- 3 weeks ago
The Hollywood Reporter held its third annual Raising Our Voices luncheon, celebrating some of the industry's most powerful advocates for diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility. Annette Bening took over as moderator for the second panel, called "Freedom to Be: The Future of Trans Visibility," presented by ACLU. She was joined by 'Baby Reindeer' breakout star Nava Mau, Michaela Jaé Rodriguez, '9-1-1: Lone Star' actor Brian Michael Smith and ACLU lead attorney for LGBTQ+ legal cases Chase Strangio.
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00:00okay so now I'm a moderator this is this is different I'm a little bit nervous
00:10that's okay okay wait I have to read a little bit first I love a script hello everyone
00:20okay good am I okay all right hello everyone and welcome to the ACLU's freedom to be
00:29the future of trans visibility panel at the Hollywood reporters annual raising our voices
00:37luncheon I did it okay just quickly I do want to say on a personal note why I'm here
00:49I'm here because there is so much fear and ignorance right now in the
00:59atmosphere in the political atmosphere in the social discourse around trans people
01:04and it is so destructive and it is so wrong I'm lucky I have a trans son I have four kids
01:14and I love my kids and I brag about all of them because that's our job we're parents we get to
01:21brag about our children I'm sorry that's just how it is and I do I brag about all my kids and I brag
01:27about my son and I I know what it's like to be afraid okay I know I had a kid who said he was
01:36trans I didn't know what to do I was scared I was ignorant and so I know personally like what that
01:45journey is as a parent I don't know what it's like to be trans but I know it's like to be a parent
01:50and I am so grateful for this experience because it has opened up my mind and my soul and who I am as
02:03a human being in a way I never could have imagined and I'm so grateful for that and all of the themes
02:11that I heard of even in the in the film about the east west bank it's about bridges and connections
02:18there is no reason to be frightened if you have a trans child or a gender questioning child
02:26what kids and families need is support and love and information and counseling and medical care
02:39and it's not complicated and when we talk about we're going to talk about trans visibility with
02:48very visible trans folks but that's not the goal in my mind the goal is we all have trans folks in
02:58our lives and I'm thinking I made it was a list like of all of the folks that I know doctors
03:04caregivers uh caregivers uh the guy at the bookstore the store clerk the barista the scientist the author
03:14the poet like this is life and everyone deserves to be able to live in freedom and dignity
03:25that's what our country is about that's what we want to move towards and right now we really need to
03:33underscore that so that's where I'm coming from thank you
03:40um I want to start by going to chase as many of you know I hope we are honored to have chase
03:55because chase is one of the most articulate advocates for the trans community in this country
04:03and knows so much so I wanted to start actually if I could if you can give us a picture about where we
04:14are kind of right now um there's a lot of trans legislation from what I understand sort of
04:20since same-sex marriage was approved then if I may the political right sort of moved over to the
04:30trans issue and starts demonizing the trans community in a very pointed legislative way
04:36so if you would and maybe project 2025 a little bit or just kind of give us a sense of where we are
04:42yeah so so first of all thank you all and thank you Annette and I'm already a little bit crying
04:48and Nina had me crying and I'm like okay well that's what we're doing and that's okay um I'm here
04:53for it uh we hold multitudes um but we are you know I want to bring you Nav and I were talking about like
05:01we want to really nourish the the magic of transness and the gift of having a trans child for example
05:07and I I just also want to say we are in crisis absolute crisis there are hundreds of pieces of
05:16legislation targeting trans people introduced every year and after the supreme court struck down bans
05:24on marriage equality for same-sex couples a hundreds of millions to billions of dollar global movement
05:31was weaponized on the bodies of trans people and for the last nine years we have been fighting just
05:40to exist just to not have our health care criminalized just to be able to go to the
05:46bathroom in school to be able to enjoy the activities of our peers and it is becoming increasingly
05:54impossible and we cannot fight this legislative this political and importantly this cultural battle
06:01alone because we are dying and so I I just I can't raise the alarms enough um and if we look at what
06:11what does the future hold something like project 2025 project 2025 posits transness itself as criminal
06:18it suggests that the weight of the government should be weaponized against us for existing and so that is
06:25what we're up against and so I am honored to sit here among these incredible artists who so often have to
06:31speak to their transness but let's just take a moment to celebrate their brilliant art and their craft
06:36and and because at the end of the day litigation which is what I do is a form of storytelling but it is a
06:48it's a form of storytelling that exists within the cultural context in which we live and so whatever
06:54stories we're able to tell as lawyers as policymakers as litigators is constrained by the cultural context that
07:00we are existing in so I whatever power I have in the courtroom pales in comparison to the power that
07:08you all have and so I'm here today to just be in your presence but also just to ring every alarm that I
07:15can because our survival is dependent on the stories that we're able to tell in this society and so
07:20let's do this thank you okay great thank you so Nava I'm going to ask you the first question so
07:29first of all congratulations on baby reindeer which is this massive hit on Netflix and it's a wonderful
07:40show and congratulations on your Emmy nomination so happy for you and sort of what the last panel was
07:53speaking to the complexity of characterization and one of the things that is so striking in this performance
08:02and in this show is that you are the smartest least neurotic most accomplished sane person in the show
08:13which is such a refreshing thing in this character so I just wanted to know what you might want to say
08:20about baby reindeer and what your experience has been like and maybe I hear something about you've been getting
08:26particular um responses from cis men that might be interesting for people to hear about did that leak
08:34somewhere tell us the truth well thank you so much um it's an honor to be sitting here and and I think I
08:44still can't really believe that everything that's happened this year has happened and um I think that
08:51it's it's it's been so special that it's been so special that the way that I think so much of the world has
08:56received baby reindeer is exactly the way that I did when I read the script and when I was filming um two years
09:05ago now um and so as you were um you know asking the question I I kind of remembered um how special it was to
09:19work with Richard um and I think it's it's just it's it feels still very taboo and stigmatized I think
09:28for cis men um to even speak to a trans woman which I I think is a reflection of the ostracization that
09:43trans people have faced in our society and the way that trans people have been placed uh at the bottom
09:51of of social hierarchy and so um let alone so for a cis man to not only you know address a trans woman
10:02but then uplift her in a story the way that Richard did um was the first time that I had ever seen
10:11something like that and um and so it was transformative for me uh personally to kind of reckon with the the
10:21weight and the um I think the pain that that is inherent um and and inherited in in the dynamics between
10:33cis men and trans women um but the reality is that
10:38we we can find love with each other we can find understanding with each other and so it's it's been
10:49incredible now that audiences around the world um have gotten to witness one relationship like that
10:57and and and I think that it has led them to interrogate what it means for them and what
11:04relationships they might be having with trans women um and so yeah it's been there's been people that come
11:12up to me on the street and and and I'm always like wait you like this meant something to you you know
11:19like um yeah shout out to that French guy at Huntington Gardens like seriously it really meant so much to me
11:29like I was like okay like it freed you too um so it's been really beautiful to get to share that
11:37I love that and I love that you share just that specific experience because often when we're in the public eye
11:45we have a general sense of maybe having some effect on an individual but when someone you have a moment
11:51a personal moment with one person who comes up and takes your arm I can think of a number of that I've
11:57had over my life and I just think wow sometimes people even tell you secrets because they felt
12:03because I know I feel that when I watch something I feel somehow if it's really touching me it's it's
12:10about my story they're telling me my secret that I didn't even know I had and that's what it's all
12:19about and that's beautiful um one of my friends here in Los Angeles just moved here from Texas
12:24she's a lawyer she's incredibly articulate and smart and she's got a trans child she has two kids one is
12:32trans she had to move out of Texas because of the draconian laws the scary laws in Texas
12:40uh armed uh aimed at kids and parents and now even uh trans folks I know there's another recent
12:49piece of legislation in Texas which is aimed at adults so what I imagine is some kid in Texas
12:57you know maybe they're a teenager they're old enough to watch baby reindeer maybe they're feeling
13:03they're questioning their gender they're questioning who they are and then they sit down and they watch
13:10this show and they're like oh I see that's an example of someone who figured it out and you know
13:20it's all a process we're all figuring ourselves it's an ongoing process we know that but anyway that's
13:25just let's thank you for your answer that's beautiful so Brian like your fellow panelists you've
13:32also made history wow in 2020 you became the first openly trans black man cast as a serious
13:39regular in a network show in 9-1-1 Lone Star on Fox
13:44what an incredible moment I mean I know we've got a lot of things to fight and a lot of hate and a lot
13:57of fear out there but we also have this enormous moment this great success this joy so congratulations
14:05really how amazing thank you can you talk about experiences you've had in which you worked with
14:13the writers from what I understand you had the ability and have had the ability to affect the
14:20writing and the way that the storytelling is works in your show and I just love to hear about that
14:25and how you've been able to um basically be there and be yourself and and influence how the stories
14:33are told that's a great question thank you um and thank you all for having me here I'm also like
14:39Nava just just feeling incredibly proud and blessed to be here you know like there's a lot of times
14:46I felt like I didn't have a future for myself like I didn't see a future for myself just as a black
14:52person as a who wants to be an actor as a as a trans person growing up in Michigan thinking like
14:57I'm the only person like this and then thinking that the only future for me you know is to try to be
15:03someone that I'm not I don't understand like I was having a hard enough time just trying to understand
15:07how do you be a girl and it's like I'm supposed to be a woman it's like I just I don't know you know
15:12and then on top of that if I do have you know transition or something like that there's no
15:18trans actors I'm not going to be able to act what if they find out just all the fear around that you
15:22know because you know this was in the early 2000s and and there wasn't much information available so
15:27just being here in this room today as myself is it's just something yeah and it it wouldn't be
15:38possible without you know the work that that chasing ACLU was doing on the legislative side
15:42wouldn't be possible without you know the the people who came before me Candace Kane you know
15:46Traceless said Laverne Cox people have paved the way for me so I feel like I'm standing on the
15:50shoulder of giants you know and in my in my trans history so again I'm just incredibly fortunate to
15:55be here and I think that spoke to the significance of being able to even play Paul Strickland like
16:01the fact that someone decided to write a character that's going to be a trans man that was like that
16:08didn't exist right so it's like just to have all these things fall in line to feel like I could
16:14find the courage to be myself to gather the information in the pre-Google era and like you
16:19know find my way and make my way out of Michigan into New York into this industry and to build my
16:24craft up to a point where I felt like I want to be good enough to be honest on screen so I want to
16:30learn that this craft so that I can do that and then feeling like okay I'm ready to do that but no
16:35one knows you know about me I've taken on just I was just taking on any character that would allow
16:40me to show my ability to be human on screen and there weren't any trans masculine characters that
16:45would allow me to really step into that the characters that were being written for us at
16:48that time you know were either they were trans feminine characters and they were usually like
16:51the victim or the the villain or something like that so you know the evolution of the writing was
16:56really great up to a point you know because they were starting to then let more trans and gender
17:02non-conforming people into the writers room and that informed the stories that were being told
17:07and I feel like on the show 9-1-1 Lone Star they didn't have any trans people in the room
17:12but they were aware of that and they were like we want you to be in here we want to tell this story
17:17but we're not the experts on this story and I'm like well I'm glad you can recognize that that's
17:21great let me tell you something so it was a really open experience that I felt prepared to do
17:28because I had the experience of working on Queen Sugar and what was really great about that was
17:32like a woman-led um production I mean a lot of the department heads were women the first director
17:37I worked with on that show was uh was a woman director it was the first time someone ever
17:41came into the makeup room and was like you know introduced herself and she was like what's your
17:46ideas for the scene I have a few thanks for asking you know and it was wonderful it was wonderful to
17:55bring that truth to this moment it was very similar to how Namba explained her um experience in
18:00baby reindeer where it's like instead of the trans person being the one asking for help and acceptance
18:05it was like the black trans man was in a position of the black this man was in a position of vulnerability
18:10and my character had his stuff together and was able to kind of say hey this brother is what you need to
18:14do and also express gratitude for his allyship right he said uh I didn't know what was going on at the
18:21time but I just wouldn't let anybody like be mean to you and I was like that is what kind of saved me so
18:26it was just a great example across the board um of how to handle stories that involve like trans
18:32characters that I felt like I want to make sure I bring that to uh Lone Star now that I'm in this
18:36position to represent a character that is going to be in the houses of people in these rural and and
18:41and and middle American countries who don't know that they know a trans person so it's like if I'm
18:47going to be the only trans person they know I want to be as authentic as possible and as truthful
18:52as possible to make sure that the humanity of our experience our shared experience is clear in this
18:59representation god that's so beautiful wow
19:02I know that um privacy has always been really important to me as a public person and I um I think
19:13that it's part of our work that a lot of people struggle with in terms of invasive questions um
19:20inappropriate questions I mean I've been around long enough now it doesn't surprise me and it
19:25doesn't really bother me and I it's not like it's a huge problem for me but every once in a while it
19:29comes up and um especially right now in this time of sort of over sharing if I may just in general
19:38there's a lot of over sharing um so uh having that sense of privacy about yourselves is also I think
19:45you know it's part of this it's like visibility but it's also well you get to have your own story
19:50and your own um your own privacy and sometimes people invade that when you're a public person
19:57um Michaela J so you have enjoyed a run of incredibly diverse roles in tv and film
20:04since first breaking out in the lead in fx's pose
20:08so um you have really um embraced your platform shall we say and really spoken out when you felt
20:21you needed to in the new york times and other places very eloquently about your experience your
20:28personal experience and what your what your opinions are and I applaud that and I respect that about you
20:35um I don't know why so many public people who aren't even in the political sphere but are more in the
20:45cultural sphere shall we say uh choose to uh treat trans people with derision as being the other
20:55as being less than I don't understand it I find it heartbreaking and enraging so I just want to
21:05first of all say thank you for being such a great voice and um yeah how do you how do you do that
21:13how do you manage that um the first word I would probably use is when in any kind of situation like
21:22that I use grace you have to have grace for anyone um even when it's negative I try my best to live
21:29by standards that my mom has raised me on she's here today hey mama um
21:33I always put her on the spot too I'm sorry girl I'm gonna put you on the spot like that
21:39no but um in all honesty I try to use grace because when you approach something with grace first you get
21:46to think about the action to you how you're going to react and the actions you want to take
21:50um so when it comes to any kind of derogatory slur or any kind of person try my best to really
21:58understand where they're coming from and I realize that it's not my problem at all it's theirs
22:01and I can't do anything about that the only thing we can do as people who are influencing who are
22:07actors and actresses whether you are trans or not is to keep inspiring and helping people understand
22:12why we work so hard for what we do um and that yeah that's what I lead by and I try my best to
22:18continue to do that I think grace is the most important thing you can have for anyone
22:22okay now I'm tearing up now it's my turn okay yeah I feel like so many of these folks if we could
22:32just get them right here in this room to sit with us for an hour and a half or two hours then so much
22:38of that crazy would go away okay so chase I wanted just to ask you can you talk about the very important
22:47case that you're working on at the aclu lw versus scrimetti and what's at stake for transgender youth
22:54please oh yeah so I just want to just one more time thank uh the three of you because I when I was
23:00growing up the only trans masculine person I ever had heard of was brandon tina and he was murdered
23:07and that's all I knew because that's all I saw I'm a future of being murdered and now I have been at the
23:14ACLU for 12 years and I'm leading a case at the United States Supreme Court on behalf of my community
23:20because of people of you so thank you thank you um and but but people aren't aware of what's happening
23:29so we are at the United States Supreme Court now challenging one of the 25 bans on evidence-based
23:36medicine for trans adolescents and the court is going to decide whether it is constitutional to
23:45deny people medical care that they their parents and their doctors agree is medically necessary for
23:51them but more than that the court is going to decide whether it is legal to discriminate against
23:56trans people whether we are protected under the constitution and spoiler alert the decision in this
24:03case is going to affect bodily autonomy for everyone because if the government can decide to take away
24:10people's health care because they don't like what that health care is you might remember in 2022 they
24:17overturned Roe v Wade and this is an extension of that and so everyone's rights everyone's bodies are on the
24:24line at the court and we are up before this court likely to have argument in December with a decision in
24:29June of 2025 and an election in between so we need to be showing up together and so I am just I hope that
24:38you are listening to these amazing people and and getting ready to mobilize with us thank you
24:43so now I guess the next question is given your expertise what is something that each of us in this room can do
24:57what is one actionable thing that each of us in this room can do between now and the election
25:03oh between now okay so uh well and then I'm gonna maybe everyone can can share their thing so it's not
25:09just me because I you know what do I know uh but you know I I I think for for now because if if you'll
25:15notice between trans people and immigrants this election is going to be based on the demonization
25:22of communities who are experiencing material harms and marginalization in this country
25:28listen to the rhetoric the anti-black the xenophobic the transphobic rhetoric how do we counter that
25:34with stories that humanize the people are who are being dehumanized every day so tell those stories
25:40share those stories follow the people who can amplify those stories and that's what I would urge you to
25:45do and I want to hear from these folks too I would say um go fight it like it's your fight fight it like
25:54it's against you the target that's on our back you're on the other side of it so please act as if it's
25:59your rights that are that are you know on the chopping block because they are and like chase said you know
26:04sharing the stories there's so many stories now right so even if you don't know that you know a trans
26:10person there's so much good representation in the media that you can use as an example you could you know
26:15share disclosure I think that's a great thing for people to watch to talk about how media has
26:19informed whatever their opinion may be about you know a trans people so I mean just simple things
26:23like that aside from going out to vote and voting in everyone's interest would be a great thing to do
26:30so those are the suggestions I will make I love that my mother is 95 and when my son came out in high
26:37school he had a he went to a very small progressive high school and graduated um and my mom who is a
26:44Republican uh Episcopalian raised in Iowa raised in a very patriarchal uh culture at my son's high
26:55school graduation she got up and she said wrote spoke beautifully about my son and said you know I
27:02used to have a beautiful granddaughter and now I have a handsome grandson and it was just kind of that
27:07simple and I thought that that is a very powerful statement any anybody just that can get up and say
27:14something like this this is how we change hearts and minds go ahead also say my check one two one two
27:22um I'm a little silly y'all um I would I would say what was so beautiful for me is watching the other
27:30women that were up here before us and hearing the stories that are so similar to what a lot of us as
27:36trans people go through but more specifically what trans women go through and we are complex we are we have
27:41so many dimensions to us and I think the best things that we can do is align and create together
27:50that is how you make a movement so and and hearing the women before like I said it was so inspiring
27:56because there were a lot of circumstances that I've gone through the same exact ways that they did and
28:00you know there were times where I did not know when to speak up but now is the time to do so so I think
28:05that's the best thing you can do and if you have one like that on your side I love that you win
28:09so yeah I mean I think as Lisa alluded to as women we were um taught to be quiet and to listen and I
28:18remember many films as I was starting and you know the director's the the boss and I'm supposed to do
28:25what the director tells me to do and I would look at a script and I would think oh yeah this is really
28:30good there's like a little section in here that I think doesn't quite work it's kind of boring and I
28:35don't know but you know I'm not going to say anything because it's not my place I'm just the
28:40actress and then I would go to see the film and I would look and I would say oh my god I was right
28:48that is that's boring that part of the movie is boring oh okay maybe I you know maybe I have
28:55something to share here and I you know I've learned I've learned over the years you know how to raise my
29:01voice without raising my voice but diplomatically and and you know saying what I felt so the last
29:07question is what does the freedom to be mean to you so I'll start so to me it is
29:15what you just said I get to have all of my inner complexity I get anytime I'm studying a character
29:27and I get to the point where there's an absolute contradiction within this person I think oh
29:36that's where the gold is like that's where the truth is is somewhere in that place that we all
29:44have in us and we all have the right to have that complexity and that mystery and that ambiguity and that
29:52search that's what we're talking about we're not talking about fighting for people that are fully
29:59formed and idealized we're talking about the nuance and complexity of our experience and what we do
30:08as performers my view is that we are in the business of intimacy and that quiet voice inside of you when
30:20you are alone that we all have that's what we're trying to dramatize that's what we're
30:28trying to bring out so that when people see us they say oh oh that's me or I felt something like that
30:36freedom inner freedom and outer freedom that's my that's my aspiration so if anybody wants to talk about
30:48what what what is freedom to be me now that you want to mention beautiful wow um uh freedom to be I
30:58think to me is having self-determination and and bodily autonomy be guaranteed and established in order to
31:12be able to sprout new dreams at every stage of the way because I think that so often people who are
31:17marginalized in our society you know we can get stuck having to just fight for our right to exist
31:28housing health care and employment we can get stuck on just dreaming for that one opportunity
31:35um and then dreaming to be recognized and then and then
31:40you know is it ever going to happen again in our industry I think that's that's a question that we
31:47kind of return to it's like maybe that was it and so I think for trans people especially because we have
31:57to fight for so much just to get one opportunity I think true freedom would be that I get to sprout new
32:07dreams over and over and not have to get stuck on one of them anybody else want to speak to that
32:20that was beautiful um I would say freedom to be to me is like a mix of permission and a permission to
32:28explore yourself and to change and to sprout those new dreams and protection like whether it's coming from
32:35within protecting yourself when you're doing something new and vulnerable and knowing that
32:39you have the support around you that's going to provide both you know so whether it's while you're
32:44doing your inner you have it in the outer you know so even if you are of my experience or not
32:49you're going to be a hedge of protection around me while I explore and I'm going to do the same thing
32:53for you while you explore and you give yourself permission to to be a different version of yourself
32:56beautiful thank you I would say um oh the first thing that came to my mind honestly like true
33:09freedom is obviously everything you guys said but also having a healthy and a healthy boundary and
33:17knowing when to draw the line you know like having a secure boundary of when where and how knowing when
33:24to say yes and knowing when to say no that is freedom because you get to actually choose to
33:29say yes or no if you only are thinking to say no or only thinking to say yes that's just you're
33:33putting yourself in a cage so I think you have to have a healthy healthy boundary and also make sure you
33:40live as free as you can when you home I mean like you're gonna be that's that's the most important
33:44thing no but um yeah I think drawing a healthy boundary that's that's crucial that's how you find your freedom
33:50I love that thank you my god yes chase do you want to speak to that oh I just it has been freeing to
34:02sit here among my trans friends because we all know each other as it goes um but I guess I want to speak
34:09maybe to a more structural notion of freedom which is that I think one of the reasons why transness is so
34:17threatening to people is because it represents a freedom that is unimaginable to so many and freedom
34:24terrifies people because it requires you to confront choice and uncertainty and mess and we are unnerving
34:33to people because we represent that freedom and so what I I guess I'd put it back to everyone else
34:38which is to get to experience the freedom of transness
34:47absolutely oh yeah no I I definitely feel that in my life that I've benefited so much from
34:57saying goodbye to the binary world it's so boring and it's so limiting and the non-binary world is so
35:06much more interesting it's always been there anyway it's just that now we get to celebrate and understand
35:12it better and show compassion and also joy so I guess that's it we'll wrap it up thank you
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