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00:00Tonight, the president says Venezuela will give the United States up to 50 million barrels of oil
00:05as the White House threatens military force to take Greenland.
00:09Plus, whitewashing January 6th.
00:12The White House rewrites history just five years after the violent attack on our nation's capital.
00:18And RFK's CDC slashes the number of vaccines recommended for kids.
00:23What it all means as the 11th hour gets underway on this Tuesday night.
00:30Good evening once again.
00:36I am Stephanie Ruhle.
00:37And today marks 300 days until the midterms and five years since the January 6th attack on our nation's capital.
00:45We're going to have much more on that coming up in just a bit.
00:48But tomorrow morning, members of Donald Trump's team will brief the full Senate and House on the situation in Venezuela.
00:54That means it is the first time most members of Congress will be briefed.
00:57And it has been more than four days after the attack.
01:00And remember, the president says he tipped off American oil companies before and after the strikes.
01:06Congress, not so much.
01:08Today, Trump spoke to House Republicans and made it clear he is very happy with how it's all gone so far.
01:13You know, people are saying it goes down with one of the most incredible, it was so complex, 152 airplanes, many, many.
01:23Talk about boots on the ground.
01:25We had a lot of boots on the ground.
01:26But it was amazing.
01:28And think of it, nobody was killed.
01:29And on the other side, a lot of people were killed.
01:31Unfortunately, I say that, soldiers, Cubans, mostly Cubans, but many, many killed.
01:37They've been after this guy for years and years and years.
01:41And, you know, he's a violent guy.
01:44He gets up there and he tries to imitate my dance a little bit.
01:47But he's a violent guy and he's killed millions of people.
01:54I'm also meeting with oil companies.
01:55Let's go.
01:56You know, you know what that's about.
01:58We've got a lot of oil to drill, which is going to bring down oil prices even further.
02:04And tonight, the president posted on social media that Venezuelan authorities agreed to turn over between 30 and 50 million barrels of oil.
02:13The president says the oil will be sold at market price and that he, he, the president of the United States, is going to control that money.
02:21A reminder, the Constitution is pretty clear that Congress holds the power to spend money, not the president.
02:29Meanwhile, the people who actually live in Venezuela are very worried about its economy.
02:34The New York Times reports the country's internal projections show that the American blockade on oil could affect more than 70 percent of oil production.
02:42People briefed on the projections, told the Times that would wipe out its main source of public revenue.
02:48And remember, that country is already struggling.
02:51Remember, just yesterday, Stephen Miller said that Venezuela needs America's permission to even have an economy to begin with.
02:58In that very same interview, Miller seemed to suggest the U.S. is entitled to Greenland.
03:03And today, the White House confirmed it is considering using the military to obtain it.
03:08White House Press Secretary Carolyn Leavitt said in a statement the following,
03:12President Trump has made it well known that acquiring Greenland is a national security priority of the United States.
03:19The president and his team are discussing a range of options to pursue this important fallacy goal.
03:24And of course, utilizing the U.S. military is always an option.
03:29But this evening, we learned that Secretary of State Marco Rubio told lawmakers that Trump actually wants to purchase Greenland
03:35and is using public statements to try to pressure Denmark into a deal.
03:40That is what two people familiar told MSNOW, confirming a report from The Wall Street Journal.
03:45Greenland, of course, is a self-governing territory of Denmark.
03:48Today, European leaders issued a joint statement pushing back against the president's threats,
03:53saying Greenland belongs to its own people.
03:55All right, we've got a lot to cover, so let's get smarter with the help of our lead-off panel.
03:59They are here tonight.
04:00Jeff Mason, White House correspondent for Reuters.
04:02My dear friend Leanne Caldwell, chief Washington correspondent for Puck.
04:05And Michael McFaul, former U.S. ambassador to Russia and an MSNOW international affairs analyst.
04:11Mr. Mason, you spend the most time at the White House, so help us.
04:15The White House is now openly weighing using our military to take Greenland.
04:21But now you've got Rubio reportedly telling Congress, no, no, no, no, no, no, the president just wants to buy it.
04:26This is all just like a public negotiating tactic.
04:29What can you tell us?
04:31What I can tell you, number one, Steph, is that all of this is real,
04:34that the president, the White House, and his officials are absolutely discussing these options.
04:39I spoke to a senior administration official earlier today who told me and a couple colleagues that there are active discussions,
04:47that this is a popular issue right now within the walls of the White House to discuss.
04:52But also was told that a sale or a purchase, I should say, of Greenland is something that they're considering.
05:01And this official said that they will try diplomacy first, and that's what they'll be leading with.
05:07But the discussion of the military and the statement that you just read, all of that is real,
05:15and all of these things are—it's not hyperbole.
05:18It's something that is actually being discussed within the West Wing.
05:21What are you hearing about this on the Hill, Leanne?
05:26Well, it depends on who you ask, obviously.
05:28How Speaker Mike Johnson seemed to tout the president's line today,
05:35saying that Greenland is a national security interest of the United States.
05:42We all know that Speaker Johnson doesn't separate himself from the president really ever,
05:46so that was pretty expected.
05:49But this is making a lot of members really uneasy,
05:53not just Democrats, but Republicans too.
05:56The fact that this is an ally, Denmark is an ally, Denmark is a NATO, member of NATO,
06:06and that this could be a threat to the entire organization of NATO.
06:12So there are a lot of questions that a lot of members have.
06:16They are very much looking forward to this briefing tomorrow
06:20with top administration officials to learn more.
06:25But it is just really, really incredible that essentially colonization
06:31is the policy of the United States right now, Steph.
06:36Ambassador, I just want to slow down what Leanne said and underline it again.
06:41If the United States takes Greenland by force,
06:44would that not be one NATO country going after another?
06:49And if that takes place, wouldn't that be the end of the NATO alliance?
06:53That feels monumental to me.
06:57I can't stress enough how completely insane this idea is on so many levels.
07:05First of all, there is no national security interest that we need to seize Greenland.
07:09They have not made the case.
07:12We can have as many soldiers there as we want.
07:14We have bases there.
07:15I worked in the government.
07:16I know how we've used Greenland before.
07:19We can do that through negotiation.
07:22Second, they roll out minerals.
07:23We can sign treaties.
07:25We can sign agreements, contracts to get minerals.
07:30There is no reason to go back to 19th century imperialism.
07:35But third, to your point, Stephanie, not only would it blow up NATO,
07:39it would alienate the United States from the entire world,
07:44from the democratic world, the free world, the autocratic world.
07:49And then we will empower countries like China.
07:52Well, if they can take Greenland, of course, we can take Taiwan.
07:56Putin, well, there's no difference.
07:58We're just like them.
08:00I just think this is so insane, and we need to call it out as insane.
08:05Why would the United States want to do this, Ambassador?
08:08It's the craziest idea I've ever heard of.
08:11I'm dying to know.
08:11Poor Leanne right now is dying because someone in her house is talking to her
08:14and she's saying, yo, I'm on television.
08:17I absolutely love when that happens.
08:20My 10-year-old daughter who should be a...
08:22Why?
08:25Girl, that's happened to me.
08:27Why would America want to do this?
08:28Why would the president...
08:29I shouldn't say America.
08:30It's the president.
08:30Why does Trump want to do this?
08:32Like, I can see in your face.
08:33I can hear your words, this is the most insane thing ever.
08:36So why does he want to do it?
08:39I think it's about Trump.
08:42This is about his legacy.
08:44It's just like building the ballroom that nobody asked for.
08:46He wants to be the guy that said, I'm the person that brought Greenland.
08:50He thinks of it as his personal project.
08:53And if there was an interagency process and they sent out,
08:57and it was in the national security strategy,
08:58the Chinese and the Russians are trying to take over Greenland.
09:01We need to do something about that.
09:03But they're just inventing all these alibis post facto.
09:07By the way, if you read the national security strategy,
09:09they told us in that document that the Chinese and Russians are not our enemies.
09:14Yet today, they're now our enemies.
09:16But again, I just think it's about Trump,
09:19and it's a vanity project, just like the ballroom.
09:22And it's time for people, rational people, including the people that work for him,
09:28that I used to know.
09:30They know this is insane, too.
09:32And we have to stop this, because this is not just about Greenland.
09:36It is not just about Denmark.
09:37It is about overreach that I think would have dire consequences
09:41for America's place in the world moving forward.
09:44Then let's talk about Venezuela, Jeff.
09:47And I'm not saying that the president is lying about this.
09:49But he's certainly been known to overstate a whole lot of things.
09:53And this was a very big announcement that he's basically saying,
09:56yep, Venezuela is going to be forking over oil to us,
10:01and he'll control the money.
10:02We've not heard any of this from Venezuela.
10:04What can you tell us?
10:06The first thing that I can tell you, Steph, is, yes,
10:10I mean, all of us as journalists and viewers
10:13have to sometimes put a filter through which we listen
10:17to some of the things that the president says.
10:19And I will give an example of that.
10:21When he was speaking at his press conference from Mar-a-Lago
10:23about Venezuela last Saturday,
10:27one of the things that he said was that the new government
10:33would be cooperating.
10:34And if not, then he threatened essentially another strike.
10:38I referenced that I spoke to a senior administration official
10:41earlier today.
10:41And we talked a little bit about the current leader in Venezuela
10:45who has essentially succeeded Maduro,
10:49although she has still said that Maduro is in charge.
10:51She has made clear in her public statements
10:54that she still is part of the Maduro government.
10:58And I cited that with this official.
11:00And she said, well, Delcy has to speak to a domestic audience.
11:04We understand that.
11:07The conversations with us, i.e.
11:09with the U.S. administration, are different.
11:11So that's interesting.
11:13It does sort of put into perspective what the president is saying
11:16and what others around him are saying.
11:18That doesn't mean, again, I think that filter is still important.
11:22That doesn't mean that we shouldn't still continue to question
11:25whether or not what he's saying and what they're saying
11:28about talks with the people in Venezuela right now,
11:32conform with what people in Venezuela are saying or experiencing.
11:35But it is a little bit of an insight into the idea
11:38that maybe there are public and private conversations
11:40that are different.
11:42Well, the full Congress is finally going to be briefed tomorrow, Leanne.
11:45And given that public and private conversations might,
11:49I wouldn't say definitely, could very well be different,
11:52what can we actually expect to get?
11:54What does Congress think they're going to get out of this?
11:55Yeah, well, it's interesting, Steph, because as we all know,
12:00that this Congress has not been briefed on many things
12:04from this administration.
12:04That has just been the pattern.
12:08And when the president or the administration does brief,
12:10it's usually just Republicans who receive those phone calls
12:14or who receive that information or the briefing.
12:17The few bipartisan briefings that have happened leading up to this,
12:22including one in December, on this issue of Venezuela.
12:27Democrats are charging the administration of lying to members of Congress
12:32when Democrats asked if regime change or boots on the ground
12:38was ultimately the end game here.
12:41Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Tim Kaine, other Democrats said
12:48that Marco Rubio and other administration officials denied
12:52that regime change was the ultimate outcome.
12:56So there is a belief that they don't get a lot of straight answers,
13:01and especially when the full Congress is being briefed,
13:05a lot of that information is sanitized.
13:08Now, the Gang of Eight, the top intelligence and top members of Congress
13:13were briefed yesterday, and that is apparently according to the Wall Street Journal
13:19when Rubio told them that the Greenland saber rattling
13:24is just a tactic for negotiation to buy Greenland.
13:28So we'll see if he repeats things like that tomorrow.
13:33But also coming up this week is a vote in the Senate
13:36on a war powers resolution regarding Venezuela.
13:40And so it's going to be a huge test, especially for Republicans,
13:44even if they agree with the policy and agree with the outcome of ousting Maduro.
13:50This is really also about congressional authority, constitutional power,
13:55and it's something that Republicans have not been willing to stand up for.
13:59So it is a pretty monumental week for Congress this week to see what information they get
14:05and what sort of power or might they're willing to present in the face of the administration, Steph.
14:13Michael, yesterday you wrote about how our priority in Venezuela should be democracy, not oil.
14:21I'm certainly not saying that's naive, but that's like saying Leanne's daughter should be in bed.
14:27That's absolutely not the case.
14:28There's been no talk of democracy.
14:31I mean, the White House would argue that they believe this move on oil, you know,
14:36will help the country's economy.
14:38And if the economy is doing better, democracy will follow.
14:40But we know that's not the case.
14:42There's no talk of democracy, is there?
14:46There isn't, Stephanie, but we're not a dictatorship.
14:49We're not a monarchy.
14:50The American people don't have to get behind Trump just because he picked up Maduro, and
14:55now we're going to extort them for $2.5 billion, $3 billion of oil.
14:59I want us to have a debate about that.
15:01Do you realize how crazy this is?
15:04We picked him up, and now it's gangster diplomacy, right?
15:08Pay us $2 or $3 billion, and we will let your regime stay in place.
15:12And for many, many years, Senator Rubio, maybe he forgot what he used to say.
15:18We talked about this dictatorship, and the dictatorship is still in place.
15:23Every single person is there, so it's not regime change.
15:26And now the president is just going to take a bribe so that we don't run the country that
15:31we don't do regime change.
15:32And I want to suggest that this is not the way we should conduct our foreign policy abroad.
15:38This does not serve the interests of the American people.
15:42Even the president's comment, this is going to be for the American people and the Venezuelan
15:47people, this money.
15:48What does that mean?
15:50Who gave us the right to see this money?
15:54Who gave us the right to see this money?
15:57We don't have the right to do that.
15:58I'm not arguing that, but what do you say to Venezuelans here, Venezuelans around the
16:04world who are applauding Donald Trump and saying he had the guts to do that?
16:10No, they're not.
16:11I talk to Venezuelans every day.
16:13I talk to people that work for you every day.
16:15Hold on.
16:15Both can be true.
16:16Hold on.
16:17Both can be true.
16:17They are doing what—hold on.
16:19Let me explain.
16:20They are doing what everybody has to do.
16:22They think they have to do with Donald Trump.
16:24They have to say nice things about him.
16:26They have to give him his Nobel Peace Prize.
16:28Just like Zelensky, just like Rubio, just like the European leaders, everybody thinks
16:34you have to accommodate him.
16:35But do you know what they tell me?
16:37They said we—yes, they popped champagne when Maduro fell.
16:41They hate Maduro.
16:42He lost the last election.
16:44Gonzalez should be the president.
16:46He won the election in 2024.
16:48But instead of bringing Gonzalez in, which would have been so easy for President Trump to say,
16:55we are now going to help restore democracy.
16:58The people voted for Gonzalez.
17:00He's an ally of Machado.
17:02And I'm going to help negotiate a transition, all of Poland in 1989.
17:07What did he do?
17:08He threw Machado under the bus.
17:10And he said, we're going to work with the crook, the vice president of Maduro, as long
17:15as she gives us money, $2.5 billion, $3 billion.
17:19Believe me, Venezuelans are not celebrating that when they're talking to me.
17:23OK, on that front, Jeff, I just saw the former ambassador to Panama today talking to a New
17:31York Times columnist, and he said this whole idea that the United States or the president
17:35is going to now run Venezuela, you know, run the economy there, it's much more like a crime
17:42family, a mob boss showing up every week collecting a pile of cash.
17:47If that's how this thing is being framed, how is the White House going to respond to that?
17:51Because in truth, the president kind of likes a gangster brand, which is absurd.
17:58Well, I think, number one, some of the questions, and you're asking a lot of good ones right
18:03there, Steph, but some of the questions that I think we'll continue to ask are, number one,
18:08if the United States or if this administration says it's governing Venezuela, how is it doing
18:13that without any personnel on the ground?
18:16They don't, they didn't leave any personnel.
18:17Now, they, Marco Rubio, Secretary Rubio and others are not traveling to Venezuela.
18:23It probably wouldn't be safe for them to, to govern.
18:26Number two, they're talking about having discussions with, with government officials.
18:31But what does that mean exactly?
18:34It's, how are they in control?
18:36Other than to say, which they have, to be honest, they've, they, they, they still have
18:40ships in the region and they have this, this threat of additional force.
18:46I don't know the answer to your question, except to answer, except to ask a few of my
18:51own stuff, which is, what does it mean to, to be running Venezuela when you have your
18:56own Secretary of State saying something that's different from what the president said and
19:00you don't have people on the ground?
19:02All right.
19:03Thank you all so, so much.
19:05And Michael, I especially appreciate not just your expertise, but your passion tonight.
19:11Thank you for starting us off.
19:12Coming up, what Trump's takeover in Venezuela means for U.S. energy companies and for American
19:17consumers.
19:18We're going to break it down.
19:19Money power politics is next.
19:20And later, five years after the attack on the U.S. Capitol, the Trump White House and
19:25Democrats are still battling over the narrative.
19:28We should not be battling over facts, the false information the president put out today
19:34on the riots anniversary, the 11th hour, just getting underway on a Tuesday night.
19:41It is time now for Money Power Politics.
19:44As we mentioned earlier, President Trump posted, ready, that he would be controlling the sale
19:49of 30 to 50 million barrels of surrendered Venezuelan oil.
19:53It comes as Bloomberg writes that this Thursday, he's going to try to convince U.S.
19:57energy companies to invest in rebuilding the country's oil industry.
20:01And other reports say that Trump has already floated potential incentives and reimbursements
20:06to get those companies involved.
20:08Here now to discuss, my dear friend Dan Nathan, CNBC contributor and co-host of the Risk Reversal
20:12podcast, and Stacey Vanek-Smith, reporter for Bloomberg Business Week and host of the
20:16podcast Everybody's Business.
20:18It's her first visit here to the 11th hour.
20:20Welcome.
20:21OK, let's talk about this latest proposal from Trump.
20:26How would this work?
20:28And how extraordinary is it that the street and the business community is like, yeah,
20:34Trump can roll this way and we're OK with it?
20:36Well, we're OK with a lot of stuff that's gone on over the last year or so.
20:39And when you think about this, I mean, it really is a rounding error.
20:41If it is 50 million barrels of oil, that is literally two and a half days of our consumption.
20:47It's about $3 billion of worth where oil is trading right now.
20:50So do you think he makes announcements like this for show, for people who don't understand
20:54how oil works, to say like, look, we're getting all this oil.
20:57It was a win for us.
20:58It's like it's like Dr. Evil, who was just unfrozen from his cryogenical freeze.
21:03And he's like, that really is what it is.
21:06But I think your point is a great one.
21:08It's kind of signaling.
21:09It's right.
21:09Right.
21:10So we did this thing and it went really well.
21:11And here we're starting to reap the rewards of it right away.
21:14And when you think about what that means for gas at the pump, it doesn't mean a lot.
21:19Right.
21:19The average price of a gallon of gas at the pump last year was about $3.10.
21:24Right now, it's about $3.
21:25So if you just kind of put in context what we're talking about with 50 million barrels,
21:29it's like, again, it's like a rounding error.
21:31It's not going to do a whole heck of a lot.
21:32OK, then I guess I'm naive because there are rules.
21:35Venezuela is a member of OPEC.
21:38So how does Trump's plan work once you layer that onto this?
21:43Well, I think that actually might be kind of at the heart of this.
21:45Not so much the oil that we will get, but the power that comes with the oil,
21:49because Venezuela does have the largest oil reserves in the world.
21:52And if you add that to our existing capacity,
21:56it's almost a third of the world's oil is suddenly in control of the U.S.
22:01So it is a lot of power, even though maybe practically speaking, not as effective.
22:08It's a lot of power.
22:10But the thing that has to happen is these U.S. oil companies have to want to go down there, right?
22:14Are these companies going to basically play a game of chicken with President Trump?
22:20Because he needs them to set up shop.
22:23But it will take at least $100 billion, right, and 10 years to rebuild this infrastructure
22:29in a country that has extraordinary political instability, that has already had extraordinary
22:34political instability.
22:35And three years from now, Donald Trump won't even be in office.
22:38So can they hold out and say, give us more, give us more, give us more?
22:42Because he needs them to show up there and start drilling.
22:44Steph Newsflash, there's political instability here, too.
22:47And I think that does—
22:48But of a different kind.
22:49No, I know.
22:49But I think that plays into it, right?
22:51So if you think about this administration has been very friendly with the energy, right,
22:55from the deregulation, that sort of thing.
22:56And I think a lot of these CEOs, while they do have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders,
23:01you know, they also have to play this line.
23:03We've seen it with a lot of these tech CEOs, right?
23:05They can come in and say, here's our long-term plan to invest here in America.
23:09I guess the one thing I would say, and if you think about the president's constituency,
23:13I don't know if it's going to play that well that the government is going to help this build
23:18out, that they're going to convince a bunch of these oil companies to do this build out,
23:22unless you can see any sort of benefit in the near term.
23:25You're just not going to.
23:26So I think a lot of these CEOs are going to do exactly what you're saying.
23:28They're going to walk this line.
23:29They're going to kind of keep the administration happy enough that they're going to make these
23:33commitments.
23:33But at the end of the day, if crude oil prices are going to be going down because there's
23:37going to be more supply, right, it doesn't really make a cost-effective reason for them
23:43to invest too much, again, in a place where there's a lot of political uncertainty.
23:46But who's his constituency today?
23:48The president's?
23:49Yeah.
23:49Well, you'd think that, I mean...
23:51Like when you say his constituency, right, a few years ago, one might say the MAGA base.
23:56But is that really his constituency?
23:58Because there's not a policy I can look at in the last 11 months that looks like he's
24:02focused on them.
24:03His new constituency is the business elites that he's delivering for, and they're really
24:08thrilled with it.
24:09I guess what I would say is that if he can tell his base, just exactly how we started
24:13this segment, that this is going to be good for you, this is going to be good for your
24:16pocketbook, it's going to reduce costs.
24:18I think just as a signaling standpoint, now, it's probably not going to make that big a deal
24:22over the next year.
24:23But I think these are the sorts of things that we're going to see, trying to get his
24:26base to not look at their grocery prices, not look at some of these other healthcare
24:31prices and all this other stuff and say, look what I'm doing for you on the energy front.
24:35And so he's asked them to be patient.
24:36He's trying to take these small steps that maybe are just a little bit of smoke and mirrors,
24:40but it probably will work.
24:42A lot of these people don't pay too much attention to the news.
24:44If you're like a low, you know, kind of information voter, you're just going to see some of
24:49these big headlines and you're going to be, okay, he's trying to do what we need.
24:52Or you're going to ignore the headlines and think about what your cost of living is and
24:56whether it's healthcare or groceries or gas.
24:58If they don't go down, you're going to care about them in the midterms, which are 11 months
25:02away.
25:03Let's talk about China because China is now largely cut off from Venezuela.
25:08They were a key, key customer.
25:10China was in Venezuela last Friday.
25:13So what is this going to mean, especially when, when you've got Stephen Miller saying
25:17like, this is our power, this is our hemisphere.
25:20I think that is one of the really interesting questions.
25:23And one of the most interesting parts of this move is that it kind of does shake things up
25:29geopolitically because there has been kind of alliances, like you said, between China and
25:33Venezuela and Russia and Iran and Cuba.
25:35And this kind of gets in the middle of all of that.
25:38And because Venezuela has been such an important oil provider for a lot of countries that aren't
25:43necessarily friendly with the U.S., I think that is right at the center of this.
25:47We were talking about in the last segment, this idea that we, whether we would take it
25:51over using military force, Marco Rubio says, maybe we would pay, but Greenland.
25:55If we were to use military and take over Greenland, that's innate, that would blow up the NATO
26:02alliance, right?
26:03Right?
26:04Yeah.
26:04Affects world order.
26:05Why don't the markets seem to care?
26:08That is a really interesting question.
26:10It is very puzzling what the markets care about sometimes.
26:13I think a lot of this maybe has been priced in, and there's so much uncertainty around
26:18how much of these words will translate into actions.
26:22I think it is really difficult to say, and the markets may be hanging back a little bit
26:27and focused on other things.
26:28I want to get your take, because I would argue you're seeing oil companies, for example, have
26:32much more of a muted reaction.
26:34Because for an oil company to say, I'm going to make a multi-billion dollar, 10-year investment,
26:39that's much different from a hedge fund going all in on a Tuesday, because they could sell
26:43it all on a Wednesday.
26:44I'm going to talk to you, because I know you're an ex-banker, that sort of thing.
26:46I mean, when you think about it, oil is-
26:48I'd like you to talk to me.
26:49I am the host of the show.
26:50No, as like an ex-banker.
26:51Oh, there we go.
26:52I'm always talking to you, and I'm talking to people here.
26:54You know what I mean?
26:55No, I guess my point is, and you hear this a lot, right?
26:58So that chips, you know, microchips, GPUs, the thing that are powering, they're the new
27:03oil, right?
27:03Oil is that commodity that really dominated the last 100 years.
27:07And so you think about what the markets are perceiving here.
27:10You know, energy is about 5% of the weight of the S&P 500, the biggest equity index out there.
27:15It's about 5% of GDP.
27:17This is an important industry, but it's also an industry that lots of other folks,
27:21whether you're building these data centers, you're looking for alternative sources of energy.
27:25But I'm just saying, don't you think that investors just love news?
27:28They love market swings, whether they're up or down, because they play them.
27:31That doesn't mean they have a long-term belief in what the president's doing.
27:34They like big news.
27:35They like volatility.
27:36It's how they make money.
27:37So the markets didn't move off this, is what you're saying, right?
27:40They're not going to move off if anything happens to Greenland.
27:42And what they would move off is if we just basically cede Ukraine to Russia.
27:46And then all of a sudden, you start seeing the blowing up of NATO.
27:49And then you start seeing Russia moving over to Poland.
27:52Those are the sorts of things that would shake the markets.
27:55Now, the other thing that would do, and you just mentioned China,
27:58if this creates a permission structure for the Chinese to blockade Taiwan,
28:02make no mistake about it.
28:03That could cause a global disruption of supply chains for the thing that matters the most,
28:09chips being the new oil.
28:10And that's the showdown that the markets would have a very hard time dealing with.
28:14And that's why we invite Dan Nathan on this show,
28:16because every once in a while, he's got a good answer.
28:19Stacey, thank you so much for being here.
28:21Please come back soon.
28:22When we return, the entire world watched as rioters stormed the U.S. Capitol
28:26exactly five years ago today.
28:29Still, the Trump White House is fighting to rewrite history.
28:32Remember the video.
28:33Remember that day.
28:34It was five years ago.
28:35We all saw it.
28:36But they cannot fool us.
28:37And they certainly cannot fool our next guest.
28:40Historian John Meacham joins us next.
28:47Today, House Democrats marked the fifth anniversary of the January 6th attack
28:51with a hearing to push back on Trump's attempts to rewrite history,
28:55or I'm just going to say it, lie, about what happened on that historic day.
29:00Congressman Jamie Raskin spoke of the brave Capitol police officers
29:03Long after we are all gone, future generations will speak the names
29:15of Hodges and Dunn, Ganel and Fanon, Sicknick and Pingen.
29:22They will be remembered as the great patriots that they are.
29:26And the people who smashed them in the face with Confederate battle flags and Trump flags,
29:33the people who tried to destroy our constitutional order,
29:36will be remembered as fascist traitors to their own country.
29:42Meanwhile, January 6th rioters, including those who were pardoned,
29:46marked the anniversary by gathering to recreate their march to the Capitol.
29:51I want to bring in my dear friend, historian John Meacham.
29:56John, I don't even know where to begin.
29:58The White House, with our taxpayer dollars, created a website where they blamed January 6th
30:06on the Capitol police and on Democrats.
30:10They also absolved the president of any responsibility whatsoever.
30:14What is your reaction?
30:16Well, as you say, it's a lie.
30:18And one of the obligations of citizenship is to, if a president does something that makes sense,
30:25you should say so.
30:27If they do something that requires sanction, you should sanction it.
30:33And I think that this is an occasion for sanctioning any attempt to minimize what unfolded
30:41on the 6th of January, five years ago.
30:43And Congressman Raskin mentioned noble names there.
30:48I want to add a couple to that.
30:51Liz Cheney, who got a call from her father saying that President Trump was attacking her by name,
30:59and so she needed to be careful.
31:01Vice President Cheney himself, who a year later came to the floor.
31:06He was the only Republican on the floor on the first anniversary as a former member from Wyoming.
31:11Nancy Pelosi, who we've seen in footage shot by her daughter, how remarkably calm and steadfast she was.
31:21And one name that doesn't get enough attention is Mike Pence, who stood in a brief,
31:29who did his constitutional duty.
31:32I probably disagree with 90 percent, I suspect, of what the vice president believes politically.
31:40But he is a notable defender of the republic.
31:45And I think that every American citizen should thank him in their hearts and minds.
31:54And some people might say, oh, well, he was just doing his duty.
31:58Politics is human, right?
32:01And it's very, very difficult to, even when it's a prescribed law,
32:08to do something when there's so much pressure on you not to do it.
32:13And Vice President Pence did his duty.
32:16But what about the other list of names, John?
32:20What about the names of shame, right?
32:22Donald Trump has always been, at the very least, a denier of January 6th.
32:27But what about the names like Lindsey Graham?
32:29What about Mitch McConnell?
32:31Those who on that day and in the days after denounced that horrible day, what happened in the Capitol,
32:38and now they're conspicuously silent as the White House and Republicans are straight up lying about this.
32:44Something that we all saw with our own eyes.
32:48Right.
32:49Right.
32:49You're exactly right.
32:51And I think the second impeachment is something that we will study forever about whether,
33:00to what extent President Trump inspired the scenes you're showing.
33:05The other thing to remember about this, which I would urge anyone who tends to minimize it.
33:11And look, I live in Tennessee, so when I say I have conservative friends, that's redundant.
33:16I hear a lot from people who think that people like you and me exaggerated this.
33:23I had someone tell me, well, that's a big beltway issue.
33:25Well, the hell it is.
33:27It's an American issue.
33:28Because since 1789, when George Washington in New York took the oath of office, through five years ago today,
33:38no American seeker of office and no American president thought to do what President Trump was trying to do in the winter of 2020-2021,
33:50which was to repeal a lawful election.
33:53But that's a real—we should pause for a second, because that's the moment at which almost everything President Trump did in his first term,
34:05I would argue, was a difference of degree but not of kind.
34:10That is, you could always sort of place it on a spectrum in American history.
34:13January 6th and what I sometimes think of as the unfolding January 6th, the fake electors,
34:22the continuing effort, as you've been talking about, to lie about the election of 2020.
34:30That was unique.
34:32And believe me, if I say something is unique, that's against my business model, right?
34:36So you really need to listen.
34:37If something's unprecedented, it doesn't help me.
34:41But this was unprecedented.
34:44And presidents who lost a lot closer elections and under difficult, difficult circumstances never tried to do this.
34:55And so I don't think you can exaggerate it.
34:58Now, we took it to the country.
34:59It came to the country.
35:00And in 2024, a dispositive number of voters decided it was not disqualifying.
35:08And guess what?
35:10Those of us who believe in Republican government, lowercase r, and believe in democracy and believe in the Constitution,
35:16didn't storm a Capitol on January 6th, 2025, to protest the other, you know, when another election turned out the way they didn't want it.
35:31And so let's not forget this day, as Congressman Raskin did, remember the people who stood in the breach.
35:40And just remember that democracy, however difficult, cannot, cannot be violent.
35:49John, I would just make the point to you.
35:52January 6th can happen.
35:54And America can then decide they want to vote for Donald Trump and make him the president.
36:00But that doesn't mean that January 6th didn't happen.
36:04It absolutely did.
36:05It was a horrible day in our country.
36:07And under no circumstance should we rewrite history because it's simply the truth.
36:11John, thank you for joining me tonight.
36:13It is always an honor to have you here.
36:15When we return, RFK Jr. scales back the number of vaccines that are recommended for American children.
36:21We're going to look at the dramatic overhaul and what's really at stake.
36:24That's next.
36:25If you have kids, please watch this.
36:31If you care about kids, please watch this.
36:33If you are a kid, you should be in bed.
36:35The Trump administration health officials have made sweeping changes to the U.S. childhood vaccine schedule.
36:40The Centers for Disease Control are now recommending all children receive 11 vaccines as opposed to 17.
36:47The list still includes immunizations against polio, whooping cough, measles, and chicken pox.
36:52But six, hepatitis A and B, influenza, meningitis, RSV, and rotavirus are now only advised for what are known as high-risk children.
37:01I want to bring in Dr. Vin Gupta, global health policy expert, pulmonologist, and MSNOW medical contributor.
37:07Vin, I'm so glad you're here.
37:09Can you first help us understand the rationale?
37:13Because when people hear 17 vaccines, that's enormous.
37:19Where did they come up with, we're going to go from 17 to 11?
37:23Because the rationale is what really matters.
37:26Yeah, absolutely.
37:27Well, I'll do my best to channel them, Stephanie.
37:29Good evening.
37:30They're likening our vaccine paradigm to, or that it should be, like Denmark's.
37:38And why does that not make sense?
37:40In the U.S., our vaccine policy, we don't talk a lot about this, but it's meant to compensate for structural gaps in our society, not biological differences.
37:50And what do I mean by that?
37:51Denmark, which they keep likening us to, we're not like them.
37:56Denmark has near universal health care.
37:58There's no childhood poverty.
38:00People get universal vaccination.
38:03If somebody is sick, they get immediate access to care.
38:06In the United States, you and I have had this conversation, Stephanie, over the course of six years, across a range of dimensions.
38:12Obviously, that's not the case in the United States at scale.
38:15We have zip codes across the country where there's dramatic differences in access to care.
38:20One in 10 children are underinsured or uninsured.
38:23There's childhood poverty rates, dwarf that in Denmark.
38:26So what works for them does not work for us.
38:28We're 50x the size.
38:29We have a very different burden of disease.
38:32And I'll just put a finer point on this.
38:34Kids die of flu.
38:36Hundreds of kids die of flu in a bad flu season.
38:38We're in one right now.
38:40Rotavirus hospitalizations pre-rotavirus vaccine.
38:43That was on that list.
38:43That's moved off the recommended list.
38:4570,000 hospitalizations of rotavirus amongst kids pre-vaccination.
38:51Again, not the case in Denmark.
38:53We have to do something different.
38:56Vaccines account and compensate for structural gaps in our society.
38:59So how much of a disaster is this for family doctors?
39:04Because every well-intentioned mom and dad out there going to see their doctor is most likely some level from somewhere between confused and panic-stricken of what to do here.
39:14It's a conversions of many disasters, not just one.
39:21Let's take pediatricians or family physicians, you name it.
39:25They have 15 minutes.
39:26My wife's a pediatrician.
39:27She has 15 minutes to triage and to address the concerns of a parent, perhaps a parent of a newborn.
39:32Now they're adding to that list and questions that, frankly, don't need to be asked.
39:40But fine, let's try to ask and answer them.
39:42It's appropriate to bring them to your trusted medical provider.
39:46That's critical.
39:47But how many times are we going to do that?
39:48They've been doing shared clinical decision-making now for the last six months.
39:51It's overwhelming to providers across the country.
39:54And they're not doing their job, Stephanie.
39:57Their job is to provide clear recommendations on things that make sense.
40:01There was no, let's be clear, no new clinical data, no new research to justify any of this, number one.
40:07Number two, Denmark's own head of their own CDC and their top public health officials have come out and directly panned this decision and said that what works for them should not and does not work for our country.
40:19So their own officials are saying that this makes no sense.
40:22And I'll just say number three, the whole purpose of this supposedly, this conspiracy theory from RFK, is that too many, again, to paraphrase him, too many childhood vaccines is exposing kids to aluminum, which has been proven to be safe.
40:39There's very small quantities of it in vaccines to help augment the immune response.
40:43He thinks that we're giving too much aluminum to kids, and that's causing potential neurodevelopmental problems.
40:49Denmark, actually, Stephanie, the full irony here is that it's Denmark scientists that just recently published the definitive paper showing that aluminum in vaccines is completely safe at the concentrations in which it exists.
41:02So talk about cherry-breaking.
41:04But RFK just thinks that.
41:07So let's just have some sweeping changes.
41:09Dr. Gupta, this is so confusing and stressful for families.
41:13Pile on to that.
41:14Every parent out there has access to the Internet, which will also fill you with absolute misinformation.
41:19But we're really lucky to have you here with us tonight.
41:22Always good to see you.
41:26That does it for us.
41:27But before we go, tomorrow, my partner, Ali Velshi, and I are back for another live stream on YouTube of It's Happening with Velshi Rule.
41:34We're going to dig deeper into the situation in Venezuela.
41:38And you've spent the last four days hearing what all the news organizations are telling you about Venezuela.
41:43But this is your chance to ask us your questions.
41:46What do you want to know?
41:47We're going to do our best to explain.
41:48So send your questions, your videos to VelshiRule at MSNOW.
41:52We're going to do our very best to answer them.
41:54You can scan the QR code on your screen to watch us on YouTube.
41:57It starts at 3 p.m. Eastern.
41:59And you can also catch me with Kara Swisher on the Pivot podcast.
42:03We kicked off 2026 with a look at all the big stories ahead from Venezuela to AI to the story sweeping the culture, Heated Rivalry, the hottest show on ice.
42:13You can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts.
42:16And with that, I am signing off.
42:17I got to go to bed.
42:18Clearly, I got a big day tomorrow.
42:20For now, I'm signing off.
42:22From everyone here at MSNOW, thank you for staying up late with me.
42:25Have a great night.
42:27I got to go to bed.
42:29I got to go to bed.
42:29I got to go to bed.
42:30I got to go to bed.
42:30I got to go to bed.
42:31I got to go to bed.
42:32I got to go to bed.
42:33I got to go to bed.
42:34I got to go to bed.
42:35I got to go to bed.
42:36I got to go to bed.
42:37I got to go to bed.
42:38I got to go to bed.
42:39I got to go to bed.
42:40I got to go to bed.
42:41I got to go to bed.
42:42I got to go to bed.
42:43I got to go to bed.
42:44I got to go to bed.
42:45I got to go to bed.
42:46I got to go to bed.
42:47I got to go to bed.
42:48I got to bed.
42:49I got to go to bed.
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