- il y a 6 semaines
Migration en Europe : sécurité ou solidarité ? Les députés européens s'affrontent sur le ring
Cette semaine, The Ring se penche sur le débat sur l'immigration en Europe, alors que l'UE s'oriente vers un durcissement des règles d'expulsion et explore des "centres de retour" controversés pour les demandeurs d'asile déboutés en dehors de l'Union.
LIRE L’ARTICLE : http://fr.euronews.com/2025/12/18/migration-en-europe-securite-ou-solidarite-les-deputes-europeens-saffrontent-sur-le-ring
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Cette semaine, The Ring se penche sur le débat sur l'immigration en Europe, alors que l'UE s'oriente vers un durcissement des règles d'expulsion et explore des "centres de retour" controversés pour les demandeurs d'asile déboutés en dehors de l'Union.
LIRE L’ARTICLE : http://fr.euronews.com/2025/12/18/migration-en-europe-securite-ou-solidarite-les-deputes-europeens-saffrontent-sur-le-ring
Abonnez-vous à notre chaine. Euronews est disponible sur Dailymotion en 12 langues
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00:00Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
00:30Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
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06:05background in your own home town of Turku a failed asylum seeker murdered
06:13citizens of Finland and you know why is still allowed to be in Finland because
06:20of rules that you defend that makes it impossible to deport convicted rapists
06:25and terrorists to their home countries why do you defend these and you know in
06:31my hometown of Turku where there was this terrible terrorist accident a knife
06:35attack do you know who were the persons to intervene in that situation they were
06:40also asylum seekers in my hometown nobody bought into this rhetoric of the extreme
06:47right because they also saw the people who were courageous enough to intervene
06:51in that situation to try and protect the innocent civilians that were became
06:56victims of this knife attack yes there are criminals some of them have a migrant
07:00background yes we need to be serious when we talk about fighting terrorism and
07:04organized crime but we cannot make a creative picture where we try and
07:10present all migrants or all asylum seekers as criminals because that is not true
07:14that does not reflect reality that did not reflect the reality in my hometown of
07:19Turku and it does not reflect the reality where Europeans live I want to give you
07:22right reply but to play devil's advocate some would argue there would have been no
07:26attack and therefore no need to intervene and that person who did not have a
07:29legal permit to be in Europe had not been there at that time that's the core of
07:33the issue is it possible to create a society with absolutely no migration it is
07:41not that kind of solutions to the societal problems I mean one problem with the far
07:46right is that they want to solve every societal problem with saying that as long
07:51as we restrict migration this will go away unemployment let's restrict migration terrorism
07:57let's restrict or crime let's restrict migration learning outcomes going down let's restrict migration
08:04but you do not actually present any solutions to the societal problems at hand what are your
08:10solutions to fight the specific topic of crime or terrorism or the specific topic of unemployment or the
08:18specific topic of learning outcomes we it's not enough to just say that you want closed borders
08:24the borders will never be completely closed there will still be criminals we will still have a
08:29learning outcomes that go down we will still have problems with unemployment so we need to be able to
08:34address these societal problems for what they are with real political solutions to them well I would invite
08:41you to read the statistics from Sweden showing that the immigration has led to an increase of crime it's not
08:47me saying that it's the crime prevention agency in Sweden so the statistics is there you just have to
08:56bother to to have a look at it also when it comes to the the issue of putting everyone in the same basket no
09:06that's not the case we differ between those who build cars who contribute and those who burn cars and the question is
09:13here Leander John why do you say no to the deportation of criminal foreigners because that's what you do if
09:22there's a slight theoretical risk for them why don't you want to send them home firstly we've actually had a lot of
09:30experts from Sweden coming to Finland saying do not repeat the mistakes we have done in Sweden when it comes for example segregation
09:38do not create societies where you have working-class families living in separate areas without any kind of
09:46perspective of social mobility of being able to create the life that they want for themselves when it comes to
09:53deportation of criminals my party has not said no it is possible to deport offenders that have committed
10:01serious crimes as long as the principle of non reformer is respected so that is the only kind of limit
10:09i would say legally to when it's not possible to do it and that of course i think we both agree we need
10:16to respect but we have not said a categorical no to deportations of uh of uh criminals we have to uh
10:22now move on in the show it's called the ring so let's take gloves off
10:30now of course as we always say it is time for our viewers to get a real taste of the european
10:35parliament and what it looks like from within you both obviously are elected to protect your
10:40constituents and also ask each other tough questions and bring up tough issues so now i will
10:45give you the floor so you can ask each other questions and i know i cut you off so mr viners i will
10:50give you the first question you have the floor paris cancelled its new year's eve uh celebrations
10:57the christmas market here in strassburg looks like uh it's uh under siege a fortress families are afraid
11:06to go out is that a price worth paying for europeans in order to preserve liberal asylum policies that is
11:13a price that we are paying for the rise of extremism in europe and we see it both there is islamist
11:19extremism there is a far right extremism extremism we have seen examples of terrorism attacks of both
11:27of these and i do honestly think that if we engage in this kind of debate that the extreme and the far
11:34right is doing where they kind of put this shadow of doubt on every single member of our societies that
11:42have a background from somewhere else whose family has a background from somewhere else we do not actually
11:48fight the root causes of extremism we make it worse so i think we should let the police do its work
11:55when it comes to combating terrorism and crime and our responsibility as decision makers and policy
12:02makers is to make sure that we do not create more division in our societies but less and now of course it's
12:09your turn for a question so uh charlie weimers um i'm interested to know if you would say that
12:17morocco egypt and tunisia are safe countries for example for people belonging to the lgbt community
12:27or for journalists or political dissidents these are safe countries they're not at war
12:33they have um no situation in which a a major persecution is ongoing so we should be able
12:41to send back migrants coming from there because those migrants are generally not fleeing for their
12:46lives so you're saying it's not an ideal place perhaps for your lifestyle but if you do not have
12:53the right to be legal in europe you should go back to morocco that's what i'm saying and this has been
12:58the problem for many years that uh people have been coming to europe not because they fled a war
13:05but uh because they looked for a better life they came from safe countries of origin but prosecution
13:11may not be a war she's talking about the lgbtq plus community that you don't have to be a war to
13:16feel prosecuted i understand that it's not optimal uh for an lgbtq person to to be in morocco
13:23uh but we cannot be the destination of all people living under non-western regimes that's not how it
13:32can work and we also have the situation where people pass through safe countries on their way to
13:38countries such as germany finland sweden and that can't stand that's why it's so important what the
13:45commission has now proposed and what we're uh dealing with now in the parliament to establish
13:51these safe countries of origin so you're saying it's not ideal but it's also not europe's problem
13:56yes and i think there is a huge contradiction here when it comes to the rhetoric of the extreme
14:01and the far right because on the one hand you're kind of saying that everybody you know that these
14:05countries these cultures that these people that are coming here are dangerous and they do not respect
14:10i mean this is your rhetoric this is how you talk not me and they do not respect the rules of our
14:16societies they do not respect women's rights for example or the rights of lgbtq community
14:21but then when it comes to eu legislation you're all of a sudden saying that yes it's completely
14:25safe for people who belong to the lgbtq community or for journalists political dissidents young women
14:31to go back to these countries no need to be very specific when it comes to their asylum claims
14:36and this is also actually contradictory to what the european parliament itself has said that has adopted
14:41several resolutions with uh concerning the human rights abuses and problems in for example uh egypt and
14:48tunisia you talk about violence and some of the violence that some women may face if they have
14:52to go back to countries that you say are not safe some argue however women in europe and i'm sure you
14:58would agree with this have become less safe as a result of uncontrolled illegal migration and this is
15:03what do you respond to that is exactly the contradiction of their rhetoric i mean i have always said
15:09that we have patriarchal structures uh everywhere so it's a pain i don't know any society that is free
15:15unfortunately is free from violence against women that are free from patriarchal structures
15:21but the foreign extreme right try to present it as this is something that is coming to europe from
15:25elsewhere and now at the same time migration is a patriarchy that's a problem i would say so because
15:30do you know any society that is free of those problems i do not unfortunately i mean there are
15:35countries and regimes such as the taliban regime where it's of course much much worse but i also come
15:42from a country with very high numbers when it comes to violence against women and domestic violence
15:47so trying to say that this is a problem only some places uh is not correct okay well uh just for a
15:54second let's stop here because i want to bring in now a new voice
15:58and now in reaction to the european council's decision to reform the eu migration pact which
16:07you alluded to and introduces now a solidarity pool the hungarian prime minister victor orban said on
16:13social media that quote the latest brazilian decision requires that from next july hungary must
16:21either take migrants in from other european countries or pay for them i want to make it absolutely
16:27clear and that's a quote for once and for all that as long as hungary has a national government we will
16:33not implement this outrageous decision now my question to you is does victor orban have a point
16:41yeah well sweden is among those countries supposed to take the most migrants through this solidarity
16:48mechanism and i wonder has the commission even looked at how many migrants sweden has taken
16:55during the last decades no they have not they have not taken that into account so instead we will have
17:02to pay in to brussels a fee for not receiving forced migration upon sweden i think that's a principle in
17:11breach with subsidiarity that's why i voted against that principle and that's why i claim that it's
17:17spanish the greeks they'll say we need help and that means either well that should be managed
17:22how do you respond to that that should be managed through the ordinary eu budget they should get
17:28help they should get eu financing for border barriers which they are not being provided with
17:34at the moment which my opponent is against so that we could offer but not by implementing a system in
17:42which sweden is supposed to accept migrants by dictate from brussels and on this point have either you
17:49take a quote of people or you pay to facilitate obviously financial assistance some would argue
17:55the issue is that that's not really how it works the core problem is the number of arrivals to deal
18:00with it you need to bring down that migration this migration pact will not work in real life will it
18:06i think it depends very much on what other types of policies and actions they will do in terms of
18:11migration like how we succeed in terms with legal pathways for example as long as there are no legal
18:17pathways we will continue to see irregular flows of migrants uh doing this very dangerous trips over
18:23the mediterranean and i sincerely hope that the sweden will not walk down the path of hungary where you
18:29openly disobey binding eu law so i think that this solidarity mechanism is a good part of this asylum
18:37and migration policy pact that was decided last mandate because at the moment the biggest pressure
18:44uh of course is directed at these countries in the southern part of europe just because of their
18:49geographical location but they don't want the money they want people out they say we don't want
18:54people in they have a point there i don't think it's fair that they introduced this possibility of
18:58buying yourself out of solidarity as part of this solidarity mechanism so i think it would be much
19:03better actually if you would then um require countries to actually accept migrants and hopefully
19:09also that the relocation can be done on a voluntary basis so except migrants from the point of view
19:14of the migrants that will lead to a massive crisis of legitimacy brussels forcing migrants upon unwilling
19:21member states can you imagine the popular reaction well i think that parties like mine would thrive so so uh
19:28uh but it's also i mean it is also brussels that has decided to use these rules about you having to apply
19:35for asylum in the first country that you are right to and this is what has created the pressure on
19:40southern europe so whether we like it or not this is a european question okay let's take a short break
19:46we've got to take a short break here on the ring please however stay with us we'll be back very soon
19:51with more political punch
19:53welcome back to the ring euro news's new weekly show i'm joined by meps charlie weimers and lee anderson
20:09and the idea here is to bring the european parliament's debate to your couch so what about
20:15you that is the question what do you think are the most important issues that the eu is facing
20:21when asked about the most important issues facing the european union in a poll responders most
20:27frequently cited the war in ukraine and immigration followed as the second most significant concern
20:34the international situation more broadly was mentioned by 19 of the responders while security
20:40and defense appeared highlighted by 18 percent immigration of course western europe is living with
20:47the consequences of of a liberal migration policy and we need to deal with that now we need to
20:55fix the problems that other politicians have caused through a very reckless policy in which
21:02they let in a whole lot of people who never really had asylum reasons is europe changing too much and
21:09when you hear europe should stay europe does that mean christian and white well uh i mean for instance my
21:16party is among the biggest uh among among uh people with an immigrant background in sweden so it has
21:24nothing with skin color to do it has uh with uh a wish to to have our countries remained what it used to be when
21:33people came here i do not think that social cohesion is based on what religion or ethnicity you share i think
21:40social cohesion is something absolutely that you can create in societies with well-functioning services
21:46to trust to building this culture of trust to having well-functioning services and a big concern that we
21:52have now when we talk about these new migration policies from the eu side is that in many parts of
21:58these europe is taking steps away from a human rights-based policy way of making policies how is
22:06the violation of international law was not able to do her albania plan because it was contrary to eu law
22:15uh it was also kind of a successful to the extent that everyone wants to replicate it was also
22:20exactly but it doesn't it doesn't take away the fundamental problems legally so it was contrary to eu
22:25law it's contrary to some human rights law as well and now they are trying to change eu law to make it legal
22:33we've got to move on however i want to ask you a final question the italian prime minister she made
22:37a bet which said okay i know this will end up in court but it is still worth the risk because of the
22:42signal that it will send is that something that you agree sometimes playing around with the law
22:47politically may be useful she did the right thing and look what happens now uh the the eu is moving
22:54forward with the concept of even at the risk well we're we're making it possible now for individual
23:01member states to to make agreements with third countries to establish return there's a possibility
23:07that it may be illegal well it will be legal when when we have voted so so uh it's on its way and even
23:15if the european parliament will accept these laws that means a big step away from respecting human rights
23:22obligations and human rights safeguards the eu member states will still be bound by international human
23:27rights treaties so there will still be the issue of the european convention on human rights for example
23:32that will still mean that countries have a legal responsibility for the people that seek asylum
23:38so i do not think that the legal question will be dealt with at the point where the european parliament
23:44accept these laws i do think that there will still be big legal issues well leander keeps repeating
23:50non-refoulement and that in practice leander means that you don't want to deport a convicted rapist
23:58or terrorist if there's a slight theoretical chance of mistreatment in the country of origin my uh my
24:05policy is very simple if you rape someone if you murder someone you go home here you're right someone you
24:11gotta go as i said it is possible to deport convicted criminals that is not the case but the rate is very
24:17low and it's not a theoretical i mean i really recommend to charlie weimers also to um read some
24:23of the court cases from the european court of human rights uh especially on how they also actually have
24:28more liberal uh more liberal line on these cases than they did before for me the most important thing
24:34is that europe stays true to the fundamental values of europe it is dangerous that in this time with
24:40rising extreme right forces we see orban we see putin we see all of these authoritarian leaders
24:46who do not respect international law that do not respect human rights law we are hearing the same
24:53voices in europe saying we should not we should just disregard what the human rights treatise said
24:59and forget about these fundamental principles that is dangerous for all of us we continue now into our
25:04fifth and final round so hopefully you're ready
25:11i'm going to ask you a set of questions and of course the answer i know it's difficult at times but it
25:16must be a yes or no answer so let's see if we manage to the first question do return hubs outside of
25:22the european union undermine the right to seek asylum no because it's about returns of failed asylum seekers
25:31yes when you look at return hubs paid by the eu yes or no that's taxpayer money
25:38yes potentially no it is it will be an extremely expensive and ineffective system
25:44human rights laws are they becoming or preventing the european union from protecting its own borders
25:51yes it's stopping the eu from protecting its own citizens so human rights have become a problem yes or no
25:57uh human rights international legislation has become a problem
26:01no states have the right to protect their own borders under international law i think that is
26:06completely clear and nobody has contested that human rights law creates certain obligations on states
26:13to respect the fundamental rights of people seeking refuge that is what we are discussing now
26:19there's however a point which we want to treat very delicately and that is this tougher migration laws
26:25are they connected or could they be feeling the tragic accidents that we see in the mediterranean do
26:31you see a connection yes or no we're taking a big risk that leads to deaths no it's the open borders
26:37that incentivizes deadly both boats over the mediterranean yes it is the lack of legal pathways for
26:46migration that creates the situation in the mediterranean some countries assimilate better than
26:50others yes or no absolutely i mean that's uh that's a no-brainer this is a very dangerous part
26:55of the extreme right rhetoric where they're trying to present certain cultures as incompatible with
27:00each other and this i mean this is also it's the same rhetoric that has been used that was used on skin
27:06color used to be used and now we are talking about cultures and final question has your opponent in
27:11any way managed to change your mind your views uh no same question to you but i can guess the answer already
27:19no surprisingly not yeah thank you very much for joining us here on the ring on euronews and as
27:26every week and as ever we want to hear from you and get your thoughts so please do write to us at
27:31the ring at euronews.com and of course see you soon on euronews and hopefully we can get a handshake
27:38because that's also part of democracy thank you very much
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