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00:001's for sorrow, 2's for joy, 3's for a girl and 4's for a boy,
00:205's for silver, 6's for gold, 7's for a secret never told,
00:36Devil, Devil, I defy Thee, Devil, Devil, I defy Thee.
01:06Good morning everybody, we had storm Agnes yesterday, that brought some strong winds and some heavy rains towards northern and western areas of the UK, but Agnes is no more, it's going to be a much quieter day for many of us actually, we've got some sunny spells around this morning.
01:23It was actually a really miserable morning, you know, there was no sunlight breaking through, it was quite bleak, but it had been really windy the night before.
01:31About 7 o'clock in the morning, a guy in the photography WhatsApp group that we were part of, dropped a picture in the group of Sycamore Gap Tree, but it was on its side.
01:44It was a very pixelated picture, you couldn't really see it very clear, and I was like, that's got to be a Photoshop, you know, and all the lads in the group were like, nah, can't it be real, can't it be real?
01:55I don't think it's real, buses are fly up, and we're just basically headed straight to the tree, you know.
02:01I knew from the military road, you could get a good sight of the tree side on.
02:20I pulled up on the military road, got my camera, my big lens out, aimed it at the tree, I was like, oh my god, it is, it's down.
02:31We're headed up to the tree, it was about 8 o'clock-ish.
02:42When we got to the tree, it's just like gobsmacked, absolutely gobsmacked.
02:46I documented it all, and I recorded a video, you know, put it on my social media platforms, I was like, look, this is actually happening.
02:57Absolutely shocking.
02:59Destroyed forever.
03:02Really sad, isn't it?
03:03I remember thinking, it's as if somebody's went along with a still-so and cut the time bridge down.
03:13The sorrow around, you know, just the sadness, it was horrendous.
03:17I remember going on a social media, and it was just the most sickening, sickening feeling.
03:29For astronomers like me, a sycamore gap was particularly special because it's so photogenic, with the symmetry.
03:38Seeing the tree lying there, dead, it just felt, it felt like, oh, it was a murder.
03:58My initial thought was, has the storm taken it down?
04:01But when it was hinted very, very early on, no, no, no, someone's actually, some people, someone's done this.
04:10You can see the markings on the tree, you can see all this stuff.
04:14It completely changed.
04:21Who in the right mind would do this, you know?
04:27You're talking about psychopaths.
04:31Something awful's happened up at Sycamore Gap.
04:33We've just managed to stand this up in the last few minutes.
04:35The famous tree at Sycamore Gap has been cut down.
04:39It's like stealing joy, that tree was ours.
04:41I'm sitting in a car park, weeping.
04:43All that remains is a stump.
04:54It was palpable, the shock in the community.
04:57I saw it on Facebook.
04:59I remember seeing the pictures, thinking, it's a joke, is it April?
05:06Disbelief, anger.
05:08You literally had your head in your hands going, I can't believe this is happening.
05:13You just don't understand why.
05:15It was such a bizarre thing to happen.
05:21We just couldn't work out why anybody would want to do that.
05:24It had to be something malicious.
05:27It would have to have been cut down because some brain-dead idiot thought it would be good fun.
05:32I was at work and I started hearing across the office that the tree had been felled or had fallen over.
05:48No one knew what had happened.
05:52So 999 calls were coming in.
05:54Nothing to be a police.
05:55How can I help?
05:56I've been shocked as he reports that the tree at Sycamore Gap has been cut down.
06:01The tree has been felled overnight.
06:03It's all like the social media.
06:05Apparently someone felled in the tree at Sycamore Gap.
06:07I don't know if you're aware.
06:08I'm not aware at all.
06:09It will be on the national news tonight.
06:11I guarantee it.
06:14Yeah.
06:15Yeah, just to confirm, there's a variety of folk taking photographs.
06:19Police officers were dispatched to identify what was happening and in essence, get that scene controlled.
06:25If you could just clear back a tad, just so we can gather as much evidence as we can.
06:29Okay, thank you very much.
06:33Right, I cannot see any property lying about.
06:37I cannot see any oil.
06:38I can't see any footprints.
06:41Obviously, every man and his dog's trailed through here this morning.
06:44There has been spray paint, sprayed around the base.
06:49There's a clean cut three quarters of the way through.
06:52There might be a local tree surgeon, to be fair.
07:00In this case, the victim is, for want of a better word, the tree, really.
07:05So, straight away, it's criminal damage.
07:10Someone has unlawfully cut that tree down.
07:13It was damaged to Hadrian's wall as well.
07:15I work in the major investigation team, and the majority of the incidents that we do with are homicides, criminal damage.
07:23There isn't generally something that crops up in any of my investigations.
07:26And my experience around trees, felling, anything like that, is pretty much zero.
07:32So, I identified Detective Inspector Callum Meagle, because he worked in the rural crime team.
07:39I never thought that I'd be in a position like I am today, talking about a criminal damage, because that is what it is.
07:53And the fact that somebody had chopped down the sycamore gap tree.
07:59For me, it's an attack on people's, the way people live.
08:05The sycamore gap means an awful lot to a lot of people.
08:19So, the tree was planted about 130 years ago by a local landowner, in a dip between two escarpments, right next to Hadrian's wall that was built centuries ago.
08:29To people of the north-east, it's been somewhere that has been visited for an awful long time.
08:40Families would make a yearly pilgrimage.
08:44People would go there and propose and scatter ashes.
08:53The tree has been through so much.
08:55World wars, storms, so you always believe that it's going to be here forever.
09:05It did feel like a friend.
09:07I know it sounds silly, but it felt like it was a gift.
09:11Just for you.
09:13So, yeah, it was really special.
09:15For sure.
09:21I wanted to find out who was responsible.
09:25Crime scene investigators were dispatched.
09:35When I reviewed the photographs, I could see a wedge and hinge method had been used to fell the tree.
09:42And I had a few puzzled faces as to, uh, how do you know that?
09:47Which I explained that my father was a forester, and so I understood the technicalities.
09:56So the wedge, it's like a big bit of cheese that you see in a supermarket.
10:01You know, it's that shape.
10:02And it is cut out on the side that you're going to fell the tree and gets placed to one side.
10:11Our crime scene managers searched around the tree itself.
10:19However, we weren't able to find it.
10:22So we were minus the wedge.
10:27I thought, hmm, this is interesting.
10:30If you're going to do something of this sort of significance, you would take a trophy.
10:37And the most obvious section would be the wedge.
10:40So I made the decision not to release the fact that the wedge hadn't been recovered.
10:47I wanted to keep that quite tight in the investigation.
10:50If we were able to locate that wedge, we could find the person who has committed this crime.
10:58BBC Radio Newcastle.
11:01Police were all over the hillside.
11:08It was like a murder scene.
11:13It's part of the fabric of our community.
11:16But today, a tree...
11:17We had every TV, news company asking for interviews,
11:22to the point of where I didn't know which one was which.
11:27This grand old sycamore fell.
11:30We thought someone was playing tricks on us, and then we saw the news.
11:32It's just mindless vandalism.
11:35Whoever's done this needs to do some serious time, like serious time.
11:38The video that I put on the social media, the post hit like over two million views,
11:42which was just crazy.
11:43Because I only had like a couple of hundred people following us.
11:48And that's when all the rumours started to fly about.
11:52What do you think of it, that someone could do that?
11:54My guessing is maybe a disgruntled local farmer,
11:57who don't like tourists, or just someone who's very sad.
12:00As soon as a case hit media,
12:04I knew that we would then generate intelligence.
12:10Nothing but a police, how can I help?
12:12Um, the lad who's local to the area,
12:15he's always joking about felling the tree at Sickerbocker.
12:18And I don't know why you would want to do that,
12:20because it's probably the most iconic tree in Northumberland.
12:23Now I've got a feeling it possibly could have been to him.
12:30One of the first calls made to police
12:33put forward a young lad from the local area,
12:38out of genuine concern.
12:39You know, it's just trying that he jokes about doing it.
12:43You know, it's a shit thing to do, I think.
12:48I remember wondering,
12:50could this have been committed by
12:52somebody younger in years
12:54who hasn't seen the potential significance of his actions?
12:58So, we need to act quickly
13:02and make sure that we don't lose pieces of evidence.
13:05Now the keeper would a-hunting goal
13:14and under his army carried a ball
13:16all far to shoot the merry little door
13:18among the leaves so green-o
13:21Jackie boy, master, singing well, very well
13:23Hey down, ho down, derry, derry down
13:25among the leaves so green-o
13:27To my hey down, down, to my ho down, down
13:30Hey down, ho down, derry, derry down
13:32among the leaves so green-o
13:34Now the first door he shot
13:37Hull Whistle is the closest town to Sycamore Gap.
13:40There's the Pennines on one way
13:42and then there's the Roman Wall behind you.
13:45Jackie boy, master, singing well, very well
13:47Hey down, ho down, derry, derry down
13:49Edge of the world kind of place, I think.
13:51Well, like the frontier, the northern frontier.
13:56Among the leaves so green-o
13:58I run a 14-bed holiday home.
14:03I run the local Facebook page for Visit Hull Whistle
14:06I'm a local councillor on the town council
14:08I volunteer in the charity shop
14:10and I also work one day a week in the shoe shop
14:13and I'm supposed to be retired.
14:15In Hull Whistle, a lot of people depend on tourism
14:21and lots of people come to the area to visit the tree.
14:24Two jobs, yeah. Brilliant, thank you.
14:26Four and eighty-neigh.
14:27There's not much other than cattle and sheep and tourism.
14:31Flash!
14:32It's taken more Gap.
14:33It's just a tree on Hadrian's Wall.
14:35Nobody ever thought about it, he talked about it or nothing
14:37until Kevin Cousiner came to do the film there.
14:40I am home! Woo!
14:42The tree looks absolutely fantastic in the film.
14:45It's unbelievable now that the tree has gone.
14:50People come into the pub at least a dozen times a day
14:53and they'll literally say,
14:54can you tell me where the tree is?
14:55The one that used to be in Robin Hood.
14:57We sell more Sycamore Gap than all of the other beers put together.
15:00We have a wine called Under the Sycamore.
15:03We have Sycamore Gap Gin.
15:05And then I have a tree which lights up as well.
15:07So, yeah, anything but Sycamore.
15:09Everyone just wanted to know who it is,
15:14who's done it and why.
15:18Northumbria police have confirmed
15:19they've arrested a 16-year-old boy this afternoon.
15:23The tree in Sycamore Gap is...
15:24All of a sudden, I heard that a young 16-year-old kid
15:28was being arrested.
15:30And he was from around this local area.
15:33We literally couldn't believe it.
15:35We couldn't understand why.
15:39Once the rumour started flying about,
15:42about the 16-year-old lad who was arrested,
15:45everybody started like a witch hunt.
15:46I remember going on social media
15:47and it was quite, like, pretty nasty stuff.
15:52And I was thinking,
15:53do you want to make sure this is actually correct?
15:55Like, because this could ruin a kid's life.
15:56Everybody focused on him and it was going to be him.
16:06And I was like, you've got to think about it.
16:08How can a 16-year-old go up there
16:10and chop down that tree?
16:12It can't be him.
16:12Searches were conducted
16:20and also he was interviewed.
16:22He categorically denied
16:24being responsible for the criminal act.
16:27He provided an alibi,
16:29which checked out,
16:31so he was quickly ruled out of the investigation.
16:33I don't know the 16-year-old
16:42and I know that it has had a negative effect on him.
16:46He was totally innocent.
16:51At that point in time,
16:53given the nature of the information
16:54that was passed to the investigation team,
16:56you have to have investigated that properly
17:00because that's justice.
17:04But the next arrest,
17:06we needed to get it right.
17:16There is anger and dismay in Britain this morning.
17:20A tree that has stood in northern England
17:22for hundreds of years
17:24has been chopped down
17:25and police say
17:26it was a deliberate act of vandalism.
17:32Within 24 hours,
17:36it had gone from local
17:38to national
17:39to international,
17:41global news.
17:46The pressure
17:46that subsequently came with that
17:48is quite considerable.
17:50The tree stood in Northumberland
17:53in the north end of England.
17:55I needed to go up to the scene
18:00and search for potential evidence.
18:04So myself and Becky, the boss,
18:06travelled up together.
18:10It seemed quite surreal
18:12when I looked where the sycamore gap is
18:14and it wasn't there anymore.
18:15That's when the gravity of what had happened
18:18started to sink in.
18:26We'd parked up in Steel Rig Car Park,
18:29which is the car park adjacent
18:30to where you would start the walk
18:32towards Sycamore Gap.
18:33The first thing was looking at which route would they have taken,
18:39what direction would they have come in,
18:41what would they have been carrying,
18:42would it have been one person,
18:43would it have been more than one person that was involved.
18:45I could see straight away
18:52the stump was laid bare.
18:54I knew that as soon as a cordon was taken down,
19:03people were going to be walking on the stump.
19:05So what I wanted to do
19:06was maintain the integrity of that first cut.
19:09So the best way that I could do that
19:11was to take a section of the entire stump.
19:14I think people were quite shocked.
19:23You know, it had already been cut once
19:24and now the police were coming
19:26and they were taking sections away.
19:30Actually having the surfaces
19:32that were cut on that night,
19:34we would have the best possible way
19:35of matching up tool marks
19:37to potential chainsaws.
19:38It was a scene that provided
19:44quite significant challenges.
19:47It's a very, very rural location.
19:51There's plenty of sheep,
19:52but unfortunately there are no cameras.
19:55There are no witnesses.
19:59We had a Twice Brood Inn
20:01that was as close to the scene
20:05that we were going to get.
20:08The police started coming in,
20:13looking at CCTV
20:14because we have it angled right around the pub.
20:20This camera looks across our car park
20:23and you can see Sycamore Gap
20:24over here in the corner.
20:25You couldn't quite see the tree
20:27because it's just in the dip,
20:28but you didn't see the military road
20:30right outside the front of the pub.
20:32The cameras do have automatic night vision as well.
20:34We had a little look,
20:39but I couldn't see anything.
20:41So he just downloaded everything he needed.
20:44We were like,
20:44imagine if there's someone
20:45parks in our car park
20:46and you see them take a chainsaw out.
20:48I'd be like, oh my God.
20:54So we're at a point now
20:56where we were really limited
20:58with what we had.
20:59We needed assistance
21:01from the local community.
21:10After the 16-year-old was released,
21:13there was lots of talk in the town
21:15about who and what and why
21:17and lots of theories
21:19of why people had done it.
21:20It was a social media dare.
21:27I thought, you have got to be joking.
21:32Everybody was like naming people.
21:34I think it was Bob
21:35who lives down the road.
21:36I think it was him.
21:37I think it was him.
21:39Just because they have a chainsaw.
21:43The thing is,
21:44most people around here
21:45have got chainsaws.
21:47I've even got a chainsaw.
21:50We've all got chainsaws.
21:55You know some of your police
21:56how can I help?
21:57I've just seen someone
21:58make a bit of an odd post
21:59on Facebook
22:00that shared a meme
22:01about cutting the tree
22:02down with a butter knife.
22:04Shared a post about
22:04cutting it down
22:05with a butter knife.
22:06Not about specifically
22:07cutting the Sycamore Gap
22:09tree down
22:09with a butter knife.
22:12One of the kids
22:13in my lesson today
22:14was talking about
22:16cutting down the tree
22:16the other day.
22:17I think he was your team
22:18and I was like,
22:19I'm worried.
22:19I'm worried
22:20things are jerking out.
22:21Yeah.
22:25Welcome here.
22:25Please, can I help?
22:26I've got a postal suspect
22:27who's got a motive.
22:28We shall pass on to you.
22:29I've got no evidence.
22:31A local farmer
22:32believes they've got
22:34the name of the
22:34postal suspect.
22:36Right, okay.
22:37Have you got any details
22:37for the farmer?
22:38We had quite a number
22:39of names being put forward
22:41and there was
22:43a recurring name.
22:45There's a chap called
22:46The name I've been given
22:48is
22:49He's getting
22:50chucked out of his house.
22:52Part of the evidence
22:52against him has come
22:53from the National Trust
22:54and who owns the
22:55Sycamore Gap tree
22:56National Trust?
22:59When you've got somebody
23:00being put forward
23:01on a number of occasions
23:02it will always
23:03put your interest.
23:05As a local living
23:06in Holtwistle
23:07everyone is naming
23:09one man.
23:12He had knowledge
23:14and previous experience
23:15and he also had
23:18a real motive
23:19to potentially
23:20commit this criminal act.
23:25That night
23:26on day two
23:27the second arrest
23:28was made.
23:30Certainly there was
23:31a potential grudge
23:32with the National Trust.
23:34Is this revenge?
23:38A second person
23:39has been arrested
23:39in connection
23:40with the felling
23:41of the Sycamore Gap tree.
23:42We've just been told
23:43that a man in his 60s
23:44has been arrested
23:44by Northumbria police.
23:47People are starting
23:48to think that
23:49somebody did this
23:50who had a grudge
23:51against the National Trust.
23:55Everyone believed it.
23:56Everyone in the local area
23:57started to think
23:58OK, that makes sense.
23:59Maybe that's what happened.
24:01I hope they throw the book
24:02at whoever did it.
24:03We don't know who.
24:04We wait for some news.
24:08During the interview
24:09he provided an account
24:11of his whereabouts
24:13which we were able
24:14to confirm.
24:15He categorically denied
24:18any involvement,
24:19any knowledge.
24:20He said he wasn't fit
24:22enough to have committed
24:24this offence.
24:25so I was satisfied
24:27that he wasn't involved
24:29and it was decided
24:30that he could be released.
24:34Come to the Chi
24:36with me, Malone.
24:39Within 48 hours
24:40we had interviewed
24:42and bailed two people.
24:43We had names,
24:45we had people
24:46being put forward
24:46but we really
24:47didn't have anything
24:48solid.
24:53As it happens
24:54it was just
24:54complete hearsay.
24:56You know,
24:56it wasn't true at all.
24:58I'll sing the case today.
25:02I got fed up
25:03of listening to
25:04it could be this,
25:05it could be that.
25:06You need concrete proof
25:07and I thought
25:08the police
25:09they need to get
25:10their act together.
25:14The eyes of the world
25:15were looking
25:15at this investigation
25:16and what was
25:17Northumbria police
25:18doing about
25:19identifying who
25:20was responsible
25:21for cutting
25:21this famous tree down.
25:24Gun to the Chi
25:25with me, Malone.
25:27It was a hard
25:37period of time.
25:39We really didn't
25:40have anything
25:41to go on.
25:43I do get
25:44very invested
25:45in what I do
25:46because if I lose
25:48interest
25:48it would be a case
25:49that, you know,
25:50was never solved.
25:52But I was never
25:53going to lose
25:53interest in this.
25:57so I went
25:59back through
26:00the calls.
26:03He's written
26:04I told me
26:04how can I help?
26:06I'm phoning
26:07regarding the
26:08cut down tree
26:09at Sycamore Gap.
26:12There was
26:13one witness
26:16who was
26:18in his
26:18camper van
26:19on that night.
26:26I was parked
26:27in the nearest
26:28car park
26:28called
26:29Steel Rig
26:29Car Park
26:30all night.
26:33As far as
26:33anybody knows
26:34I've been
26:35the only vehicle
26:35here with
26:36no plausible
26:37explanation
26:38so I kind of
26:39don't want to
26:40be accused
26:41of cutting
26:42the tree down.
26:46When he woke
26:47up in Steel Rig
26:47Car Park
26:48to find quite
26:48a number
26:49of people there
26:49he contacted
26:51Northumbria police
26:52but the
26:55information
26:56he was able
26:57to provide
26:57was
26:58quite key.
27:01When I turned
27:02up in the
27:02car park
27:02there was
27:02nobody here
27:03and I turned
27:03up about
27:04ten,
27:04half ten
27:05and obviously
27:06I went
27:06to sleep
27:07but one o'clock
27:08in the morning
27:08I was woken
27:09up by a vehicle
27:09leaving the
27:10car park.
27:11All I know
27:17is that it
27:18was a
27:18four by four
27:19of some
27:19description.
27:20I know that
27:21just by hearing
27:21it start up
27:22because I'm a
27:23mechanic.
27:28I didn't hear
27:29it turn up
27:30but it woke
27:31me when it
27:31left at one
27:32o'clock in the
27:33morning.
27:35That
27:35information
27:36meant that
27:37we could look
27:38at the
27:38twice-brood
27:39in CCTV
27:40footage
27:40at that
27:41specific
27:42time.
27:47Round about
27:47one o'clock
27:48in the
27:48morning
27:48you can
27:49see
27:50a set
27:51of
27:51lights.
27:55There's
27:55a vehicle
27:55travelling
27:56along
27:57the
27:58military
27:58road
27:59in
28:00a
28:01westerly
28:01direction.
28:04Almost
28:04an hour
28:04earlier
28:05at
28:0623.55
28:07hours
28:07there was
28:08a set
28:08of
28:09lights
28:09that had
28:10travelled
28:10in an
28:11easterly
28:11direction.
28:15In the
28:16background
28:16you can
28:17see
28:18the
28:18vehicle
28:18turn off
28:19the
28:20military
28:20road
28:21heading
28:22up
28:22the
28:23minor
28:23road
28:23and
28:25out of
28:25sight.
28:31Up
28:32that road
28:32is
28:33is
28:33the
28:34steel
28:34rig
28:34car park.
28:45So that
28:46gave us
28:4763 minutes
28:48and that
28:49would give
28:49enough time
28:50to walk
28:51from the
28:52steel rig
28:52car park
28:53to the
28:53gap
28:54fell the
28:55tree
28:55return
28:57and drive
28:58away past
28:59again.
29:03So now
29:04we can
29:04use
29:04other
29:04CCTV
29:05opportunities
29:05to start
29:06looking at
29:07the
29:07potential
29:07journey
29:08into the
29:08area.
29:15However
29:15in October
29:17everything
29:18changed.
29:18we
29:23received
29:24an
29:24anonymous
29:24tip-off
29:25identifying
29:26two
29:26individuals
29:27Daniel
29:28Graham
29:29and
29:30Adam
29:30Carruthers.
29:31We'd never
29:32heard of
29:32those
29:32individuals
29:33before.
29:36The
29:37tip-off
29:37made
29:38mention
29:38of the
29:39fact that
29:40these
29:40two
29:41lads
29:41had
29:42retained
29:42a
29:44section
29:44of
29:44the
29:44tree.
29:47The
29:48fact
29:48that
29:48a
29:48piece
29:49of
29:49the
29:49tree
29:49hadn't
29:50been
29:50recovered.
29:51That
29:51information
29:52and that
29:52detail
29:52wasn't
29:53known.
29:53I think
29:54at that
29:54point
29:54that's
29:55when I
29:55realised
29:55actually
29:56there's
29:57something
29:57significant
29:57here.
30:00You
30:00think
30:01right
30:01okay
30:01what do
30:02we
30:02know
30:02about
30:02them
30:02what
30:03do
30:03we
30:03need
30:03to
30:04know.
30:06Daniel
30:06Graham
30:06was
30:07on
30:07Facebook
30:08as
30:08being
30:09a
30:09ground
30:09worker
30:09and
30:10quite
30:11obviously
30:11was
30:12involved
30:12in
30:13tree
30:13surgery.
30:15I
30:16was
30:16expecting
30:16that
30:17they
30:17would have
30:17been
30:17from
30:17the
30:18community
30:18however
30:19both
30:20individuals
30:20reside in
30:21the
30:21Carlisle
30:22area
30:22which is
30:23quite
30:23strange
30:24there's
30:24quite a
30:24distance
30:25from
30:25Carlisle
30:25across
30:26to
30:26the
30:27Sycamore
30:27Gap
30:27tree.
30:32I
30:33remember
30:33taking a
30:34phone call
30:35from
30:35the
30:35intelligence
30:36unit
30:36he said
30:37I've
30:37ran
30:38the
30:38vehicles
30:38associated
30:39to
30:40them
30:40across
30:41AMPR
30:41and
30:43he
30:43says
30:43there's
30:44a
30:44Range
30:44Rover
30:45that's
30:45registered
30:46to
30:46Daniel
30:46Graham.
30:48and it
30:50travels
30:50from
30:51Cumbria
30:51into
30:53Northumbria
30:53police
30:54area
30:54and then
30:55an hour
30:55and a half
30:56later
30:56travels
30:57back out
30:58again
30:58and does
30:59exactly
31:00the same
31:00route
31:00but in
31:01the
31:01reverse
31:02spoke to
31:06the boss
31:06and said
31:07fasten
31:07yourself
31:08in
31:08I think
31:08we've
31:09really
31:09got
31:09something
31:09going
31:10here
31:10and it
31:10was at
31:10that
31:11point
31:11I
31:11raised
31:12them
31:12as
31:12suspects
31:13I
31:17wanted
31:18to
31:18arrest
31:18simultaneously
31:19to
31:20prevent
31:20any
31:20collusion
31:20between
31:21the
31:21two
31:21Daniel
31:25Graham
31:26lived
31:26in a piece
31:27of land
31:27in a
31:28caravan
31:28there were
31:31lots of
31:31outbuildings
31:32it was
31:33quite a
31:33chaotic
31:33location
31:34are you
31:37going to let
31:37these dogs
31:38in the
31:38kennel
31:38are they
31:39all right
31:40they're
31:40friendly
31:41oh that's
31:43all right
31:44is it
31:44Daniel
31:45Daniel at
31:50this time
31:51okay I'm
31:51going to
31:51arrest you
31:52on suspicion
31:52of criminal
31:53damage
31:53okay
31:53we want
31:54to interview
31:55regarding
31:55the
31:55damage
31:55okay
31:56yeah
32:01I'm
32:01not
32:01going to
32:02let me
32:02colleagues
32:03stay
32:03in
32:03what you
32:04put some
32:04clothes
32:04on
32:05it's just
32:07when we
32:07arrest you
32:08we can't
32:08leave you
32:08on your
32:08own
32:09but I'll
32:09step out
32:10and I'll
32:10let you
32:10thing
32:10I
32:11led the
32:17team that
32:17went to
32:18Adam Carruthers
32:19Adam Carruthers
32:22address was
32:23in an old
32:24airfield
32:24I woke him
32:26knocking on
32:27his caravan
32:28window
32:28it was
32:29certainly not
32:30something that
32:31he was
32:31expecting at
32:32that point
32:32in time
32:33for them
32:36to be
32:36travelling
32:36to custody
32:37was a
32:38relief
32:39okay the
32:44time now is
32:441555
32:46it's the
32:4631st
32:47of October
32:482023
32:49Daniel
32:50are you
32:51responsible
32:51for
32:52criminal
32:53damage
32:53namely
32:53felon
32:54of a
32:55tree
32:55at
32:55Sigmund
32:55Mo
32:56Gap
32:56no
32:56no
32:57Dan
32:58can you
32:58recall your
32:59movement
33:00on that
33:00night
33:00Daniel
33:04Graham
33:04Would you recall if you had done anything out of the ordinary?
33:08I think if I'd cut that tray down a bit, I'd turn it on to you today.
33:11I might work where I was that day.
33:13I didn't cut that tray down, so on that day, I didn't do anything exciting.
33:17Anything exciting last night or the night before.
33:20I couldn't tell you what I'd done three days ago, four days ago.
33:22Couldn't have a fucking clue.
33:24That's for a month. I honestly don't know.
33:26Daniel Graham seemed quite calm and quite ready to answer questions.
33:35Even in his posture when he was being interviewed, he was very laid back.
33:39He was quite... almost arrogant.
33:50Adam, do you understand what you've been arrested for?
33:53You do.
33:55So, you've been arrested on suspicion of criminal damage.
33:58Yeah, I do.
33:59And it's in relation to the tree that was cut down in Sycamore Gap.
34:02Yeah, yeah.
34:03In Adrian's Wall.
34:04Yeah, yeah.
34:05Do you have any knowledge about who's responsible?
34:08Well, none at all.
34:11Like, I just had a new baby on the 15th of September.
34:14And my partner shared a caesarean, so I was, like, around helping her.
34:19So, between this period, the 23rd and the 28th of September,
34:23would you have left Cumbia?
34:25I wouldn't have thought so.
34:31Adam was non-committal.
34:33His response was quite often, I wouldn't have thought so.
34:36You weren't in that area?
34:38No, I wouldn't have thought so.
34:42It's quite an unusual answer.
34:44Either no, you weren't, or I don't think so.
34:48I wouldn't have... I wouldn't have thought so, like...
34:50Erm...
34:53I wouldn't have thought so.
34:54No.
34:55What about a lad called Dan... Dan Graham?
35:01I know Dan.
35:02You know Dan?
35:03How do you know Dan?
35:05It was quite weird how we were going on, to be fair.
35:07Erm...
35:08Erm...
35:09The first is to, er...
35:11Let me tell you, it was his Dad's Land Rover.
35:14Before my dad died, my Dad's Land Rover, the wedding was fucked.
35:17So I'd put it into Adam, he'd get it welded up.
35:19So that's kind of a real minor, and I never said, she'd picked up.
35:22That's pretty much one of the people I see.
35:24He's got it every day.
35:25What is it?
35:26The only personal log of him, like...
35:28To good friends?
35:29Does Adam come to yours, do you want to his?
35:31Do you want to his?
35:32Sometimes it comes to mine, sometimes they go always...
35:35Does Adam stay all about at your place?
35:37No.
35:38It's like I said I've puffed her or something like that.
35:40No, I'm just asking if, as a friend, he may stay.
35:42No.
35:43Definitely not.
35:44Do you ever stay at this?
35:45No.
35:46Thanks.
35:52I was overseeing and managing the interviews,
35:55and then also, at the same time,
35:57receiving updates from the two scenes.
36:01So, Daniel Graham's property is a piece of land
36:06with a large static caravan,
36:08and some outbuildings filled with all manner of agricultural machinery.
36:20The Black Range Rover was immediately secured.
36:31The vehicle was transported to Northumbria Police,
36:33where we could conduct a forensic analysis,
36:34to see if we could identify further evidence.
36:38Have you got any reason why a Range Rover would be in that vicinity?
36:41It's all alone.
36:42Would anybody else have access to that?
36:43Yeah.
36:44Yeah?
36:45Yeah?
36:46Yeah?
36:47Yeah?
36:48Yeah?
36:49Yeah.
36:50Yeah.
36:51Right.
36:52Do you keep a note of who's had it?
36:54The search has continued, and within some of the small outbuildings,
36:55there were chainsaws hanging on the wall.
36:57The search has continued.
36:58The search has continued.
36:59Do you want a chainsaw?
37:00It's going to be free.
37:01Yeah.
37:02Yeah?
37:03Yeah?
37:04Yeah.
37:05Yeah.
37:06Yeah.
37:07And I'm sorry.
37:08Yeah.
37:09I'm sorry.
37:10I'm sorry.
37:11Yeah.
37:12Yeah.
37:13Yeah?
37:14Yeah.
37:15Yeah.
37:16Yeah.
37:17Yeah.
37:18Yeah.
37:19Yeah.
37:20Yeah.
37:21The search has continued.
37:22hanging on the wall obviously nasty questions do you want a train so
37:28which I would be able link those to the fallen as the tree would you have access to that if you
37:39had a bigger saw they were fairly short bar saws they didn't have the sufficient blade length for
37:49chopping down the sycamore gap tree it is tree workers tree work yeah yeah yeah I worked for a
38:07few people to be fair so I'd just like help out there with a mechanic sort of thing and if you
38:13had any training and train sort of bring chainsaws or anything if I'm honest I'm not really keen on
38:20them to be fair because they are nasty to be there Adam was trying to push himself away from any
38:30capability and use of a chainsaw yet his friend stated that actually he was really quite handy
38:37with a saw you start to think we're on the right tracks here
39:00at that point in time detective constable Kim Reid had been seconded onto the team and I asked Kim
39:15to prioritize the devices seized from Daniel Graham and Adam Crullers was that your phone yeah yeah
39:23it's not too long Adam had what we would refer to as a burner phone it was a very small phone with
39:30very limited capabilities and they've both said you'll never find anything on my phone what about
39:36the password for it to have a password normally people don't provide pins to the phones if they
39:42have something to hide so when Dan give his pin code I had a bit of a sinking feeling and think
39:48they've got nothing to hide they're willing to help you that's my livelihood that's fucked my life
40:07coming in these days it's fucked my life because no I don't use lots of my fucking name I'm depressed
40:11now I've been locked up that's my business books probably by the time I got up here and I have to
40:16get on tonight I'm going to be the center of the fucking first because mine needs tied to this shit
40:20when the search had been concluded we failed to find anything that could clearly tie Adam into
40:34using chainsaws or being involved in that sort of industry there was nothing else significant found
40:40on either of the searches and also unfortunately we failed to locate the wedge
40:48have you traveled with Dan Graham and his range rover into this area I wouldn't have thought so look
40:59after you've conducted your interviews you've got to understand whether you are at a point where you
41:16could potentially go for charge we weren't at that point
41:21so on the evening of the 31st Daniel Graham and Adam Carruthers were bailed
41:29suspicion of criminal damage and had been bailed while inquiries there was an awful lot of work
41:33to do on both suspects this case had obviously been going for about a month with very little evidence
41:48and we needed something on their phones with one of our digital officers I reviewed Dan's phone and we
41:57just opened the camera roll and we went to the date of the the 27th 20th of September first one was a black video
42:04so we started to play the video
42:09you can kind of see some shadows on it and we could just hear sounds of wind
42:18and then all of a sudden we just heard sounds of a chainsaw
42:24we couldn't really believe what we were hearing
42:36and I remember thinking I need to ring Callum and I need to tell him now
42:42I received a phone call from Kim she said there's a video so I rapidly put the phone
42:53down and traveled back to the northeast
42:55the video was very dark and grainy
43:05it was undoubtedly the sound of a chainsaw
43:11and then there was the sound of a tree cracking
43:18and falling to the ground
43:24you can hear a tree crash into the floor
43:28I was astounded
43:37and I remember thinking this is it
43:40potentially you've got fantastic evidence
43:48but that has to be presented evidentially
43:52to prove that that is that tree
43:56because at the moment I was I had a black screen
43:59I spoke to our digital unit
44:03and said you know we need to get this all enhanced as fast as possible
44:09I continued just to review this phone
44:12when I looked in the camera roll
44:16I could see a little image
44:17so I opened that one up next
44:20I'm not a wood expert
44:27but it does look like a bit of a wedge of a tree that had been cut out next to a chainsaw
44:32that surely can't actually be the bit of wood that we're looking for
44:36are they really going to be that silly to cut it down carry it and then take a picture of it
44:44this photograph linked back to the tip-off that said that they'd retained a section of the tree
44:50but how do I prove that that wedge came from the sycamore tree
44:59this is the slab from the sycamore gap
45:23this surface here is the original cut
45:26it's a massive piece of history
45:35it's quite something
45:37we enlisted the help of a forensic botanist
45:44and he was able to identify firstly the fact that the image was of a piece of sycamore
45:50but then he started looking at the characteristics of the wedge
45:54photographs were taken of the slab
45:59and he was able to overlay the picture of the saw and the wedge in the back of the car
46:06this T-shape lined up perfectly
46:14with the T-shape that we see on the image of the wedge in the back of the Range Rover
46:19it's like putting the jigsaw piece in and just takes him to place
46:28the scar affectionately nicknamed the Harry Potter scar is likely to have been damaged to the tree
46:38as it was growing
46:39it is unique as a fingerprint
46:42and the mystery continues tomorrow from nine or see the whole story now from root to branch on channel 4 streaming
46:58next wednesday at nine a narcissism faith and a shocking abuse of trust the biggest scandal in the history of the church see no evil
47:05back to this evening and we've a festive goggle box coming up next
47:08and the mystery continues tomorrow from nine or see the whole story now from root to branch on channel 4 streaming
47:12and the mystery continues tomorrow from nine or see the whole story now from root to branch on channel 4 streaming
47:16and the history of the church see no evil back to this evening and we've a festive goggle box coming up next
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