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On this Special Report, India Today’s Anjali Istwal anchors a debate on the 2025 Kerala local body election results. BJP Spokesperson Tom Vadakkan terms the party’s performance in the Thiruvananthapuram Corporation a ‘watershed moment’, echoing Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s sentiments. However, Congress National Spokesperson Dr. Shama Mohamed dismisses the BJP’s claims, highlighting the UDF’s decisive sweep across municipalities and gram panchayats. Reporter Shibi Mol provides ground insights, noting that Thiruvananthapuram is often called the ‘Gujarat of Kerala’ by BJP supporters due to their long-term focus on the capital. The discussion also touches on internal Congress dynamics and the impact of minority consolidation.
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00:00Tom Vadakkan joins us. He's the national spokesperson of the BJP and also joining us
00:05is our very own reporter from the Bureau of Kerala, Shibhimol. Thank you very much for
00:11joining in all of you. Mr. Vadakkan, you must have heard what Rajdeep also said. He says
00:18the headline is UDF winning, which is the Congress-led faction which has won and it's
00:26clearly paving its way for the assembly elections. BJP or the NDA right now is just making its
00:32baby steps into this. But the Prime Minister has also tweeted in this. Do you think actually
00:40it is that way that the Prime Minister needs to tweet? Well, Prime Minister has called it
00:47a watershed moment, which it is. I would like to use an intro which Rajdeep often uses when
00:55it's Maharashtra pole. I come from the States and I am part of that soil. Rajdeep sitting
01:02in Delhi, things are very, you know, I mean, you divide the headline into what is the possibility,
01:09the good win. The drama has just started. Now, Turandrum, the gain is 50 seats and 50 seats,
01:18believe me is out of 100. And what is the position of UDF? They are with 19 seats. LDF is still holding
01:29on 29. My friend, this is a very strange election. And Kerala, I congratulate our Kalikarkas and our
01:41voters who stood by us and have proved that change is happening. The lotus is blooming,
01:48Rajdeep, in my state. And that is the headline. That is the headline.
01:54Sir, you are telling me in a state where the UDF has scored a big decisive victory, the BJP's
02:01victory in Trivandrum should take away from all the other victories. Is that what you're saying?
02:06You're saying that what happened in Trivandrum is actually what's happened across Kerala. I'm going
02:11through all the numbers. Clearly, UDF has scored a decisive victory. Now, you can spin it whichever
02:16way you want and you have every reason to claim credit for what happened in Thiruvananthapuram.
02:20But Thiruvananthapuram, with due regard, Mr. Vadakkan, is not Kerala. All I'm asking is what is the big
02:26headline I was asked? And the big headline is UDF, ahead of the assembly polls, has scored a big win.
02:31BJP has undoubtedly made some gains. But let's not obscure from the big picture, sir.
02:36Okay. Mr. Vadakkan…
02:38I agree. In cricketing terms, the word spin is often used. I'm not spinning anything.
02:44Trivandrum happens to be the capital of Kerala. And the demographic structure of Trivandrum is a reflection
02:57of what is happening across the state. Okay, Mr. Vadakkan, I will come back to you for more.
03:04We have done well in the urban…
03:05Mr. Vadakkan also joining us is Dr. Shama Mohamad. She's the national spokesperson for
03:09Indian National Congress. Let me bring her also into the conversation.
03:14Dr. Mohamad, the question that I want to ask you, which Rajdeep actually pointed out earlier,
03:20was that there is a lot of internal friction within your party. Although, the numbers are good for you.
03:27And also, Shibi, just before we started the show, told me that Mr. Tharoor did not even campaign in his own constituency.
03:36That brings to fore that there is a lot that you guys have to contend with before you get active about your assembly elections preparations.
03:47So, are you happy with the results and are you confident that the next is going to be the bastion of your assembly elections?
03:56Yeah, first and foremost, my name is not Shama. It's Shama.
03:59Right. So, there are a couple of points here.
04:02One point here is that this is a huge victory. Last time we had one corporation, this time four.
04:09We have gone off to 54 municipalities, 503 gram panchayats and seven district panchayats.
04:17It's a decisive win for the Congress party. It is a clear message to the LDF that they are not coming back.
04:23You know, normally panchayats are won by the LDF, but this time it's a very clear victory for us.
04:29Number two, I have seen Dr. Tharoor campaigning in Trivandrum. It's wrong to say that he did not campaign.
04:38Number three, in 2016, the BJP had an MLA called O Rajagopal.
04:44Now, Tom Wadakin is talking about one victory, which they got a mayor in Trivandrum.
04:51Now, why didn't the O Rajagopal of 2016 could not increase in 2021?
04:57In fact, what happened? They completely collapsed.
05:00So, it doesn't mean that one Trivandrum win is going to a corporation win.
05:06We'll see that they have something in the assembly. According to me, it's just not going to happen.
05:12And it was a three-way fight. Certain people, you know, sometimes it happens.
05:17It was a close one for them. Also, Trivandrum was a close call for the NDA.
05:22So, the case which he's saying is that O Rajagopal should have translated in 2021.
05:30And finally, in the last 24, they got one MP, that is Suresh Gobi.
05:37But in his constituency, they've completely collapsed.
05:40In Trishur, they've completely collapsed the BJP. What happened? What happened?
05:44It was such a huge victory for Suresh Gobi. Where are you all in Trishur?
05:48So, the show of the Congress party, the UDF, I must say, is spectacular.
05:55And it's very clear. See, the people of Kerala, you can't in the last minute give Asha workers something.
06:01You can't say we'll give you a pension. They are not who.
06:04And they have understood that the LDF is taking them for a right and we are going to change the government.
06:09And that is not going to be BJP because BJP, it's impossible for them to win in Kerala.
06:13So, it is definitely going to be Congress. That is the UDF.
06:16Okay.
06:17No, but you know, Shama Mohammed, Shama Mohammed, you know, the fact is Dr. Tharoor has not campaigned extensively.
06:23Do not, you know…
06:24I was just bringing that to Shibhi.
06:26No, no, no.
06:27Let's give it to Shibhi.
06:28In Thiruvananthapuram, the split in your party is wide open.
06:32And many believe that if there is one thing that will cost you the assembly elections, it is the infighting within your party.
06:38You see, we saw this even in Haryana, where the infighting at the top of your leadership costs you Haryana.
06:43So, just as the BJP may be exaggerating the scale, making Thiruvananthapuram as if it's one Kerala, the Congress also needs to recognize what happened in Thiruvananthapuram is partly because there has been an isolation of Dr. Tharoor within the Thiruvananthapuram unit.
06:58He hardly campaigned.
06:59And across Kerala, there are several parts of the state where there is still infighting, particularly on the question, Kaun Banega leader or Mukhe Mantri.
07:07It has cost you in the past.
07:08I hope that you all will also be a little humble, even in an hour of victory.
07:12Okay.
07:13So, I can say one thing, Rajdeep, here is that after this victory, we should not just be in a laid back sort of mood.
07:21We have to work extra hard because I know how the LDF functions.
07:24They will be sprinting now.
07:26So, we really need to work hard.
07:28And about this internal issues, yes, we had some internal issues.
07:32But what I have seen right now is most of them have been ironed out and sorted.
07:37I have met leaders and most of them have...
07:39Dr. Tharoor has not campaigned for you extensively, ma'am.
07:41Your life virtually rejected and marginalised Dr. Tharoor.
07:45Let's be honest.
07:46And maybe he also is finding his own path.
07:48Can I just say something?
07:50In Kerala, for the Congress party, for the Congress party nationally, the Kerala election is a do or die election.
07:57So, we are not going to keep egos of party leaders in front.
08:01All those things are said because if we don't win, it's finished for the Congress.
08:05So, we have to win.
08:07And we will overcome these small issues.
08:09You know, we will now.
08:10After this victory, everything will be ironed out.
08:12Okay, Dr. Mohamad, let's quickly cut across to my colleague Shibhi.
08:16Because she is the one who is covering it on the ground.
08:18So, Shibhi, what would you say?
08:21Are the leaders in Congress, like leaders like Tharoor, are they actually alienated by the Congress?
08:28And this is the reason why they are not campaigning?
08:31Well, Anjali, I think it's very evident that there is a division in the Congress in terms of,
08:35because there are multiple leaders eyeing the CM position, CM chair.
08:39Like, we can start with Ramesh Chenitala to the current opposition to VD Saadishin,
08:43to KC Venugopal also in the picture, with Shashithar also, you know, raising his case very seriously.
08:49So, there is division inside the Congress party.
08:51But this victory that the Congress achieved can be clearly seen as a verdict of anti-incumbency.
08:57It's the result of the anti-incumbency that what we are seeing across Kerala.
09:01It's a Congress wave in Kerala. We don't see this happening during the local body polls.
09:05Even if the LDF is in the opposition or in the government,
09:08we mostly see them performing better than the Congress for the local body polls,
09:13because their organization structure is much, much better than any other party in the state.
09:17So, in that case, this is a clear victory of anti-incumbency.
09:21That anti-incumbency wave has favored the Congress across the state.
09:26In Thirwanandapuram, that's favored the BJP, because last two terms they have been in the opposition.
09:31Congress was literally not there in the picture.
09:33But this time, they've improved their stats from eight seats.
09:35They've gone up to 19 seats, which is huge.
09:37And that's also caused the left also in the Thirandamal Corporation.
09:40And it's a very long term effort.
09:42It's been 30 plus years where, you know, they have been working on ground.
09:45It's not the BJP, but the RSS that's been on ground, literally taking the fight forward.
09:50There have been multiple issues, but it's the RSS that stood there.
09:54And Thirwanandapuram has been, they call it the Gujarat of Kerala.
09:57Thirwanandapuram is called the Gujarat of Kerala by the BJP supporters.
10:00Because their plan, long term plan has been Thirwanandapuram.
10:03That's what we saw in Neymam when they won their first assembly seat in 2016.
10:07Trishur was the seat they won for the Lok Sabha, but that was a very rare case where an individual's aura outperformed everything.
10:14But in Thirwanandapuram, it's the party that stands strong.
10:17In the last two, three terms, they've been finishing second for the Lok Sabha elections.
10:21And it's also because it was Shashi Tarur contesting that a lot of, you know, the Congress came out victorious also.
10:28And one more thing, one more thing that I need to highlight this time was,
10:31every time the BJP actively campaigns, shows that they are out there, the minority votes get consolidated.
10:39This time, the BJP worked very silently and ensured that the minority votes got split between the left as well as the UDF.
10:46So that was a very, very smart move, especially in the coastal region and other regions where the minority...
10:51So lack of polarization actually helped BJP is what you're saying here.
10:56That's quite interesting.
10:58Mr. Vadakkan, as we can clearly see, it's a way for the Congress led UDF.
11:04But you're saying that the Lotus is blooming over there.
11:07If we go by what Shibi is saying, RSS has been working there for a very long time.
11:12But we had always seen it as RSS versus the left fight, you know, that we see it playing out in many places and very violently also sometimes.
11:21Do you think RSS has not been able to create that push for you, the BJP in Kerala the way it has in other states?
11:33I have to tell you something. The largest number of shakas are in Kerala compared to all over the country.
11:41Now, the RSS is a social organization. They are a nationalist organization.
11:47They believe in carrying everybody together.
11:50Now, this mention about by your reporter from Kerala that there has been minority consolidation.
12:00Believe me, you, we have now developed a huge minority support, which in coming days, with the RSS and the BJP Karykartas working together, we are an election fighting machine.
12:16What you're seeing right now is just the beginning. And as you said, and it was mentioned here, the fight in the Congress party for the leadership is not going to diminish.
12:32It's going to widen. And the information that I have is Shama may not like to speak about it at this juncture, but I surely welcome her to speak with me in a debate during the assembly elections.
12:47We will wait and watch Shama before forming a judgment on how the BJP will function and how it will revive itself in the state of Kerala.
12:58You have yourself given bites on television with a very different view.
13:03But today, when there is victory, you stand alone in saying that, well, you know, we are going to win.
13:10Let's see. Let's wait and watch. The curtains are up. The movie begins.
13:14Yes. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Which is the bite which I've given differently?
13:18I've always given bites in support of my party. I don't know which is this bite you're talking about.
13:22So don't come out and say things which I've never said.
13:24I'm talking about your views on representation of women in the Congress party.
13:29Yeah, so that's a different thing. There's nothing to do with the…
13:31No, that's not different. That's not different.
13:33Representation of women is something which…
13:34You were talking about your own party, Shama.
13:36You were talking about…
13:38Okay, let's try and bring back the conversation to the elections.
13:43No, he's in a way to Ujia.
13:45Dr. Mohamad, please go ahead. About the elections.
13:48No, no. So he's right. They don't have the highest number, the second highest number of shakas after UP.
13:54But it is… If we had these number of shakas, why haven't you able to be even winning one MLA? You know, you have not won an assembly seat since 2016.
14:04Wait and watch.
14:05That's a shame.
14:06Wait and watch.
14:07Wait and watch.
14:08Wait and watch means everybody can wait and watch.
14:10I can't be elected around the corner.
14:12You are not winning.
14:13You are not winning.
14:14That's it.
14:15Wait and watch.
14:16Later on, you know, regret.
14:18Let me tell you…
14:19Because you were on television on this channel.
14:22I tell you…
14:23Mr. Wadakkan, let Dr. Mohamad speak because she waited quite patiently while you were speaking.
14:29So the Muslims don't vote for the BJP because there's no BJP. They don't give them MP tickets, MLA tickets, nothing.
14:36They tried to get the Christians. Then the Manipur issue happened. Then the Chhattisgarh nuns issue happened.
14:42So after that, the Christians are very, very upset with the Bhatia Janta Party, the way they treat their people.
14:49And they said, you know what, the Prime Minister comes out and gives lunches, invites all the priests and fathers, but of no point.
14:56The bishops come in, but the way they treat, every time there's a…
14:59The nun is there, they say they are…
15:01They're converting them.
15:02I mean, poor nuns.
15:03They've been working for the society for years, you know, for education, healthcare, various things.
15:08Then they come out and say these nuns are converting in all of North India.
15:12They bring out these things.
15:13Then you put them behind bars.
15:14I mean, of course the Christians in Kerala have seen this and they are not going to keep quiet about it.
15:19So the minorities as such are not with the Bhatia Janta Party.
15:22The ones who really vote for them are the high caste Hindus, which is very high in Trivandrum.
15:27The Nair's and the Manan's.
15:28So that's why they've won Trivandrum and that's why they're not being able to win elsewhere.
15:32So of course they do the polarization thing, but it's going to be difficult.
15:35But the minorities itself are nearly 50% in Kerala.
15:38Yes, Mr. Wadakar, now you can go ahead, please.
15:42Well, I know she's living in an Alice in Wonderland.
15:46She does not know about the Christian outreach.
15:49She talked about Trishur.
15:50Yes, there has been a problem in Trishur.
15:52But incidentally, for your information, we have increased seats in Trishur than the earlier municipal elections.
15:59So let us go on record that Kerala has the footprint of the Christian community and the Muslim community, I dare say.
16:08Because in Kori Kod and other regions, you've seen the sprouts of BJP winning many of the elections going on.
16:17So please go to Kerala more often and then you'll realize in your own areas, it will be the Muslims who are coming out and voting.
16:28Don't divide the Muslim brethren.
16:30Don't do this radicalization.
16:32This is my Kerala visit.
16:33Muslims vote according to democratic practices, not because of Congress.
16:38You may show your finger.
16:39That's okay.
16:40I'm sure that I'm voting.
16:41I'm there.
16:42I voted.
16:43I was in Kerala.
16:44Where is yours?
16:45Can you show your finger?
16:46Can you show your finger?
16:47Can you show your finger?
16:48Can you show your finger?
16:49Did you vote?
16:50Did you vote?
16:51Did you vote?
16:52Okay.
16:53Doesn't she have the patience to listen to what I'm saying?
16:55Did you vote Mr. Wadakar?
16:56Did you vote Mr. Wadakar in Kerala?
16:59I went.
17:00I did vote.
17:01I did vote.
17:02I campaigned.
17:03Can I see it?
17:05Can I see your vote?
17:07I don't have to prove anything.
17:09Dr. Mohamad, it's not really required for him to show a proof of his vote.
17:14It has nothing to do with Kerala.
17:16No, I won't.
17:17Okay.
17:18Okay.
17:20I'm sorry I'll have to end this debate here.
17:23Because I think we are completely digressing from the point.
17:26But thank you very much both of you for joining in this conversation.
17:29And it will be interesting to see whether the lotus actually starts budding.
17:34I would not say blooming and blossoming, budding in Kerala or not in the upcoming elections.
17:39But Shibhi, thank you very much to our guests.
17:41But Shibhi, before I leave you, what is your analysis of the elections in the future of both the UDF and the BJP or the NDA in the upcoming elections?
17:55Well, I think the results have given clearly an edge to the Congress-led UDF because, you know, they have won the recently held by-elections.
18:02But that was also a Congress stronghold, that elections were held in Congress strongholds.
18:06But this is local body polls.
18:08This clearly shows the anti-incumbency is not what the left has actually anticipated.
18:12It's much beyond that.
18:13But again, politics, anything can happen in politics in a week's time.
18:17So we can't predict.
18:18It's too early to predict.
18:19But still, the Congress has an upper hand.
18:22And also for the BJP, this can help them establish that there is an ideological shift in Kerala.
18:27Okay.
18:28Which they could not do with the Trishur victory.
18:30We will keep an eye on the upcoming elections and how the dynamics are actually shifting or not shifting.
18:36Thank you very much to all of you who tuned in to watch this conversation.
18:40Thank you very much.
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