'Kokuho' producer Chieko Murata and production designer Yohei Taneda chat with THR's David Canfield to talk all about Lee Sang-il's nearly-three-hour-long epic, which focuses on the life of a fictional kabuki actor, during a THR Frontrunners conversation.
00:00When I was developing the project with the directors and the writer, I thought that there probably will be around 90% of the Japanese population who will die without seeing Kabuki because it's just a luxury of life.
00:14So if we make a movie about it and if you can see it in $10, people will maybe want to come and see it.
00:20A long journey to the screen for this one, if I'm correct.
00:30So whoever wants to start, can you tell us a little bit about the origin story of how this movie started?
00:36I believe it's over a decade in the making.
00:39Hello, thank you for coming today.
00:41I'm Chieko Murata, the producer of the film.
00:43So over 10 years ago, director Lee had actually wanted to create a Kabuki film.
00:54And some time had passed and the novelist, Shuichi Yoshida, had written a novel by the same name, Kokuhou.
01:03And so that's where things started to fall into place.
01:06So then production started approximately about four years ago, starting with the script.
01:15But even a little bit before that, the director had already asked Mr. Taiohei Taneda to be the production designer.
01:23So is it typical for you to be brought into a film that early as a production designer?
01:29Yes, if I have a relationship with a director, yes, they will call me on pretty much.
01:36early on.
01:37If it's a first-time director, it's usually not so much time.
01:45And actually, the first film I worked with, with director Lee, was 22 years ago.
01:50So we've had quite a relationship.
01:52With this film, I think everyone watching can see this incredible scope.
01:56The amount of detail that goes into it is pretty awe-inspiring.
01:59So in those initial conversations on how you're going to mount the movie,
02:03what were some of the big-picture talking points of how you were going to be able to make this,
02:08just, you know, in terms of budget and things like that?
02:11So the novel that Shuichi Yoshida had written was very, very interesting.
02:20It was really good.
02:21And so when I first sat down with the director, the conversation started with,
02:27it's going to have to be at least three hours.
02:30Like, that can't be helped.
02:33But we did discuss about, let's try making it a little less than three hours.
02:41And of course, one of the key points is to really correctly and vividly capture the kubiki dance.
02:53And that really had to be portrayed correctly.
02:56And I myself really love, I'm a fan of Indian Bollywood movies.
03:01So I knew that if there was dancing segments weaved in within the story,
03:06that three hours wouldn't be so bad.
03:08And so the director definitely wanted to have this movie be entertaining.
03:17There could have been a tendency to, let's say, lean towards more art house, beautiful film,
03:23but there was an intention to have it being entertaining.
03:28So that's where Mr. Taneida comes in to capture the beauty.
03:32And so, you know, compared to, let's say, a Hollywood budgeted film,
03:36you know, this was shot in Japan,
03:37but we were very intentional to make sure we had the budget,
03:40the time, and the money to do this as well as we wanted to do it.
03:45So, Taneida-san, can you talk a little bit about your relationship to kubiki,
03:52maybe, as a starting point, just for your way into this, you know, epic world?
03:56Kabuki is something, yes, I've been watching for almost my life.
04:06And actually, over 10 years ago, there was a possibility for me to have worked on a kubiki film.
04:11It didn't happen then, but fast forward to now, everything kind of clicked in place,
04:16and I was able to help production design a kabuki film.
04:21What was most exciting to you about getting to design a kabuki film?
04:29Of course, it was challenging to create a kabuki stage.
04:36And just for context for everyone, kabuki and that stage was born in the Edo period,
04:42so over 300 years ago.
04:43So, to be able to recreate that was a great challenge.
04:48It's interesting to me that there really haven't been a lot of films centered on kabuki.
04:51Can you just talk a little bit about that, just in terms of getting this film made,
04:55why it hasn't been very common in Japanese film?
05:02Just to raise what has been created in the past.
05:05So, currently, Shochiku is a production company that owns a copyright to kabuki.
05:10And so, there's one way how that is produced, kabuki is produced in Japan,
05:15but also each house, each family, also passes down, as you probably learned from the film,
05:22they pass down their specific stories.
05:25So, that's how kabuki exists today.
05:28So, Shochiku has, in the past, created dramas.
05:32And, for example, director Mizoguchi has created kabuki films in the past.
05:37So, fast forward to now,
05:42director Lee wanted to create a kabuki film based on the Onnadata,
05:47which is the male actor portraying a female.
05:51And so, we did actually go to Shochiku, and we did meet with them.
05:55However, because our story was based on the novel,
05:58and not a different original story,
06:01they weren't that inclined to participate.
06:05So, we actually then approached the Nakamura family,
06:08who is a very...
06:10Nakamura Ganjiro.
06:10Oh, Kanjiro.
06:11Nakamura Ganjiro is one of the big kabuki actors now,
06:16and to actually get permission to work with his family, that lineage.
06:20Because in the kabuki world, as you can tell,
06:23it's very, very old,
06:24and you need some sort of insider connection
06:26in order to get the proper permissions.
06:28So, we ended up working with Nakamura Ganjiro's family in that lineage.
06:34Can you talk a little bit about the casting of the film?
06:37I mean, you have to have multiple actors playing these roles in a couple cases.
06:42It's a huge, again, ensemble.
06:44But really, these two boys and then men anchor the film in such a beautiful way.
06:52What did you think about the actors?
06:53I mean, we're really proud of them, for sure.
07:02So, Director Lee, from the very beginning,
07:05said that RyĆ Yoshizawa,
07:08who is the actor portraying Kikuo,
07:11because the director felt like Mr. Yoshizawa's portrayal
07:16really reflected the Kikuo of the original novel.
07:19So, that was our initial conversation that I had with the director,
07:23and that's where everything started moving casting-wise.
07:26So, not only is Kikuo a very challenging role to portray,
07:35Shunsuke, the adopted brother, best friend, and rival,
07:40that was also a very difficult role to cast.
07:44So, once RyĆ Yoshizawa said yes,
07:46we had to move on to Shunsuke,
07:48and, so myself and the other producer, Matsuda-san,
07:52and the director, we all sat down.
07:54And, currently, Ryusei Yokohama,
07:56who portrays Shunsuke,
07:58is quite the star in Japan.
08:00So, after some discussion with the director and the producers,
08:03we ended up landing on him.
08:07Because the film spans so much time,
08:11I'm curious if there was anything in the production design
08:13that you wanted to convey,
08:15just in terms of the evolution of Japan,
08:17we start in the 1960s,
08:20and maybe Kabuki's relationship to Japan
08:22as it evolves through time.
08:27So, we're talking 1965 to 2015
08:30is what we're tracking with Kikuo's life.
08:34And, throughout those years,
08:36we see the Kabuki stage.
08:38And, as I mentioned before,
08:40that Kabuki stage has not changed
08:41for the last over 300 years.
08:43So, for me, I saw it as
08:46how does the Edo era reflect
08:48at that certain decade?
08:50So, how does that Edo era stage
08:53look like in the 60s,
08:55then the 70s?
08:56And then, when we have the,
08:58when Kikuo has his final stage appearance, too,
09:01in the 21st century,
09:03what does that stage,
09:05down to the details, look like?
09:07So, for me, it was a relationship
09:09between that 300-year-old Edo stage
09:12and whatever decade we were looking at.
09:14So, that was kind of a time collaboration
09:16that I approached it with.
09:19Are there any details you can share,
09:21like specifics,
09:21that indicate that passage of time for you
09:24in the design?
09:25So, an example would be the main house,
09:36the Ogaki family house,
09:38which is the Kabuki family we follow.
09:41So, if you look at the little details
09:44in the living room,
09:45you might see different electronics.
09:47Every time we go back into that home
09:49throughout the ages,
09:51you'll see the electronics start being updated.
Be the first to comment