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00:00Ask her a couple of questions about the release process.
00:03I'm a little bit intimidated to go talk
00:05to those guys who I haven't talked to in forever.
00:07Like, I am a grown-ass woman, but Mary,
00:11I need you to make that first call for me so he doesn't like.
00:15They get to say whether or not she was forced
00:18to stay married to Cody forever.
00:20It is kind of intimidating, and it shouldn't be that way.
00:23I am following through with my plans for apology to my ex-wives.
00:29I feel conviction in what I am doing.
00:33Well, you've done two of them.
00:35How do you foresee it going with Mary?
00:37To be honest with you, I feel like Mary probably
00:39has more, potentially more, bitterness.
00:44I love you, and I do my best to listen and not judge.
00:48But what the are you thinking, saying, OK, sure,
00:52I'm going to go meet you in Cedar City?
00:54I'm very curious to know what this is all about.
00:59If she punches me, I'll say, I deserve that.
01:03And I will persevere until she hears me.
01:07And I will centres much deeper through.
01:10I am, I am doing so.
01:11And I will try to make another one day before the arrival
01:14but he knows, I think it may seem like that last night.
01:15But I want the opportunity to pay for the living.
01:17And I'm trying to get that.
01:18It's CHILDREN�� there.
01:19And I think it always werfen me
01:26in a way I chose this project.
01:31And I think I don't have to see it like someone you should.
01:32I'm in Cedar City, Utah, and I'm in a strange mood today.
01:45And I'm here to, honestly, I'm here to apologize.
01:50I am sort of surprised that Mary agreed to meet with me after everything.
01:56But, you know, as long as I don't talk bad about Jen, I think I'm going to be okay.
01:59I haven't spoken with Mary except through lawyers.
02:04Mary and I weren't talking because we made an agreement when she moved.
02:09I helped her move.
02:11She was in a good place.
02:13And when we depart, it's like, we're going to be kind to each other, right?
02:16Absolutely.
02:17And the next thing I see is her friends just trashing me.
02:21And so I got right in her face on the phone.
02:24But I was like, you need to have your friends shut their mouths.
02:29And I berated her friends.
02:32And I think she took that really, really personal.
02:39Mary and I have a lot of history.
02:42There is a tendency for us to escalate a conversation to not even be able to talk in seconds.
02:53It's explosive.
02:57We never managed that in our marriage.
03:00If we want any kind of relationship at all, we're going to have to manage it now.
03:04Are you putting them in the trash bag?
03:19Mom used to always gather them in a bucket.
03:21We have buckets.
03:22And dump it.
03:23You know, we always had a garden in one form or another the whole time the kids were growing up.
03:28Look at how big arouses are, Maddie.
03:30Look, they're gigantic.
03:32The bees are coming now.
03:33And it's much easier to garden in North Carolina than anywhere I've lived before.
03:39So I've got to go for a couple of days.
03:41I've got to go to Salt Lake.
03:43I'm going to meet with the church leadership about a spiritual divorce from your dad.
03:49A release?
03:50Yeah.
03:51Yeah.
03:51I have approached the church leadership and asked for a release, given my justification, given my reasons.
03:58And then I need to go meet with them.
04:00And then I think it's kind of just a decision process after that.
04:05My initial reaction is, what the f***?
04:08Why?
04:11I don't want her to go back to it.
04:12I think plural marriage in general is pretty toxic.
04:18Look, I'm not part of the faith anymore, but Maddie, it was what I honored as a marriage covenant.
04:23It was a marriage to me, as binding as a legal marriage.
04:27So I just want to have all ties broken.
04:31Just, so.
04:34What if they tell you no?
04:36Where do you stand if they tell you no?
04:39I will feel like I've done everything I needed to do, and I'll hold myself good.
04:44Divorced.
04:45If they say no, and I mean, I have to admit, it is a possibility, but I don't think so.
04:49But if they do, I don't think God intends for me to stay connected to this person who doesn't want to be married to me and has moved on with his life, and the same with me.
04:59Like, why would that need to be honored?
05:01But, of course, that would be a little bit more of a crisis of faith, so I'd have to figure it out when I get there.
05:06Does Cody know you're going to ask for one?
05:09Yeah, I told him.
05:10You told him?
05:11Mm-hmm.
05:11He didn't really care.
05:13He was like, well, they're going to tell you you can't marry outside of the faith or whatever, and I'm like, that's fine.
05:17I don't know what that means, and I don't really care.
05:20I'm going to marry who I want if I ever get married again.
05:22But, you know, it's okay.
05:23I can do what to, I can follow my conscience on how this is supposed to play out.
05:28Um, you know, may have told me that she was going to ask for a release.
05:33I don't remember.
05:34It's just not something I'm tracking.
05:37One thing that is an issue that I know is that I'm not allowed to ask for one.
05:42So if an ex-wife calls me a coward for not going to the leaders and asking for a release, it's because I did.
05:49And they said, no, you can't ask for one.
05:52You know, it's like it could be a dogma of the religion.
05:55I have no idea.
06:00I am a little nervous to go talk to the church leadership.
06:02I don't know what I'm going to get.
06:03I don't know what I'm going to be, what I have to expect.
06:05So it's always a little bit of that unknown that gives you some butterflies.
06:10If they say no, it's going to be a huge struggle for me to reconcile what I know is right compared to what they say.
06:18And that will be, that will be hard.
06:25The whole situation with the property and the lawyers just made things, you know, pretty awkward.
06:47And so I'm like, how are we supposed to go into this conversation with the last time having no conversation?
06:56So I just don't know what to expect.
07:00Hey, Mary.
07:01How are you?
07:02I'm thriving.
07:05Thriving.
07:05Good.
07:06How are you?
07:07Hey, listen, nothing but goodwill here.
07:09Do you want a hug or you want to shake?
07:11I don't know, Cody.
07:16The last time I saw you, you completely ignored me.
07:20So I don't know.
07:21I'm sorry, Mary.
07:23I felt like you didn't even make eye contact.
07:26I only tried to make eye contact.
07:28Really?
07:29Okay.
07:29Yeah.
07:29Well, then we'll start from that bad place and move up.
07:34Okay.
07:35What do you think?
07:36Okay.
07:37Tell me about thriving.
07:39No, life is good.
07:40I'm just doing all good things.
07:45Good.
07:46Life is good.
07:47How about you?
07:48Details?
07:48What are your good things?
07:50You know what?
07:53I appreciate that you are curious.
07:58I'm friendly.
07:59But we're not in, we haven't had that kind of relationship to tell you all my deep, dark secrets.
08:06You know what I mean?
08:07I'm not asking for those.
08:09I know.
08:11I'm just.
08:12This is more about friendly.
08:18And I appreciate that.
08:19I don't expect you to be my friend.
08:21Well, I've tried.
08:23And I've wanted that.
08:25We said that we were going to do that.
08:27I agreed to that.
08:29And I did that.
08:30And then that I did not feel that you did that.
08:32Well, I don't want to argue.
08:34Okay.
08:34I'm here for a whole different reason.
08:36Okay.
08:36Okay.
08:36Okay.
08:36Okay.
08:36Okay.
08:39I'm here for a while.
08:40I'm here for a while.
08:41Cody didn't talk a lot about his relationships to me.
08:44That was a private thing.
08:46Like, his relationship with each wife was private.
08:49But it's not that way anymore.
08:54I didn't feel like I needed to be there because I know Cody will talk to me about it.
09:05Mine and Mary's history is its own minefield.
09:08One misstep can be like a landmine going off.
09:11That's the reason I want to apologize, is I helped her create this world that is so toxic.
09:25Well, I still got the vibe that you're very sore.
09:29I'm very guarded because I don't know what this is all about or why.
09:36And our last couple of interactions haven't been great.
09:41No, they've been through a lot of years.
09:45So, but you've got all of your share of Coyote Pass.
09:54Okay.
09:55You should be very happy.
09:57I kept my promise.
10:05But I don't want to go for water into the bridge.
10:10I just want to start or however you see it, just end.
10:17I apologize, Mary.
10:21Apologize for everything that has happened.
10:27And I basically want you to be able to have a very happy and wonderful life.
10:34I do have a very happy and wonderful life.
10:39I'm glad you do.
10:41That's good.
10:43That's a good thing.
10:45And that makes me feel...
10:49I...
10:50You don't need to feel anything about it.
10:52If you do, that's great.
10:55But I don't need you to feel anything about any way that my life is going.
11:02Okay.
11:06I want you more than anything to just be able to move on.
11:10I do.
11:11I am.
11:11I have.
11:13The way your friends talk about me, that doesn't seem like it.
11:16But I wanted you to be able to do that.
11:18You can stop right there.
11:22Listen, this isn't a time for us to fight.
11:25Well, then don't bring up my friends and what they say.
11:28Because guess what?
11:29I'm going to tell you this, Cody.
11:33No, I'm going to tell you this.
11:34Because it'll just ruin...
11:35No.
11:35I'm just here to apologize, Mary.
11:37Not to argue with you.
11:38No, I'm going to tell you this, Cody.
11:38I'm going to tell you.
11:40You're not going to shut me down anymore.
11:41My first mistake was ever saying that she did anything wrong.
11:49I don't need to win an argument, and I don't need validation here.
11:53And yet, I'm triggering.
11:54And I'm like, oh, dude, just stay on point.
11:58Just apologize again.
12:01You know, it's hard to hate a person who said, I'm sorry, a hundred times.
12:06At this point in the conversation, I thought, if this is how this is going to be, I'm not
12:14going to continue engaging in this.
12:16If it gets any more than this, I'm out.
12:19I'm going to walk away.
12:29You're in the basement, and you could hear everything upstairs.
12:32Yeah, Mary was upstairs, and I could hear everything.
12:36Apology is so needed here, because this is still so toxic.
12:44Do you apologize that you are toxic to me?
13:00I need to figure out what we've already spent with what's left in the budget.
13:06Yeah.
13:06So we can figure all of this out, because we've got a budget for it, but I'm going to
13:10be honest.
13:10I don't think I deducted the entire room.
13:12So we have a full basement in our house.
13:16None of the walls are finished.
13:18It's just one big, huge area.
13:20There's, like, plumbing for a bathroom, and we have plans for our basement.
13:24So a bedroom here, because I think having a room done here would be great.
13:28We're going to have a bathroom, full bathroom.
13:31Yeah, full bathroom.
13:31A bedroom for the kids, or whoever gets to come over.
13:34Mm-hmm.
13:35For guests.
13:36Now I have to be more creative.
13:37I can do it.
13:38For guests, or for one of our moms, I don't know.
13:41I don't know what's going to happen.
13:43And then this could be at, like, its own apartment.
13:46I have to tell you, this was the craziest thing I was thinking about the other day.
13:51I used to be a basement wife.
13:53In polygamy, there is a term, basement wife.
13:57I'm having, like, anxiety about it.
14:00It's almost like...
14:01That sounds kind of cool, a basement wife, and I have an upstairs wife, and then main upstairs.
14:06No, no, what did you just say?
14:07How many wives are you having?
14:09I have a basement wife.
14:11I don't like this conversation.
14:12Basement wife in polygamy is, you know, in houses, there's often a basement, and a wife
14:18sometimes has to live in the basement.
14:20But the mentality behind it is that you really are below another wife.
14:24When we moved into the Lehigh house, it was just my intention to be a team player.
14:28Like, there were three sections.
14:29There were three wives at the time.
14:30And, you know, Janelle had more kids, and there was only two bedrooms upstairs, maybe three bedrooms upstairs where Mary was.
14:37So it just worked to have me have that.
14:39It just worked.
14:40I was one.
14:41The last time we lived in Lehigh, and I really honestly felt like it.
14:45Did you do rock, paper, scissors to figure out who's going to be in the basement?
14:48No, no, no.
14:48True story, I volunteered.
14:50Wow.
14:51I know, I was so self-deprecating.
14:53You're in the basement, and you could hear everything upstairs.
14:56Yeah, Mary was upstairs, and Mary and Cody, they fall all the time.
14:58I'm just going to tell you that straight up.
14:59There are things you hear that you don't really want to hear.
15:03And I could hear everything.
15:08It's like I always knew where Mary was walking in the house.
15:10I knew what bedroom she was in, anything like that, just because it was super thin.
15:13The ceiling was super thin.
15:14So all the extra noises and things like that, yeah, I heard those too.
15:20There is this idea of a basement wife in a plural family, and it's really sad.
15:27It's unfortunate that it's a thing, but it kind of is a thing.
15:32I think in plural marriage, I think everybody takes a turn, maybe being the basement wife,
15:36I don't know.
15:37Like, I was the basement wife plenty in the early years, you know.
15:42It was never, ever, ever condoned by our church for there ever to be hierarchy.
15:47So if it was happening, it was because people weren't being cool.
15:51You're not going to shut me down anymore.
16:06The cruel irony in Mary saying, I'm not going to let you shut me down anymore is the weirdest thing,
16:16because all three, two exes and Robin, don't believe Mary has ever been silenced, ever.
16:27This is something Cody's done the whole time I've known him,
16:31is just try to talk over me or try to stop me from saying something.
16:35I'm not going to let him do it anymore.
16:37I'm going to finish what I'm saying.
16:39And what I'm saying is, when I'm not treated well, the people closest to me will defend me.
16:46And that's what my friends do.
16:50Okay.
16:52So...
16:52I apologize for my feelings towards your friends.
16:57You don't have to apologize for that, Cody.
17:01You get...
17:01Mary, you know what...
17:02Here's the thing.
17:02You get to have your feelings.
17:06You don't get to tell me them, though.
17:09No, I want to...
17:10No, it's not about my feelings.
17:11It's about...
17:12It's about an apology.
17:15Because, listen...
17:17Apology is so needed here.
17:24Because this is still so toxic.
17:27And I apologize for that.
17:30Do you apologize that you are toxic to me?
17:35Or are you just being general?
17:36Yes, I apologize that I am toxic to you, Mary.
17:39Or was toxic to you.
17:47I mean, what do you want me to apologize for?
17:50I don't want you...
17:50I didn't know what this was about.
17:52I don't...
17:53But I don't feel like you need to apologize for...
17:56Nothing but goodwill.
17:57Okay, it's...
17:59I'm not getting that vibe.
18:02I'm not quite sure what I'm getting, and I'm very guarded by it.
18:05And I don't...
18:06Nothing, nothing but goodwill.
18:07I'm trying to understand if there's anything genuine here.
18:09Mary, I apologize.
18:11I am sorry.
18:13Okay?
18:14Nothing but goodwill.
18:15Okay?
18:18I want to let that...
18:19All that furniture float down the river.
18:23Dude, I didn't even bring this furniture with me.
18:27I'm trying to be funny.
18:32Metaphorically, I get what you're saying, though.
18:34I'm hella hilarious, and that's something you just don't get about me, so whatever.
18:40It's unfortunate.
18:44I'm sorry that I don't find you hilarious.
18:46I apologize for that.
18:47You don't need to apologize for not finding me funny.
18:50The people who find me funny and are in my world and want to be in my world are there,
18:54and they get it.
18:55Cody, I said from the very beginning, sorry, from the beginning of the end.
19:08I know you did, Mary.
19:09That I wanted to be kind.
19:11Yeah.
19:13Yes.
19:14And I feel like I've done a really good job of that.
19:17I feel like...
19:18I'm glad you do, and I apologize that I didn't seem to do a kind.
19:23You've got to stop with the apologize word.
19:25The more you use it, the more it feels insincere.
19:28It triggers you?
19:29No, it doesn't trigger me.
19:30It just validates that it doesn't feel like this is a sincere conversation.
19:38This is a terrible start, and I have to surrender to this.
19:42I cannot react to anything here.
19:44I have to ignore every trigger that I have struggled with for years.
19:50Somewhere along the line here, we've got to turn over a new leaf.
20:01I'm still trying to figure out how genuine it is.
20:05I'm not convinced yet, but I'm open to seeing how it goes.
20:10I'm not trying to make us back together in any way, Mary.
20:13Oh, hell, that's never going to happen.
20:16No, no, I...
20:16We are never, ever, ever getting back together.
20:19I...
20:19This might be the one shot I get, and it's like, and I made a wrong step right off the bat.
20:42And it's almost like, okay, apologize.
20:46It's like, if she complains about anything I have done, if I didn't do it, I'm going to apologize.
21:04Apologize mostly that I said I didn't love you.
21:06I don't think that it was wrong of me to say that.
21:12I want to apologize for how toxic I was during our breakup.
21:17I apologize that I wasn't there for you when we were in Las Vegas.
21:23I apologize that your dark time I wasn't there.
21:28The dark time was because you weren't there.
21:32I apologize for that.
21:34I want to give him the space to do what he intended to do.
21:45I'm still trying to figure out how genuine it is.
21:49I'm not convinced yet, but I'm open to seeing how it goes.
21:54I just, um, it was such a crazy, I know, I'm not trying to make us back together in any way, Mary.
22:05Oh, hell.
22:06But it is.
22:06That's never going to happen.
22:07No, no.
22:08We are never, ever, ever getting back together.
22:10I, I'm not, I'm not saying that.
22:13I, I don't.
22:14I don't know why you said that.
22:16I don't want my nostalgia to be mistaken.
22:19Oh, it's not.
22:21Okay.
22:21It's not.
22:23He, he just wants to make it clear.
22:25And I'm like, oh, it's clear.
22:28Oh, it's clear.
22:29It's clear on my part.
22:30I don't know how you feel.
22:32Like, are you trying to talk yourself into the fact that you still don't want me?
22:35Because I, I'm sorry.
22:37I don't.
22:39But I can tell you this.
22:41We will never, ever get back together.
22:43I've so moved on.
22:46I've so moved on.
22:48Your use of the word apologize feels very extreme and very forced to me.
22:56So I don't, I don't, I can't, I can't tell, like, there's parts of this conversation, Cody, that I feel.
23:03I'm actually very uncomfortable, Mary.
23:05I triggered the minute we got together.
23:07I apologize for that.
23:08I feel like, okay.
23:11Why?
23:11Because I walked into your space?
23:14Cody, I'm not a bad person.
23:15I will stand my boundaries, though.
23:17And I think that's very uncomfortable for you.
23:20No, I, this is an apology.
23:23It is nothing but goodwill.
23:26Is it?
23:28Nothing but goodwill.
23:29Cody, I would love to have a conversation instead of just sit here and listen to you apologize.
23:34You and I can't talk because we will trigger each other no matter what.
23:39So I don't get to say anything or ask questions or.
23:42You can't feel, yes, please feel free.
23:46But you just said I can't.
23:48Well, I mean, like, listen, I'm not here to argue about something.
23:53I don't want to go picking the luggage out of the river.
23:56It's down the river, all of this, our whole experience is.
23:59Okay.
24:00All right.
24:02I'll be fair.
24:03If there's something you want to discuss for the sake of closure?
24:06I don't need closure.
24:09Okay.
24:09I, I think, I think I have just, I, no, I'm, I'm, I don't need any closure.
24:18Okay.
24:18Closure's done.
24:21Okay.
24:21The more of this conversation goes on and the fact that he's saying, no, we can't have a conversation.
24:29It's, it's for him.
24:31It's for sure.
24:32Just all about him.
24:33It's just fine.
24:34If he needs this, he can have it.
24:36There's a point in my life where I had an attitude about a wife who threatened to leave.
24:46And I thought, well, I'm just going to buy her that house down the street, let her live in it for free, pay the child support, and be as generous as I can to her so that I can have access to my children.
25:04That's what you always said you were going to do.
25:06I always had that.
25:10And I'm ashamed that through the divorce processes and stuff like that, I, I forgot who I was.
25:18But my intentions had gotten really out of line with my soul.
25:27You know, before Robin even came in the family, he used to always say that.
25:35And so over the past few years, when I haven't seen him behave in the way that he always said he was going to behave, it's been very disappointing.
25:52Mary was the legal wife, and so she'd have more opportunities to do things with Cody.
26:02So I felt like she was probably more important than that than I was.
26:05But I don't think that was on her.
26:06I really honestly don't.
26:07I would say it's more of the man's fault because it shouldn't be one above the other wife.
26:13And the last thing that I ever wanted was one wife being in charge of another wife.
26:19When you set out for a plural family, what you hope is that everybody is equal and all the wives have equal say.
26:35There are some families where it does not work out that way.
26:38Some families, there's one wife that's more important than all of the other wives.
26:44In our family, there were times where I felt like Mary was more in charge.
26:46Whose fault is that?
26:47All of our faults.
26:48I would say it's more of the man's fault.
26:52Because if one wife says, hey, I'm the first and therefore I'm this way, he should focus on making it more equal to what goes on.
27:01It shouldn't be one above the other wife.
27:03As soon as I married Cody, he was like, there's a lot of things that Mary does that I really, really like.
27:10And, I mean, if you want me to like them, then maybe you should do them like she does them kind of thing.
27:16He liked the way that she cleaned and cooked and dressed and all of these things.
27:21And Mary was the legal wife, and so she'd have more opportunities to do things with Cody because she was the legal wife.
27:26So I felt like she was probably more important than I was.
27:29But I don't think that was on her.
27:30I really honestly don't.
27:32And I think that Cody wasn't even meaning it, to be completely honest.
27:36I don't think he was trying to.
27:37But I do think that it just happened.
27:41In our early years, before Robin came in the family, it definitely felt like that Cody would rotate his attention or affection between me and Janelle and Christine.
27:52Like, and I knew.
27:54Like, it was very obvious that, like, he was definitely rotating.
28:01It wasn't like there was one person who was his favorite for the whole time until Robin came in the family, right?
28:08It was like he rotated.
28:10He took turns.
28:10Even in the culture, the first wife gets a huge, massive wedding.
28:15The next ones are small.
28:17Yeah, we've been to a wedding there, and it's like going to a funeral.
28:21Yes.
28:21It is so weird.
28:23Plural weddings are, like, way too weird.
28:26I knew growing up that I would have to marry a convert because I was literally related to everybody in the church.
28:32I did marry a convert, but I was still related to him, too.
28:36What?
28:36Yeah, I'm related to Cody.
28:37That's not cool.
28:40Third cousins once removed is fully legal.
28:43Fully.
28:43Polygamy is not legal, but I'm third cousins once removed from Cody.
28:48Wow.
28:49Wow.
28:50I know.
28:50There was always this joke about they were cousins, but they are so distant and related, it's ridiculous.
28:55I think in the polygamist families, this kind of stuff happens all the time.
28:58It wasn't the kind of relationship where, like, you saw each other at a family reunion.
29:02Like, it was a very distant relationship, but they would always joke about being cousins.
29:06It just is a small community.
29:09Being a second wife, third wife, or fourth wife, you're never, ever going to be equal to that first wife.
29:16But I'm not going to say all ones.
29:19It depends on what group it is because down in Mexico, I've been to ones that haven't been that way.
29:25There are some families that work just fine.
29:28And even if a wife has a basement, she's not a basement wife.
29:31I want to make it clear that I never was trying to promote a pecking order.
29:38The last thing that I ever wanted in my life was one wife being in charge of another wife.
29:44No way, man.
29:47The problem was, was when I had everybody in the same home, they started to develop a pecking order.
29:53And I'm like, this is bull.
29:55I'm going to work.
29:56You guys work it out.
29:58I'm going to go make sure the mortgage is paid while you guys scrap it out here.
30:01Or go to church so you learn to be charitable.
30:07I like it.
30:08Thanks, baby.
30:08I like all of your ideas.
30:10I'm excited.
30:10And you're no longer a basement wife.
30:12Oh, thank God.
30:17I do not like how this felt.
30:19Yeah, it's, it's, uh, there's some things I don't want to relive, you know?
30:24Might be one of them.
30:25Guess what, baby?
30:26What?
30:26I'm a home housewife now.
30:28Ooh.
30:29You're my home man, baby.
30:31My home man.
30:33Salute.
30:43Cody, I recognize, I recognize more in you than you think that I recognize.
30:49And I know you think I'm a bitch, and I know you think all my friends are bitches, and, uh,
30:53you can keep thinking that if you want.
30:55That, that doesn't matter.
30:56No, it matters to me.
30:58I mean, it doesn't matter.
30:59What I think is what you think of me and my friends doesn't matter, but my point is.
31:04Mary, my opinion of your friends and my opinion of you is none of your business.
31:11And I'm not saying that to be rude.
31:13I'm saying that because it matters, that you do not care.
31:19I don't care.
31:21And that's good.
31:23Mary, you and I will tit for tat the rest of our lives if we just don't let it go.
31:30I want to let it go.
31:34I, I don't want to just.
31:35I, I've let it go.
31:36You just need to stop doing it.
31:39Just be the person, Cody, that you say that you are, that you want to be, and don't do that.
31:45It's not cool.
31:46Okay.
31:47Okay, if it is not my business, don't say it out loud for me to hear it.
31:52Okay.
31:53Okay.
31:53I have plenty of thoughts about you.
31:56I have plenty of opinions.
31:58I have plenty of conversations in my head about the way things have gone down.
32:02I don't want to argue with you.
32:04I'm not arguing.
32:05I'm just, you, I sat there.
32:06There's nothing you say when you're not apologizing.
32:09When I'm apologizing, you don't have an argument.
32:12But now you're arguing.
32:14I'm not arguing.
32:17I'm wanting to say something and you shut me down.
32:20This is how it's been our whole lives.
32:21I don't want to pull that luggage back out of the river.
32:23Okay, you can keep talking about the luggage.
32:25That's just fine.
32:26It's just, all that stuff is in the past.
32:28Okay, but you got to say some stuff.
32:31I apologized is what I did, Mary.
32:33Your apology is welcome if you want to give one.
32:38But I'm apologizing.
32:39No, I'm just asking you, Cody,
32:42to keep your opinions about me and my friends to yourself.
32:45If it's not my business, please keep it to yourself.
32:48Please ask your friends to keep their opinions of me to themselves
32:52because they don't know me.
32:58They were around for many years and you know that.
33:01Not with me.
33:03Just with you.
33:05Nope, not just with me.
33:09I failed here.
33:11Because I was not sticking to my guns
33:13of just being in a benevolent state.
33:16But I'm trying to run from the argument
33:19and yet I'm still stopping to gear up for the next blow.
33:25I'm...
33:26It feels like an impossible task.
33:29I am here today to get the release from Cody.
33:40I haven't been really affiliated with that church for 15 years.
33:44It's kind of nerve-wracking to go in there, but yeah, here we go.
33:48I am here today because I'm going to go in and meet with our church leadership
34:01to get the release from Cody.
34:07I just don't know.
34:08I just don't know what to expect going in.
34:09I haven't been really affiliated with that church for 15 years.
34:13Yeah, I don't know.
34:15It's kind of nerve-wracking to go in there, but yeah, here we go.
34:20For us, it really is just going before the leadership of the church
34:23and making kind of your request.
34:26I'm just going to explain that he and I don't live together anymore
34:28and he's definitely said he wants to live with Robin,
34:32that he's totally in love with her or whatever,
34:35and he's estranged from my children,
34:37and so I feel like it's okay for me to be released.
34:40That's what I'm saying.
34:42Mary's situation was different than mine
34:44because Cody and Mary had not lived together for a very long time, years.
34:52For me, there isn't really anything like that.
34:56Cody and I's relationship was really functioning
34:58until the last three or four years.
35:02Yeah, I just hope that's enough.
35:03I hope that's enough.
35:05We have a history, Cody.
35:19I mean, you piss the hell out of me more ways
35:22than we can even talk about.
35:26And I know it goes both ways.
35:31But I also know that we're never going to see eye to eye
35:34on things because even though we were in the same space
35:38on our experiences,
35:40our experiences are so vastly different.
35:46Do I wish that I had never married you?
35:48Do I wish that we had never lived plural marriage?
35:51Do I wish that we had never moved out of any of our moves, right?
35:57No, I can't.
35:58I can't, and I won't, and I don't wish that
36:00because all those moments made me who I am
36:03and gave me the family that I have,
36:06which I still consider family, okay?
36:08I'm with you there.
36:09My point is I hope you're at a place now
36:13that you can say that you don't regret it
36:18because you have so many kids, Cody.
36:24And I don't want...
36:25Let's not talk about the kids.
36:26That's verboten.
36:30That's what?
36:31Verboten.
36:32I don't know what these big words that you're using.
36:34Verboten, it means it's not allowed
36:36because it's a whole stream of bull****
36:38and I don't want to talk about it.
36:41I'm working out my relationship with my children.
36:44Okay.
36:49I understand that everybody changes.
36:51There's no way I could ever expect me
36:53to be the same person I was 30 years ago
36:56or him to be the same person he was 30 years ago,
37:00but I would expect him to get better and be better.
37:05And I have not seen him be better
37:08in some of these ways that he's been handling the divorces,
37:14the property, his relationship with his children.
37:18I have not seen improvement there.
37:23And that makes me sad.
37:26It makes me really sad.
37:30This...
37:31I want you to feel like this is about you,
37:35but it's really about me and God.
37:37I can tell it's about you.
37:38No, it's about me and God.
37:40Oh, well, okay.
37:41Him too.
37:41That's great.
37:42But I can tell.
37:43I mean, the almighty requires...
37:45I don't need it to be about me.
37:47I don't need it to be about me.
37:51Thank you for...
37:54an absolutely fascinating
37:56and wonderful life experience that we shared.
38:01It was.
38:02It was very fascinating.
38:05And there was definitely wonderful moments.
38:12Okay.
38:13I had this realization a while ago
38:17that I was trying so hard to understand him.
38:23And I finally came to this realization of,
38:27I don't have to.
38:30And I'm glad that I don't understand it.
38:33I'm happy that I understand me
38:35and what I'm doing in my life.
38:38That's all that matters.
38:40I had to run the restroom really bad, so...
38:43Okay, well, you better run off.
38:44I'm going to say goodbye.
38:46All right.
38:46Well, thank you.
38:47I appreciate it.
38:49Most people, I mean most,
38:52divorce and move on.
38:55I don't know what kind of relationship
38:57I have with my ex-wives.
39:00I've gone through three divorces
39:02while being married to one woman
39:04who was there standing to support me.
39:06There's one woman in my life.
39:08And these three are ex-wives.
39:12At best, to only be friends.
39:16Thanks for meeting me.
39:17Now we can have a hug.
39:18You sure?
39:19Yes.
39:20Thank you, Mary.
39:21Thank you for the grace
39:23and the kind understanding.
39:26Well, thank you for the chat
39:29and the apologies.
39:30I appreciate it.
39:31You're welcome.
39:32I'm actually going to run
39:34because now that I stood up,
39:35I have to...
39:35I hope it doesn't leak.
39:38I'm not that old.
39:40I beg to differ.
39:42I know your birthday.
39:46Well, from now on,
39:47from here out,
39:49like I hope the swords are down.
39:51If we can move forward in the future,
39:54just making sure that we are very kind,
39:57we might be able to remain
39:58in good places with each other.
40:00I'm not sure at this point,
40:07you know,
40:08what this all means.
40:10There's been a lot
40:11throughout this whole divorce process,
40:14throughout the property process,
40:15things that I've discovered since then.
40:18But it doesn't affect me.
40:22I'm not listening to what he says
40:24and his opinions
40:25and his apologies
40:25and his thoughts
40:26and letting it affect me.
40:28I don't do that anymore.
40:41Next time on Sister Wives.
40:43I haven't been very fair with you.
40:46Taking accountability for his part
40:49gave him some peace.
40:50I love the family that we have
40:54and I would do it all again.
40:57I don't regret anything
40:58in the last 30 years.
40:59Are you dating?
41:01I've dated.
41:02Dated around, you know.
41:06Ron and I definitely have a connection.
41:10This is beautiful.
41:11There's a reason
41:13why we're in each other's lives.
41:15what that reason is,
41:17you know, remains to be seen.
41:19I've always wanted to do this.
41:20This is going to be fun.
41:21Woo!
41:22Woo!
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