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Commissaire européen à la migration : « Nous devons regagner la confiance des citoyens »
Le commissaire européen chargé de la migration, Magnus Brunner, estime que le nouveau pacte sur la migration et l'asile est en passe de s'attaquer à un problème qui alimente le populisme depuis de nombreuses années.
LIRE L’ARTICLE : http://fr.euronews.com/2025/12/02/commissaire-europeen-a-la-migration-nous-devons-regagner-la-confiance-des-citoyens
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Le commissaire européen chargé de la migration, Magnus Brunner, estime que le nouveau pacte sur la migration et l'asile est en passe de s'attaquer à un problème qui alimente le populisme depuis de nombreuses années.
LIRE L’ARTICLE : http://fr.euronews.com/2025/12/02/commissaire-europeen-a-la-migration-nous-devons-regagner-la-confiance-des-citoyens
Abonnez-vous à notre chaine. Euronews est disponible sur Dailymotion en 12 langues
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00:00Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
00:30Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
01:00So, yeah, there are other tough jobs as well, but the topic is, of course, quite challenging.
01:06So, getting the new EU pact on asylum and migration over the line until next summer is your most important task right now.
01:16Why should we all believe that this is better than all the other initiatives over the past 10 years?
01:23Yeah, it's the first time that the member states agreed on something, on a basis.
01:27The pact is a good basis. It's not perfect, of course not.
01:31There were some missing pieces as well.
01:33But I always say it's better to have 70% than 0%.
01:38And that's why we have to get the pact implemented.
01:40That is really important. That is key.
01:43The member states are on track.
01:45There are some challenges, of course, until June 2026.
01:48But we are on track.
01:50And it's important to implement.
01:54The missing pieces, like return regulation, like safe third country, safe country of origin, that is also important.
02:01That's what we presented as well.
02:03But implementing the pact is key.
02:06The member states have agreed on that.
02:07And it's a very good basis.
02:08And after that, of course, we have to further develop the whole policy.
02:12You mentioned the return mechanism.
02:14There is the controversial idea of return hubs.
02:18So the idea to send individuals who have no right to stay in the EU to a third country.
02:25Where are we on this?
02:26Who should negotiate here?
02:28And who should be the partner on the other side?
02:31I know that Germany and Greece are now talking to countries in Africa, for example.
02:36Well, our role here as a commission is to pave the way,
02:39to have the right legislative framework also.
02:42And that is what the return regulation is about.
02:46We presented that quite quickly, actually, in the first 100 days.
02:51And now it's in the parliament and in the council and for the parliament and the council to have an agreement at the end of the day.
02:58But it is important because we have the situation that only one out of five people who are illegally in the European Union are actually being returned,
03:05which is not acceptable, I would say.
03:07And which the people in Europe don't accept, which I totally understand.
03:12That's why we need new rules.
03:15That's why the regulation is really important.
03:18And yes, there are possibilities for the member states to look into new solutions, new innovative solutions.
03:25And return hubs is one of it.
03:28So paving the way, making the framework and making it possible for the member states to look into possibilities like return hubs is key.
03:39And that's what we did with the return regulation.
03:40But you don't want the EU commission to negotiate on behalf of all the member states.
03:45No, we can support them, of course, when it comes to agreements with third countries where we put migration also on the table.
03:51This migration diplomacy, I think, is key.
03:53But, of course, when it comes to concrete agreements, then it's for the member states to negotiate that.
04:00They have to send us the agreement beforehand so that we make sure that all the legislations are met and all the functions are met.
04:11That is important, the safeguards which are there, but it's for the member states to discuss what is good, I think, and what makes me optimistic that some member states work together there and try to find common solutions, which is good.
04:28And we support that as a commission.
04:29So under the new rules, EU countries must distribute among themselves at least 30,000 asylum seekers per year or pay money, make a financial contribution.
04:41What happens if all countries opt for that second option?
04:45Well, we'll see.
04:46I mean, we just delivered the solidarity cycle, the mechanism just two weeks ago, where we define which member state is under which pressure.
04:56All member states have different challenges, all are sort of under pressure, but, of course, in different ways.
05:03Frontline member states have a different challenge than member states with secondary migration, for instance.
05:09So we try to – and we have clear rules on that in the pact.
05:13It's a clear mechanism, and that's what we presented two weeks ago to the member states, to the council, and now it's the council to decide also.
05:22And that's, to your question, is then the negotiations between the member states also, in which direction they are going, but for the council then to decide, hopefully, in December, already on the solidarity circle.
05:37I mean, the question was, of course, a little provocative.
05:40Not every country will do that, but we have two countries, Poland and Hungary, who have already said we're not taking any asylum seekers, we're not paying any money.
05:48So what are the consequences if this happens?
05:50Well, just take Poland as an example.
05:53Poland is under pressure, of course, because they are in the eastern border side.
05:57Hybrid threats coming from Russia and the Belarusian side.
06:01I saw that firsthand when visiting the Polish-Belorussian border, saw that migrants are actually used as a weapon, as a hybrid weapon, against the European Union.
06:09So we see that they are under pressure, of course, and also they took a lot of Ukrainians, so they were very helpful there as well.
06:18They integrated very well in their labor market, so they did a very good job, and we acknowledge that they are under pressure.
06:24Yeah, so Poland doesn't have to take any migrants.
06:28There's no worries about that.
06:30And Hungary?
06:30Well, Hungary is a different topic because Hungary decided or told us not to take part in the pact implementation, but then they don't benefit on the other side.
06:43So either you take part, then you benefit from the solidarity if you are under pressure.
06:49And as I said before, it's not perfect, but Hungary could also benefit from the pact, and the whole European Union benefits from the pact,
06:56because we have better external border protection, we have safer borders, we have asylum procedures at the borders already.
07:06That's actually what all member states ask for and what the pact delivers.
07:10Hopefully Hungary will also look into it and look into the benefits they have from implementing the pact on the one hand,
07:16but also from the other regulations and legislations we delivered already.
07:20So illegal immigration in the EU, and that's what we're talking about here, fell by 35% between 2024 and 2025,
07:29and there has been a 95% decline on the Western Balkan route alone.
07:34And according to the Austrian government, for example, illegal migration is currently hovering at around 0%.
07:42What has led to these numbers? Is irregular migration still an emergency?
07:49It is still, of course, yes. Numbers are going down, that's good, that makes us optimistic also.
07:54You mentioned the numbers, 35% in general in the last year.
07:58And that is even before the new pact is being implemented.
08:00Yes, but we send signals already, and we have agreements with third countries as well, and that's exactly the point.
08:08On the one hand, it's the stability, of course, in countries like Syria, for instance, that helps, of course, that helps.
08:15And then also agreements with third countries.
08:18Just to give you an example, Mauritania, for instance.
08:20We have an agreement with Mauritania, and the numbers were going down immediately.
08:25And now we have zero departures coming from Mauritania, just to give an example.
08:29We have other challenges, of course, and other challenging countries, but it helps.
08:34So bringing our European house in order is the first step.
08:38That's what we have to do with implementing the pact, with the return regulation, with the safe country and others.
08:44And then the next step is the external dimension, negotiating with third countries and putting migration on the table when it comes to comprehensive agreements with third countries.
08:55Despite all these positive developments that you just described, migration is still a massive discontent among citizens, and it still drives election campaigns.
09:09How do you explain that?
09:10Has migration policy become a political punching bag?
09:14Well, you can see, and what you mentioned is, of course, completely correct, that it's at the heart of everyone.
09:20It's a topic where everyone is, of course, worried about also, which I totally understand.
09:26Because 10 years ago, the European Union and Europe all together took a lot of responsibility when we had the crisis in Syria.
09:34A lot of responsibility, but we didn't have any rules.
09:37We didn't have a system.
09:39We didn't have control over what is happening in the European Union.
09:42And now with this pact, with the new legislation all together, we tried to get control back.
09:48And what your question is, in the direction your question was going, we need the trust of the people back.
09:55And with having control, with having rules, with having a system, we tried to get the trust of the people back, between the member states also, but also to the people in Europe and to the citizens in Europe.
10:08Well, same with Schengen, right?
10:10Whenever there were some migration issues, some countries closed the borders immediately.
10:14Is that trust building as well?
10:16Is that the way forward here?
10:18If Schengen becomes a thing you can pick whenever you want?
10:21No, no, of course.
10:22Schengen has to work.
10:23And I think Schengen is one of the best examples how Europe can work, the best achievements we have in Europe.
10:30And it has to work.
10:32What can we do to make it work again is exactly implementing the pact, because in the pact we have the protection of our external borders.
10:41That is key to get rid of the internal border controls.
10:45And that's what the member states know, of course.
10:47There was pressure in the last years.
10:50So I totally understand that some member states had to take measures there as well with internal border controls.
10:56But our aim altogether is, of course, to get rid of these internal border controls to make Schengen work.
11:04And Schengen is something which, of course, has to be developed all the time.
11:08We have to keep Schengen going and growing also.
11:11And it's still very, I would say, very interesting also for new participants of the Schengen area, like we had Romania and Bulgaria just joining.
11:22We had Croatia joining.
11:23So a lot of member states want to join the Schengen area, which is great, which is a good sign, because it's about free movement.
11:30It's about better economic growth also.
11:35But we have to make sure that we protect our external borders.
11:39And that's what the pact is all about and giving the member states, in this case, the trust back that we have control over who comes into the European Union and who leaves the European Union also.
11:51And just to mention one thing on the pact, because that's also very important, our entry-exit system.
11:57We didn't know in the last years who actually, on a digital basis, who comes into the European Union, when and where and who leaves it again.
12:04And now with the entry-exit system, which we just introduced and started five weeks ago, where we already have more than eight million registrations in the first five weeks, which is a good sign.
12:17So for the first time, we know who actually comes into the European Union, when and where, and then who leaves the European Union again, when and where.
12:25That is important, because that's how we hopefully get the trust back, because we have control over what is happening.
12:34One hot topic, especially in Germany, is the repatriation of people from Afghanistan.
12:40And what is controversial here is the fact that the government needs to talk to the Taliban in Afghanistan, the new rulers.
12:47Where do you come down on this?
12:49Is it legitimate to talk with the Taliban in order to get people home?
12:53We have to differentiate between acknowledging that there is a government, respecting the government, which we don't do.
13:01But not getting engaged with third countries, even though we don't like their governments and the way they're doing things, is still important.
13:09So on a technical level, I totally understand and we support that as a commission as well.
13:14So our people, our experts were there in Kabul also to to talk about possibilities, because not getting engaged means it doesn't get better.
13:24So, yes, it's not fun.
13:26It's not easy.
13:28But not getting engaged is not an option.
13:30So, yes, I do think we have to talk to these countries.
13:34Even we don't, of course, recognize them as a government.
13:38But we have to talk to them.
13:40No option not to talk.
13:42So it is necessary to talk to countries that have a bad track record.
13:46Oh, yes, it is still necessary on a technical level.
13:49As I said, we do that.
13:50Some member states do it with Afghanistan, for instance.
13:54And we had these examples with criminals and posing a security threat to the European Union, to member states.
14:02And I think it's legitimate to to send them back and to find solutions with these these regions or countries to find solutions to to get them back to their countries.
14:14Yeah, let's take a step back now and talk about the future of migration and how you see it, because getting people back is one thing is also the fact that we need people.
14:29We need skilled labor just to keep our countries safe and prosperous.
14:35How do you think about that?
14:37Should Europe approach countries like Australia and Canada with quota systems, et cetera, and then they select certain professions that they need rather than than others?
14:48Yes, we have to distinguish between the illegal migration part, which we have to do everything to fight against, because it's a business in the meantime for smugglers, for human traffickers.
14:59And that's what we have to fight against.
15:00So that's the illegal migration part.
15:02No doubt about that.
15:04But then, of course, we have the legal migration part and we need legal migration for our labor markets, of course, as you as you mentioned rightly.
15:11So finding legal pathways to come to Europe, but that it's us to decide who comes into the European Union and not the smugglers and the traffickers.
15:21That that is, I think, key.
15:23And then, of course, we have some humanitarian responsibility.
15:26Also, of course, when it comes to asylum seekers of people who are whose life is in danger, who are threatened by death in their countries.
15:36Of course, there we have another obligation.
15:38But distinguishing between those three topics is key.
15:42It's not always easy.
15:43But putting our and bringing our European house in order against illegal migration, only then, I think, we have the chance to find legal pathways.
15:53What we do on the legal part is we have we have issues like like talent pools, for instance, which we just decided on in the trial between parliament and council where we had a decision already, a positive decision.
16:08We have talent partnerships with third countries.
16:11As I give you an example, we were in India as a college where it was also about about partnerships.
16:16How can we adjust also our partnerships there?
16:20And the Indians told us we have a very good education, but maybe our education doesn't always match the skills you need in the European Union, in the economy there.
16:31So adjusting there is something very, very concrete, but also with other regions in the world, of course.
16:37Recently, you have met the Pope in Rome for an exchange of views, and you've said that the dialogue with the churches, you consider a task that is very close to your heart.
16:49What do you expect from this dialogue?
16:51Well, I had a very good meeting with the Pope, which is, of course, for me as a Catholic, also quite a very exciting moment.
17:01But when it comes to substance, it was a really good discussion and meeting we had because we are on the same page, actually, respecting human rights, respecting fundamental rights, yes, but also fighting the human traffickers and getting control back in Europe.
17:19And I think the Pope totally agree with that, and also to distinguish between the different forms, the illegal part, the legal part, and the humanitarian responsibility.
17:29The Pope, of course, has backed the U.S. bishops in their criticism of the Trump administration and criticized the methods of that very radical migration policy and also the lack of respect for individuals.
17:45Do you think that the Pope should get into this political arena and take sides?
17:52It's not for me to judge what the Pope has to do or doesn't have to do, but I think the Pope is a very important and strong voice, of course, in the world, which is important, and getting his view is always good, I think.
18:07And that's why I was very happy to have this conversation with him.
18:12We take that very seriously as a European Union, of course, and the balance is always important.
18:18On the one hand, getting control back, showing the people and getting the trust also back of the people in Europe.
18:26And on the other hand, of course, respecting fundamental rights and human rights.
18:31But both can go hand in hand.
18:32It has to go hand in hand.
18:34But fighting the illegal part is so key in order to get the trust back and to get control back.
18:41The Pope and you have one thing in common, that is the love of tennis.
18:45Is it true that you gave him a set of tennis ball with the EU logo on it?
18:49I did.
18:50I did, yes.
18:51What did he say?
18:53Well, we thought about the present, which we bring to the Pope.
18:56And I knew that Yannick Sinner, when he played in Rome, gave him a tennis racket.
19:02And, of course, that's great for him.
19:04And then we thought, OK, it would be a good idea to give him the balls also with the European Union flag on it.
19:12He was very pleased, I think.
19:14At least he laughed at our president.
19:17You were president of the Austrian Tennis Federation.
19:20Exactly, exactly.
19:21Fancy a match with the Pope?
19:23I would love to have that, of course.
19:25It would be a lifetime dream.
19:27Of course, that would be great, but I'm not sure whether that's possible.
19:32But when you get that, you'll be back on the show again.
19:35Yeah, we'll see what the outcome is.
19:38But, yes, I'm an incredibly keen tennis player, at least.
19:42And I used to be president of the Austrian Tennis Federation.
19:44And my whole family is a completely keen tennis family.
19:48All right, Magnus Brunner, EU Commissioner for Internal Affairs and Migration.
19:52Thank you so much for a great Europe conversation.
19:54Thank you very much.
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