At the recent She Means Business session at KLGCC Mall, two inspiring speakers - Founder of Inari Jewellery Eva Woon and Founder of Lax & Lay Retreat Mardhiah Latiff - shared honest, impactful stories about fear, resilience, creativity and building businesses with heart.
From overcoming the fear of failure to navigating funding challenges, both founders showed how staying true to their vision can create brands that are not only successful, but deeply meaningful.
Their journeys prove one thing: when women build, communities thrive. When women lead, industries shift.
And when women mean business, they transform the game.
#SheMeansBusiness #SinarDaily #KLGCCMall #WomenInBusiness #WomenEntrepreneurs #SupportLocal #FemaleFounders #InariJewellery #LaxAndLay #EmpoweredWomen #Girls4GirlsMalaysia
From overcoming the fear of failure to navigating funding challenges, both founders showed how staying true to their vision can create brands that are not only successful, but deeply meaningful.
Their journeys prove one thing: when women build, communities thrive. When women lead, industries shift.
And when women mean business, they transform the game.
#SheMeansBusiness #SinarDaily #KLGCCMall #WomenInBusiness #WomenEntrepreneurs #SupportLocal #FemaleFounders #InariJewellery #LaxAndLay #EmpoweredWomen #Girls4GirlsMalaysia
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00:00all right all right good evening ladies and gentlemen welcome to she means
00:00:05business this is a celebration of female entrepreneurs and female
00:00:09entrepreneurship right here in the middle of this brand-new KLGCC mall
00:00:12brought to you by Sinar Daily, Saim W Property and Girls4Girls Malaysia my
00:00:17name is Philsasul Kifli I'm gonna be a moderator for today's session I'm the
00:00:21deputy country lead for Girls4Girls Malaysia and it's such a pleasure for me
00:00:25to be moderating today's panel featuring two amazing female entrepreneurs
00:00:29who are actually who have built successful businesses that you can all
00:00:34experience right here in this very mall after this so before we dive right in I
00:00:39just want to share a statistic that will set the stage a little bit for this
00:00:43discussion research from BCG or Boston Consulting Group has shown that female
00:00:50or women-led startups generate 10% higher cumulative revenue in the last five
00:00:55years let me say that again women-led startups globally have shared or have
00:01:01generated over 10% higher cumulative revenue in the last five years and in
00:01:07Malaysia alone there's a recent recent study that also showed that over 21% of
00:01:11SMEs in Malaysia are currently women-led now despite all this proven track
00:01:17record and amazing statistics women entrepreneurs still face significant
00:01:21unique challenges that includes funding so we see that globally less than 3% of
00:01:27female-led businesses earn global VC funding which is very very jarring and
00:01:32there's also a lot of a lot more women as compared to men who have a fear of
00:01:37failure when it comes to starting a business so today we're here to explore
00:01:41not just these challenges and these statistics but also the insights the
00:01:44breakthroughs and of course success stories from these two amazing
00:01:48entrepreneurs who have not only overcome these challenges but have taken these
00:01:52challenges and turned them into opportunities so let me introduce you to
00:01:56our inspiring inspiring panelists first we have Eva Woon right here she's the
00:02:01founder of Inari jewelry Inari and Eva Thrunari give a round of applause here so Eva
00:02:10Thrunari has created a brand with timeless designs and amazing amazing
00:02:13craftsmanship with her brand here I would just like to point that her store or the
00:02:20outlet the first correct me if I'm wrong first flagship outlet for Inari jewelry is
00:02:24here in KLGC mall so you can have a good good look after this session today I would
00:02:29just like to give Eva a minute or two to just introduce yourself and a bit about
00:02:33Inari perfect thank you so much so hi everyone my name is Eva and I am the
00:02:38founder and creative director of Inari jewelry so we are a demi-fine fine
00:02:43jewelry brand that focus on bringing light to artisanal craftsmanship so I
00:02:48think when I first started this I actually just came back from overseas I've
00:02:54lived overseas for many years and when I came back I realized that there are
00:02:57probably a lot of brands either fast fashion or the traditional brands that
00:03:02you see so I wanted to bring in more light into artisanal craftsmanship in the
00:03:08things that you wear daily and also provide better access to luxury for the mask
00:03:13so yeah that's how I started Inari jewelry three and a half years ago I spent
00:03:18nine years as a consultant traveling around London Singapore Thailand and
00:03:23finally back in KL with pursuing my dream with Inari thank you so much for
00:03:30sharing that Eva I am sure it has been an amazing and eventful three and a half
00:03:34years so far and it's only just gonna get better and better moving forward now
00:03:40before we dive into the questions I'd also like to introduce you to our another
00:03:44inspiring panelists we have Mardia Latif up here can you give a round of
00:03:47applause for Mardia Mardia's current is the founder of lax and lay retreat so most of
00:03:54your many of you may have known or may have been customers to her business here so
00:04:00lax retreat is a wellness sanctuary and it offers a very very good respite amidst our
00:04:05busy busy world and time today so I just like to also point out that lax will be
00:04:11opening it's the latest or newest outlet here is in KLGC mall itself so it's a very
00:04:16very exciting to see that Mardia could you please share a little bit more about
00:04:19yourself and lax and lay thank you so much for the introduction um okay so we
00:04:26started lax retreat back in 2021 at the height of the pandemic which is a very
00:04:33controversial decision to make but it worked out for us thankfully and we've
00:04:39since expanded into another brand called lay which is championing Malaysian
00:04:44wellness so we call it a Malaysian wellness concept because we think that
00:04:48Malaysian wellness is not well represented enough in retail so you see a
00:04:53lot of by wellness but there's nothing on Malaysian wellness so we really want to
00:04:59bring forth Malaysian heritage and identity through lay and then with Lex is
00:05:06female only also there's no female only wellness brand at retail as well so when
00:05:15I say retail is malls so to be able to offer this to women and provide a safe
00:05:21space for women has been such a privilege actually across like Sunday 85% of the
00:05:29revenue and the traffic comes from women though the industry is very woman
00:05:34dominated so even if you have husbands come as because of the wives so yeah I
00:05:40mean we managed to fill that gap and we're just getting started so we have to
00:05:47date three outlets and this is our fourth one so to Lex and to Lee and hopefully
00:05:52many more I think that like I'm very excited to share I think people talk about
00:05:58you always know about stories when people are very successful but then you don't
00:06:03really know like you know how they got there you know it's always in hindsight
00:06:07it's always in retrospect like oh you know when when you know it was really hard
00:06:10for us but like they can say that because they've already been there right
00:06:16like I mean they're already there so whereas we are in the you know in the
00:06:21thick of things you know we we are in the trenches right now we're growing and
00:06:25fixing things and entrepreneurship is akin to jumping off an aeroplane and and
00:06:33assembling your parachute along the way so there's a lot of moving parts to it and
00:06:38you have to make sure that you make more good decisions than bad I guess at the
00:06:44end of the day so I'm very excited to share this stage and I hope we can share
00:06:47a lot of stories thank you so much for sharing that Maria I like the very
00:06:55interesting analogy that you use with regards to entrepreneurship and how it is
00:06:59similar to jumping off an aeroplane and assembling your own parachute I think
00:07:03that's one very fitting metaphor analogy to be used here now what strikes me
00:07:08most about both of your businesses really is that not only are they
00:07:11commercially successful but I can tell everyone in the audience can tell
00:07:16really that they're also deeply personal expressions of your visions and your
00:07:20values and your interests right and this perfectly sets us up for our first
00:07:23question which touches a little bit on the barriers one of the top barriers
00:07:28that women face when it comes to entrepreneurship now there's another study
00:07:32that shows that amongst all the data that they've done in the UK and even in
00:07:38Malaysia 31% of women that they've interviewed cited fear of failure as the
00:07:43number one reason to not starting a business as compared to 21% of men now in
00:07:49more recent or more wider Southeast Asian lands the number is actually much
00:07:53higher we have 64% of women who cite fear of failure as your number one reason for
00:07:59not starting a business as opposed to 53% of men so I'm just curious maybe we can
00:08:05start with Eva first how did you I guess what was the idea or what was the point
00:08:10where you thought to turn this idea and this passion of yours into a real business
00:08:15and did you face any such fears as well and if you did how did you push past them
00:08:19to make it happen no matter what so a lot of people don't know this but Inari is
00:08:25actually my third jewelry business so people are always like you know overnight
00:08:30success is not overnight people always say oh my god have you heard of this
00:08:34brand and I'm like yeah they have been around for X amount of years right 10
00:08:37years 20 years but a lot of people only see what they see on social media and
00:08:42they were like oh my god this brand has an overnight success but as to what you
00:08:47were saying earlier right you don't see the struggle that people go through so for
00:08:50me Inari is actually my third jewelry business I was running to other
00:08:55beforehand and I was doing as a part-time while I was a full-time consultant
00:09:00and it actually took me about a whole year of therapy to really talk through
00:09:06the fear of failure what if right because in front of you there is a very
00:09:11clear pathway you know what you need to do the KPIs you need to hit in order to get
00:09:17the next promotion and you will know like the next bracket of salary that you're
00:09:20getting and you get to a certain point in life whereby you know you have
00:09:24commitments you have goals and suddenly your identity that people around you know
00:09:30you as makes it really really hard for you to say okay I'm gonna drop
00:09:33everything and I'm gonna go start a business because there's nothing that is
00:09:39promised you know when you start a business today it might be successful
00:09:43tomorrow you might be thrown up a you know a problem that you just have to
00:09:48solve right so to have to go through that mental I'm you know readiness to say
00:09:56okay I'm gonna take that risk it took me about a whole year and a lot of
00:10:00therapy session and crying I'm but I also knew that it came to a point where you
00:10:07know if I don't give this a go I know that I would have disappointed myself
00:10:13right I said sure I could have been a partner in a consulting firm I could
00:10:17have been very comfortable financially but then I would look back in my life
00:10:22when I'm 60 or when I'm 70 and I'll be like you know you should have done that so
00:10:27I told myself hey take two years go give it a go what's there to lose but to be
00:10:33fair it was a very hard transition mentally to get there and of course a lot
00:10:39of support from people around you I have to I have to be honest right not
00:10:44everyone is lucky enough to have a support system that can be there for you
00:10:48and that can say that go pursue your passion give it a go anything financially
00:10:54or anything else don't worry about it like I recognize that and I know that not
00:10:58everyone have that ability but it's tough you know I'm it's just a lot of mental
00:11:05and hard work when I say hard it's not of course it's hard work but it's also
00:11:11here your emotional I'm readiness I see heart work yes correct that's right so
00:11:20yeah thank you so much for sharing that and I really appreciate you being very
00:11:25candid and honest about your starting point or that struggle to some extent of
00:11:31starting what is your third business now thanks for sharing that a lot and I'm
00:11:35sure a lot of aspiring entrepreneurs or even experienced entrepreneurs can
00:11:39resonate who are watching this today Marty I'm just we're just curious as well to
00:11:42learn how you started lax and lay as well and similarly were there similar fears
00:11:48that you had and if there were what did you do to push past them okay so I think in
00:11:56entrepreneurship I guess like I've always held on to what Steve Jobs said they
00:12:02stay hungry and stay foolish because like no matter how much you think you know
00:12:07about something you don't you just have to do it you learn as you go I just don't
00:12:16believe in like you know preparing too much I mean of course like it's good to have
00:12:22preparation but I think that in business you just have to start you know you just
00:12:29have the courage to start and build along the way of course like I think in 2025
00:12:36it's very different so we started in 2021 where I think a lot of things were
00:12:42very different in 2021 you know the coffee industry was very different in 2021 the
00:12:47number one player was still Starbucks right you know you don't have lucky you
00:12:51don't have Zeus Zeus was around but like it not not at the scale of what it is
00:12:56now the barrier to entry in business in 2025 is a lot higher compared to 2021 so
00:13:03although we started during the pandemic we were very lucky that we started at a
00:13:07time when people were very risk averse people weren't ready to take on a lot of
00:13:11risks so we could negotiate better you know we're a bread and mortar business so we
00:13:17had to negotiate our rental and things like that so in a lot of ways it helped
00:13:22us you know to have a bit of like what's the right word for it was the PC word for it to
00:13:31have like the balls I guess to do it the guts to do it the guts the courage yes oh yeah
00:13:39that's not really like what I said was very passe as well like because I think you know to choose a term
00:13:47that is more gender neutral is very important also you know but anyway so yeah it's
00:13:55yeah there's a lot of also I feel like when when it comes to our business like
00:14:04the gaps were clearer I guess it depends like if you want to start you know a
00:14:09mobile phone company then of course you know you have to be cautious and you
00:14:14can't just like oh try and and build as you go but like with us because the
00:14:18players at the time were very the incumbents you know even now like they
00:14:23have been around 20 15 years so there's a lot of room for us to play you know
00:14:28there's a lot of room for us to make an impression to gain that virality you
00:14:33know to market and brand ourselves in a very different way so I guess it depends on
00:14:39the industry at the end of the day I think the best customer is yourself so
00:14:45when we build the business we built it for us so we are the customer so we know
00:14:50and we know that there's a lot of people who resonate I think you can say the
00:14:55same like this yeah I mean the best is to build something that is missing in
00:15:00your life you know you think you wish that something like this is around but
00:15:04it's not and then you know like you want to create something more likely
00:15:08somebody out there will resonate with that you know you're not alone in that
00:15:13pinpoint but of course you need to validate it so we validated it so before
00:15:19we opened before we sign at least agree a leasing agreement or anything we sold
00:15:23our membership for 19 ringgit and we sold 200 ringgit at 200 units of it so
00:15:30without having a shop just a website but this is 2021 I don't think I don't know
00:15:36but like 2025 I think people are a bit like whoa you know like there it's the
00:15:41consumer behavior has changed a lot so we were very lucky as luck is also timing
00:15:47at the end of the day so yeah I guess I guess you have to know you have to know
00:15:53where you are you have to know your industry you have to know how much room you
00:15:56have to play you know that you can yeah in in terms of risk so we're very lucky
00:16:03that we could get away with that so but also the readiness to take action when
00:16:08the luck arrives right because people always say there's two things to it luck
00:16:13might come your way but if you're not ready to take it you know then it's not
00:16:16yours so it's also both definitely your hard work as well thank you but yeah I mean
00:16:23it's it's a lot of things like I said like you have to be right more than you
00:16:29are wrong as long as there's a net right and a net positive you should be okay
00:16:35because you're bound to make mistakes that's actually a very very good point
00:16:40to make as well and I think both of you had really really strong points when it
00:16:43comes to just starting starting with good conviction yes but also starting
00:16:48with that good idea and that good resonance of what do I want as a
00:16:53consumer and what do I want to see as a consumer what would I put my money on and
00:16:56as a consumer I think that's a very very good point for a lot of inspiring
00:16:59entrepreneurs out there as well today despite the highly competitive market
00:17:04versus what it was three and a half or four years ago now I just want to touch a
00:17:09little bit I know you mentioned a little bit about how do you stay I guess
00:17:13competitive right in today's market but before we go into that just going still
00:17:17staying in that 2021-2022 timeline here again we heard earlier that less than
00:17:24three percent specifically 2.3 percent of female let businesses have received VC
00:17:29funding globally we know that this is a big and a unique challenge for a lot of
00:17:33female entrepreneurs so I think we're just curious to hear as well how did you
00:17:39both I guess first support or fund your businesses in the earlier days and were
00:17:43there any creative ways that you had to use to sustain knowing that the VC funding
00:17:49for women especially is highly competitive maybe Marty I can just share a
00:17:51little bit more as well okay so I guess if you're a first-time entrepreneur and
00:17:59you're new at entrepreneurship and business you have no choice but to raise
00:18:03your own funds right so it's the three F's friends family and fairies so fairies
00:18:09are people who are kind enough to you know invest in you but it's very difficult
00:18:16and it's very rare that a first-time founder can raise money so I think what
00:18:22comes with experience and being second third-time founders is the ability to
00:18:28raise capital so actually in business you're as good as your ability to raise
00:18:33capital technically because you need enough cash flow you need enough runway so
00:18:38unfortunately it wasn't the case for us you know we had to fork our own savings
00:18:43and you know apparent savings and things like that to create a proof of concept
00:18:49and especially in an industry where the capital expenditure is very very high it's a
00:18:55risk that you know you have to take that's why we validated the concept we
00:18:59knew that like okay this is enough traction and we acted on it you know and so I
00:19:07guess also to comment on like the thing that you said about access to venture
00:19:13capital I believe strongly that women entrepreneurs I just not getting a seat at
00:19:22the table also I think that I think that in terms of what we share with each other as
00:19:30entrepreneurs and just like in general how women speak to each other that's
00:19:35there's a bit of a wall I think I've seen men talk to each other about their
00:19:42businesses and they're very upfront about it you know they're like oh yeah I did
00:19:45this much you know my margins this much but for women it's still very like oh you
00:19:50know they're not comfortable disclosing anything and so I think there needs to be a shift in
00:19:57how we talk to each other as well as women you know I don't need to is it needs to happen bottom-up and
00:20:04top-down so it's like bottom-up meaning like you have to make sure that you have
00:20:08open conversations with other female entrepreneurs if you've raised money you
00:20:12know you got to share it with other entrepreneurs also female entrepreneurs
00:20:16especially and top-down of obviously also like big BC's and funds have to you
00:20:24know like give equity to female businesses right so like have separate
00:20:29funds that focuses on female-led businesses and things like that so there
00:20:33needs to be a lot of reform happening top-down and bottom-up so but I I still
00:20:42think that like there's a lot of things you can do that you do have a lot of
00:20:46agency and it starts with yourself also in how you have that conversation with
00:20:50other women and how to kind of support them and and and also you yourself have
00:20:56to be open to receiving you know whatever is coming and and you know like
00:21:01any tips or any criticisms and things like that so I mean like yeah it's not the
00:21:07most flattering thing to say right I mean but I do think that like it's it's a
00:21:12shift that needs to happen I don't know if you experience the same in your
00:21:17circles or I don't absolutely I think generally females want to make sure that
00:21:25your idea is solid and you have a good track record to show before you go and
00:21:30raise funds I think it's very normal in our nature but I also want to make a
00:21:36point right around how it's not just about and female gender inequality of
00:21:42course there might be a level of that involved but I also think generally maybe
00:21:46females tend to skew to its businesses that are more maybe like service
00:21:52related or traditional product related because I think that is what if you look
00:21:57at what a VC funds are actually funding right now it's AI back in the days is big
00:22:02tech right so generally I think majority of females tend to go towards like
00:22:08exactly what you were saying what's missing in my life the services the
00:22:12product that I need and we tend to go into that but then for VC funding they are
00:22:16technically looking at what can like 100x 500x my investment it's very revenue
00:22:23profit driven versus a traditional service setting yeah which is also why you
00:22:29know the numbers then skew towards hey actually more male are getting funded
00:22:33compared to females right so I think there's definitely that industry factor
00:22:38and the kind of like work that we're putting out there and the the the business
00:22:43that we start the nature of the business that we start sure if I were to
00:22:47start an AI company and I'm gonna go pitch chances of me as a female getting
00:22:52funding would probably be a lot higher than if I were to start a jewelry brand
00:22:55right because I know for a fact my business is not not VC attractive at all
00:23:01right because first high capital you need to put in and I'm like not investing
00:23:07into the cheapest of material right because we have to invest in gold we have
00:23:10to invest in semi precious stone precious stones and like you have to have a lot of
00:23:14capital and with jury I mean this is our very first retail store we took three and a
00:23:21a half years to get here to a lot of people maybe it's too like really fast to
00:23:26some people maybe it's a bit slow but similar to you like I also use my own
00:23:30savings at first I think there is also this notion of like I need to raise fun
00:23:35in order to build a business and in order to be successful I don't think that's
00:23:40true you always want to start off small first try and prove your concept right like
00:23:45when we started I used my savings I was lucky enough to have worked overseas so I had
00:23:50some savings sure people around you will be like oh did her parents fund her where
00:23:56did she get her money from right and everyone will have their own opinion but
00:24:00for me it doesn't matter the noise doesn't really quite matter just focus on
00:24:04what you do right so we started off with I mean I started off with my own
00:24:08funding to all the amounts of savings that I've had from my work and I
00:24:13actually started off online friends and then we started going to pop-ups and I
00:24:18remember in my very first pop-up someone was telling me like oh I think
00:24:22your price point is too high because there will be jewelry store next to you
00:24:27that's selling at 30 ringgit or 50 ringgit and then there's our stuff that's like
00:24:30150 and above right and that's where a lot of education in the material and the
00:24:35artisan craftsmanship comes in but you have to take a chance right and based off of
00:24:40the the feedback that you get you know from our customers from real people
00:24:47buying yourself similar to what you did right people paid before you actually
00:24:50even had a store then you know okay you have got something that you can start
00:24:55working on and you start building proof points right as you make money even
00:25:00though it's a small scale you receive more money you reinvest into the business
00:25:04and you grow that way I think too often people tend to say I need to raise money
00:25:10in order to start something I don't think that's true I think that's just an
00:25:14excuse I mean again it depends on what kind of business you're starting of course
00:25:19so I'm talking from a product perspective I think there are a lot of
00:25:22like minimum viable product that you can start off with you like we didn't start
00:25:28doing fine jewelry until we opened a store here right I used to like pack
00:25:32unpack carry everything myself right I would I still scrub the floor myself
00:25:37because what the mindset is you need to be willing to work hard and you need to
00:25:43be resourceful in the way that you want to grow your business and that is where
00:25:47like you're saying building from the heart is very important like something
00:25:52you need yeah that's really really strong points from both of you I really
00:25:56really like how you mentioned that you do have to be resourceful to put it very
00:26:01very frank so no matter even if I think just to jump on your point of no matter
00:26:06your industry whether you are in the traditional industry or even in an AI
00:26:09tech industry where there are more chances of being funded by VCs you still
00:26:14need to have that resourceful mindset and identity because you'd never know
00:26:18what's gonna happen tomorrow or the next day with the market with anything
00:26:21that's going on in your market or beyond that that will affect your business no
00:26:25matter what and to your point of you mentioning why there's also a barrier
00:26:29for a lot of women to get support financially or beyond due to the fact
00:26:35that there's this support supposedly wall between founders it's actually a very
00:26:39very resonant point where I think we can all agree that a lot of times we were
00:26:44raised as women that the table is a very very limited there's a very very limited
00:26:48seat at the table or on the table so I think what we want to also break that
00:26:54mindset of today is if that if the table is already full we are not here to shun
00:26:59anyone from sitting at the table we're here to just add more chairs to the table
00:27:03maybe build a longer table maybe build a longer bench and then that's where as
00:27:07women founders as female founders we can all collaborate and work together and
00:27:10grow together as well so really really great points both of you then I just like to
00:27:14touch back and circle back on since both of you have started your businesses for
00:27:19at least three and a half four years since about after kovat times as you've
00:27:24mentioned earlier when you started at pop-ups there were people comparing
00:27:27price points between your between Nari and competitors even with flags I'm sure
00:27:33you started with a 19 ringgit membership but has since of course had to
00:27:36increase pricing with all the different offerings and services that you have
00:27:40today how do you then balance staying true to your vision staying true to what
00:27:45you believe in as a founder as an entrepreneur versus maybe adapting to
00:27:51something that feels commercially safer so was there ever a time where you had to
00:27:56find a balance between okay this is what I believe in as a founder I believe in our
00:28:00price point I believe in our vision and our aesthetic and everything that we
00:28:04stand for but also having to kind of balance that with what's more marketable
00:28:08what's more viable to or palatable to the market out there maybe Eva if you'd
00:28:14like to take this on first when you start a business you would realize that
00:28:18suddenly everyone want to give you unsolicited advice I don't know if you
00:28:23experience it suddenly you'll get like a DM hey have you seen this jury what
00:28:28they're doing oh by the way I think you should do this oh your price point is too
00:28:33high I would not pay this amount right suddenly everyone is an expert in your
00:28:36business but ultimately you know that you know your business the best you know why
00:28:42you started it what's the intention behind it I think you gotta follow your
00:28:48heart right I'm I don't know if a male founder would say that but I believe in
00:28:53like following my heart of course the numbers you need to run you need to make
00:28:57sure it's you know it's it's viable because ultimately it's profit and minus law
00:29:02sorry revenue minus cost equals profit right and if your profit is a loss how
00:29:08are you gonna pay your team how are you gonna sustain your vision right so you
00:29:12have to balance practicality of like running a business and your passion and
00:29:18what you believe in um I think when I first started I was very affected by
00:29:23people sending me things and I know it comes from a good place right I know they
00:29:29care I know they're excited I know you know that they want the best for me but
00:29:36what they don't know is that sometimes all of these comments just make you
00:29:42question yourself a lot am I doing the right thing oh this brand is doing this
00:29:46thing I should run something like that too but ultimately this is where leading
00:29:50from your heart is super important you have to be a practical business person for
00:29:54sure but when you lead to your heart with your heart you will realize when to put
00:30:00your blinders on and when to see about the noise it doesn't get easier you just
00:30:06get better at saving out what is noise versus what is good advice that you can
00:30:13take to execute because you're not trying to copy someone else you're trying to
00:30:18build a business that is true to what your vision is unless you are out there to
00:30:23just copy and paste someone else's dreams then you know make sure you have
00:30:29the you finesse the ability to balance practical business logic and you know
00:30:35your vision yeah thanks for sharing that and I think that's especially one good
00:30:41thing that it's not just for women right but for any entrepreneur out there with
00:30:44any kind of challenge that they are facing as long as you lead with your heart and
00:30:49as long as you know that what you're doing serves your target audience well at
00:30:54the end of the day that's all that matters and that that's all that should
00:30:56matter at the core of it right so my idea is similar similarly I know that
00:31:01obviously currently you don't have 19 ringgit membership prices anymore so how
00:31:05was that I guess was there any reaction from the audience or your target
00:31:09audience when you say had price increments or when you introduce new
00:31:13offerings that were a bit more on the luxurious side of things how do you balance that
00:31:17vision of this is what lack stands for it versus this is what the customer wants
00:31:21and what we have to to some extent serve I guess it comes down to knowing your
00:31:27customers so the avatar of your customer you have to know it so well I guess it's
00:31:36down to also brand positioning at the end of the day there always there will
00:31:40always be cheaper offerings out there but it's down to your market
00:31:45positioning and you have to stick by it I think that it's very very common for
00:31:52people to like oh you know that you know a competitor is reducing their price so
00:31:56you're like or not even your competitor not even you're a direct competition is
00:32:00this like you know any Tom Dick and Harry just like reducing their prices and you
00:32:04get like oh my god you know you cannot you have to know your customer and you
00:32:10have to know that that's what a market is you know there's luxury there's premium
00:32:16there's you know moustache there's mass and knowing where you are in that
00:32:23landscape is super super important so you don't get straight by all these
00:32:28distractions you know like one day another player choose to like you know do
00:32:34this type of pricing and then you're like oh I should do it too you know so
00:32:37there's you eliminate that kind of formal factor so I think knowing your
00:32:44customer well also I do think that who you target when you start out versus who
00:32:50you target when you're growing could be different people so and that kind of
00:32:56trade-off you have to balance as well yeah and I think what you have to
00:33:04realize is the compass like your north star should always be your brand
00:33:09positioning and your ideal avatar and and you know once you have that you don't
00:33:17don't get distracted you know don't get formal so he's just just stay on the
00:33:22course yeah so I guess like that's it of course like yeah you have to make data
00:33:28driven decisions also you know if it sells well you have to realize oh maybe
00:33:34people see value in it or you know the pricing or whatever like that that's for
00:33:40you to decide but there's also a lot of downsides to listening to customers I
00:33:46think you have to be very selective and at the end of the day yeah you welcome
00:33:50feedback but you have to decide which feedback you want to listen to and that
00:33:56is on you as an entrepreneur to know so yeah yeah 100% right and on this is saying
00:34:02that I always follow which is if you're for everyone you're for no one right for
00:34:06sure for sure that's that's very very strong if you're for everyone you're for
00:34:12no one essentially so it's almost like you're not serving could you who you
00:34:16intend to serve there's no target audience or there's no persona as what
00:34:20Mardia mentioned that's a very very interesting quote as well that's
00:34:23actually very very moving now from what I'm hearing there's a lot of so this
00:34:27particular I guess question or element of being sweet to make decisions that
00:34:32will benefit quote-unquote everyone or benefit your target audience benefit you as
00:34:37a founder as an entrepreneur benefit your team that seems like one of the many
00:34:42many challenges that both of you would have to face as an entrepreneur
00:34:46much less or much more what more is a female entrepreneur there's also recent
00:34:52recent stats where we hear a lot of female entrepreneurs being a very risk
00:34:55averse because again there's just this heightened sense of fear of failure fear
00:35:01of not doing good enough fear of what if I make the wrong decision so a lot of
00:35:04women tend to be much more risk averse when it comes to making decisions in
00:35:08business but at the same time or in that same vein a lot of women who do make
00:35:12such tough decisions actually end up making more decisions that will end up to
00:35:17prop to be profitable for them and your businesses in the long run so in that
00:35:22length or in that hand I'd just like to ask both of you here what's a smart or
00:35:27risky move that both of you have had to make over recent years since you started
00:35:31your businesses that turned out to be great that turned out well that turned out
00:35:36in your benefit but it felt very risky at the time very scary at the time just to
00:35:40share a little bit more about how you overcome that challenge as well and yeah
00:35:44and how it paid off in the end maybe Mardia we can hear more from you first
00:35:48yeah every decision you make is a risk so I do not know where to start with that
00:35:55question so it is isn't it yeah it's it's it's actually like starting a
00:36:02business right hiring your first employee opening a store what else every small
00:36:07decision is a risk unfortunately was there a specific decision that maybe
00:36:13felt unconventional or unpopular at the time that paid off unpopular is a very
00:36:19strong word but unconventional sounds safer okay I could think of one when we
00:36:28first started out there was always this question of like should we start small as
00:36:34in like either way we still have to open a break-and-mortar location right we
00:36:38still have to open a store but like in terms of size do we go smaller do you go
00:36:42big you know what kind of services do you want to offer and then we were like the
00:36:49decision was and the thought process was we can't make an impression if we're
00:36:53small you know so we were like let's just go big because not a lot of players are big
00:37:02enough in the market right like they can't do you know X number of services you
00:37:08know they don't have you know that many therapies like it's always small small
00:37:12smaller locations and yeah so so we did within a specific square footage so we
00:37:20were like if we are just a small outfit we know that either we are small but we
00:37:26scale fast right so it's like you know your your scrap footage is small but like
00:37:32you tend to open like four outlets a year or something that's in the pipeline we
00:37:38didn't know what the pipeline was so we were like let's make an impression and
00:37:43just open big one so that was that was gut feel purely it wasn't based on like you
00:37:50know we when we did the website where we wanted to get prospective customers we
00:37:55were like oh let's just put you know many pedis massages whatever like you know
00:37:59just go crazy right but then like you know obviously we were considering you
00:38:06know back and forth like oh maybe maybe not have it be a woman's only spa you know
00:38:12which thank God the decision was to stick to a woman's only spa but you know for many
00:38:18reasons including market differentiation right so yeah the decision was like go
00:38:26big or go home you know we could make an impression if we were right that was a
00:38:29good bet and it's a bet we are taking with this outlet as well so this is even
00:38:35bigger so it's true by the way thank you women want multiple services under one
00:38:43roof so these are the hypothesis that you need to make in business and you have to
00:38:47validate them so we when I first started out when we first started out we listed
00:38:52down like all the possible hypothesis right like we think that this is what
00:38:57the market wants we think that this is what customers are going to pay we think
00:39:00that these are the services blah blah blah so we had a list of like hypothesis
00:39:05that we were ready to validate I guess that's a good place to start also and
00:39:11then you realize like oh you know if I do this you know if I create a
00:39:15website blah blah blah then I could kind of eliminate and answer some of these
00:39:20questions that they you know that I have about the business so yeah I guess like
00:39:25that's like a very good place to start yeah so so it's safe to say that we're
00:39:33we're still doing what we first set out to do and we're even expanding on that
00:39:39concept so but but having said that we're also always thinking like maybe we
00:39:48should do smaller outfits you know now that we have two big ones maybe what
00:39:53people want is smaller ones and have many of them so you know these things kind of
00:39:58grow with you and and you're supposed to always ask the same questions expecting
00:40:02different answers so that's also true in business right just ask the same
00:40:09questions but only in different angles yeah thank you so much for sharing that I mean go
00:40:15big or go home that is I mean unpopular again is a word that we use quite loosely
00:40:19here but a very unconventional decision I think a lot of people myself included when
00:40:25we saw luxury was opening post cove it locked down it was a very a fairly big outlet and link
00:40:32KL in the heart of the city the first thought that came to mind was wow this girl has guts this
00:40:38founder whoever she is has guts to open in the middle of a pandemic now before we go into our
00:40:43final few questions I think we have a question from the floor right there from this amazing
00:40:47lady here thank you very much ladies very happy to hear you guys eloquently explaining business to
00:40:54women I have a question for both of you both of you mentioned just now that you use your own
00:41:01funds right to start up right at what point did you get additional funds or did you not get additional
00:41:09funds to continue all right and have you achieved ROI already written in on investment yes thank you thank
00:41:20you so much for sharing that question perhaps Eva if you'd like to take on take that
00:41:24on first yeah yeah um so when I started I think actually for the longest time in my business I
00:41:30kept it as self-funded up until I think when this store the opportunity to take on this store happened
00:41:39and I remember asking my husband do you think I should take out my savings and open a store and I think
00:41:46that was when he was like don't be crazy you need to be a smart businesswoman right and at that time we
00:41:52were too small or too short of a time frame of being a business in order to get a bank loan because in
00:42:01order for you to get a bank loan you need to be minimum three years and we haven't hit three years
00:42:05yet and we know VC funding is not an option I also like you know I also like cracked my head and I'm like
00:42:13okay should I just take the risk but that would be foolish I think for me at the very least at that point
00:42:19in time thinking of like using my own money to roll right because you have to balance business
00:42:26practicality with ambition because imagine this if I were to pull out all my savings to start off
00:42:32something like this you know I would probably be really worried about putting food on the table I
00:42:38would be really worried about oh my god am I making the right decision I will be very emotionally like skewed I'm
00:42:45I'm not I'm not making the right business decision and therefore I actually then went out and like
00:42:51pitch for funding from like you say friends and family you know people who would believe in your
00:42:57vision people who had known me for many years and that was actually where I decided that okay in order
00:43:03for me to start a sustainable viable business it is now the right time for me to get investment because
00:43:09you don't want to get an investment for twenty thousand and then say I'm gonna get that twenty thousand to do
00:43:13this and give away X amount of my company right that doesn't quite make a lot of business sense so
00:43:19you need to kind of reassess what do you need the funding for how much do you need is it the right
00:43:27timing and what are you gonna use that money for a lot of people try to raise funding to cover a bad
00:43:34decision that is bad way of raising that's the bad reason to raise funds right but if you are raising funds
00:43:41to then say I'm gonna use this funds to create a channel that three four X five X ten X my business
00:43:48for growth purposes that is when it's smart to go raise funds for yourself at which point did you decide
00:43:57that you'd reach out for external investment after how many years um so that was close to three years um so
00:44:05two years eight months ish um I'm just gonna be really honest I was crying to my husband and I cry a
00:44:12lot throughout this whole journey of starting my business and I was crying to my husband and I said
00:44:16why does it feel so hard right no matter how much money we make it feels like I don't see the cash at
00:44:21all and it's because we are a product heavy business and every time we grow cash is involved because you
00:44:28want to grow to consignment you need to buy more products you need to pay your artisans money you want to pay
00:44:35fair we just right um and you know that means paying salary and as you grow people are asking
00:44:42you hey do you do bespoke I can't take bespoke from the coffee shop all the time so I need to have a
00:44:48studio now we have four people you know some part-time some full-time where am I gonna house them I can't
00:44:54house them in my house forever right so you get to a point where you're like okay I'm pushing the
00:44:59limits on all the area that I'm functioning in and I'm getting good feedback okay people are buying at
00:45:05this price point right people keep coming back what's my average order value what's my average
00:45:11returning customer right all of these data kind kind of adds up and you know that okay this is the time
00:45:20yeah I don't know if that helps yeah but I guess it it depends on you know different people have
00:45:28different sort of what they can borrow from the bank whether it's a household income that is you
00:45:36know becomes the dependent piece of information that's used for that or whether it's you you yourself
00:45:41whatever funds that you know that you have generated right so in terms of like the quantum of what you had
00:45:50asked or rather you requested external funds from what what was the quantum like for your business
00:45:58right like you like see if you spend a hundred thousand this year so then after three years then
00:46:05what was the quantum that you you borrowed from the bank the loan if you understand what I mean sorry
00:46:11just to clarify so it's your question what is the projected ROI or ROI was one ROI is just a simple
00:46:18straightforward question after how many years do you achieve ROI return in investment return on
00:46:24investment right it means you see a profit after how many how what is that duration I'm just curious
00:46:31and the other is when you ask for loan then what was that quantum against the value of your business
00:46:39like is it two times three times the value of your business four times five times all right thank you for
00:46:46sharing that uh ladies I'm not sure if that's PNC if that's a shareable but yeah leaving it to both of
00:46:51you if it's PNC that's totally fine so for us we achieved ROI in the second year of business so I mean
00:47:05we will net positive secondary of business so but we reinvested it into opening more outlets it's very
00:47:16capital intensive so it's very hard for you to see the money until you scale to a certain level right so
00:47:25basic math is like you know you have your you have your HQ cost and then you know all your outlets will
00:47:33contribute to your HQ cost right so if you have one outlet then there's only so much room for you to
00:47:40wiggle you know there's not a lot of wiggle room so unfortunately in our business we have to grow to a
00:47:49certain degree so that we could pay ourselves a better wage also you know instead of like paying
00:47:56ourselves very minimally things like that so I mean there's cost to growth so you should you know like
00:48:05you do you be profitable a bit and then like you grow and then you lose money and as you grow until
00:48:13you reach a point where you're profitable again so we are at a point where we're losing money now
00:48:17because like we have to reinvest in new outlets and things like that oh it's all right yeah if all's oh if
00:48:36all's okay yes yeah sorry I was just about to see reinvesting is is for me it's not a loss it is rolling your
00:48:45money so that you can make more yeah so good on you very happy to hear because it's not easy to see
00:48:52or turn a profit enough for you to even roll it back right but I was just really curious because what
00:48:58you mentioned just now about um taking loans I think a lot of people maybe especially women up to a certain
00:49:05extent um uh bulk away from that because you know I don't want to hutang anybody right I don't want to be
00:49:13in-depth right even though it's for business I think that's something that women struggle with
00:49:18but um it's it's more of a it's more of um who we are maybe you know um you want everyone to be happy
00:49:28and you know so that we can move forward happy and such uh is this that uh it's not always as easy
00:49:35as it seems and um people need to understand at which point do I seek help because yeah a lot of
00:49:42people just say I'll just use my own money but not everyone is as lucky as you know maybe you ladies
00:49:48are to be able to turn a profit and continue that business and roll that money uh further right and
00:49:53and it could be like you use your funds and you don't do well and you lose your funds you lose your
00:50:01savings right so having gone through and having um asked for external that's why I'm sort of asking
00:50:08on behalf of everyone at which point you know after two years then or mention after three years
00:50:14right just a time frame so that people that are okay if I've been doing this after two three years
00:50:20maybe I should be asking for funds from a bank so maybe I can just share my thoughts on that right
00:50:26I don't think there's a templated answer or as to when you should go get fund just because you know
00:50:32you might have asked for fund earlier then you know that's the right thing for me I might have
00:50:37asked for funds just very recently so I don't really know I mean of course I have my projected
00:50:42ROI and everything but you won't know because it's a projection right so I don't think that is a
00:50:48stock standard answer or a template that you would say like oh this is the right time for me to
00:50:54go raise funds um and I think the other thing as well uh to mention is there are actually a lot of um
00:51:02uh it's not called loans uh it's not sponsorship either grants yes there are actually a lot of
00:51:11grants out there that could be your first point of option right because you know they are there for
00:51:19a reason and a lot of the grants are supporting um Malaysian businesses there are a lot of sustainable
00:51:24grants out there female grants out there so I think you need to be resourceful in terms of where you
00:51:30look for the money and what is the right timing um and also what is the right form of funding you're
00:51:36getting so I think only you would know because you know your business the best can I add to a very good
00:51:43point that you mentioned I think women primitively we want to feel safe I think that we always seek for
00:51:50safety um and we're sort of uh you know wired that way right so that's why I get where you're coming
00:51:59from in that like you know women are always more risk averse right so and um and I think that like
00:52:09that is not necessarily a good thing I think that if you look at the biggest companies in the world with a
00:52:17lot of cash they still borrow money you know borrowing money is not about you know it's not
00:52:23just about being that it's about being able to serve you know the the loan being able to pay back
00:52:29right it's you're only as good as your ability to pay as soon as you can pay back then you're fine
00:52:35you know it's a risk worth taking but I guess like I guess we are sort of wired into thinking like oh
00:52:41you know like I don't want to take risk I think taking loan is not really that risky you get what
00:52:48I mean like if you're growing a business then that's something that you have to do yeah and I think to
00:52:54your point as well just that a word of risk scares a lot of women out there because risk is equates is
00:52:59equated to bad right whereas risk is something that maybe we have to reframe ourselves not just as
00:53:05entrepreneurs but as women in general that risk is necessary for growth no matter what that growth will look
00:53:11like within or beyond business yeah so thanks for sharing that I think and I think also it's worth
00:53:17saying that there's a lot of pain involved in growth a lot of pain involved in success you have to be ready
00:53:26for that pain you know if you want to keep playing it safe you will be safe but you know then probably the
00:53:35outcome is going to be safe also so I think that like these kind of things I guess as women we need
00:53:44to be more open about right and I and I really like the questions because I get what you're saying is
00:53:51there needs to be a shift in that too in terms of like taking on risk
00:53:56thank you for sorry thank you for answering that question you hit it hot uh spot on right because uh
00:54:09it's just giving advice to the younger generation I'm actually older than you guys so I kind of know what
00:54:15you you guys are talking about uh and but I I want to like simplify it for the youngest yeah the younger
00:54:21ones right so they have to see that yes it and we were using very big words like risk averse women are
00:54:29risk averse number one risk will always be there if there's no risk then what are you doing what are you
00:54:38trying for number two bad things will happen it will you just have to know how to manage it and be
00:54:46expect you expect it and you know how to manage it number three I think if we all could be real with
00:54:53each other tear down that mask of perfection and made up and proper everything and be able to speak
00:55:03each other like real for real I mean I'm talking for you like real here right so that really helps
00:55:11as well because um you know women if they come together regardless of what you do I've seen it
00:55:18happen here as well we're unstoppable because we can go into details we can follow through and we can
00:55:25drive strategy as well not seeing men are not useful but I'm seeing women are just as good and can be
00:55:32even better but um just wanted to you know let the kids really see uh um our real selves right not
00:55:41like a put on like yeah of course she's so pretty she said let them see your real selves and they will
00:55:49respond and and really take it in thank you so much thank you so much to you as well thank you for the
00:55:55amazing questions that you shared and your words really really mean a lot and it does bring us to our
00:56:00closing segment here the message that we do have is that women when we stand together especially in
00:56:06such a cutthroat entrepreneurial market like what you both are in right now women are unstoppable to
00:56:12be to be very very simply is what you've said so I guess just to share uh one final closing remark
00:56:17from both of you it's quite a loaded closing remark I'm gonna put out there because the closing remark
00:56:22that I do want to ask um for you both to share is I guess what's one piece of advice that you would give
00:56:28your entrepreneurial self from three and a half four years ago maybe even older uh just to close off
00:56:36this discussion who maybe Eva you'd like to give a start first I think um having spent three and a half
00:56:44years in entrepreneurship I realized that it is not um um a marathon is it it's not a sprint it's a marathon
00:56:54yeah um people always think that there's an end goal you're trying to chase but what I realized in
00:57:01this three and a half years is that it is a journey you learn so much about yourself every single day how
00:57:07you treat people around you how you treat your customers how you make decisions when you're stressed
00:57:12out because you're stressed out a lot right um and that is what you need to realize that this whole
00:57:19entrepreneurship journey it is a journey for you to learn about yourself who you truly are
00:57:26and unless you're you know prepared to put in the grit to really learn about yourself um you know maybe
00:57:35sort of like think probably first because I won't say it's easy I think it's actually probably one of
00:57:42the hardest thing I've done and I still think it's so hard every day right but what keeps you going
00:57:47is that you realize there's a lot of learnings that comes out of this whole journey yeah wow
00:57:55entrepreneurship is essentially a journey about you discovering or rediscovering yourself really
00:58:01as a person as a woman and as as a person as an entrepreneur essentially
00:58:06martia what about you what's one piece of advice you'd like to give if you could turn back time you'd
00:58:10like to give yourself day one envisioning lax retreat what would that be
00:58:14you there's a lot of things that you i mean okay i always say this even when you do something you
00:58:24love and i love what i'm doing there will always be things that you don't like you know about it
00:58:31and those things that you don't like if you don't face them um you know like if you don't face them
00:58:39they and you sweep it under the rug it will come back and haunt you so um you have to face it i think
00:58:48it's as basic as that you know like i really don't like the finance side of things you could only
00:58:57you know ignore it for so long until you finally have to like i gotta learn how to you know
00:59:03we do my accounts yes do my accounts read the pnls and things like that so i mean i'm still struggling
00:59:09with that you know and um but it's something that you just have to face right and there's so many of
00:59:18so many of those kind of things that like in a big scale small scale everything like there's so many
00:59:25things that you're not gonna love about what you love you still have to do it you still have to show up
00:59:30you know and um i think like not not a lot of things surprised me i when i guess because i didn't
00:59:39have expectations also i came into it very hungry and very foolish so um there was not a lot of things
00:59:48that like surprised me i was like oh and you know i was very grateful that i was foolish also had i
00:59:55known everything that i know now i probably wouldn't have done it so in a way it's great
01:00:01it's great to be to be foolish you know it's great to take risks um you gotta be a daredevil right um
01:00:09because it's crazy entrepreneurship is crazy it's not for everyone so um yeah and i think that like
01:00:16right now my focus is like okay how do we survive the first five years you know because most businesses
01:00:21fail after five years and you know so things like that i guess um yeah so you just have to face it
01:00:29head on and um problems every day yes firefighting every day firefighting and as i guess that famous
01:00:40nike slogan just do it just face it just do it then thank you so much ladies and with that we wrap up
01:00:46our session for she means business can we give a round of applause to these two amazing panelists
01:00:51here thank you so much thank you so much eva thank you so much martia now as we close this thank you
01:00:57so much for sharing very very candidly very honestly as well about your journeys from three and a half
01:01:02or four years ago to where you are now ladies again just want to remind all of you here in the floor
01:01:07today that both of these outlets and both these businesses are actually available here in klgc mall
01:01:13so whether or not they're open i believe blacks will be open officially in a few weeks or so yes
01:01:18so please go and support them you can check out in our jewelry right after this and just remember
01:01:24especially as women the title she means business is not just about having more women in the
01:01:29entrepreneurship space it's actually more so about having that profound impact when we have more
01:01:34successful more inspiring more courageous women taking up spaces that would have been unheard of or
01:01:41untaken of prior and i think these ladies these two ladies here are an epitome of what true courage
01:01:47means in which courage does not mean the absence of fear it means shaking shivering maybe going to
01:01:53therapy for a year maybe going through a lot of losses and cries and doing things that you that you don't
01:01:58love but still doing it and facing it head on anyway so thank you to you both for showing us what true
01:02:04courage and entrepreneurship really really means thank you so much ladies and thank you so much to
01:02:09everyone on the floor we hope all of you have an amazing amazing weekend ahead thank you
01:02:15thank you
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