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The Traitors - Uncloaked Season 3 Episode 3
The Traitors - Uncloaked
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The Traitors - Uncloaked
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00:00Companion Podcast with me, Ed Gamble.
00:02This is the show when we hear from all of the banished and murdered players first.
00:06So, spoiler alert.
00:08Please make sure you've watched episode 3 of The Traitors before you watch this.
00:12You have been warned.
00:13Coming up on Uncloaked...
00:17Yep, they've got one already.
00:19Banished Traitor Hugo is here to talk about being caught out by his fellow players.
00:24Murdered faithful Ben joins us to share his experience of the game.
00:27We have the exclusive moment when Ben came face-to-face with Hugo and found out who the traitors are.
00:33Plus, the secret traitor is about to be revealed.
00:36We'll be dissecting the mother of all cliffhangers with celebrity traitor Kat Burns and Series 3 faithful turn traitor Charlotte.
00:48Welcome, Kat and Charlotte.
00:50Now, before we get into this, because we've got a lot to talk about, Charlotte, can I ask you about your socks?
00:55Yes.
00:56Look.
00:57They say faithful and traitor.
00:59Amazing.
01:00How good.
01:00I love it.
01:01I love them.
01:01I just think it's nice to have one foot representing each of my roles in the castle.
01:07And Kat, I like your traitors.
01:11Now, as traitors, you are used to being in control in the turret.
01:15That's obviously where you do all of your scheming.
01:17But how are Rachel and Stephen feeling in this moment as the secret traitor is about to walk through the door?
01:22No, I'm really jealous because I basically want to go back and be your secret traitor.
01:26I'm really jealous.
01:27That red cloak.
01:29Unbelievable.
01:30Yeah, it looks, it's pretty, it's pretty swish.
01:33Yeah.
01:33As my dad would say.
01:36I don't know.
01:38If that was me, I would have just surrendered to the fact that I don't know who it is.
01:41Yeah.
01:41And then each day we get a shortlist, I would just write down or mentally note down who the shortlist people are.
01:48And then if I live to see the day that I get really, really far in, I'd go, right, well, I could just whittle it down.
01:54It's probably one of these people.
01:56Yeah.
01:56That could be it.
01:57Like, I wouldn't be stressed going, I need to find out, like, who the secret traitor is.
02:01Because I just, I think that's what Rachel's doing too much.
02:03She's not playing.
02:04Agree.
02:05Remembering that people might be thinking who, like, who's a traitor?
02:08Because no one else is thinking there's a secret traitor, because no one else knows there's a secret traitor.
02:12She's, like, watching everybody, and I'm like, no, just wait, just chill out.
02:15There's no point.
02:16She's got enough going on.
02:17Yeah, exactly.
02:18She doesn't need to worry about who the secret traitor is as well.
02:20Yeah.
02:21We're going to go on a deep dive with all the theories.
02:23Okay.
02:23I do want to know, though, how did we rate Rachel's attempt to get Stephen to the family tree to do the shortlist selection?
02:31What, like needing to learn some Latin or something?
02:32Yeah, you speak Latin, don't you?
02:34Yeah, I mean.
02:35And Rhys was like, I'll come.
02:36And she was like, oh, man, get away, no.
02:39In fact, Rhys left straight away, just left them in the kitchen.
02:41I know, and then Rhys was like, oh, I don't want to go alone.
02:43I don't want to go by myself, come on, guys.
02:45And she was like, oh.
02:45See, I thought that was quite good, that it was a good excuse to get him to the family tree.
02:50But the bit that really set my teeth on edge a little bit is when she sort of got rid of Rhys to keep her and Stephen alone.
02:57Yeah, I don't think she should have done that.
02:59And then I didn't see even clock it.
03:00He was like, well, now Rhys will literally know.
03:03If they spot.
03:04If it comes down, if it's revealed that the death was done by the family tree.
03:07Let's remind ourselves of that moment when Rachel tries to shake off Rhys.
03:12Such a connection here.
03:15There's a big connection here.
03:16Like, that's very, very dangerous.
03:19Yeah.
03:20Speaking of dangerous.
03:22I've honestly.
03:23I need to give you a heads up on something.
03:26I can go if you want me to go.
03:27I don't mind going.
03:28Will you give me, I want to just.
03:30Of course, of course.
03:31Sorry, sorry.
03:31No, don't be daft, don't be daft.
03:33Oh my God.
03:34See, what's interesting about that is she doesn't say, can you go, Therese?
03:37He does offer that.
03:39But I still think he'll remember that they were by the family tree together.
03:42That if indeed someone spots on the family tree, that there's those marks on there.
03:47I think it was bad wording.
03:49Either she should have just waited it out until Rhys left and got bored of looking at the family tree.
03:55We should say as well, we know Rhys is a faithful at this point because he's been on a murder shortlist previously.
04:00So how do we think they did, Kat, in terms of selecting the people on the portrait?
04:05Do you think they took too long?
04:06I don't think she really thought about it because I guess statistically the secret traitor would have picked one of those.
04:12Nine anyway, so.
04:13I would have just put my finger on the painting and just done a line.
04:16Yeah, just smeared it across.
04:18And just tried to cover the bases.
04:20And then signed Ross.
04:21Yeah.
04:23I think Rachel is very, yeah, very thoughtful and she is thinking about me.
04:26She does seem quite a good traitor.
04:27So thinking if I put my finger in the red paint pot, I'm holding a red glass.
04:32Yeah.
04:32So I don't want to be able to see that.
04:33And then she goes and washes the glass and washes her finger at the same time.
04:36It is like watching a sort of murder plot happen.
04:38It's just down the drain.
04:40Yeah, it's very Agatha Christie, the whole thing.
04:42It is.
04:43What do we make of this pact that Rachel and Stephen made?
04:46The extended hug.
04:47Like, I'm never going to vote for you.
04:49I'm never going to vote for you.
04:50Yeah, too much.
04:52I mean, I can't wait for that to be shown in a flashback moment in like two episodes time.
04:58I mean, it's really early on in the game.
05:00I don't think you should be doing that.
05:02I think Stephen especially has shown that if Fanafite is on someone, he will dash them.
05:07So I, if I was Stephen, I would have been like, of course, I'm not voting your name.
05:12Yeah.
05:13And just cross my fingers behind my back.
05:15Yeah.
05:16Because I would have to vote for her if like...
05:19Yeah.
05:19To protect yourself.
05:20Exactly.
05:20You have to.
05:21So I think that was, you know, that was sweet that they did that.
05:24But I don't think that...
05:25I don't think either of them believed it.
05:27No, I agree.
05:28I don't think there was any sincerity from either side.
05:30I think it is so early on.
05:32And now we're going to meet another secret traitor.
05:34I mean, I honestly, I feel like this with the way Hugo's gone so soon.
05:40And then the secret traitor, I could see the traitors at the end being brand new traitors.
05:44Let's talk more about the secret traitor.
05:46I want secret traitor guesses from both of you.
05:49So we know who it isn't because of the murder shortlists.
05:53Yeah.
05:53Rhys, Maz and James are the ones who are left in the game who we know are faithful.
05:58And obviously, Nettie, Judy, Ben and Hugo are all gone.
06:01Kat, who do you think it is and why?
06:03At first, I thought it was Jade.
06:06And maybe because I just think she's a queen and that she's really fab and that she'd be great at it.
06:11I also did think it was Ellie because she's a psychologist.
06:19Yeah.
06:19And I just thought that would be amazing for a psychologist.
06:21She should be puppeteering everyone and like using her degree.
06:25Fiona as well, because she keeps saying things that might allude to the fact that she could be one.
06:31Can it be Ross?
06:32It could be Ross.
06:33Oh.
06:34It could be Ross.
06:34Should I go really left?
06:35No, Ross is in an absolute picture.
06:37He's a sweetie.
06:37He can't get his words out.
06:38He's just panicked all the time.
06:39Can we briefly understand this Ross-Nettie situation of like...
06:44He didn't articulate himself in the best way when probed about it.
06:47And I think because everyone's just looking at people in a really suspicious, with a suspicious lens.
06:53And because he didn't word things the way they wanted him to word things, which is, I think, just what the game is.
06:59You act differently to me.
07:00Totally.
07:01And I think that way is weird.
07:02Therefore, I'm voting for you.
07:03Yeah, so I think for him, he just was like, oh, you know, my plan was just to act like I didn't know her.
07:07And then people were like, your plan?
07:09What do you mean by your plan?
07:10What if he is the secret traitor?
07:12I think that would be great if he was.
07:13Kat, obviously, this is a great opportunity to play the game at home.
07:16And this would be your first time playing as a faithful.
07:19How does that feel?
07:21I don't like it.
07:24You want control.
07:25It's not fun.
07:26I don't enjoy it.
07:27No, it's fun.
07:28I think it's actually, it's fun to not know.
07:30And it's fun to be with the rest of the world and be confused as well.
07:34It's fun to not know who a traitor is without the worry of being murdered.
07:38Exactly.
07:39Yeah.
07:39Exactly.
07:40Okay, now, traitor Hugo and faithful Ben are about to join the conversation.
07:45But first, it's time to find out what happened when they came face to face immediately after leaving the game.
07:54Ben!
07:55Ben!
07:56How are you?
07:57Yeah, good, mate.
07:58Oh, good to see you, mate.
07:59I'm here.
08:03What I want to know is what happened at breakfast?
08:06Well, we twigged it with you.
08:08And obviously, we did take a moment to say what an excellent, you know, competitor and player you've been.
08:14Right, okay.
08:14How sorely you'd be missed.
08:15So that was definitely the feeling at breakfast.
08:17They were very sad that you weren't there.
08:19Right.
08:19I actually think there's five traitors.
08:22That's what I've written down.
08:23Right.
08:23I've got three little other suspects, but they're my five traitors.
08:27My five traitors are Maz.
08:29Yeah.
08:30Amanda.
08:31Yeah.
08:32Ross.
08:33Yeah.
08:34Sam.
08:35Got it.
08:35And you.
08:36Why me?
08:37So you're a barrister.
08:38True.
08:39Right?
08:40We're sitting at the round table, and I'm looking at you.
08:43Now, you're perfect today.
08:45This was you at the round table.
08:49Ah.
08:50As if you couldn't care about anything that was going on.
08:53I was waiting for people to ask questions.
08:56Not once did you cross-examine anybody at the round table.
09:01Right?
09:02And I thought, what is going on here?
09:05Right?
09:06So now I want to know, what were you?
09:09A traitor or a faithful?
09:11You are a very canny man.
09:16What are you telling me?
09:17You're a traitor.
09:18A devil.
09:20You're a traitor.
09:20Yes!
09:23Get in there!
09:24Congrats.
09:25Get in there!
09:25And it's because you were on to me, we thought you would never be banished, because you were
09:30never a traitor.
09:32Everyone could see you were faithful, Ben, and that's just a massive compliment to you.
09:36You wore your heart on your sleeve.
09:37You were walking around trying to find the traitors every day.
09:41Yeah.
09:41So I hope you take it as a compliment.
09:43No, I do.
09:44That you had to be murdered, because you would never be banished.
09:46Yeah.
09:47So, Ben, I bet you want to know who the others were.
09:49Yes, I do.
09:49So, if you reach to your left, sir.
09:54Have a look.
09:54It's in there.
09:55The secrets of who the other traitors were.
09:58Oh, this is exciting.
10:00What's it say?
10:01Read it.
10:03Hugel.
10:04Oh, you knew that.
10:04Rachel!
10:13Bloody hell.
10:14Now, why are you so surprised?
10:15Oh, she never changed her demeanour at all.
10:18That has really surprised me.
10:19Now, she is canny and under the radar.
10:21When I saw her in the turret, I had the same reaction as you just did, Ben.
10:26I thought, no way!
10:27Jesus.
10:28You're so under the radar.
10:30Okay, go on.
10:31And?
10:34Stephen!
10:37Stephen!
10:38Only three.
10:40Well, Ross.
10:41What the hell was Ross doing?
10:43Ross is digging in myself a hole so deep he could play in Traitors Australia.
10:49I mean, that man is entirely innocent and yet has covered himself in guilt, suspicion.
10:56That's why I thought he was a traitor.
10:58Yeah.
11:00And Traitor Hugo and Faithful Ben are with us now.
11:03Yay!
11:04Thanks for having me.
11:05Welcome.
11:06I have to mention the outfits to start with, guys.
11:08You both look fantastic.
11:10Hugo with the crimson velvet tuxedo.
11:14The lining as well.
11:15Oh, a space-based lining.
11:18And Ben, of course, with the blue.
11:20Midnight blue.
11:21Midnight blue, thank you.
11:22Midnight blue velvet tuxedo.
11:24You look fantastic.
11:25And sometimes it's awkward when you turn up and you're wearing the same thing,
11:27but I think it's really worked for you guys.
11:29Oh, thank you.
11:30Thanks.
11:31Hugo, you're a real Welshman, of course.
11:33Yes.
11:34How does it feel to come face-to-face with Charlotte, the fake Welsh person?
11:38Wow.
11:38Not so far.
11:40Shemay.
11:41Shemay, Charlotte.
11:42When they started saying that you were Welsh towards the end of your departure, I was
11:47like, what?
11:48You didn't sound Welsh at all.
11:50I don't know.
11:50Maybe it's just, it comes and goes.
11:53What did you make of Charlotte's accent on the show?
11:55It was good.
11:55Yeah, it was good.
11:56Because it was low-key.
11:57It wasn't, you know, sing-songy, beautiful Queen Fiona.
12:00You know what?
12:00It had to be.
12:01Because although Fiona was everything I ever wanted to channel, which is like, absolutely
12:05amazing, mother of dragons, that kind of thing.
12:09Yeah.
12:09It takes so much energy.
12:11Yeah.
12:11Oh, I thought of Charlotte.
12:12Church was in the room with two.
12:14Massively pared back.
12:16Kat, what did you make of Hugo as a traitor?
12:19How do you rate his efforts?
12:21Do you know what?
12:21I think you did a really good job.
12:26Now, can you say that once more without laughing?
12:28No, no, no.
12:30I think the speech was, I think it was when you were like, whoever did this should not
12:39be happy with themselves.
12:41Can we just have a moment?
12:42Because Ben, I was next to him yesterday and I was sweating a bit, but that senior gentleman
12:47was giving absolutely everything.
12:49Yeah, yeah, for the mission he was.
12:50That was a tough mission, that hill two-thirds of the way through.
12:53Whoever has done that is beyond me.
12:59I think everyone went, ooh.
13:01Oh, yeah.
13:02I think it's you, Sweet Pea.
13:03To be fair, though, if you'd done that and been a faithful, it still would have been suspicious.
13:08Like Kaz, I did a Kaz.
13:09That is literally what I said.
13:11I think it's just drawing too much attention to yourself.
13:13You cannot draw attention to yourself.
13:14And because you are a traitor, it was like, nah.
13:17Definitely.
13:17He shot himself in the foot.
13:19Big stale, didn't he?
13:19But I was giving you a send-off.
13:22Yeah, mate.
13:23You don't need to be so careful.
13:23It's a funny way.
13:24Sure, isn't it?
13:25I think it would have been better if you had done it in a smaller group.
13:28When you were just eating or whatever, you could have just been like, oh, do you know
13:31what?
13:32Yeah.
13:32Instead of being like, oh, you did, you commanded the attention of the room, which I think is
13:38always a mistake.
13:39Always.
13:39Yeah.
13:39But halfway through, I thought you've got away with this because you said, didn't Ben
13:44do well in the mission and all of that sort of thing.
13:45And people agreed with you.
13:46They went, yeah, he did really well.
13:48And then when you slipped into the second half and went, it's beyond mean.
13:52And you just see, you see a shot of Rachel just going, oh, my God.
13:56I know.
13:57I know.
13:58Yeah.
13:58Ben, we saw that incredible moment in that clip there where you accuse Hugo of being a
14:03traitor before he's revealed it.
14:05Yes.
14:05Literally pointing the finger at him.
14:06Yes.
14:07You're a traitor.
14:08Yes.
14:08How did that make you feel when you found out you were right?
14:10Yes.
14:10Brilliant.
14:11Right.
14:11Got him and I won her.
14:13And I knew it was him.
14:14He was at the round table.
14:15And every time I looked at him, he was like this.
14:18I was off.
14:19And I thought, what is he playing at?
14:20I was off the clock.
14:21I'm a lawyer, right?
14:22The clock wasn't ready.
14:23And then he was gobbing off left, right and centre to everybody.
14:25And I thought, what are you doing, mate?
14:27You know, you're definitely a traitor.
14:30Now, obviously, Ben, that was a great accusation of Hugo that we've just seen.
14:33But Hugo, how did that compare to being absolutely railroaded and intensely questioned by Harriet
14:40at the round table?
14:41I was chopped off at the ankles.
14:43I was defeated.
14:43Yeah.
14:44I mean, you know, yeah, it was like a machine gun opening up.
14:47And there was just no way back to it.
14:50And fair play to her.
14:51I don't know if she's fallen out with another barrister in the past, perhaps.
14:54May it be the motivation, but the delivery of it, it was like a missile.
14:58But she's hiding that.
14:59So hats off to her or wigs off to her, as we'd say.
15:01Well, let's remind ourselves of that.
15:02Oh, please, let's.
15:03Oh, yes.
15:04It has occurred to me from the moment that I found out that you were a barrister, that
15:11you would be a prime target for the traitors to take out.
15:16You have experience at cross-examination.
15:18You're good at presenting your case and you're highly articulate.
15:21So I had in my mind, as I came into breakfast this morning, if you had survived, that really
15:29raised big questions in my mind.
15:31A number of people also said that they were intimidated by your professional position to take you on.
15:41They are hard facts as far as far as I'm concerned.
15:45That was intense pressure.
15:47That must have felt really intense.
15:49Yeah, at that point, really.
15:51Yeah, there's not really much you could do about thinking about the exit and how you're going to get out of there.
15:56I mean, look, that logic, you cannot deny.
15:59Yeah.
15:59As she said, you're either a traitor or the traitors are going to think, well, this guy eventually is going to do something useful.
16:05Yeah.
16:06So why didn't they get rid of me?
16:07Yeah.
16:07And I think, so I had a strategy, which obviously didn't work.
16:10Well, first of all, enjoy the short time you've got there.
16:12Yeah.
16:13Try and do a couple of, you know, mess around a bit.
16:15And second, be chaotic, not slick, because people think a lawyer is going to be really professional and down the line.
16:21That didn't bother me much time.
16:23And then, and this was just such a moonshot, if I could find a traitor.
16:28I may be one of the only traitors ever on this fantastic show, a traitor genuinely looking for a traitor, the secret traitor.
16:35Because as you guys know, when you are a traitor, you have to act like a faithful.
16:39So that was a really good headspace to be in, was like looking for one.
16:44Did you have an inkling in that moment with Harriet that you were going toe-to-toe with a fellow barrister or ex-barrister as Harriet?
16:51100%.
16:52I thought that she was, yeah, a very senior, respected lawyer who we just hadn't crossed paths.
16:58Or even worse, perhaps she'd sent me a brief and I'd, you know, been against her.
17:02But there was something there that was not on display.
17:05Just in that moment when she said that.
17:06That was motivating her.
17:07But then, as I say, the execution of it was just...
17:10Outstanding.
17:10Yeah, and she was telling the truth.
17:12But she's kept it a secret, her profession.
17:15Yeah.
17:15Did you consider Heidi yours?
17:17I did, I did.
17:18But I thought, again, go in there and don't treat it like a court, treat it like a stage.
17:23And I was kind of trying to channel Phantom of the Opera meets, you know, some sort of slapstick.
17:28Sorry, mate.
17:30Is that right?
17:30There was a wonderful moment in that exchange as well, where you are trying to dig your way out of this hole as Harriet's speaking.
17:37And you say, well, yeah, a lot of people have mentioned that I've not been cross-examining anyone at the round table.
17:41And Harriet goes, yeah, I hadn't even considered that.
17:43But yeah, that's also part of my argument against you.
17:46Yeah, well, I'll have that.
17:47Yeah, thanks, mate.
17:50Taxi!
17:51Now, obviously, Stephen voted for you at this round table, turned on you very early.
17:55Did you expect that to happen so early in the game?
17:57Look, traitor's going to trape, trape, trape, trape, trape.
18:00You've got to just shake it off, shake it off.
18:03The names for traitors, we're all traitors.
18:05Yeah.
18:05Yeah, of course.
18:07But he didn't have to.
18:08You know, it's so early on, he could have voted for someone else, and it wouldn't be, I don't think, suspicious to have voted for anyone else.
18:14Yeah, I think he saw it where he was going.
18:15Yeah, but I think he was panicking.
18:16I think Stephen was actually panicking, and he thought to himself, I'm going to join the Klan, and I'm going to vote.
18:21Oh, yeah, that's a good point.
18:22Because he was under pressure because of the room.
18:23Because he was under pressure.
18:24Because he was in the room.
18:24Right, so he thought to himself, right, I'm going to vote for you.
18:27Yeah.
18:27Then it takes a bit of pressure off me.
18:29Yeah.
18:29And that's what I think he did.
18:31Yeah, but I got no problem with it.
18:32I mean, the best dressed traitor, I mean, he was his lovely sort of soft voice.
18:37And then he's the brutal killer.
18:39It's just great.
18:40So, obviously, there was a lot of chat about keeping your behaviour consistent after the traitor selection.
18:46I think we are sat with the absolute queen of staying consistent after the traitor selection.
18:51Kat, what do you think Hugo could have done to maybe stay under the radar as you did?
18:56I think jobs play a really big part in the game.
19:00Because I'm a singer and I make vulnerable songs, it's easier for me to, my disposition to just be naturally calm and quiet.
19:08Because it's hard when you're a traitor, when you know someone is a faithful, to go for them and say,
19:13I think you're a faithful because of X, Y, and Z.
19:14And know that they're going to come back and go, well, I'm not because of X, Y, and Z.
19:17And you know that they're not.
19:19So it's easier.
19:20That's why most traitors will sit back because they're like, I know none of these people are, so I'm just going to.
19:24So because your job, people would expect you to speak up and say something because you didn't, that backfired.
19:30So I think if I was you, I probably would have tried my hardest to go for people a bit more or say theories a bit more so that people think that you're actively trying to be in the game and find a traitor.
19:43Ben, I do want to ask you this.
19:44You mentioned that Hugo was one of your five names, as we know.
19:49Well, he was number one.
19:50Is he who you would have gone for at the next round table?
19:53Yes.
19:53Would you have voted for?
19:54Yes, 100%.
19:55Yeah.
19:55Really?
19:56I did, yeah, 100%.
19:58Judy, I changed my mind with Judy, right?
20:01I was actually going to go for Ross, right?
20:04Surprisingly.
20:05But the consensus, the opinion round the table, I just followed everybody else because everything that was coming out, I thought, maybe I'm wrong here and it is Judy.
20:13But then it was him.
20:14He was next.
20:15In fact, if I had two votes, I'd have voted him twice.
20:18Well.
20:18Well, it's nothing personal, mate.
20:20I would have killed you twice.
20:27Hugo, after you left, after you were banished, we saw Rachel being quite delighted that you'd been banished.
20:34She maybe said it on two or three occasions, going, using the word delighted, I'm absolutely delighted that Hugo's gone.
20:39How does that feel?
20:40Well, I took the opposite meaning.
20:42No, and those two, because of the way they're playing it under the radar, I think they're a very, very well-matched, very good team.
20:52Actually, the three of us, we got on in the turret.
20:55We never really disagreed about, well, we didn't have much choice.
20:58You thought you got on.
20:59Yeah.
21:00Yeah, fair enough.
21:01Behind closed doors.
21:02It's the traitors, right?
21:03Yeah.
21:03It is the traitors.
21:04Because I think quite quickly, Rachel was saying, Hugo will throw me under the bus at the first given opportunity.
21:10Rachel didn't trust you straight away.
21:12I messed that up, because I said I'd throw the secret traitor under the bus when they came into the thing.
21:17And Rachel picked me up and said, well, you're going to do the same to us.
21:19So, you know, day one, lesson one of diplomacy school.
21:22Yeah.
21:22Don't, you know.
21:24Yeah.
21:24Because you can't trust anyone.
21:26Like, even if you're team traitor or team faithful, you are really just team you.
21:29Yeah.
21:30Like, you can only really look out for yourself.
21:32I think so.
21:33Ben, I want to talk about your murder a little bit now.
21:35Oh, dear.
21:36What was it like to walk in and see the dreaded envelope on the chair?
21:40Oh, what a nightmare that was, wasn't it?
21:42That was...
21:43But there again, I've got to say, I've won by being on that show, right?
21:48Whether I was murdered or not, to be on the show, I've won already.
21:51Yeah.
21:52So, to see the envelope, I knew it was part of the game, but I was absolutely gutted.
21:57And I knew it was him.
21:58I knew, hands down, it was him.
22:01I don't even know why I'm sitting here.
22:02Oh, mate, come on, come on.
22:04It's because I know your point.
22:05And I was absolutely gutted, but I was thrilled to do the game.
22:09And I think I said that on my exit.
22:11Yeah.
22:12Yeah.
22:12But to be fair, we wouldn't have chosen that shortlist.
22:15And we did have a choice of three.
22:19So, and there were four of us, we know now, that put you in the frame.
22:22So, there was two others you could have picked rather than me.
22:24Yeah.
22:25Or I'm a quarter guilty.
22:28But you were an amazing detective.
22:30And that's why I was happy to vote for you.
22:32Because when you asked me sort of four or five questions on the bounce,
22:35I thought, I cannot get anything past this one.
22:37Yeah.
22:38Seriously.
22:38So, you were an amazing sort of detective, investigator character, I think,
22:42picking up on every little thing that was said and done.
22:45And you were so nice, you know, we had to get with you
22:47because you never would have been banished, mate.
22:48Yeah, I know you said that.
22:49That was really kind of you.
22:50That's true.
22:51Do you think this is truthful or do you think he's dressing it all up as a compliment?
22:53No, I think that bit's truthful because he actually said that to me.
22:57He says, I don't think you were ever going to get banished.
22:59And I think that came across when they were all speaking at breakfast anyway.
23:03Yeah, I think so.
23:03I really appreciated that.
23:05Yeah.
23:05That's the only thing I'll take is pause it.
23:08Oh, well.
23:09Charlotte, would you have chosen to murder Ben on that shortlist?
23:14Because the rest of the shortlist was Rhys and Maz.
23:16It was Maz's second time, wasn't it, on the list of three.
23:18So, to be honest, I'd probably just be like, yeah, okay, two strikes.
23:22Yeah.
23:22But we didn't know in the turret what was the secret traitor thinking to put Maz on twice.
23:28In a way, it protects the secret traitor because if you keep repetition on the list,
23:33you're not, every time they put a new name on the list, you know they're not the secret traitor.
23:38Yeah, true.
23:38So, by repeating it.
23:39Yeah, God, it's like three dimensions.
23:41No, I know.
23:42I mean, frankly, we were saying they should have repeated both two.
23:45Yeah, they would have changed one.
23:46And then, you know, just changed one.
23:47So, I think that's sensible from them.
23:50I would have got rid of Rhys.
23:51Yeah?
23:51I would have kept you in, Ben.
23:53Yeah.
23:54Oh, you're so lovely.
23:56There we are.
23:57But it was the choice to murder...
24:01I love you, Kat.
24:01Yeah, I love you too.
24:03I think they went for you, and I may be wrong, Hugo, as well,
24:06because you were the most liked or the one that everyone thought,
24:10why would you ever kill Ben?
24:11And it causes the most chaos.
24:13Yeah, that's right.
24:14An earthquake under the castle, all that kind of thing.
24:16And it did.
24:17It did.
24:17Because it has people looking in every direction,
24:19and then they're all snapping at each other.
24:20Yeah, I totally agree with that,
24:22because if I'd have been a traitor, I'd have done the same.
24:25Yeah.
24:25Absolutely.
24:26I'd have looked at, well, the person that was...
24:29I'm not saying I was popular,
24:30but the person that was kind of under the radar,
24:33that was quite nice, I'd have been Dame.
24:35Yeah.
24:35Without a doubt.
24:36Okay, Ben and Hugo, I have to get both of your thoughts
24:40on the twist of the century,
24:41which is, of course, the secret traitor,
24:42which you were party to.
24:44At the moment, we find out about the secret traitor, Hugo.
24:47But Ben, you're obviously just finding out about it
24:49as you watch the show go out.
24:51Watch the show, yeah.
24:52Yeah.
24:53We know that Maz is a faithful,
24:55but can I get your reasons as to why you suspect
24:57the other players that you put on your list, please?
25:00Because, obviously, one of them could be the secret traitor.
25:03You've got Amanda, who you suspected.
25:05Yeah.
25:06Why do you think she might be a traitor?
25:07Amanda, Amanda, to me, was very...
25:10She was very inquisitive.
25:11She was like...
25:13Like a lawyer, I suppose,
25:15or a barrister or detective or something like that.
25:18She was questioning everything that was going on,
25:20and I thought, right, okay, why is she doing that?
25:22And she was having a go at you quite a lot, wasn't she?
25:25Right?
25:26She's not all, Ben.
25:27And I thought, right, okay,
25:28I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here,
25:30but I've still got this 10% about you
25:32that I'm not fully covered with.
25:34Yeah.
25:35So that was kind of her.
25:36Such an amazing moment at breakfast as well
25:38when they all start talking about how funny it would be
25:40if there was a secret detective in there.
25:42Yeah.
25:43And she just has to sit there like...
25:45Yeah.
25:47You also suspected Ross.
25:48We know that there was a lot of suspicions around Ross.
25:51Oh, Ross was really...
25:52Poor Ross.
25:52Is that mainly because of the Nettie situation
25:54and how he reacted to it?
25:55Yeah, it was a Nettie situation,
25:57and then if you watch it back when Judy goes, right?
26:00Now, everybody goes, oh, like that.
26:03Ross is, whoa!
26:05Right?
26:05If you watch his reaction,
26:07and I thought, that's a bit over the top.
26:08So that's why I was heading down his route.
26:11Well, I think we can agree
26:12that the secret traitor twist is gigantic.
26:15It's one of the biggest twists
26:16that's ever been on the show.
26:17Yeah.
26:17Hugo, you referred to it as feeling like middle management.
26:20Yes.
26:21When Claudia told you what was happening.
26:23How did you feel that moment when Claudia let you know
26:27that someone else would be feeding you the shortlist every night?
26:29I wanted a direct report to my queen of darkness.
26:33It was really annoying because I wanted to kill Fiona, for example,
26:37because I couldn't lie to her,
26:39because she was just, like, lying to my mum or my bigger sister,
26:41and I just couldn't lie to her.
26:43So I wanted her gone.
26:44And just not to have the freedom at all
26:47to be dictated to by someone else.
26:48And we couldn't even figure out
26:50if the secret traitor was trying to help us
26:52or just look after themselves.
26:53We really were all at sea.
26:55I think they're probably just trying to look after themselves.
26:56I think that makes sense.
26:57As a lover of the game, it's genius.
26:59It is now three-dimensional traitors, isn't it?
27:02But, yeah, in the moment, it was annoying.
27:04And the red cloak.
27:05Like, I'm sorry, but I never thought
27:07the green cloak would look inferior.
27:09Yeah.
27:09Oh, thanks.
27:10I want to wear that red cloak.
27:12Yeah.
27:12We now know that the secret traitor
27:14is going to rejoin the traitors in the turret.
27:16Yeah.
27:16But you had no idea what was going to happen in the future,
27:19whether you would ever know who the secret traitor is.
27:21Right.
27:21You don't know how it's going to play out.
27:22You don't know whether that hierarchy that you talk about
27:24is going to be there sort of constantly.
27:26Yeah.
27:26Yeah.
27:27So it was completely baffling.
27:29Hugo, what's it like watching Rachel and Stephen
27:31navigate the game now you're gone?
27:33Are you going to be rooting for them
27:35or will you be delighted if there's a downfall?
27:37No, I wish them all the best.
27:38I think they were playing it absolutely properly.
27:41And they're both very canny, smart people
27:44and they're both lovely people.
27:45And yeah, we were all traitors together
27:47and I would have taken the first opportunity
27:48to knife them in the front with alacrity.
27:52Yeah.
27:53Now we're out of time for part one,
27:55but we'll keep chatting over on BBC Sounds.
27:57I'm going to ask Hugo who he would have murdered next
28:00and we'll find out if Ben told Claudie
28:02he wanted to be a tracer or a faithful.
28:04Plus there'll be more from Charlotte and Kat.
28:06It's all in your bonus episode of Uncloaked,
28:08which you can hear right now.
28:10Just scan the QR code on the screen
28:12and listen as you get ready for bed.
28:14I'm back on Wednesday night straight after episode four
28:16with all the reactions to that secret traitor reveal.
28:19It's a huge moment.
28:21Who's it going to be?
28:22Big thanks to Kat, Charlotte, Hugo and Ben
28:24and to you at home for watching.
28:26I'm Ed Gamble.
28:27Stay faithful.
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