00:00It's been three years since the Qatar corruption scandal first rocked the European Parliament.
00:05Explosive allegations and a spectacular police operation.
00:10At the time, Belgian authorities claimed that their countries from Qatar to Morocco
00:14had paid hundreds of thousands of euros to sway and influence decision-making
00:20at the core of European democracy.
00:23The face of the scandal, Eva Kiley, young, glamorous,
00:26and a former vice president of the European Parliament,
00:30three years later, she tells Euronews she wants to see justice for herself.
00:35The Belgian's prosecutor's office did not respond to a request for comment made by Euronews.
00:40Well, Eva Kiley, thank you so much for joining us on Euronews for this interview.
00:46It's been three years. You say for you it's been three very long years.
00:50And now you want to go public and you want to put it all out in the open
00:54and you say you claim and you want justice.
00:58That's a good question. I think justice should come based on facts.
01:06And now we have enough facts to understand that this was a baseless case.
01:11Optics were used for justice.
01:14And after three years, I think we have now the clarity to see what actually happened.
01:18OK, so what actually happened?
01:21Because, of course, our viewers remember the scandal.
01:25They remember the investigation.
01:27And they remember that Belgian authorities claimed that third countries from Qatar to Morocco
01:32paid cash to influence decision making and to sway you, essentially.
01:37So, again, what actually happened?
01:40And when you say you want to see justice, is this justice from the Belgian authorities that you're seeking?
01:47So, let's establish the facts.
01:50There were evidence from an investigation of the secret services of Belgium.
01:56And on the wiretops, we can see that there were private funds, not public, private funds
02:02for the president of an NGO, Panzeri, that he used his assistance.
02:08He asked them to help him receive it until he declared it.
02:11This is corroborated by wiretops, by notes and by testimonies until coercion methods happened
02:19and things started to change.
02:21And, of course, that refers to the moment that, well, you went very public because there was a picture
02:29that was printed, it went viral, it went global, there was a piece of luggage.
02:35The Belgian federal police said that that was evidence of cash that was stored
02:41in your property and this luggage was full of cash.
02:45So, we've seen the picture.
02:47Three years later, you say that this is now set up.
02:50So, tell us, then, what was really in that luggage?
02:53Well, we have, again, we have the evidence and the wiretops.
02:57So, it's about facts, not perception, not optics.
03:01These were private funds that we hear on the wiretops that he wanted to receive it for his work.
03:07The photos were staged as illegal, as illegal funds, to create presumption of guilt.
03:14And now we have more evidence that the prosecutor of Belgium pre-orchestrated not just the leaks,
03:22but the story.
03:23So, the target was chosen, the script was pre-written, and the optics replaced the evidence.
03:31Look, that's a very important point, and I want to focus on the idea of the leaks.
03:35Because leaks are, they happen, they are somewhat normal for things to leak in an investigation to the press.
03:43What is different, however, is to leak information to incriminate a person without the full evidence.
03:50So, my question is, where are you framed?
03:53Well, first, we were arrested, accused, punished by detention, based on a hypothesis, also the facts,
04:02if the facts matter, were clear that they were not related to corruption.
04:07And now we have the messages between the prosecutor, journalists, and the police,
04:13preparing articles before the investigation even started,
04:17deciding the titles, and then trying to fit everything with twisted leaks on the press,
04:23trying to put coercive methods and intimidation to fit the whole case into the headlines.
04:32This is not leaks, this is pre-orchestration, it's a narrative that was written instead of evidence.
04:38But, if all of this was set up, and you say this was orchestration,
04:42and leaks were put out to incriminate you on purpose, what was the motivation?
04:48This is a question that many of our viewers wonder, that we still wonder about.
04:54What was the motivation? Why you in particular?
04:57Well, this is a very good question to ask, and this would require a trial to get the truth out.
05:03What I can tell you is that there was a public trial, there was a popularity contest, intimidation.
05:09And then they used my daughter and other families to change testimonies and make accusations,
05:14while the law is not there.
05:17So, the violation of the secrecy and the violation of presumption of innocence is not to protect the guilty,
05:23it is to protect the innocent from public courts and for manipulation by media.
05:30So, facts matter, and the justice was reversed in this case.
05:34I can just tell you that today, we have a Belgian gate, where the judge resigned, the prosecutor resigned,
05:42the investigator admitted that they were based the case on lies, so it was lies of coercion,
05:50and the anti-corruption director is now criminally charged.
05:54Again, these were serious allegations, especially those aimed at the Belgian authorities.
05:57You say this is a Belgian gate. What does that mean? What does that mean specifically?
06:04Well, that means that it's not safe for diplomacy or democracy, when based on a hypothesis,
06:09against the evidence, people's lives are destroyed, families are used, even babies,
06:17and then we have everybody resigning. We have the fact, it's not my opinion,
06:21what I'm telling you, it's based on facts. So, I think when you stage photos, when you write the script
06:29before the case opens, everybody can understand that being a politician in the European Union,
06:36it seems that you can be targeted by doing your work, because I was having an official mandate
06:43documented by the President of the Parliament and by Borrell, the High Representative of the Commission,
06:50to build bridges with the Gulf countries.
06:52Okay, but I want to go back to the idea of the Belgian gate, because what you say and what you allude
06:58is that, ultimately, this is a country where authorities frame people, where they plant evidence,
07:07where they use methods that are borderline on the legality. Would you say that Belgium is,
07:16in a way, operating like a police state? Is that what you're saying?
07:19Well, we saw what happened with Mogherini. He was accused and arrested before there were evidence,
07:26and now we have a judge, Anzio, who opened a criminal case against the anti-corruption director,
07:33and is trying to establish what actually really happened against the methods of the Belgians.
07:39This happened in Belgium. Italy also dismissed the case for corruption and opened a criminal
07:45investigation against the witness protected by Belgium for lying. So I can just talk with facts,
07:53and everybody can make their own conclusions. I don't need to say what it was, but I can tell you what
07:58are the facts. And still you say what happened was, three years ago, the European Parliament, just to give you an example,
08:08they decided to make you persona non grata. You were stripped of your job as vice president of the European
08:17Parliament. Your immunity also was stripped. And at the time, the head of the European Parliament said that she was going to
08:26clean up the institution and you became the sort of persona non grata in the institution. Have you had any contact
08:34with the head of the European Parliament since? And what do you make of that reaction?
08:39Of course. And I asked for a public hearing. I asked for any hearing to present the evidence, and it was denied.
08:47I even asked a public court hearing to present all the facts. Whoever wants transparency, if they are honest,
08:55they wouldn't deny a public hearing. And she denied the public hearing. The prosecutor denied the public
09:00hearing. Whoever denies definitely is not an innocent one. Three years later, do you feel betrayed by the
09:06president of the parliament, by Roberta Metzola, and your own colleagues in the parliament?
09:10Well, I think personally, I'm expecting justice to be to be given through presenting all the elements
09:22at court and to have a fair process. The process was totally illegal. So now I'm waiting to understand
09:28why they use such methods. But it's not personal for me, the apology. It's to the citizens for losing
09:36trust to the system, because it was presented as corruption. And we see that in the end, it was
09:42private funds for actually an NGO that was doing a good mission, helping people in Afghanistan,
09:47in Sudan. So we saw how you can reverse justice for political ambition, for geopolitical games,
09:55and people become victims of this. Obviously, we saw spectacular rage when it comes to
10:02Federica Mogherini. She's a former representative for the European
10:06Union. Were you surprised in any way to see another round of arrests like this?
10:12Again, punished without evidence, optics replaced justice, and public courts decide about somebody,
10:20if he's innocent or not, before fact, only with the titles. So innocence is destroyed in like a
10:26popularity contest, because then the parliament and everybody, they try to side with whatever is
10:33convenient. So it's easy to attack the South, it's easy to attack South countries, Arab countries,
10:39and create a narrative and a presumption that is the opposite of what the facts have been saying.
10:46So to me, it's very worrying for democracy. And the reason I'm speaking out,
10:52even though it causes trouble to me and my family, and even to my case is because this should not happen
11:00to anyone. And politicians should not be afraid to work on the European institutions, they should not
11:09feel that the system can target and attack anyone. So I do hope that this would be like a lesson. And what
11:17happened to Mogherini recently, our more ready today, selective political prosecution, this would
11:23stop happening after this case is over. Well, thank you very much for joining us, Eva Kaili. And in the
11:32end, it will be the facts and the evidence that will speak. This case is still not set for trial, but
11:38there's a question as to whether it will make it to trial. But at some point, if it does, of course,
11:42the justice and the law is based on facts. And ultimately, it will be the facts that will speak
11:47for both sides. Thank you very much. Thank you, Maria, so much.
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