- 4 days ago
DW spoke with Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelatty about Cairo's role in implementing the US peace plan to end the Gaza conflict. When asked whether the Rafah crossing would open soon in both directions, the minister said, "We hope so."
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00:00And we are joined now by the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Egypt, Badr Abdelati.
00:05He is joining us from Berlin.
00:07Welcome and thank you for joining us, first of all.
00:10And I'd like to begin with the situation along your border with Gaza in Rafa,
00:14because we are just hearing some reports that the crossing will open in one direction,
00:19exit only in the coming days.
00:21Can you confirm that?
00:25Well, first of all, thank you so much for hosting me.
00:30Well, we are working with the Israeli side with regard to the operation of the Rafah crossing from the Gaza side,
00:39because as you know, the Rafah crossing is operating 24-7 from the Egyptian side.
00:47So we are in final discussions with the Israeli side with regard to the operation of the crossing from Gaza.
01:00And we are fully committed, of course, to allow the flow of all humanitarian and medical assistance into Gaza.
01:11And, of course, to elevate the burden of the people there.
01:15Do you, based on those conversations, do you think the opening is going to happen now in the next days?
01:21We hope so.
01:23You hope so. Okay.
01:24You know, let's talk about your concerns as well as your hopes,
01:28because you have previously been concerned about forced displacement of Gazans amid the Israel-Hamas war.
01:35Where do those concerns stand right now, that there's the prospect of the border opening?
01:39Well, first of all, we are fully committed to make the Trump peace plan a successful one to be implemented on the ground.
01:52Almost we are finished with the implementation of the first phase.
01:58And now we have to focus on the second phase.
02:02And, of course, the operation of the Rafah crossing is vital, is very important.
02:09And we need to have more accessibility of humanitarian and medical aid into Gaza.
02:17Also, there are many cases, medical cases in Gaza.
02:22They need medical intervention.
02:26So we are pretty ready to work and to elevate the burden of the people in Gaza, of course.
02:34And we're going to talk about Trump's peace plan and your role as a broker and a mediator and all of that.
02:40But first, just one more quick question about the situation at the Rafah crossing,
02:43because Israel is saying that Hamas fighters are holed up in southern Gaza's tunnels beneath areas controlled by the Israeli military.
02:52Hamas has now just called on mediating countries to pressure Israel to allow them safe passage.
02:58You're a mediating party.
03:00Are you going to do that?
03:04Well, we are in full cooperation and consultations with the United States
03:10because the American role is extremely important.
03:14And the engagement of President Trump and the American administration
03:17is vital for the implementation of the Trump peace plan,
03:23as well as for the upholding of the existing ceasefire.
03:27So, as I mentioned, we have discussions on the military security and intelligence level with the Israeli side.
03:35I just want to bring it back to the question.
03:36Sorry, Mr. Foreign Minister.
03:37It's just a very simple question.
03:39Do you think that Hamas members will be given safe passage by Israel out of those tunnels
03:46that Israel claims they are in, in Rafah?
03:49And are you, as a mediating partner, applying that pressure right now?
03:56As I mentioned, we are working with the Israelis and we are working with the Americans
04:01in order to solve this issue and other issues related to the decommissioning of Hamas.
04:12So, it's ongoing discussions.
04:14And we are working with the Israeli side, as I mentioned, as well as with the Americans
04:20in order to find a solution to those different questions and problems.
04:27Okay. I promised that we would talk about the peace plan and also about the reason why you are here in Berlin today.
04:33You have discussed plans for the reconstruction of Gaza with your German counterpart.
04:38How should plans for reconstruction begin when the ceasefire remains fragile?
04:43Who are you going to convince to invest in Gaza?
04:45Well, first of all, we have, as you correctly mentioned, to make the ceasefire uphold.
04:54And this is very important, very vital, and this is the most pressing issue.
05:02And that's why we are in daily contacts with the American side, as well as with the Israeli side,
05:09and also with Hamas and the different Palestinian factions.
05:13Because, as you correctly mentioned, without having a solid ceasefire on the ground,
05:19we cannot talk about other issues of importance.
05:23So, we have to start right now the implementation of the second phase.
05:31We have also to move forward with the implementation of the Security Council Resolution 2803.
05:38This is very important, and we have to move forward.
05:44As for the early recovery and the reconstruction conference of Gaza,
05:47this is very important, as well, to give hope for people in Gaza to build on the existing momentum
05:55resulted from having the ceasefire and having the Sharm el-Sheikh summit meeting last October.
06:03So, we have no luxury to wait, and we have to move parallel in different tracks at the same time,
06:15because time is pressing, and people are suffering in Gaza.
06:21Winter is already there, and the weather is very harsh in Gaza, and no shelters, nothing there.
06:31So, we have to address the early recovery projects, and that will prepare for the reconstruction of Gaza.
06:38Germany is a partner, and it's a very important country, and they will be co-conveners.
06:46And we are working with the Americans for the co-chairmanship of the conference,
06:52and to have the date and the timing for the conference, and we are pushing very hard in that direction.
07:01And that's a conference on reconstruction, just to remind our viewers.
07:04I'd like to, you mentioned the humanitarian situation.
07:06I'd also like to ask you about the security situation, because, I mean, you have the inside track here.
07:11We've seen you, Qatar, the United States, brokering a lot of the negotiations to end the Israel-Hamas war
07:17in all stages of this, the release of the hostages, the ceasefire talks,
07:21and now also through this framework of Trump's 20-point peace plan,
07:25which you mentioned got the green light also from the Security Council recently.
07:30You have made this commitment to train a Palestinian police force in Sinai for Gaza deployment.
07:37And Trump's peace plan is also calling for an international stabilization force
07:43to be this long-term international security solution.
07:47They say that they will consult with you in the development of this force,
07:51which is why I'd like to ask you, do you really see this coming about?
07:55Because so few have wanted to play the role of peacekeeper on the ground in Gaza.
08:01How do you see security happening going forward?
08:04Yeah. Well, it's coming. It's happening, of course.
08:09And we should be very serious on that, because the issue of governance is very important.
08:16The issue of security is very important as well.
08:20And when it comes to security, we have to talk about two levels.
08:24First level is the Palestinian level, the local policemen.
08:29And we have already, as we speak, around 5,000 policemen in Gaza.
08:36They are, I mean, they've been there.
08:39They are taking their salaries.
08:42And they need just to be deployed, to be empowered,
08:46in order to take care of the law enforcement in Gaza.
08:52Parallel to that, as you correctly mentioned, we are working very hard for providing training
08:58for Palestinian young men in Egypt, in order to prepare them to take over also
09:07to security arrangement in Gaza.
09:11And to complement the other 5,000 already there in Gaza,
09:16to fill the vacuum and to take care of the daily life of the people in Gaza.
09:22The second level, as you correctly mentioned, is the ISF, the International Stabilization Force.
09:28And this is very, very important, because they will be mandated with the monitoring of the ceasefire
09:36to make sure that the two parts are honoring their commitments according to the ceasefire
09:42without violation, and also to take care of the external border and the security of the border,
09:49and also the operation of the crossings.
09:52This is very important, and some countries express their readiness to participate.
09:57And we are now working with the Americans for the, you know, identifying the mission and the mandate,
10:08as well as the formulation of these forces.
10:13Yeah, but one does have to say, I mean, countries have not been running to sign up for this.
10:18So there is some skepticism out there about whether or not it is indeed realistic and feasible.
10:22Another thing that also is a big barrier is that one of the conditions for Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in the peace deal
10:31is that Hamas give up its weapons.
10:34Of course, their public line has been absolutely not.
10:38You're brokering with them.
10:40Do you see any circumstances under which they would agree to that?
10:44Well, again, we have to work on different parallel tracks.
10:54And as you correctly mentioned, for the second phase, we have issues related to decommissioning,
11:00as well as redeployment and the withdrawal of the Israeli forces from Gaza.
11:06So there are commitments for the two parties, and we have to work very, very hard in order to implement
11:17what was agreed upon in the Trump peace plan, as well as in the Security Council resolution.
11:23And we believe that we can do that, and the international community, the United States,
11:30this is the main guarantee.
11:32Yeah.
11:33If they don't agree, is the deal dead?
11:36Well, you know, we are working on the assumption that the two parties accepted the Trump peace plan,
11:46and that's why we are working with the assumption that they are both on board,
11:54and we have to move forward for the implementation,
11:58and we have different creative ideas with regard to dealing with the issue of the weapons and the decommissioning.
12:05Different creative ideas.
12:07And we have, as you know, some success, yeah, we have some successful stories,
12:12like in Northern Ireland, and that could be, you know, dealt with.
12:19Lessons can be drawn from the previous similar cases, like as I mentioned, in Ireland.
12:26And so I believe that we can learn from those lessons, and we can implement it on the ground in Gaza.
12:35I'd like to ask you a little bit more about the impact of Arab countries on the architecture of Gaza's future,
12:43because Trump's 20-point peace plan for Gaza calls for the territory to, first of all,
12:48will be governed by a technocratic Palestinian committee, but that's going to be overseen by a so-called board of peace,
12:55which would then be chaired by Trump and other members, including former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair.
13:01Do you have guarantees that there will be an Arab presence on that board?
13:06Do you need those guarantees?
13:07Are you concerned about potential foreign influence?
13:13Well, first of all, as I mentioned before, we are working with the Americans on that.
13:19We have, we are waiting for answering different questions with regard to the formulation of the board of peace,
13:26who will be invited, and what will be the mandate.
13:30So there is ongoing discussions with the American side on that.
13:35And as I mentioned, the main guarantee for the implementation of the Trump peace plan
13:40is involving the direct involvement of his Excellency President Trump himself, as well as the American administration.
13:48So we, parallel to that, we have to formulate the technical, technocratic administrative Palestinian committee.
13:58This is very, very important in order to take care of the daily life of the people
14:05and to run the, to provide the basic services to the people in Gaza.
14:10We have prepared a list of candidates, all technocrats, all doctors and engineers, all from Gaza.
14:18And we are now in debate, in the dialogue with the Israeli side, with the American side,
14:24in order to approve the names and then to deploy them to take care of the daily life of people,
14:33including providing basic services like healthcare, like water, electricity, and so on,
14:38and to prepare for the implementation of the early recovery and the reconstruction of Gaza.
14:44So I'd like to ask you, just briefly before we go, a little bit more about the state of regional diplomacy right now
15:11and where you have seen it come amid the Israel-Hamas war.
15:15We mentioned a little bit earlier that you, along with Qatar,
15:17that you have really been in all levels of negotiations between Israel and Hamas throughout the war.
15:23Through that lens, how do you rate the level of Arab cooperation right now?
15:27Do you think that there is a change or a deeper level of cooperation and determination by Arab states
15:33since the onset of the war, yes, yes, of course, we have very, very close cooperation, coordination among Arab countries
15:45in order to move forward with regard to promoting peaceful and political solutions.
15:52Everybody is now on board.
15:54Everybody is convinced that there is no military solution to those different conflicts.
16:00One important development happened last September when the Arab ministerial council,
16:09they approved a certain resolution which is talking about general principles
16:19which should guide the regional security regime in the Middle East.
16:24And this is something very important.
16:26And it was based on a co-draft resolution presented by Egypt and Saudi Arabia,
16:32two main pillar countries in the Arab world.
16:36So according to this resolution approved by the foreign ministers of Arab states last September,
16:44you know, we set specific principles which should guide the security regional regime in the Middle East for the future,
16:53especially principles such as respect of territorial integrity, respect of sovereignty,
17:01not use of force in settling down the crisis and the conflict,
17:07as well as, of course, the universality of the principle of non-proliferation.
17:12So those are principles approved by the Arabs and we are open to talk,
17:21to have other regional partners outside the Arab world to join like any regional country in the region.
17:31They are welcome to work with us,
17:34but based on respecting those certain principles approved by the Arab ministers.
17:39Badr Abdelati, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Egypt,
17:43unfortunately we have to leave it there, but we thank you so much for your time.
17:47We really appreciate it.
17:50Thank you for hosting me.
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