.
37:14How old were you when you first started at The New York Times?
37:17I was 18 years old.
37:18So, 18 years old, and how did you get assigned your first story?
37:21So, I was in high school. I wasn't supposed to be there.
37:24Okay.
37:25I had actually talked my way into the building,
37:27sort of as a pseudo unofficial intern.
37:29But nobody had hired you?
37:31No, no, I was literally Xeroxing, stapling, and getting coffee
37:34for a reporter that I was a huge fan of.
37:36And I was almost just shadowing him.
37:38Got it.
37:39And then there was an editor who overheard me
37:42talk about this thing called the Internet.
37:44This is back in 1995.
37:46Yeah.
37:47She thought I was like a real person.
37:49She thought I was like a college grad who was, you know,
37:52capable of something.
37:55But she didn't know that I hadn't graduated from high school.
37:58Right.
37:59And then she would assign me a 500-word story to write.
38:02And is it true that your first story was about the sound
38:04modems make?
38:05It was that...
38:06Do people even know what a modem is?
38:09My kids don't know what a modem is.
38:10Yeah.
38:11Do you remember that sort of mating noise?
38:13Yeah, of course.
38:14I mean, that's not how I thought of it, but...
38:17So, she had said to me, what is that noise?
38:19Yeah.
38:20And I explained to her, I called it like a mating signal
38:23that the two modems...
38:24And she said, oh, that's great.
38:25You should go write that.
38:26Gotcha.
38:27And that's how I started my career.
38:29And then did she...
38:30When did she find out that she had given the coffee kid
38:32an assignment?
38:33Like a week and a half later.
38:35Yeah.
38:36After it was in the paper, happily.
38:37Okay, gotcha.
38:38And then your first byline, what was your first story
38:41with a byline?
38:42First story with a byline was another esoteric question
38:45of the computer age.
38:46Why aren't computers pink?
38:48Okay.
38:49You remember how they're always that beige-y gray back then?
38:51Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:52So, that was that article.
38:55And you might appreciate this.
38:57So, I go by Andrew Ross Sorkin.
38:59It's a...
39:00I don't know if people think it's maybe a little too much,
39:01the three-name pretentious thing.
39:03But the truth is, that came from my...
39:07That came from the first byline that I ever had,
39:09because I...
39:10That's my mother's maiden name, so you can steal my credit card now.
39:13And I had always gone by Andrew Sorkin.
39:16I still do.
39:17I think when I see you, I just say Andrew Sorkin.
39:19But I had...
39:20And I'm always like, we met.
39:21Stop introducing yourself.
39:24But I had lunch with my grandfather, my mother's father,
39:27the day before the article was published.
39:29And he said, Andrew, you got to use your full name in the paper.
39:33This is going to be like our first and last time
39:35it'll ever be there.
39:37So...
39:38I mean, I will say, Andrew Ross Sorkin is a guy...
39:40I mean, Andrew Sorkin, like, forget about it,
39:42but I'll read a book by Andrew Ross Sorkin.
39:43I mean, this guy, this guy knows what he's doing.
39:45The book's great.
39:47I'm not surprised.
39:48Thank you for being here.
39:49It's such a pleasure.
39:50Andrew Ross Sorkin, everybody.
39:511929 is available now.
40:06Come join the audience at Late Night live in Studio AG.
40:09For tickets, head over to LatenightSethTickets.com.
40:12Follow us at Late Night Seth on all social media platforms.
40:15Subscribe to Late Night Seth on YouTube.
40:17Find us online at LateNightSeth.com.
40:20And subscribe to the Late Night Podcast,
40:22featuring a closer look, guest interviews, and more.
40:25Available wherever you listen to podcasts.
40:35I want to thank my guests, Kyle Anthony Towns, Sean Levy,
40:38Andrew Ross Shorkin, everybody.
40:39Thank you all for watching. We love you.
40:50We love you.
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