A belga kábítószerügyi biztos: Nyomást kell gyakorolni a titkosított appokra
Ine Van Wymersch, Belgium első nemzeti kábítószerügyi biztosa az Euronewsnak elmondta, hogy az Európai Uniónak fel kell lépnie a titkosított üzenetküldő platformok ellen, amelyek lehetővé teszik a kábítószer-kereskedők számára, hogy összehangolják munkájukat.
00:00My guest today is Belgium's first National Drugs Commissioner, Inna Van Vermes.
00:14She has taken on the role at a time when a spate of drug-related shootings is rocking the country's capital, Brussels.
00:22And its main port in Antwerp has become the major gateway to cocaine entering Europe.
00:27Drugs arriving here are not only destined for the Belgian market, much of it is transported illegally to other European countries,
00:35making this more than just Belgium's problem.
00:39Commissioner, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us.
00:41So we're in Brussels and in this city as well as in Belgium's second city, Antwerp.
00:47We've seen a recent uptick in drug-related violence on our streets.
00:53Is the Belgian government taking enough measures to tackle this problem?
00:58Well, at least there is a sense of urgency and the awareness is high to tackle this problem.
01:03The appointment of a National Drug Commissioner and his agency is, of course, an important step towards developing a national
01:11and even an international strategy to tackle this crime.
01:15And one of the solutions that the new government is putting on the table is putting Belgian soldiers on the streets as early as April next year.
01:25Do you support that move? It's quite controversial here.
01:28Well, at least it is a measure among a lot of other measures that have been taken.
01:33For us it is important to develop not only a clear approach, but also a hold and a build approach.
01:40We were inspired by UK to develop this methodology.
01:44I think it is important that in a first clear phases we take over the streets again
01:50and we show to the citizens that the government is there and that we are ready and that we are taking control
01:56and that we are not losing control.
01:58Of course, we cannot expect from military in the streets that they will solve the root causes of this problem.
02:04We know that we have to develop an educational policy, a poverty policy.
02:11We need to get people back to work.
02:13Just to clarify, does that mean that you've lost control in some parts of this?
02:17Some people have the idea that there is some kind of loss of control, which is not the case.
02:23Police are working on that, magistrates are working on that,
02:26but we cannot deny that there is an impact on the security and safety feelings of people living in those areas.
02:32Now, an investigating judge in the city of Antwerp said very recently in October that Belgium is a narco state.
02:40Do you agree?
02:40What she said actually was that Belgium should not become a narco state.
02:45And I think that's a very important difference.
02:47We are not a narco state, but we really have to undertake action to prevent that we become a narco state.
02:54Because Europol pointed out also recently that corruption is a main concern.
03:01There is a lot of money going on in this criminal world, and it's with this money that people are convinced to work with criminals.
03:12And that is when we don't tackle the business model, then we are having a serious risk to develop towards a narco state.
03:21The investigating judge in question who put out this warning had to go into hiding.
03:27There have been a former justice minister as well who has been at risk tackling these gangs and these structures.
03:35Do you feel safe doing this job?
03:38Well, we cannot be naive.
03:40The enemy we're facing doesn't have any kind of values or ethical standards.
03:46So we have to be aware of a security and a safety risk, of course.
03:51But this cannot make us not handle and not implement a policy that we should implement.
03:57And I think this organized crime has a lot of faces and aspects, but only has one heart, I would say.
04:04And the center of gravity really is the money.
04:07These are the criminal assets.
04:08So I think the fact that they are getting nervous is because we are just focusing on their criminal assets,
04:15because that's really their reason of existing.
04:17I'm wondering, you know, we have some very radical proposals coming on the table from the US president,
04:24for example, Donald Trump, targeting boats in the Caribbean Sea.
04:29Is that something that authorities here in Europe need to contemplate?
04:32Well, the criminal organizations, cocaine traffic is a very complex problem.
04:38So it only deserves and demands complexity in our answers.
04:42We have to know where the new routes are going to, to be able to put barriers in all logistic chains.
04:49Because if we tackle the logistic chains, the logistics that they are abusing to put up their business,
04:55we are really causing these criminal organizations serious difficulties.
05:00Because even if they change products, whether they are importing cocaine or precursors to fabric synthetical drugs,
05:08they are all coming through the same logistic chains.
05:12And to do that, I'm assuming that international work is very important and working with European partners.
05:18Do we need more cooperation at the European level?
05:22Is Brussels, in the sense of EU institutions, doing enough to support?
05:26Well, we are in close contact with the EU Commission, of course, and we collaborate also to the EU strategy.
05:33We consider it as a global problem.
05:36We need to tackle it on a global level and on a local level on the same time.
05:41Where we need more pressure, I think, from the European institutions,
05:45it's really to put these big companies under pressure that are bringing their encrypted communication tools,
05:53for example, to our market, to force them to collaborate with law enforcement.
05:58These are things that we can do on a European level.
06:02Same thing is to implement the ISPS codes.
06:05These are the security measures that are taken in the ports to avoid terrorist attacks,
06:11but we have to enlarge them towards organized crime.
06:15And these are all steps that need to be taken on a European level,
06:18and I know that people are really working on that.
06:21So when you say encrypted communication services, we're talking about things like Telegram.
06:25Telegram, Signal, and all these kind of tools,
06:29they are really facilitating not only legal communication, but also illegal communication.
06:35We see that criminal organizations are really taking advantage of the fact that these companies are not very keen on collaborating with law enforcement.
06:47And if we accept that there is like a digital space where these criminals can talk freely,
06:54we are really losing our freedom at the end.
06:57I know that you are a mum yourself, and that you also worked as a juvenile prosecutor.
07:02Children are also at risk in all of this.
07:05When it comes to the situation in Belgium, what do you see as the biggest risks when it comes to children,
07:10both in terms of consumption, but also when it comes to them being recruited into criminal gangs and so on?
07:18Children are at risk because we see that mental health is really an issue.
07:25So I think we have to invest in mental health and in resilience.
07:29If we are managing towards schools, sports with the parents to create a resilient generation,
07:37then they are resilient for all kinds of problems and also recruitment by criminal organizations.
07:43On the other hand, we cannot be naïve.
07:45I am very concerned, for example, about illegal vapes.
07:50We see that the seizures that we have done of illegal refill capsules for vapes,
07:57that they are more than 80% is containing synthetical opioids.
08:02And they don't have a specific smell or color.
08:05And criminal organizations are abusing this whole logistic network of selling points of these vapes.
08:13So I'm very happy that our Minister of Public Health took the decisions that the tastes,
08:20these cherry tastes and everything of vapes, will be forbidden soonly,
08:25because criminal organizations are taking advantage of that to introduce synthetical opioids to very young children.
08:33So we really have to be aware that everything can be abused by criminal organizations.
08:41Same thing, it's about social media.
08:43We really have to be present on these social media platforms to bring a counter-narrative.
08:50In Brussels, a lot of children, youngsters, complain that they don't find a student job,
08:55that they don't find a place for a traineeship.
08:58I really think we have to offer them these chances to get a degree in school,
09:06because if we don't do this as private and public partners in a big city as Brussels,
09:12criminal organizations will offer them a criminal career.
09:15This issue of the synthetic drugs being introduced in vapes, this is very serious.
09:20What are the risks to our children?
09:23Well, the risk is that they will be addicted on a very young age,
09:27that their brain will not develop the way it should be.
09:30These are serious health risks, and we need to protect them from that
09:35by taking measures against all these logistic chain issues that are abused for synthetical drugs.
09:43And we see that Belgium, together with the Netherlands, is an important production country of synthetical drugs.
09:51And they are fabriqued based on products, precursors, chemicals that are coming from China and India mainly.
09:59They have a legal purpose.
10:00We have a strong petrochemical industry.
10:02We have a strong pharmaceutical industry.
10:05But they are misused, and they are used for the fabrics of syntheticals.
10:13And also Europe needs to think about a way to avoid that these chemicals are entering our territory.
10:22Finally, Commissioner, what we're referencing here, synthetic drugs,
10:26things like fentanyl, which we've seen really skyrockets in the US, in Canada, North America.
10:33Are we immune to this problem in Belgium, in Europe,
10:37or could we also face the same kind of situation as they're facing over the Atlantic?
10:41Well, we have very close contacts with DEA, for example.
10:45And the question is not if we will have fentanyl, but the question is when will we see fentanyl.
10:50And I'm convinced that we will see fentanyl in a different way than in the US,
10:54because our healthcare system, et cetera, is different.
10:57But we see that criminal organizations might use fentanyl to mix it with cocaine, for example.
11:05And then fentanyl is becoming an addiction accelerator, for example.
11:09The craving period is shorter, so people will be demanding for more cocaine in a shorter time.
11:17It's a bit like sweets in nutrition.
11:19They will use fentanyl in drugs that are already used on the European territory.
11:24So that is why we are very aware and supporting the European awareness system, for example.
11:30And finally, to close off, is this with fentanyl happening currently in Belgium?
11:36In Belgium, not yet.
11:37But, of course, I can base myself only on what we see.
11:41And we don't see everything, for sure.
11:43But we don't have a fentanyl issue as we have it in the US.
11:49But it is entering Europe, for sure.
11:51Commissioner, thank you so much for your time today.
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