- 2 days ago
This edition of News Today examines the US President Trump's 'Donro Doctrine,' detailing the administration's reported seizure of Venezuelan and Russian oil tankers and the capture of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching News Today at 9pm.
00:07I am Preeti Chaudhuri, our big talking point this evening.
00:09Venezuela in his pocket. Trump is eyeing Greenland love.
00:13Don Road Doctrine, World Order Upside Down, Global Superpower, Cop or Backyard Bulli?
00:21And what could be the impact on India?
00:23All of that's coming up over the course of the next 45 minutes.
00:30All right, let's quickly begin with news break that is coming in.
00:36Two Venezuelan-linked oil tankers has been seized by the U.S.
00:40Russian oil tankers, also seized by U.S. forces.
00:43U.S. has seized Russian oil tanker in the north of Atlantic.
00:47U.S. Secretary of War has said sanctioned Venezuelan oil blocked.
00:52Russia slams U.S., calls it outright piracy,
00:55and also says the situation extremely abnormal, that they are monitoring it.
01:00My colleague Prane Upabdaya, editor of India Today Global, joins us live from the newsroom.
01:04Prane, what more can you add?
01:06There seems to be another flashpoint which is coming up between the Russian Federation
01:10and the United States government in the Atlantic Sea,
01:13because the seizure of a Russian-flagged ship is going to be another confrontation
01:18between these two powerful states.
01:20And what we are learning is that the U.S. Navy is strictly deploying their military assets
01:26and asserting that they are going to enforce the Venezuelan oil blockade
01:31on the Venezuelan oil imports and exports.
01:33And as Secretary Marco Rubio has clearly clarified and he stated,
01:37that the U.S. Navy, U.S. military will enforce and ensure that no oil tanker will go in to the Venezuela
01:45or will come out of the Venezuelan port.
01:48And in that effort, the U.S. military, the U.S. Southern Command,
01:52has, you know, they have captured a ship, a merchant ship, M.T. Sophia,
02:00and another ship, M.T. Bella 1, which is believed to be a Russian oil tanker
02:04in the northern Atlantic around the Iceland.
02:07And the Russian government has also acknowledged Priti.
02:09And now we are waiting for the Russian government's reaction,
02:12because meanwhile, some of the reaction coming from Moscow clearly indicating
02:15that Russia is calling it outright piracy in high seas,
02:20because Russia has acknowledged, the Russian foreign ministry has acknowledged
02:23that for some, from the last few days, their ship is being tracked by the U.S. ships,
02:28U.S. Kozga ships, and the United States government's argument is
02:31that these ships are involved in the export and trading of the illegal Venezuelan oil
02:37and U.S. is only enforcing, there are some, you know, the court indictment
02:43and court proceedings against these ships,
02:46and therefore the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and U.S. Coast Guard
02:50has only enforced, you know, those orders by the way of seizure of these ships.
02:56Pranay, I appreciate you joining us.
02:58Dramatic developments that are taking place, we are going to keep a keen eye on those.
03:02Russia has called U.S. practical pirates, piracy in the high seas,
03:06saying their vessel was completely legal.
03:09United States says not, but right now that tanker has been seized.
03:13We're going to continue to get you more, but let's quickly move on.
03:16United States is dramatically reshaping geopolitical fault lines,
03:21first with the capture of Venezuelan President Maduro
03:23in what the world is now calling an illegitimate military operation,
03:27and now with Trump setting his eyes on Greenland,
03:31an autonomous Danish territory long seen as off-limits.
03:36Both these moves have sent shockwaves across the world,
03:38promoting fierce diplomatic pushback and has raised urgent questions
03:43about Trump's ambitions and the future of geopolitics.
03:55Days after the U.S. forces captured Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro
03:59and his wife, Celia Flores,
04:01President Donald Trump has outlined his plan for the Latin American country.
04:06In a social media post, Trump declared that the interim government of Venezuela
04:10will be turning over 30 to 50 million barrels of high-quality sanctioned oil to the U.S.
04:16This, he claimed, will be sold at market price.
04:20The money will be controlled by him
04:21and it will be used to benefit the people of the U.S. and Venezuela.
04:26Trump is still basking in the success of the military operation.
04:30Addressing House Republicans at the Kennedy Center,
04:32he recounted how American forces carried out the mission.
04:38It was so complex.
04:40152 airplanes, many, many.
04:42Talk about boots on the ground.
04:43We had a lot of boots on the ground.
04:45But it was amazing.
04:46And think of it, nobody was killed.
04:48And on the other side, a lot of people were killed.
04:50Unfortunately, I say that, soldiers.
04:53Cubans, mostly Cubans, but many, many killed.
04:56And they were, they knew we were coming and they were protected and our guys weren't.
05:01You know, our guys are jumping out of helicopters and they're not protected.
05:05And they were, but it was so brilliant.
05:07The electricity for almost the entire country was, boom, turned off.
05:13That's when they knew there was a problem.
05:15There was no electricity.
05:18Trump is not done yet.
05:20The U.S. president has now set his eyes on Greenland.
05:23We need Greenland from a national security situation.
05:30It's so strategic.
05:31Right now, Greenland is covered with Russian and Chinese ships all over the place.
05:37We need Greenland from the standpoint of national security.
05:41And Denmark is not going to be able to do it, I can tell you.
05:45U.S. media reports claim Trump has already told his team
05:48to prepare a plan to take Greenland, an autonomous territory, under Denmark's control.
05:54According to media reports, Secretary of State Marco Rubio has told Republican lawmakers
05:59Trump plans to buy Greenland.
06:02Another Trump aide deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller, in an interview claimed
06:07nobody is going to fight the U.S. militarily over the future of Greenland.
06:11Denmark's Prime Minister, Mehta Federiksen, has reacted strongly to Trump's administration's
06:17plan to take over Greenland, saying a military action will mark the end of NATO.
06:26Firstly, I believe that the American president should be taken seriously when he says that
06:31he wants Greenland.
06:32But I also want to make it clear that if the United States chooses to attack another NATO
06:37country militarily, then everything stops.
06:40That is, including our NATO and thus, the security that has been provided since the end of the
06:45Second World War.
06:48Leaders from the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Poland, Spain and Denmark issued a joint statement
06:54insisting that Greenland belongs to its people and only Denmark and Greenland can decide its
06:59future.
06:59Meanwhile, India has raised concerns over developments in Venezuela and urged nations to prioritise
07:06people's interests.
07:09Yes, you know, we are concerned about the developments, but we would really urge all the parties involved
07:16to now sit down and sort of come to a position which is in the interests of the well-being
07:23and the safety of the people of Venezuela.
07:28Because at the end of the day, that is our answer.
07:32Trump's project to control the Western Hemisphere is being called the Donro Doctrine, a name
07:36inspired by the Monroe Doctrine of 1823 that aimed at stopping European colonial powers.
07:43This time the objective, according to Trump supporters, is to check Chinese influence in
07:47America's backyard.
07:49With Geeta Mohan, Bureau Report, India Today.
07:51All right, let's quickly dip into more news break coming in.
08:03It seems President Donald Trump has just posted on Social Media X a day after European leaders
08:09criticised Trump over Greenland.
08:11Trump has lashed out at NATO allies.
08:13This is a post on the Social Media X where President Trump says Russia and China have zero
08:19fear of NATO without the United States.
08:21Doubt NATO would be there for us if we really need them.
08:25A long post also says that he ended eight wars and NATO members foolishly chose not to give
08:33me a Nobel Peace Prize.
08:36That's a social media post coming in where President Donald Trump is concerned.
08:41We're going to get more on that.
08:43But the big questions that we are posing this evening, the Donro Doctrine now turning the
08:47world order upside down where spheres of influence are concerned.
08:51America playing global super cop or a backyard bully.
08:56China has called America a bully.
08:58You have just a short while ago Russia saying that the Americans are resorting to be pirates
09:04where the high seas are concerned.
09:06Who is next on Trump's list?
09:08Greenland.
09:09What is Trump's message to China and what does the new order mean for India?
09:14Let's take all these questions to our panelists this evening.
09:17Ambassador Navtej Sarna, India, former ambassador to the US, joins us.
09:21Aina Tanjun, Senior Fellow Center for International Governance, Innovation and Chairman of Asia
09:26Narratives 15th Initiative.
09:29Edward Luce, Associate Editor at the FT, US-based writer, columnist.
09:34David Goldwyn, CEO, Goldwyn Global Strategies, Chair Atlantic Council, Energy Advisor Group,
09:41former State Department for International Affairs of Energy Policy Thought Leader.
09:46Let's quickly get the conversation started and let's begin with you, Mr. Goldwyn.
09:51What seemed like a dystopian fantasy is now seemingly being put together piece by piece
09:57where President Trump is concerned.
09:59What do you think is next?
10:01Well, I think the president is flexing worldwide his power.
10:07I think a lot of what's going on in Venezuela is really just about showing American force.
10:11A lot of what the president is saying about taking over the industry, about running Venezuela
10:15is really not happening.
10:17I would put Greenland in the same category.
10:20You know, a U.S. president does not have the power to appropriate new territories.
10:24That power under Article 4 of our Constitution belongs to the Congress.
10:28He's not going to get an appropriation to purchase Greenland.
10:32We're not going to have an occupying force in Greenland to try and seize it.
10:36And none of what the president seeks there, whether that's we have a military base,
10:39whether that's the ability to police the Arctic or the ability to extract resources requires this.
10:45This is so I think, you know, bullying is a, you know, bullying is a provocative term,
10:49but I think this is really about showing dominance, pure and simple, not just energy dominance.
10:54The president's flexing American power in order to be able to coerce policies and outcomes that he wants.
11:00So I think we're seeing some backlash among the MAGA movement to some of this.
11:05But right now, this is all really, I would say, primarily performative.
11:10We can talk a little bit about what's happening in Venezuela, if you like,
11:13in terms of the seizure of oil and things like that.
11:16But right now, you know, the president has deployed a great deal of military force
11:21and he has removed one individual from Venezuela.
11:25But just to focus on Venezuela for a second, we don't have regime change.
11:29We have the same people in place.
11:31Very little has changed other than the flexing of American muscle.
11:34And I think the president likes that and I think we're likely to see more of it.
11:38All right, we're likely to see more of it.
11:41Edward Luce, would you want to weigh in on that?
11:43Are we looking at Greenland immediately next after invading Venezuela?
11:47What are we really looking at?
11:49Marco Rubio, in a classified briefing, had said that U.S. would want to buy Greenland.
11:54And the recent rhetoric does not quite signal an imminent invasion where Greenland is concerned.
12:00But you've had President Trump who's saying that he's weighing all options, including the military option.
12:05Yeah, look, I'm not sure I'd buy the move-along, nothing-to-see-here line.
12:12I know that's a slightly unfair characterization of Mr. Goldwyn's summary,
12:17but he didn't just remove one individual from Venezuela.
12:20He removed the head of state.
12:22He abducted the head of state.
12:23Mr. Luce, can I, can I, I'm sorry I'm interrupting you.
12:25And the reason I'm doing it is because your audio is very, very unclear.
12:28We're going to try and correct that and fix it and come right back to you.
12:31I want to bring in Ambassador Naptej Sarna, meanwhile.
12:34Ambassador Naptej Sarna, what do you make of the current developments?
12:37Because at one end, you'd have, you know, Marco Rubio suggest that this is not,
12:41that Greenland would be, in all possibility, bought over.
12:44You know, the current rhetoric of an invasion of Greenland is not true.
12:48But what's coming in from the President of the United States is very different.
12:52He's saying all options are on the table, including the military option.
12:56Well, I think, thank you, Preeti.
12:58I think there is a lot of daylight between all the statements that are coming in.
13:03And frankly, at the moment, I think you're asking me to predict the unpredictable.
13:09President Trump is on a high.
13:12He's on the riding on the basis of the Venezuelan success in which he didn't bother about the U.S. Congress.
13:20And of course, he doesn't bother about the U.N.
13:22And he's not going to bother about NATO.
13:25He's enjoying playing commander in chief.
13:28He knows there can be no military opposition if he wants to do it.
13:32And he'll handle all the problems later.
13:34They may not use it, ultimately, because, frankly, they don't need to use military force.
13:41They, you know, the Europeans, the Denmark, the people of Greenland, would be, I'm sure, happy to have an adjustment where the security aspects can be taken care of.
13:54It's the U.S. which has gone, removed its presence.
13:58During the Cold War, they had 10,000 people.
14:00Now they have 200 people and they have one base.
14:04If they were to put other bases, they could do so.
14:06But I think a lot of this is President Trump playing out in practice the Don Roe Doctrine.
14:15He's showing he's the boss in the Western Hemisphere and he can do anything he wants.
14:21And frankly, at the moment, he can do anything he wants.
14:25You know, Ambassador Navtej, we'll also, you know, touch on, because right after he'd taken over, there was a lot of talks that he's a strong believer of spheres of influence.
14:36And that's practically playing out right now as we see it.
14:39You know, possibly the Western Hemisphere, where the Americas are concerned, it is for America to take.
14:45And we can see that happen where it seems he's going to leave Russia, you know, to Putin and Asia to China, which is very, very some for us back here in India.
14:54Well, certainly, if you go into a season of spheres of influence, it's not good, certainly for countries like India and for a lot of other countries.
15:06And spheres of influence are not always perfect.
15:09There can be disputes there.
15:11And, of course, it doesn't mean that the power play that the U.S. can do in the Western Hemisphere.
15:17I'm not sure that China can actually do it in what becomes its sphere of influence.
15:22There'll be far stronger resistance.
15:26And, frankly, you know, Russia is already trying to do it in Ukraine.
15:31And the ones that are really going to suffer at the moment are the Ukrainians and the Europeans, because they don't seem to fall into anybody's sphere of influence and they will have to resist it.
15:43So spheres of influence is not the way a modern world can go.
15:47We have removed the guardrails.
15:50We have removed the system that existed, that kept peace, relative global peace for 75 years.
15:58And today you are, whether we like it or not, we are moving into a conflict zone.
16:04Let us hope and pray that this doesn't go into global conflict.
16:08But what we are seeing today is very disturbing.
16:12Well, and it's far from what usually, you know, would happen in the modern world, Ambassador Navtej, to subjugate your neighbor, to steal its resources.
16:20It's actually playing out.
16:21Like I said, the dystopian fantasy now being pieced together.
16:24If we have Edward Luce back with us, can we, okay, we do have him.
16:28All right, we're trying to correct that.
16:29But, you know, taking on the conversation where China's reaction is concerned.
16:34Ina Tangent, would you want to weigh in on that?
16:35You know, there's two different parts to the reaction of China.
16:41Obviously, they're concerned about what the United States is doing.
16:46And I would say that it's being roundly condemned and in no uncertain language.
16:51I'm surprised that my colleagues right now refuse to do it.
16:56They can kind of talk about it as if it's a chess game.
16:58But we are, in fact, facing a real crisis.
17:03If the global order breaks down according to the way that Trump does it, it's every country for themselves.
17:10The powerful will take and the weak will be taken from.
17:13This is the return of the colonial system.
17:15So, in the short term, China's concerned.
17:18They put in over $65 billion in investments into Venezuela, some for oil, some for infrastructure projects, etc.
17:29So, obviously, and they get about 4%, between 2% and 4% of their imported oil from Venezuela.
17:37So, they can stand this.
17:40It's an issue.
17:41The question is, what is the U.S. going to do after they've extorted the $2 billion in oil that they say that Venezuela has to give them?
17:53It's unknown.
17:54But then there's this other part, and that is the long term.
17:58Right now, every country in the world, whether they're paying lip service to the United States because they're fearful that they will be targeted next, is in the back rooms definitely looking to see how they can de-risk from the United States.
18:13The U.S. is no longer a reliable partner.
18:16It has shown itself to be the very authoritarian hegemon that they said everyone should be afraid of.
18:23They've accused Russia of this, accused China of it, accused everybody of it, but they do it themselves.
18:29So, at this point, China is looking to weigh its options.
18:33They're not going to get into a kinetic fight.
18:37There is no way that they can sail their navy to South America and start a war, or do they want to?
18:44It wouldn't solve anything.
18:46The long-term issue is, will the countries of the rest of the world, like at the climate change conference, suddenly at COP30, suddenly realize that if they want a better world, they're going to have to make it themselves.
19:00They can't rely on the former European colonial powers or the American hegemon to do it for them.
19:07And if they come together and they go to the United States, it'll be a taco moment.
19:13Donald Trump can fight one or two nations, but he cannot fight all of them.
19:19It's unfortunate that, so far, we haven't had the kind of unity that would be necessary to force him to do his taco move.
19:26Trump always chickens out.
19:28Okay, but we haven't even kind of seen the kind of condemnation and criticism that one would have expected coming in from all other countries, including China, other than calling him a bully.
19:39China hasn't really, you know, made a statement which is strong enough.
19:43But, you know, cutting across to Mr. Goldwyn.
19:46Mr. Goldwyn, circling back to Greenland and with what the kind of commentary we've seen of late, it started off where Venezuela was concerned to take out a dictator.
19:57It wasn't about taking out a dictator.
19:59It was about oil.
20:00Where Greenland is concerned, you know, the talk is about a strategic move.
20:04It would be good for America, but it's really not a strategic move as much as it is about minerals.
20:09Well, let me say a couple things.
20:13First, you have to appreciate the domestic politics that are going on here.
20:17The U.S. economy is performing poorly.
20:19The president's polls were below 30 percent, probably the worst of either of his presidencies.
20:24He was admired in this Epstein scandal where there are accusations that he was really, you know, involved in potentially criminal activity.
20:32And this is what, you know, Americans kind of call wag the dog.
20:35And this is we have managed to take all of those issues off the headlines and the president is distracting it with foreign adventurism.
20:41This is not the first president to do this.
20:43But in terms of domestic politics, that's what's that's what's really going on here.
20:47Second, I think, as Einar said, and I think Edward Luce before he came off was asserting, this is being significantly condemned, you know, in the United States.
20:54This is not popular in the United States, and that's because this is terrible for U.S. interests.
20:59I mean, anything that we have wanted to do around the world, whether that is, you know, containing Iranian adventurism or others, have required allies and coalitions for the enforcement of sanctions and for the prosecution of issues, not to mention climate change or transnational crime or anything else.
21:14So the U.S. is ceding its power, the balance of power has, you know, the way it always works.
21:18Countries will align against the United States now to contain us, you know, if we if it engages in this kind of adventurism.
21:25And so I think that's that's been been really quite, you know, quite, quite, quite negative.
21:30And I think a lot of what the president is doing so far by picking on weaker allies or not weaker allies, but picking on weaker countries is he is able to act tough without taking on real action.
21:41You know, in terms of spheres of influence, this is about U.S. dominance in the Western Hemisphere.
21:46And Cuba is probably next on his list.
21:48And if I was Nicaragua, I would worry also.
21:50But that does not mean that the president is ceding spheres of influence to Russia or to China.
21:56It does not mean that the president has, you know, is going to give China license on Taiwan, where the semiconductor industry remains very important to U.S. national security interests.
22:05And he's all over the place on Russia, clearly not afraid to provoke them by seizing their tanker this morning.
22:10But he's really trying to pressure both sides into, you know, into an unwelcome ceasefire in the Russia-Ukraine context.
22:19So I would not be I would not believe that because the United States is asserting dominance in its own hemisphere, that it is ceding influence or dominance in other hemispheres.
22:28This is, you know, the Don Roe doctrine is really about, you know, Donald Trump asserting influence where he chooses to assert influence.
22:35But his ability to affect real change bears scrutiny.
22:39And I think we need to get past the headlines for some realism here, which is, you know, is Donald Trump really running Venezuela?
22:46No, we're influencing the sale of some sales of oil on tankers in a way that, frankly, helps the regime avoid shutting in production.
22:55Is he really going to take over Greenland?
22:57No, he's not.
22:58He's not going to buy it.
22:59He's not going to occupy it.
23:01And we don't really need it in the first place.
23:03So I think, you know, the media tends to latch on to a lot of this bluster and see the president sort of, in a sense, more efficaciousness than he may deserve.
23:13So this is about dominating the news.
23:16It's about dominating the lines.
23:17It's about distracting the American public from what's going on inside the country.
23:21And so I think you have to take each of these actions and look very carefully about, you know, can it be accomplished, what is being accomplished, and will it last?
23:30Because he's moved on to Greenland because it turns out Venezuela is a lot more complicated than it seems.
23:36So he's not going to be running Venezuela.
23:38So look over here.
23:39Now we're talking about Greenland purely as a distraction.
23:43Ambassador Naftir, do you concur with Mr. Goldwyn?
23:46Because a lot of bluster at times of President Trump he's actually acted on.
23:50Yes, I'm afraid I would nuance that a bit.
23:55I mean, with all due respect to Mr. Goldwyn, he has a very good, made a very good point.
24:01But I think I'm less convinced that Mr. Donald Trump is only doing this for the news headlines.
24:10Yes, he needs distractions.
24:11And going into Greenland would be a great feather in his MAGA cap, because the success of Venezuela has gone down very well with the MAGA crowd.
24:22And Greenland, if he goes in without an American soldier being killed, which he can, would be great.
24:28At the same time, the Epstein files is a pressure point.
24:31The upcoming midterms are a pressure point.
24:34The following polls are a pressure point.
24:37I absolutely agree.
24:39But I think at the moment he is trying to demonstrate stuff.
24:44And it could be Greenland or it could be Cuba.
24:48It could be Colombia.
24:50You know, he's asked the president of Colombia, excuse the language, but it's Mr. Trump's language to watch his ass.
24:56So, you don't know where it's going to go.
25:00And he says Mexico.
25:02I mean, if and that's all Western Hemisphere.
25:06And if he's using the use of force, he is at least in the midterms, certainly not going to care about the U.S. Congress.
25:16So I would be chery of giving him, you know, such a benefit of doubt.
25:22I think the world has to prepare for a time where international law, the idea of state sovereignty, the idea of the United Nations or the United Nations Security Council stepping in to keep peace, international peace, is over.
25:40We can bring it back.
25:42As one of the interlocutors said, we can bring it back if everybody agrees that we can do a world minus one.
25:50Leave out the United States and strengthen the international organizations again.
25:56But for that, we'd all have to agree.
25:58And that's going to be extremely difficult.
26:00So at the moment, I absolutely agree that it's more or less every country on its own.
26:07And the Europeans are trying to gather together.
26:10But if push comes to shove, I don't know what Europe will do if President Trump really flexes his muscle over Greenland.
26:18And Mr. Tanjin, this could also auger the potential collapse of NATO.
26:24And, you know, but for China, that would, I would reckon, be beneficial.
26:31It would be beneficial in the sense that NATO was an entity that lost its relevance and then started searching for it.
26:40You know, when the Soviet Union collapsed, in theory, so should have NATO.
26:46Because it didn't, it continued to expand.
26:49And that's why we have the situation in Ukraine.
26:54Their expansion concerned the security interests of Russia.
26:59Whether they're right or wrong, this is the way they feel.
27:02And NATO knew it.
27:03So continuing in along that line was bound to result in exactly what happened, a kinetic conflict which has cost tens of thousands of lives and tens of billions of dollars of damages.
27:15So, yes, it would be nice if it went away.
27:18But the fact is, there's still going to be some sort of European pact.
27:23Whether the United States is in it or not, Europe feels independently.
27:27The question is, will these countries ever come together?
27:30Now, I think it is more worrisome.
27:33I agree with my colleague, Mr. Goldman, that this is a situation where Donald Trump is using these things to distract attention.
27:40And I think he will continue to do them as long as it's successful.
27:44He has great fear of the Epstein files, the fact that millions of pages of new documents are suddenly showing up.
27:51And he's not even able to know exactly how many times his name is mentioned or how many pictures of him are in there or if there are videotapes.
27:58So he's concerned.
28:00And also about the MAGA is not supporting this Venezuelan thing.
28:06You've already had Marjorie Taylor Greene and others come out very publicly and say that this is not what Donald Trump promised.
28:13So this idea that MAGA is somewhere behind Trump is nonsense.
28:18Right now it is tearing itself apart.
28:20You have the protesters, not protesters, the mob that attacked on January 6th, attacked the building, attacked the Capitol building.
28:30They're now marching around, reenacting it and demanding they get hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation because they were exonerated and therefore deserve more money.
28:40MAGA is tearing itself apart because it was always a coalition of hate.
28:45It's easy to get people to say there's something wrong here.
28:48Do you agree with me?
28:49Yes.
28:50But why it's wrong and what they want to do is some other thing.
28:54But it's also a coalition which worked on the theory of make America great again.
28:58And, you know, Trump's foreign policy somewhere down the line harks back to, you know, the times of American imperialism.
29:05Ambassador Sarna, you don't quite agree with that, do you?
29:07No, you were shaking your head.
29:10Because I think, you know, MAGA is ultimately a Trump cult.
29:15And as long as Trump is successful, they may have differences, etc.
29:19They will, when it comes to the crunch, they will still back him as long as he's successful.
29:25I mean, after all, he ran on the plank of no forever wars, no intervention.
29:31I mean, what happened to that?
29:32But they're still backing him.
29:36And that is his base as he goes into the midterms.
29:39So unless that begins to break, and I don't think the protests are a sign of MAGA actually breaking, that will break only if Trump comes up to be seen as unsuccessful.
29:50So far, he is successful at his level, in his own way.
29:57He's not successful as a world leader.
30:01He's not successful as a visionary or as a statesman.
30:04He is successful, frankly, to use the word you started with, as a bully.
30:09Mr. Goldwyn, would you want to, you know, would you want to come in on that?
30:16Because with President Trump now, with all the issues that he might have, he's also found maybe a rallying point where MAGA is concerned.
30:25You know, contrary to what maybe Mr. Tangent said, that MAGA is not very happy with what's going on right now.
30:30Well, I think the, I think it's true, I think, as Mr. Tangent has said, that MAGA is a bit of a cult.
30:37And so they seem to be supportive of the president, largely, no matter what he does.
30:41But that's, they're happy with the whip looking tough.
30:44They're happy with the win.
30:46But the president won, not just because of MAGA support, which is, you know, maybe 28, maybe 30 percent of the voting electorate.
30:54He won because a lot of people in the middle were dissatisfied with the Democratic candidates and because they thought he would be a better manager of the economy.
31:01But in a couple of weeks, health care subsidies, which are supporting health care and a lot of the Democratic, not Democratic, a lot of the, you know, the base for the red base for President Trump are going to disappear.
31:14His performance on the economy.
31:16So his policy is not working for a lot of the people in his base, which is why you're seeing a lot of Republican resignations in the House, why you see his poll numbers so low.
31:26So the fact that there is a core of ideological supporters is true, but that will be not sufficient to carry him, his party through the midterms or into the next term.
31:36And there is some dissension, I think, in the ranks, maybe not the pure MAGA base, but a lot of people wondering why he's spending all of this money and all of this attention on other countries rather than on our own country.
31:48And just to take Greenland as an example, you know, they may not have thought this through, but when you're a U.S. territory, the way Guam is or other places, you know, you get Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid benefits.
31:59You have free immigration into the United States.
32:01So I don't know how the MAGA base is going to feel about the U.S. both spending taxpayer money to buy Greenland if that ever happened.
32:09I mean, how many billions of an appropriation, if he could even get it through the Congress, you know, that would cost.
32:14But why they're spending money on that rather than on health care.
32:18And the idea that you're going to be giving them Social Security benefits and health care benefits to people in Greenland, you know, when you're not having adequate care for people in the United States.
32:29So like everything else with Trump, the headline looks really tough.
32:32And when it comes to the implementation and the follow through, this is going to be extremely unpopular, if not, you know, politically impossible, because there's no way you're going to get an appropriation through this Congress, even with a Republican majority, you know, to spend billions of dollars to pay Denmark for Greenland.
32:49So, again, this is, you know, I think the base is eroding, his popularity is eroding, and this is a distraction.
32:55But I think, as both Einar and the Ambassador said, it's incredibly destructive, and it will have long-term damaging results for the United States, for our leadership, for our political ability to form.
33:06But, you know, Mr. Gorgon, I'm just taking final comments there, and Mr. Tangent, would you want to comment, because we've taken a view on the domestic politics, but if you look at internationally, we haven't, you know, it's, the actions of Donald Trump have gone down rather tamely.
33:21We haven't seen that kind of condemnation coming in, you know, unity where, of criticism.
33:26Yeah, I mean, it's because no one wants to be the target of his ire.
33:32Everyone is giving him airplanes and golden baubles and everything like that, paying him whatever, enriching his children, simply to avoid the confrontation.
33:42But we, you know, this is only one year, less than one year of Donald Trump.
33:46You know, we're living in dog years.
33:48Every day he's there, we age seven days.
33:51And how long can they continue to appease a bully?
33:54Not sure.
33:56But at some point, I think there has to be a rallying point where countries come together and say, enough is enough.
34:02We need to act as one.
34:04We're not going to put together an organization.
34:06We're not going to put together a new UN.
34:09It's doubtful, and I agree with the ambassador, that you'd be able to force the U.S. out.
34:13But if they come together and simply say, on a trade basis, you can, you know, tax your people and tariff your people as much as you want, but it's going to be uniform.
34:22And you're not going to pit us against each other.
34:24And you're not allowed to go into other countries and take their things because you think you need them.
34:32Ambassador, you know, Sarna, we're talking about spheres of influences and if it is the Western Hemisphere that America has, where Asia is concerned.
34:40You know, we are talking about President Trump being a bully, subjugating your neighbors, stealing their minerals, and nobody's really saying anything.
34:46He's been allowed to do so with very less criticism.
34:49We should be worried.
34:50We have a bully across our border where China is concerned.
34:53Well, I think that situation exists no matter what Mr. Trump does.
34:59What has happened is that, you know, the indications so far are that the strategic convergence that India and the United States had over their approach to China,
35:12which was a source of, frankly, a source of great comfort for us, is no longer reliable.
35:17And, you know, if Mr. Trump either, say, does a sort of big G2 deal with China in different things,
35:27or if he says, I don't care what China does in their sphere, then we are absolutely without that strategic convergence.
35:34Then everything that we've discussed in the last 20 years, or at least certainly the last 10 years, about the Indo-Pacific...
35:41Do you think that's possible, you know, at the cost of coming in, Ambassador Sarna, do you think that's possible,
35:46that there is an understanding that Russia can go into Ukraine, allow me to do what I'm doing,
35:50and China can continue its dominance in Asia?
35:54We all have our spheres of influence.
35:55That wouldn't be the theory of spheres of influence, but I think it's a theory.
36:02There are a lot of other countries who would resist that.
36:06Now, particularly in Asia, you have Japan, you have Korea, you have India, you have the entire ASEAN.
36:13I mean, they're not just going to all roll over.
36:17Russia's sphere of influence, Russia would like to influence all of Europe.
36:21I mean, Germany is rearming. Poland has increased its defence allocation to 4.7% of GDP.
36:30A number of East European countries are now rearming, and they want to increase their defence production.
36:38So these countries are not going to roll over.
36:40And I don't think all the countries of Latin America, I mean, you have countries like Brazil, etc.,
36:47who are also not going to be taking this quietly.
36:49They have come out very strongly.
36:51So it's a good theory, you know, in theory, but it won't work in practice.
36:57What will work in practice in such a multi-plural, let us say a plural world,
37:03I can't even call it a multipolar world, in a plural world will be the kind of system that we had in place.
37:10A certain set of rules, certain rules for the road, certain respect for treaties, respect for international law.
37:17I know this is sounding extremely old-fashioned in today's atmosphere, but it needs to be said.
37:24Because if we stop saying it, it will stop existing.
37:29All right, Ambassador Sarna, I want to, Mr. Goldman, just a final word there.
37:33The look ahead, do you think it's going to be all rhetoric or do you see there's going to be intent where there's talk of Greenland?
37:38You know, you started off that it's more bluster, but what do you see happening in the next couple of weeks?
37:46Donald Trump is a transactional president, and so he's looking for a deal and for a quick win, and then he moves on to the next subject.
37:53We went from all of the trade deals, which were really deals on paper, but he's got to deal with Europe.
37:57He's got to deal with a bunch of countries.
37:59Has anything actually changed?
38:01Have investment really shifted?
38:02No, not really.
38:03And I think that's what we're looking at in Venezuela.
38:05That's what we're looking at with Greenland.
38:07I think we're looking for the president pushing as hard as he can, seeing what he can get away with, accepting a transaction or a deal that makes it look like he's won something and then on to the next thing.
38:18So I don't think he's taking over Greenland.
38:19I don't think he's ceding Taiwan to China.
38:22I don't think he's going to cede Ukraine to Russia.
38:24All these would, in the end, be hugely politically unpopular and costly to him.
38:29But he's looking for quick wins.
38:30He's picking up a couple of them, and this is his M.O., and I think we're going to see this for years to come.
38:35But I think, as both my colleagues have pointed out, this is all happening at extreme damage to world security, to the rule of law, to the U.S. ability to form coalitions in the future, which will take some generations to undo.
38:48But I think, whether you call it taco or you call it transactional, I think the president will push as far as he can, and he will take a quick win, even a performative, symbolic win, and then move on to the next issue, which is why he's taken out the world, but the regime is still there.
39:06I think we're going to see more of the same.
39:08All right, so he's going to move on, but something that he hasn't quite moved on from is he's still hung up on not getting the Nobel.
39:15I'm just reading out his latest tweet where he's actually calling NATO foolish for not giving him a Nobel because he ended eight wars.
39:22We're going to just leave it at that because we don't quite know what tomorrow brings.
39:25But thank you, gentlemen, all three of you, for taking the time out and joining us this evening.
39:29We appreciate it.
39:30Thank you so much.
39:31All right, with that, let's quickly shift focus to Delhi, where an anti-encroachment drive ordered by the Delhi High Court spiraled into abject chaos at the Turkmen gate after rumors sparked panic and provocation.
39:43What really happened on the ground and who turned a legal action into a flashpoint?
39:48Here's the full detail.
39:55At midnight, Turkmen gate in Delhi turned into a flashpoint.
40:1032 bulldozers, four excavators, anti-encroachment drive near the Faiz Elahi mosque turned violent.
40:20The trigger, rumors and messages alleging that the mosque itself was being demolished.
40:28The operation was planned in coordination meeting with the Amman committee and local stakeholder and was aimed only at encroachments.
40:44A banquet hall, shops, an illegally built dispensary all near the Faiz Elahi mosque on the orders of the Delhi High Court.
40:52But as rumors of mosque demolition spread, a crowd gathered.
41:04Stone pelting began and the police responded with tear gas.
41:09Two policemen were injured in the line of duty.
41:12The police were injured in the
41:42Now videos have surfaced, exposing what police call a deliberate attempt to give a legal action a religious color.
42:12Police say these videos were circulated to trigger violence. Five are arrested, many others detained. Police say the conspiracy is being uncovered layer by layer.
42:42We had deployed drone cameras, we have CCTV cameras, actually we had used body-worn cameras also.
42:52In fact, one of the police officers who were injured, he was wearing a body-worn camera.
42:55So we are analysing that CCTV footage based on that we will be able to identify.
42:59In fact, some of them have been already detained and we are questioning them.
43:03A video of SPMP Mohibullah Nadvi at the Turkman gate arguing with the police has also surfaced.
43:12On Tuesday morning, the true picture of demolition emerged.
43:18The mosque stands untouched. Only illegal structures razed.
43:26This is the diagnostic centre, brought down. The genset can be seen very clearly.
43:32Possibly the owners thought that nothing would happen to their structure despite the many of the warning.
43:39The mosque stands untouched. This is the structure which is right next to the mosque which has been taken down.
43:46And where the authorities possibly thought it might damage the mosque, the bulldozers were stopped.
43:52MIM MP Asaduddin Ovesi, however, questioned the BJP and police.
43:57What began as an anti-encouragement drive turned to the house in a restaurant,
44:20What began as an anti-encroachment drive turned violent after rumours.
44:29The police have assured action against the encroachers and those who sparked the chaos.
44:36With Arvind Ojha and Amit Bharadwaj, Bureau Report, India Today.
44:41All right, let's move on to a story which has, or rather two judgments that have sparked a debate.
44:52Two Supreme Court benches, two very different laws and two sharply contrasting readings of liberty, Article 21.
45:00As bail rulings under UAPA and PMLA pull in opposite directions,
45:04those questions are now being raised about consistency, interpretation and the meaning of Article 21.
45:18Two different benches, one Supreme Court delivering starkly different judgments.
45:26Underscoring the inherent subjectivity of constitutional interpretation.
45:31Exposing how judicial outcomes often hinge less on settled law, more on interpretive choice.
45:41The same statute, the same constitution, but two parallel universes of liberty.
45:50The law, in effect, changes with the bench.
45:54The latest spark has ignited a larger debate on criminal justice and the interpretation of personal liberty and of Article 21.
46:07Article 21 that guarantees the fundamental right to protection of life and personal liberty.
46:13Case in example, 5th January 2026, the two-judge bench of Arvind Kumar and N.V. Anjaria of the Supreme Court denied bail to activists Umar Khalid and Sharjil Imam in the Delhi riots conspiracy case, both charged under UAPA.
46:31The bench held the nature and gravity of the offense linked to national security, outweighed concerns over delay in trial,
46:41underlining that in serious cases, prolonged incarceration alone is not sufficient ground for bail.
46:48The selective reading of liberty in UAPA sparked a wider question.
46:53Should liberty under Article 21 of the Constitution be subject to interpretation, or should it remain an unqualified guarantee?
47:04Just one day later, 6th January 2026, another bench, another judgment.
47:11Hearing a case under PMLA, the Supreme Court bench struck a very different chord.
47:17Granting bail to the Amtech group promoter, Arvind Tham, after 16 months in jail,
47:24a bench of Justice Sanjay Kumar and Alok Arande ruled that the accused has a fundamental right to a speedy trial
47:32and it is not eclipsed by the nature of the offense.
47:36The bench went further, saying if the state cannot ensure a timely trial, it cannot oppose bail.
47:42The bench said, and I quote,
47:46It is well settled that if the state or any prosecuting agency, including the court,
47:54has no wherewithal to provide or protect the fundamental rights of an accused to have a speedy trial,
48:01the state or court should not oppose the plea for bail on the grounds that the crime committed is serious.
48:08So while Omar Khalid and Sharjeeel Imam, who have spent nearly six years in custody,
48:15are being prosecuted for terror under UAPA and not PMLA,
48:20yet the bail thresholds under UAPA Section 43D and PMLA Section 45 are exactly the same.
48:29Where one bench granting bail to former Amtech group chairperson is incomplete contradiction to the judgment passed by another bench
48:39while rejecting the bail plea of Omar and Sharjeeel.
48:44Two rulings, one constitutional principle and contrasting outcomes.
48:48The question tonight is whether India's highest court is sending mixed signals
48:54or reaffirming that liberty and security are weighed on very different scales.
49:00Today, the Supreme Court stands at a crossroad in its engagement with liberty.
49:06Its jurisprudence under UAPA and PMLA reflect contradictions.
49:10The larger tragedy is not that bail is denied, but that the reason for denial are inconsistent.
49:23All right, let's talk some politics.
49:25The BMC polls, civic polls in Maharashtra are going to take place shortly.
49:30Ideology is clearly taking a backseat as unlikely alliances redraw the political map.
49:36From Ambar Nath to Akot, rivals are teaming up purely for power.
49:41Why I say ideology is taking a backseat?
49:44Well, you have the BJP tying up with the AIMIM.
49:48You have the Congress tying up with the BJP to defeat who?
49:53Shinde Saina.
49:54Does it quite add up politically?
49:56No, but it's about power, not so much about ideology.
49:59In Maharashtra's municipal elections, ideology is clearly taking a backseat.
50:07What's driving outcomes instead is pure power arithmetic.
50:12Old rivals are turning partners, not for shared principles, but for the numbers that secure power.
50:19The most striking example is from Ambar Nath Municipal Council.
50:23Where Reknath Shinde's Shiv Saina emerged as the largest party, but fell short of majority by four seats.
50:33Here, bitter national rivals, the BJP and the Congress joined hands with Ajit Bawar's NCP to keep the Shiv Saina out.
50:43The Congress leadership, embarrassed by the events in Ambar Nath, suspended its 12 corporators who struck a deal with the BJP.
50:51The reaction from the Shinde Saina was swift and sharp.
51:18Ambar Nath is not an isolated case.
51:33In a court municipality in Akola district, the BJP has stitched up an alliance with members of the MIM.
51:41A move that has triggered fresh questions about the party's ideological positioning, particularly its Hindutwa plank.
52:03These local tie-ups have not gone down well with the BJP's leadership.
52:22Maharashtra Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis has conveyed strong displeasure and directed the party's local units to end alliances with the Congress in Ambar Nath and the MIM in a court.
52:37Across Maharashtra, unlikely alliances are reshaping local politics.
52:42A reminder that when it comes to municipal power, electoral arithmetic often trumps ideology.
52:48Bureau Report, India Today.
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