- il y a 10 mois
Lundi 8 décembre 2025, retrouvez Khawaha Munir Mashooqullah (Founder, M5 Group) dans INTROSPECTION, une émission présentée par Nina Urman.
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00:00Hello, everyone, and welcome to Introspection.
00:11Today, I have the honor and the pleasure to welcome Khwaja Mounir Mashukala.
00:16Mounir is the founder of the M5 Group,
00:20one of the top 10 largest apparel global supply chain companies.
00:25I cannot wait to hear his story. Let's get started.
00:30Welcome, Mounir, to the show. Welcome to Introspection.
00:36Introspection. That's a good one for me.
00:38I know. Absolutely. And I know you do a lot of it in your time.
00:42I know you're somebody who's very deep, who reflects on the inside,
00:48what's happening on your emotions and your missions and your purpose.
00:53So I want to start with the first question, which seems very large,
00:57but it's so important, of who is Mounir?
01:02So Mounir is a product which you usually hear about stories from rags to riches
01:10or sometimes riches to rag.
01:13But my story is more about riches to rag to being comfortable.
01:19Because today the definition of rich is what is rich, one doesn't know.
01:27It's multiple.
01:28It's multiple.
01:28But let's say for me, it was about seven, I was seven years old
01:34when circumstances change from being born in a noble aristocratic family in Dhaka,
01:43which is today Bangladesh, and then going through very difficult circumstances
01:49because in South Asia, you know, the independence from the British,
01:55then the splitting of Pakistan into Bangladesh and Pakistan,
02:00so it was first all India.
02:02So for me, who is Mounir?
02:05I'm a product of being blessed, being grateful.
02:11And how my life has shaped up is that I had goals.
02:16I went into marriage at 22.
02:21I was father of three at 29.
02:24So I did not have the luxury or the flexibility to even use terms
02:37like I need to go find myself or take a sabbatical or, you know,
02:40I'm taking a year off.
02:42Absolutely not.
02:44So I'm a product of circumstances.
02:47I'm completely self-made.
02:49And I started way too early, but then what it has done,
02:55it's made me strong, resilient, adaptable, flexible, collapsible, agile,
03:03all those fancy words which you hear today.
03:05I did it practically.
03:08Right.
03:08And then it also gave me the ability to be a servant leader.
03:15So I lead by example.
03:20Yep.
03:20And that has also shaped my conduct with generally people, nonjudgmental.
03:32And I have an appreciation of everything in life.
03:36So I don't want to claim myself that I'm authentic, but I'm for real.
03:43Yes, you're for real.
03:45If you had to kind of give your life a book title,
03:49I love this question because it goes straight to the essence.
03:52What would be the title of your book?
03:55I think if I can share something, if you go to any of the AI,
04:01my title of the book would be, depending on what the creative people would say,
04:07should actually be only busy people have time or busy people have time.
04:14And I've tried to say that who said this most recently, it comes out, it's me.
04:21Yeah.
04:22But the longer sentence probably was Paul Coelho in, I think, one of his books.
04:28But I'm surprised why this is not used as often as I use it.
04:34So tell us more.
04:35What does it mean?
04:35Only busy people have time.
04:37So when you asked me to do this, I said, yes.
04:41When?
04:42Yeah.
04:43I did not procrastinate.
04:45Right.
04:46If I have time and I could make time.
04:49People who do not appreciate time, I don't think do well.
04:58I believe it's our most valuable resource.
05:00Yes.
05:00Time and energy, actually.
05:01So time could even be saying that I want to give myself two hours every morning.
05:06It does not mean just work.
05:08So if you turn around and say that, oh, I don't have time for exercise, that's your decision.
05:15Right.
05:17I work so much that I can't give time to my kids.
05:23Okay?
05:24So do something exceptional.
05:27What is exceptional?
05:28The law of averages suggests that more mothers go to pick up their kids from school and less
05:38the father, and especially depending on developing countries or developed countries.
05:44I made it a point to either drop the kids or show up in their school when other fathers
05:51could not.
05:53Now, those are moments which people and kids remember even until today.
05:58or being that parent who would take the kids' friends out and take time for that or give
06:05them special.
06:06So if you take any aspect of life, whether it's work-related, giving back, giving back to your
06:14university or giving back to society or meeting your mother or father or parents, you can take
06:25out time if you know that time is there and only busy.
06:31If you're busy, you know how to utilize the time.
06:34Right.
06:34Even if you want to sleep 12 hours, you still have to know how to take that time out.
06:39I will always say that time is the same for everybody, right?
06:43When people say, I don't have time, it's basically a lie.
06:45What they mean really is, I don't prioritize this at the moment, because you always have
06:50a choice.
06:51So that's why busy people have time or only busy people have time.
06:56I would leave that to the creative side of the book or the agency to come out.
07:02But that's the essence, because the essence of how I have managed and I'm not here at
07:09my vintage of 60 plus to tell people who I was listening to this, what they should do.
07:15So if someone who is today in their 20s or 30s or early 40s and can get a few pointers
07:22from our conversation, that would be great.
07:26And that's why I think why you and I are doing this.
07:29Absolutely.
07:29But to come back to your story and your timeline, let's say we're always navigating between
07:36the past, the present and the future.
07:39What do you think are some of your three highs, let's say, and three lows through that timeline
07:46that really shaped who you are and who kind of create that cover of only busy people have
07:53time?
07:53Economics is one of them.
07:56And one shouldn't downplay economics.
07:59Yeah.
07:59Money is not the solution for everything, certainly not.
08:06But economics and money can solve some problems.
08:13So let's keep that in one bucket.
08:17But in the 80s, you know, we did not have some of the things like you say, I need to go find
08:25myself.
08:26Right.
08:26So getting capital punishment for those who don't know what that means, getting caned
08:40or slapped was okay.
08:42But no controversies, but the nuns and priests, they used to genuinely love us and teach us
08:51those fundamentals which, you know, shape a person's personality in terms of discipline,
08:57in terms of.
08:58So when I bring the subject economics of highs and lows, naturally when I struggled, and one
09:11of the things which I say publicly is I was 10 or 11 years old when my sister was getting
09:15married, she was only 17, 18, we did not have the money.
09:20And even coming from an aristocratic and noble family, I tried Googling that am I from a royal
09:26family?
09:26It says, no, no, you're not from a royal family, you're from a noble family.
09:30So I keep bringing that reference.
09:33So I lost my royalty because AI doesn't agree that I am from a royalty.
09:38Sorry, but I hate you for that, AI.
09:41So basically, we wore secondhand clothes, which were re-tailored.
09:47Now, why do I say that?
09:49Because it's okay.
09:51Right.
09:52And so you can say it's a low moment, but that low moment gave you something to look forward
09:59into a high moment.
10:02So there are experiences of wanting to do better in life.
10:08Right.
10:09And wanting to do better in life would be that another example is I went very late to graduate
10:16school when I was 34.
10:19And it took me about three days or four days in the mid-90s when windows and all were new
10:26in terms of application word.
10:28Now, I did not know how to do those things prior to that, and I was already in my mid-30s.
10:36When I realized that I could do these courses, I set up in the course of the last 30 years,
10:4510 free schools to just teach anybody, children, women, men, how to use the computer.
10:56And it was from a moment which I needed to do that because you could not go to a graduate school
11:04in the United States if you did not know how to type a document or make an Excel or how to go to the
11:10World Wide Web then, which was very slow.
11:12It was a dial-up technology.
11:14Right.
11:14So most of these highs and lows which I've had in life were an effect of when you have
11:22to do something, it's one thing you have that experience, but you do not do anything about
11:29it.
11:30Right.
11:30And you have an experience and you do something about it.
11:32Yeah, you have a low and then you transform the low into opportunity.
11:34So then what motivated you to do that?
11:37How did you do that?
11:39Now, naturally, you know, the more contemporary lows also came during COVID.
11:47I've done a whole series of conversations for Washington University, St. Louis on how did
11:53COVID affect me.
11:54And the thing is that it was a challenge which I could never understand.
12:00Nobody could understand.
12:01So in my business, if you were in the wedding dress business, you were dead because there
12:07was no wedding dress.
12:08So much uncertainty.
12:09Yeah, no more wedding dresses.
12:10And if you were in the lounging apparel business, you know, you hit the jackpot because that's
12:15what people wanted to buy.
12:18But what was difficult for me at that time was that you could be dealt with a hand.
12:24You don't know what to do.
12:25Because in supply chain, all the retails were closed and all the manufacturing was closed.
12:31And we supply chain executives needed to make sure that people with our skill set need to
12:38be still there, not to panic.
12:40But that costs you a lot of money.
12:42So there are highs, there are lows.
12:47Most of my highs and lows, I've reflected on.
12:54I have not let any of these incidents, the good ones or the bad ones, go without some kind
13:01of an outcome.
13:03And again, that gratefulness, kindness, these things do matter.
13:12They are real.
13:13And I just wish more people apply that.
13:16It doesn't make that I have like, you know, if one believes in hell or heaven or whatever,
13:23it doesn't mean that it makes me more pious or more, you know, got a one-way ticket to
13:28heaven or something.
13:29You know, I may be ending up in hell, I don't know.
13:31But the effort to do right, ideally, I would like to be in the processing center where people
13:38who decide they are in some certain faiths, there is a word for it.
13:42I've applied for that to be in the processing center to send people to hell or heaven.
13:46Hell or heaven.
13:47But the appreciation and the gratitude is key.
13:49It's key.
13:50It's like really introspection, basically.
13:52I mean, the name of the show to introspect every part of your life.
13:55So that's, you know, I mean, I forgot that was the name of the show, but that everything
14:00keeps coming back to that.
14:02And I think the other thing attached to that, and it can become controversial within your
14:08peer groups or within your family, is evolving, not changing.
14:13I think evolving is also correlated to introspection, the ability to learn and evolve.
14:21Yeah.
14:22I love it.
14:23So I am a big believer of that.
14:25Okay.
14:26On your way, on your timeline where you're, you know, creating time, so to say, who are
14:32the people that influenced you the most?
14:34So one is influence, and the other, which I want to discuss more fundamentally, because
14:42it's a key takeaway, is I had, I kind of started my work career a little after my 16th birthday.
14:53So between 16 and 22, I had one boss who actually taught me discipline.
15:00And he also taught me how to see something completed.
15:07So if A happens, B happens.
15:09And it sounds so simple.
15:11Follow through, kind of.
15:13So, but the thing is that if I need to get to this place where I had to today in Paris,
15:20it's not that I saw how long it was going to take me, five minutes before I ordered a
15:25taxi or Uber or...
15:27I did that in the morning, and I saw there are two ways I can get there.
15:33One will take 38 minutes approximately.
15:35One may take 43, depending on the traffic.
15:40So that's the kind of thinking which was instilled in me at a very early age.
15:47And I can't forget that, because at whatever challenges I was thrown in, I was, I used to
15:54first say, okay, if I need to get here or my work needs to get here, let's ask the right
15:58questions.
16:00So that process, whether I came from supply chain or I was a person of strategy, it start
16:08opening my mind.
16:09Now, it's not that I took every strength of that individual, but what that individual was
16:14good at.
16:15Secondly, going later into life, I had another boss, a tough boss, related to me, and that
16:25I'm through marriage.
16:26What I learned from that individual was what is institutional building?
16:32And it's a very wide term.
16:34So let's say it's Nina Ehrman today.
16:37So you could be me and all about you, or you can actually create an institution with what
16:45you offer, what you do.
16:47And in order to do that, what does a brand actually mean?
16:52And a brand could be your own positioning, a brand could be your company, or your brand
16:57could even be a charitable organization.
16:59But whatever your brand is, you take that brand or institution of yourself or your company
17:07you're trying to create, and treat it with all piousness as you would do something for
17:16a faith or something.
17:17So be honest about it.
17:20So do not dilute that.
17:22So institutional building ultimately future proofs for a certain time, your life, your business,
17:31or your brand.
17:33And I think this is a key takeaway.
17:36The third person was a gentleman who passed away, who was my chairman for a sudden, while
17:43his son works with us right now as a CFO.
17:46And he taught me about critical thinking.
17:52And some of the lines which I got from him is, whenever there's a situation, you should
17:59always say, is it urgent or is it important?
18:01Yes, I love that one.
18:02Yeah.
18:03And I'm a strong believer to analyze many things in life and say, you need to address not always
18:11the urgent things, but also the important things in life or in business.
18:15So these are such simple things, whether it's discipline of time, strategic thinking of
18:23piousness about your brand or your institution, and the third one being strategic thinking
18:31on any aspect of how.
18:33But for that, you have to be a good listener.
18:35Right.
18:36And then just generally for politics and all, I had another retired ambassador who was very
18:42learned.
18:42I usually go to him even today to ask questions when there is a political impasse or something
18:53when globally or locally or nowadays everything is connected.
18:56So there are these four people who...
18:59Who really influenced you and shaped you.
19:01In terms of, yeah, in how I look at things.
19:04So let's talk about your professional path just for a minute.
19:08So 16 years old, you started working and tell us a little bit about what you've built and
19:15the impact that created and the purpose it has for the people.
19:20So unfortunately, it's quite embarrassing that what I have built does not have...
19:26What I have earned from what I have built, I will not like to say my social impact projects,
19:32but like I told you something about the Computer Institute, but things which I've done in Bangladesh
19:37and Pakistan and some time back something in the south of India, but...
19:42And even giving back to my university.
19:45So I can't talk about that I'm doing a lot of good in terms of...
19:51I can say something that my company is called...
19:55It's a supply chain company.
19:57Potentially could be one of the top 10, especially in apparel and now DIY and hard goods and stuff.
20:03But we are not exploiting workers or children or anybody.
20:08But my clients, and I don't want to take any...
20:11They're usually the discounters or fast fashion and below.
20:15So we are bringing a lot of value, which gives people more disposable income.
20:21So there is a noble way to look at it.
20:23So you can buy a shirt or a sheet or a candle at a very affordable price all over Europe, all over the US.
20:30Affordable and sustainable.
20:32I'll come to the sustainable part because sustainable, we'll get off to another tangent
20:37because I'm big into circularity.
20:40So basically, yes, not only that, we create a lot of employment, but there's economics,
20:47but we are more or less what you would call the middle person.
20:51But it's driven towards value proposition in products.
20:55So I've glorified what I'm doing.
20:57But some people can criticize that, you know, you exploit cheap labor, you do things like that.
21:03Look, if someone can buy the stuff we make for some of the very famous retailers, even in this city,
21:11it gives them disposable income to maybe go and buy some, you know, better food or poulet or anything else.
21:18So I do contribute.
21:21And when it comes to sustainability, basically, we have pre-consumer waste, which is a company we have,
21:28which is called Cyclo.
21:29We also have created a fund for things.
21:33It's called Prestar, which has got everything to do with the planet, recycling.
21:37But we are also talking about traceability right now.
21:40So that's a second pillar of my entrepreneurship.
21:42It's all about circularity.
21:45And we are constantly looking at how you can take pre-consumer waste, post-consumer waste, even food waste.
21:53We're doing something with the university in Toronto with these two students who now actually have a good valuation
21:59at how to make fiber from food waste.
22:02Wow.
22:02So those are the nice things.
22:05I'm not doing that, that, you know, I believe in it.
22:09I have a son who believes in it.
22:10So that's what basically the economics is, the give back or the circularity is.
22:18And the problem with circularity or sustainability right now is our company is doing it as a corporate obligation
22:28or do they really mean it?
22:30Right.
22:31Up to now, 80% is corporate obligation.
22:33Corporate responsibility or...
22:34Yeah.
22:36So, but the thing is that at least there's an effort and my children are adult men.
22:42Your children are children.
22:44There's good happening for them.
22:46Right.
22:47So there's an effort.
22:48Let's talk about your children actually for a minute.
22:51How did you, you know, you became a father.
22:54Did that change a lot?
22:55I mean, you spoke about picking them up at school, being, you know, a present dad.
23:02Tell us a little bit more about the family.
23:05So my oldest is 37.
23:08So when compared to that, my grandson and your daughter are the same age.
23:13So I've given my age here.
23:15So I don't dye my hair.
23:18I still don't have any Botox.
23:19So I've got a lot of things to look forward to in terms of longevity.
23:27One of the important things for anyone who's listening to what I have to say, learn this
23:32word B-Y.
23:34Okay.
23:34Okay.
23:35So when you tell children that when I was young, my father or I did it this way, just
23:41start saying B-Y and they'll say, what's B-Y?
23:43Before you.
23:44Before you.
23:46Before your time.
23:47So before you, this is the way it was done.
23:50So it gets.
23:51The other thing is, don't ask questions like, how was school?
23:56If you say, I'm sorry, what I'm going to say, then did your teacher suck today?
24:01I'm sorry, it sounds a little American, but they'll respond to you.
24:05Yes.
24:06Or my teacher was not good today.
24:08So if you ask the obvious questions, first, you start a dialogue.
24:12The second thing, it's very easy.
24:13Anything your child likes, and this happened 10 years ago or 12 years ago, you can actually
24:19set in Google, in your search engine, any activity with that sports player.
24:23Or if it's one of the Kardashians, if they like something they choked, it will show up on your email that this event happened, whether it's a sports singer or a hobby.
24:37So you have now technology to converse with your children of things which they are interested in.
24:44Right.
24:45Don't talk about yourself.
24:46Talk to them about their interests.
24:48Then you can lead into the conversation which you really want to have with them.
24:54So we have better tools and how to use them.
24:59And I would like to bring in something which I told you passingly when we, that let's, as parents, as grandparents, let's not get intimidated by AI.
25:13Right.
25:14Because if you have the knowledge and you use the prompts right in asking AI what you need to, you will get a better answer that some of our younger generation thinks we're putting in short answers and not getting the right response.
25:31So it's enabling us to become more powerful.
25:34Right.
25:35Our generation can be much more powerful than our younger generation.
25:40Just because they may be typing things fast, it doesn't mean…
25:43And we're asking the better questions.
25:44Yes.
25:45That you will ask the question based on your intelligence, the AI is also learning.
25:50They are not learning based on their intelligence.
25:52This is extremely important and it translates back to children.
25:56You're talking about my sons, I have three sons, but I have two grandsons, I have one daughter-in-law, but one more on the way.
26:04So it sounds like it's pregnancy, but no, it's like I have a daughter-in-law on the way.
26:10I think dialogue is important.
26:12Yes.
26:13I also am a very strong believer, those people who haven't done it, they should start thinking about, is family forums or family…
26:23A semi-formal way of meeting once or twice a year in a neutral environment with your children, irrespective of age.
26:34And sometimes make one of your child a moderator and ask the parents not to pretend, not to be the authority at that time on the table or in the lounge chair.
26:48It should be like a peer-to-peer discussion, conscious connection.
26:51And there would be such wonderful things, such uncomfortable things which will come out.
26:57And I absolutely encourage people.
27:00Thank you so much.
27:02Maybe last question.
27:03What is it, the one thing that you want to leave the leaders with?
27:07You sense so much, but maybe one or two things that really, if you said, you know, this is the one thing you have to focus on.
27:14I think intellectual honesty.
27:20I didn't use the word honesty.
27:23Because honesty today, people say he's a very honest person.
27:28They don't say that about me, but what do you mean by very honest?
27:32So honesty on the financial side has now categories.
27:38Oh, I see.
27:39And he's little honest, he's not honest, he's very honest, he's extremely honest.
27:44You hear these things.
27:46But intellectual honesty is at least be honest with yourself in what you're about to do, what you're about to say.
27:54Be a good listener.
27:57Have the last words to speak in the end.
28:00So you've taken all the feedback.
28:02These are very fundamental things for me.
28:04There's another line which goes around when people are talking about me in companies that I always say I trust in God.
28:13Everybody else provides data.
28:15And basically I'm telling that to the whole team that just don't say things off the cuff.
28:20At least do your homework.
28:22Yeah.
28:23Do your research.
28:24Yes.
28:24And there are things, but I don't want to sound that way, what leaders should do, because I think my audience, if anybody is listening, is the younger.
28:37And I know you like the word authentic.
28:39I like the word authentic.
28:40Be fair.
28:42Yeah.
28:42If you can be fair, fairness will get you, can get amazing results for you.
28:49Wonderful.
28:49Thank you so much, Mounia, for being here, for sharing your story and for giving so much value to our audience.
28:56Thank you, everybody, for listening.
28:57Thank you.
28:57Thank you, Nina.
28:58And we'll see you.
28:58See you.