In a heated debate on India Today, Bangladeshi journalist Muktadir Rashid warns that the ongoing instability in Bangladesh poses a grave geopolitical risk, stating, 'It will not be a Pakistan, but it will be an Ukraine for South Asia, that you should be worried about.' The discussion, hosted by Gaurav Sawant, addresses the recent arson attacks on 'Prothom Alo' and 'The Daily Star' offices in Dhaka. Veteran journalist Subir Bhaumik criticises the interim government, alleging that Chief Adviser Muhammad Yunus is seeking the presidency to gain immunity from prosecution. Lt Gen KJS Dhillon (Retd) highlights the increasing visibility of Pakistan's ISI in Bangladesh, cautioning that any anti-India activities from Bangladeshi soil will have severe consequences. The panel explores the rising radicalism and the targeting of minorities in the region.
00:00Muttadir, is there an apprehension that Bangladesh could become the next Pakistan or worse and which will be very bad for your country, sir?
00:12No, it will not be Pakistan, but it will be Ukraine for South Asia.
00:18That you should be worried about.
00:19And I am also worried about this because some international players are now playing in Bangladesh.
00:24Then they want Jamaat to be in power for future.
00:27And there will be huge trouble in the days ahead.
00:30So that's what we are worried.
00:32But that is not a concern that there will be another Pakistan.
00:35Because Bangladeshi people don't like that kind of relation anymore.
00:39Sir, I have been hearing this since the day Sheikh Hasina was ousted.
00:43But each day, the news is even worse than the previous day.
00:47Initially, temples were being targeted.
00:50Then churches were being targeted.
00:52Minorities were being targeted.
00:53We were seeing videos of minorities being asked to leave their jobs, whether it's in the police or in education.
01:00Sir, that's exactly how radical Islamists behave.
01:03Even in Pakistan, burn down schools, target religious institutions, target minorities, and then radical Islamists rule.
01:10Isn't that what is happening today, sir?
01:11Not exactly what you are saying, but sometimes some incidents are taking place.
01:19But we think that every time it happens when there is a major party, when they fall off and their prime minister have to leave.
01:28But the thing is, I believe, there are certain people inside Dr. Yunus' government, they are supporting Jamaican, their religious version everywhere, so that there would be a fear that people, you must go, you have to do.
01:44Even many secular people are not, they can't work nowadays.
01:49Many journalists who are very outspoken, they are now self-centered.
01:54So, this is happening, that is fact.
01:57But the way, the options you have of minority torture, I don't believe in that.
02:02Sir, I just saw a Hindu man being lynched.
02:04Those videos are horrifying, Shubir.
02:07Shubir Bhamek, when you look at that video, a man is stripped because he's a Hindu.
02:13He's beaten up because he's Hindu.
02:15He's hung from a tree because he's Hindu.
02:18And then he's burnt.
02:20And there are hundreds of people who are there.
02:22Not one, two, three, hundreds who are filming it.
02:26Not one helping him.
02:27Shubir Bhamek, if this isn't what rising radicalism is, Shubir Bhamek, what else is?
02:32Well, these things are worse have happened.
02:37And this has not just happened to Hindus.
02:39Let me make a point of this.
02:40You know, women have been raped because somebody was a wife of an ex-Hommelic leader who has fled the country, you know, after the fall of Sheikh Hasina's government.
02:50And that rape scene was filmed and then circulated.
02:54So, as a Bengali, I feel ashamed that somebody who speaks my language and shares my common culture could be doing these kind of things.
03:06It's not just that this has happened to the Hindus.
03:08What I'm trying to insist on is that this kind of sustained, state-sponsored brutality, because none of these people are ever arrested.
03:17Yunus, you know, speaks very nicely.
03:20He appeals to the Western media.
03:22Nobel laureate and all that nonsense that goes with his persona.
03:29But on ground, look at this.
03:31He has been, he has released, he has given indemnity to all these troublemakers.
03:36He has released scores of hard-line East-Ramish extremists who were convicted.
03:42People like Jashimuddin Rahmani, the chief of Ansarullah Bangla team.
03:46Now, let's not, you know,
03:47There is no scope for covering up.
03:53You know, the thing here is that Yunus and Jamaat-Islami and these Islamists are made for each other today.
04:01Yunus wants to become the president.
04:03Wait, wait, Gaurab, let me finish.
04:05Yunus, this is the game plan.
04:07Yunus wants to be the president because he wants immunity from prosecution for the many donambari stuff that he has been doing.
04:15You know, money laundering, etc., etc., the list is long.
04:19He wants to be president for getting immunity from prosecution and to get control of the armed forces.
04:25The Jamaat wants Yunus because he will be a soft face for a government ofullah.
04:31Let me bring an ambassador's secret quickly into this conversation because I really want to understand,
04:36is the situation likely to become worse, hopefully, before it gets better?
04:41No, I think the situation is getting very bad.
04:45But the only answer, the only solution to the situation is to have free, fair and inclusive elections.
04:51But that's not possible?
04:53No, it is possible.
04:54The Iwami League is banned?
04:55No, actually, Mohamed Yunus himself gave an interview in September in New York.
05:00And when he was asked by the interviewer, why have you banned the Iwami League?
05:03He said, I haven't banned the Iwami League.
05:04I have only banned the activities of the Iwami League.
05:06And when the interviewer asked him that can they participate in the elections, he said the election commission will decide.
05:12So this is just a fake cover to ban the Iwami League because the Jamaat-e-Islami is completely unhappy that the popularity is not coming to them.
05:22The NCP is unhappy the popularity is not coming to them.
05:24So to make sure that they are declared victors, they have banned the Iwami League and the Jatya Party and others.
05:29And India has been insisting strongly there must be inclusive elections.
05:33Otherwise, they will not be credible.
05:34And we have to continue to insist on that because if there are inclusive elections, anybody can get elected.
05:40And I can tell you one of the reasons why Bratam Halu was burnt, because in a national opinion survey,
05:45they declared that 70 percent of the people of Bangladesh want Iwami League to participate in the elections.
05:51It's not that they want to vote for them, but they want Iwami League to participate in the elections so that they have democratic, inclusive elections.
05:58And that is what angered these Islamists, the radicals, all that.
06:03That's why they attacked them.
06:04So we must insist on inclusive elections.
06:06This present situation cannot continue.
06:08And if there are inclusive elections, everything will return to normal.
06:11Okay.
06:12Muktadir, before I bring in General Dilan, is there also your appreciation?
06:17Because organizations like Prathamalo and Daily Star were not towing the line of the Jamaat, they were burnt down.
06:26And I still don't understand why would Chaya not be taken down?
06:30Why would a cultural center be destroyed?
06:32This is the hate set has been propagated by one of the, that is the propagated, the stuff has been propagated by one fringe-based video blogger.
06:49He has been asking people to target those secular institutions, especially Udici and Chaya not.
06:57And that is done.
06:58And that is very unfortunate.
07:01I would say very unfortunate because those who want to go there, they will go.
07:05There is a school for the kids.
07:07That's in Nalanda.
07:09That has also been targeted.
07:10So this is very ridiculous and we don't support it, but that has been propagated.
07:19One section of this government is by now supporting that person for many months, I would say, so that they can do, their followers can do whatever they want.
07:34And West security is very understated because of these people, because they are targeting our activities, they are targeting our, any kind of comments on social media or whatsoever.
07:47So we are also under serious pressure.
07:50And of course, the challenge we have currently is more violence is terrible.
07:57And Dr. Yunus government is not looking at this, but on the other hand, we must think about the whole process of how the election will be held.
08:10So we have to see the whole picture of it.
08:13No, but I want to understand from you, is the Awami League in a position to contest these elections?
08:18Is the Awami League going to contest these elections in February?
08:21If this government allows, they can, they have the full support of the people, those who they have supported, they can contest this election.
08:35They can contest the election, even if they are in jail.
08:38Even, not under this government, probably because it is highly backed by Jama'at.
08:43But their possibility, if the Awami League is given chance, they can contest for the next election, whenever it takes place.
08:50Because they are supposed to be still in Bangladesh.
08:53People of the, I would say, the very thin section of their leader has been fledged.
08:58But even they are in Doona, even they are not prosecuted or convicted.
09:02They can contest from anywhere.
09:04And they will win in many cases.
09:07Okay, give me a moment.
09:09Shubir Bhamek wanted to come in, but I think we have just lost that connection with him.
09:12But General Dhillon, we see a lot of activity, not just of Pakistan's ISI, openly.
09:18They are not even hiding it anymore.
09:19Their generals in uniform, Pakistan army officers, they are visiting Bangladesh extensively.
09:25There are reports of Lashkar-e-Taiba ideologues and terrorists indoctrinate, those who indoctrinate.
09:32They are visiting Bangladesh.
09:34So, do you expect trouble along the India-Bangladesh border or even deeper inside India in the run-up to elections in Bangladesh?
09:40As I said earlier, Bangladesh is India locked.
09:48Any trouble they want to create against India from within the Bangladeshi soil is going to be very, very bad for them.
09:55Now, having said that, this point which came up during the event made by the journalists from Bangladesh, that it is not the government which is doing it.
10:05This is not the government.
10:07It is not a popularly elected government.
10:09It is an imposed ruler.
10:11And they are very clearly looking away from all that were in the country.
10:17And let me make one thing very clear to people who are 50 years and below, who have not seen 1971.
10:241971 happened.
10:26The liberation of Bangladesh happened because Punjabi-Pakistani-Muslimans wanted to impose Punjabi onto them and Urdu onto them.
10:33And let me again tell the young boys of Bangladesh, International Language Day, the World Language Day is celebrated when the Bangladeshi people rose against Punjabi-Pakistani-Muslimans in favor of Bangla language.
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