00:00I have done bricklaying for loving. I could build a wall. I think I could still build a wall.
00:06I look like I have a worker's hands on the outside, but they're a little softer on the inside
00:10because of my day job. It was actually, I read it many, many years ago when it first came out,
00:19and it was the first Dennis Johnson piece of writing I'd ever read. And it just happened to
00:23be like, I was getting out of college, I think at the time, and it came out and I just, I read it
00:27and I was blown away. And then I devoured everything else he had written. And I just became a huge
00:32Dennis Johnson fan. And then fast forward to, and Joel also has a history with the book that
00:39precedes us making the film together. And then fast forward to, I had made Jockey and it had
00:45premiered here and, and a couple of producers had the rights to the book and were trying to find a
00:50filmmaker to make the book into a movie. And they saw Jockey and felt like I might be a good fit.
00:54And I don't know that I would have had the courage to do it otherwise had they not asked,
00:59but it was just like, as soon as it, the idea came across, it just felt like the most exciting
01:05thing. I don't really often get to read for pleasure. You know, I'm a slow reader. I read a lot
01:13for work. And so sometimes I equate reading now with like, like part of, part of a job.
01:19Um, and somebody had gifted me the novella at the end of a job and I read it, you know, for pleasure
01:28and was so taken with it. And you know, I'm, I'm also a filmmaker and I, I was so taken with it that,
01:34that I made an inquiry about the rights to the book. And of course they were taken and I was like,
01:41work. It was, you know, so be it. And then, uh, years later when Clint contacted me, it felt like
01:48somebody had really, it felt like something special was in the air. I was like, how did somebody know
01:55that I was so taken with this story? Um, and so I felt very lucky. And then, um, I was very nervous
02:03about reading a screenplay because I remember that, you know, any, any book or novella is a challenge
02:08to translate into a film. The script was so well, um, it was such an accomplished version of the book
02:17in the screenplay. And then, you know, and I watched Clint's, uh, film Jockey and, and it's,
02:22it's very rare often that sometimes you get a nice script and then you're not so sure about the way
02:29the, or the other elements to be kind, you know, or you, you, you, you want to work with a great
02:36filmmaker and then you're not connected with the script. But this felt like everything really
02:40lined up and I felt very privileged that they were asking me to do it. And I felt that by this
02:46stage in my life, I do know myself well enough, um, what aspects of me felt appropriate for this.
02:54And I felt like it was something that I could wear quite well. So it was, it was cool. Then it happened.
03:01After Joel came on, then we were like, it was like, okay, now let's find our Gladys. And, um,
03:08and that's such a, a difficult character to, to try and get right. Um, and Joel and Felicity had
03:15known each other and wanted to work together for a while. And, um, and I've been a huge fan of hers
03:20forever. And, and so she just like, it was just one of those where she just felt so perfect for it
03:25that you're like, I hope she doesn't say no. Cause I don't know who. His sensitivity to the way he
03:33spoke about the material, the way he approached things as a writer and as, as a filmmaker that I
03:41had complete trust in him. And it was easy for me to share that information with her and actors
03:46often like feel safe with each other. You know, who, who am I going to be working with? And is it going
03:51to be a good experience and you don't have a crystal ball, but you can have an instinct for
03:56the someone. So I definitely, um, you know, I was blowing Clint's trumpet to her, if that's the
04:04right way of putting it, of saying how much faith I had in the process and, and, and as a collaborator
04:10you know, because, um, Clint and Greg, as writers, uh, part of their power is, is not to assume
04:20complete control over something is that filmmaking is such a collaborative situation anyway. And if
04:27actors have thoughts about things, it's important to, um, listen to them, but not listen to all of
04:35them because we can have some pretty terrible ideas too. What, okay. What is your affinity, not affinity
04:43for talent, for like anything with working with your hands, manual labor, any of that? Like, would
04:49you have any skills to offer as a real life, uh, person? Yeah, you'd be great. I have done brick
04:56laying, uh, for loving. I could build a wall. I think I could still build a wall. I look like I have
05:02workers' hands on the outside, but they're a little softer on the inside because of my day job. Um,
05:08I like doing, uh, films, I guess, where I get to learn skills and do things that are, that are
05:17physical. Cause I think that, um, um, as much as I obsess over the interior life of characters,
05:24the, the physical nature of work is so important. Some of my favorite actors are people who, who,
05:30who bring the character into their whole body rather than just their voice or their eyes. Um,
05:35but I also have a whole history in my family of men that were workers, you know, my, before my father,
05:43um, his father was a, was a, uh, train driver. And, and before that, a whole lineage of farmers,
05:50which my father was going to carry on, except that he got sort of railroaded at, um, uh, at university
05:58in this sort of, he was on his way to go and enroll in, uh, what was called sheep husbandry.
06:05And his friends were like, Mick, we're going off to become lawyers, you know, and there's lots of
06:09money in it. He was like, um, okay. And my life may now be not sitting here, but being the son of a
06:18farmer, you know, inheriting the farm or something. It's, it's interesting how generations, and that
06:23speaks to the film as well about how life lived could be one thing or another. And, and how one
06:29decision like that can like ripple across generations now. And, you know, well, I, I feel
06:35like I'm of a generation where I got to take charge of my own future, you know, and have to inherit
06:41something or presume to inherit something. Um, and, and there's something really nice about this film
06:46that I responded to and that, you know, this idea of the significance and insignificance of all of
06:53our lives, we will all be forgotten unless we're, you know, some criminal or a politician or a famous
06:59artist of some kind that's written into history, but we all contribute to the world and we're all
07:04insignificant and will be forgotten to a degree, but we did contribute something or we brought new
07:10people into the world that, you know, continue the human race. So I, I, I feel there's a real potency
07:17and simplicity to the film. Does a movie of yours stick out as when you were talking about like
07:23learning skills and stuff for, for jobs, that was the hardest was one. Uh, warrior for sure.
07:30Presuming at the, you know, I used to have a fighting background as a kid, like just doing karate,
07:35but warrior came around when I was in my mid thirties and I, I, I had this sort of, um, cynical,
07:41point of view that I was a bit too old to, to learn all these new skills and I, you know,
07:45we, we were proven, forced to prove ourselves wrong. And, and I really admired having to go
07:51through a really intense work experience like that and prove, you know, for the future also
07:57is never to doubt what, what you're capable of.
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