- 4 weeks ago
George Clooney, Grant Heslov, Ellen Kuras, Luke Davies, Christopher Abbott and Kyle Chandler joined 'First Look' on 'The Hollywood Reporter' to discuss their new Hulu series, 'Catch-22.'
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00:00Hi, I'm Bryn Sandberg, and welcome to First Look, Catch-22.
00:09I'd like to welcome the cast and producers of Hulu's new limited series.
00:13Today with me is Luke Davies, Kyle Chandler, Christopher Abbott, Ellen Kuras, George Clooney, and Grant Heslov.
00:21Let's dive in. So Catch-22 adaptations have been notoriously difficult to make.
00:26They've been attempted before. Why take another stab at it?
00:29It had been 40-plus years since the last attempt, and it felt like we're in a new era where we can tell bigger stories on TV.
00:38And it felt like a moment to say, let's do it, let's give it a try.
00:42How'd that work out?
00:44We're all sitting here, it all worked out well.
00:46And George and Grant, how did this project come to you? I know you got a call, right?
00:50We got a call about, do you want to do Catch-22? And we said no.
00:54And then we read Luke and David's scripts, and we thought they were absolutely fantastic.
00:59And we thought, well, now we have to, because you don't get good scripts all that often.
01:03And so, and then it was the process of finding, you know, a Yossarian.
01:08We couldn't find anybody good, so we got Chris.
01:12I thought that worked out.
01:13I'm not expensive.
01:15He's the best available.
01:16He's the best available.
01:17For the price.
01:18Great.
01:19For the price.
01:20And Grant, for you, what was your reaction when you first read Luke's script?
01:23Well, the funny thing is, is that we got the script, George and I received the scripts,
01:27and I was reading the first episode at home, and he was reading it.
01:30And after he had read the first episode, we called each other and said,
01:34what do you think?
01:35This is amazing.
01:36Let's read the next one.
01:37And we read the whole, we kept calling and reading and calling and reading,
01:40and by the end we said, we got to do this.
01:42Yeah.
01:43Or if they'll let us do it, we got to do this.
01:44Yeah.
01:45Well, and obviously a film adaptation would, you know, happened in, I think, 1970s.
01:50Sure.
01:51I expected that.
01:52Yeah.
01:53How old were you, 1970s?
01:54And I know that, I think I read, he said in a Time interview that it felt like during
01:57production he was pregnant with a dead child.
02:00Which is such a lovely way of putting it.
02:01Yeah.
02:02It's bad for the promotion of the film.
02:04Yes.
02:05Very poor.
02:06And the film was sort of forgotten.
02:07I'm curious what sort of hesitations you had going into this because of those past adaptations.
02:12It wasn't so much the past adaptations, just that it's a revered book by many,
02:17many.
02:18And so you just want to, you want to do it justice, but at the same time you want to find
02:22a way into it that feels new and fresh.
02:25And that's what the scripts did.
02:27And then I think that as we were shooting them and working on them and casting it, that
02:31was sort of, that was the goal to sort of reinvent it in a way.
02:34It was a, listen, it's a, the process itself is tricky, right?
02:38Because you're always going to be held up against a novel that's beloved.
02:42And so you're always going to be sort of playing defense in a way.
02:46And so we thought, well, let's just take a big swing and see what we can do.
02:50And we knew that we had good script, good actors, you know, talented people around it.
02:56So let's see how bad we can screw it up.
02:58Decent actors.
02:59Decent.
03:00Decent.
03:01Cheap.
03:02Cheap.
03:03These actors.
03:04Actually, Kyle was not cheap.
03:05We didn't tell Chris.
03:06I figured that.
03:07We paid Kyle all of your money.
03:08Yeah.
03:09You had to balance out.
03:10Well, we needed Kyle.
03:11Right.
03:12Then you had like 10 bucks left.
03:13Cause we could get, I mean, there's a, you throw a rock and you hit a bunch of you over
03:16there.
03:17We had to pay ourselves as actors.
03:18I'm very worried about that.
03:19And yes, we had to pay ourselves as an actor and I'm not cheap, you know.
03:22I know.
03:23Nor am I.
03:24So Chris, tell me about how you came into us and what it was like to walk in with these
03:29big stars.
03:32Big?
03:33Formerly big.
03:34Used to be.
03:35Two times sexiest man alive.
03:36Two times.
03:37Right.
03:38What was your joke about?
03:39Oh yeah.
03:40Sexiest man still alive.
03:41AARP.
03:42Sexiest man still alive.
03:43Yeah.
03:44Thanks.
03:45No, but you know, it was, it was just classic audition, you know, process.
03:49Although I was lucky enough that it wasn't much of a process.
03:52I just kind of had to go in once for George and Grant.
03:54So that was nice.
03:55Um, I've told this anecdote often enough, but George broke the ice by greeting me with
04:01a leather helmet on.
04:02Huh.
04:03So straight, you know.
04:04I wear it often.
04:05Well, you never know if something could fall.
04:08Yeah.
04:09We often, when we're writing, we usually write in our leather helmets.
04:10Yeah.
04:11Cause we do a lot of this.
04:12Yeah.
04:13Right.
04:14Is this from that movie that you directed?
04:15Yeah.
04:16We had big flops and we always like to like remind ourselves when we've had big flops
04:20and so.
04:21I wear the Batman outfit a lot too.
04:22Yeah.
04:23Just the nipples.
04:24That was for Kyle's audition.
04:25Yeah.
04:26Yeah, that was for Kyle.
04:27Oh, you got the Batman suit.
04:28Kyle, come on in.
04:29I'm wearing a rubber bat suit.
04:30Come in.
04:31When Chris came in, you know, we were, had been reading people and, and Chris came in
04:35and probably after the second line, George and I, we looked at each other and.
04:40You mean like this?
04:41Yeah.
04:42We, we, we sort of knew, we knew.
04:43Yeah.
04:44Yeah.
04:45I thought they were talking and not paying attention.
04:47It really bothered me.
04:48We were talking.
04:49Yeah, I know.
04:50Yeah.
04:51And then for Luke, I know that when you wrote this script, did you feel like you had to
04:55rewrite these female characters?
04:56We felt, we, we wanted to be reverential to this iconic novel, one of the great novels
05:01of the 20th century.
05:02We just felt that we had to expand the world, not just imitate the kaleidoscopic kind of chaos
05:08of the book, but lay it out in chronological orders so that all our characters could actually
05:13have kind of an emotional journey through time and space.
05:17And that included their relationships with the, with the women in the novel.
05:21There are not many, but we wanted to give them a greater sort of three dimensional depth.
05:25And you know, the, uh, nurse Duckett, who, uh, is played by Tessa Ferrer, first of all,
05:31I think probably the most moral character in the, in this thing.
05:34And she also happens to be my, my cousin.
05:37So put that in your private story.
05:39Really?
05:40Yeah.
05:41Wow.
05:42I didn't know that.
05:43She's a wonderful, she was on Grey's Anatomy and stuff like that.
05:44She's a wonderful actress, but you know, we do try to keep the family working.
05:48Yeah.
05:49Yeah.
05:50Yeah.
05:51What I loved about having the female characters in this version was that they're much stronger
05:57than they were in the book and they're very well defined.
06:00And they actually have a sense of themselves, a presence that, that you don't find in the
06:05book or in the movie.
06:06And you know, it's, it's what I love about nurse Duckett is that, you know, she almost has
06:10the upper hand with your Saurian and she is manipulating the situation to her advantage
06:16in some ways.
06:17Mm-hmm.
06:18You know, so it's really was great to work with both actresses, you know, to be able
06:21to shape that, you know, shape that tone.
06:24Mm-hmm.
06:25Mm-hmm.
06:26This also helps Ellen, you know, bringing Ellen on and having her come in as a, as a director
06:30on this was specifically because we needed, we wanted to have a point of view, not just
06:37from, you know, a bunch of old guys.
06:40I think that that was sort of another version of it.
06:42Well, old enough.
06:43Francis, who are you talking about?
06:44Speak to yourself.
06:45You got some grey in your beard now, buddy.
06:46Yeah.
06:47And, and so that was really important.
06:49And Ellen had a, Ellen's, what she brought to it was really helpful and changed sort
06:54of the point of view in a lot of ways.
06:56Well, what's interesting about the novel is even though it takes place during World War
06:59II, it's, it still feels very timely and relevant.
07:02Mm-hmm.
07:03So what was it that, what do you think it is about this material that, that still works
07:07in 2019?
07:08From my perspective, it's a, it's a universal set of facts.
07:15People caught into a reality that is just absolutely absurd and that of, I mean, in this case, it's
07:23a world war going on.
07:24These people are in a, in an area where they're going out every day to possibly more than likely
07:29not come back again.
07:30And realities are changed and fixed and new realities are created.
07:34And, um, uh, say nothing about the bureaucracy that keeps it alive.
07:38The politicians back overseas who are making it happen.
07:41The, the, the unrealities of this absurdity that is reality looked through an absurd lens to
07:49give us some humor into it.
07:50Mm-hmm.
07:51And when I read the book, I offered it to a friend of mine who was in the military.
07:54And I said, tell me what you think about this.
07:56Cause I see it and I get it and I, I find things in it, but you tell me.
07:59And he said, Kyle is one of the funniest books I've ever read.
08:02So it was really interesting getting the perspective.
08:04It's universal.
08:05A Roman, I think could, uh, a Roman fighter could, could laugh at this or, uh, you know, a
08:10gentleman today who's, uh, who's been there and seen that absurdity.
08:14And I thought Luke brought out what was in that book and brought it down to what it is
08:19in the limited capacity with the characters.
08:22It's, it's beautiful.
08:23It's beautiful to look at.
08:24Yeah.
08:25He did a beautiful job.
08:27Yeah.
08:28It's absurdity is really sort of the key to this whole thing because why it's relevant
08:33now is that, you know, the minute we think that the, that there's anything normal about
08:39old men usually making decisions and young people dying, uh, the minute that's normal,
08:45we have a problem.
08:46And it's so important to remember that this is something that has to be argued about endlessly.
08:51Um, is that, that, uh, yes, there have been righteous wars, but those righteous wars were
08:57started by absurd, ridiculous, uh, actions.
09:01So it's always going to be that.
09:03And I think that that never gets old to talk about.
09:05Yeah.
09:06And it's not just about the insanity of war.
09:08It's also about the insanity of the big bureaucratic structures that enable that insanity to happen.
09:13So.
09:14Well, speaking of those, I mean, we live in sort of absurd times right now.
09:18What do you mean?
09:19We're not talking about.
09:20It's fine.
09:21Everything's normal.
09:22People in power and people in power.
09:23Uh-huh.
09:24What do they do with that power?
09:25Uh-huh.
09:26You know?
09:27And how people like, you know, sorry, and are, you know, at the end of that.
09:31But they're being, they're, they're having to bear the consequences of whatever actions
09:36from those people who have the power to be able to, to make decisions over them.
09:40So.
09:41So should we suspect or expect any, uh, any veiled Trump references in, in the show?
09:45No, we don't have any, you know, listen, there's enough of absurd, absurdity in our lives right
09:51now that we didn't really need to reference it.
09:53I think everybody understands that.
09:55It's not just here.
09:56You look at what just happened in Brazil.
09:58You look in the Philippines, you look in, uh, Hungary.
10:01I mean, go down the list, uh, authoritarianism, crazy, you know, yeah, Venezuela, obviously,
10:07you know, there's plenty of that around.
10:10So you don't really need to reference any of it.
10:12It's always sort of hovering over the feeling of like, wow, we're in strange times.
10:16So I, I didn't think that that was a necessary thing.
10:19Necessary thing to include.
10:20Well, and, and George, for you, you've obviously done, been a part of several TV projects since
10:25you are, but this is sort of being billed as your big return to TV.
10:28Yes.
10:29It's my return to TV.
10:30Enjoy that.
10:31Does it feel this, that way to you though?
10:34I really, I, I thought I should have like a Tierra or something when I got her, like a something.
10:38I don't know.
10:39Nothing.
10:40There was nothing by the way.
10:41By the coffee.
10:42Oh, is that by the coffee?
10:43Bring it out.
10:44They're gluing it.
10:45Bring out the Tierra, please.
10:46Yeah.
10:47They're gluing my Tierra right now.
10:49Um, no, I, I, it's funny.
10:50I didn't think of it that way because I have been working in television on and off through
10:54all these years.
10:55Um, I don't care about the medium.
10:58Uh, the medium has changed considerably.
11:01Uh, when Grant and I did Good Night and Good Luck at Warner Brothers, you couldn't make a
11:05$6 million black and white film at Warner Brothers anymore.
11:08You know, it would be at Hulu or Netflix or someplace else because that's just the nature
11:12of it.
11:13And so the times have changed.
11:14That's okay.
11:15I don't care about how we see the things.
11:18I care about the ability to make them.
11:20And there's a lot of options now.
11:22Um, this couldn't be made into a movie because you need the six episodes to tell these stories.
11:28Oddly enough, we considered this a movie.
11:30I mean, we considered a sort of a six hour movie, each episode sort of moving that arc
11:35along.
11:36And we always talked about it that way.
11:38Yeah, we didn't, it was a, it was a pretty odd experience for, I think for the actors in
11:42particular, because the three of us are sitting in three directors chairs with a monitor all
11:47day, every day.
11:48And because it's cross boarded, you know, it'd be like, all right, go.
11:53And if I don't, if I take too long, I've totally screwed these two on the shots for the
11:58rest of the day.
11:59Because you had a real responsibility to one another, you know.
12:02Right.
12:03To be on time.
12:04Well, speaking of that, Chris, you were in almost every scene, right?
12:07Yeah.
12:08So you, and with the cross boarding, you were having to jump from episode one to episode
12:12six to episode three, doing costume changes in tents.
12:15What was that experience?
12:16He didn't wear a lot of costumes.
12:18I was going to say, there's a lot of.
12:19Sometimes no changing necessary.
12:20Not in six.
12:21Yeah.
12:22There's quite a bit of male nudity in this.
12:23Were you prepared for that?
12:24I did.
12:25I read it.
12:26You read it?
12:27I knew.
12:28You started working out immediately?
12:29I knew that was in there.
12:30I was, yeah.
12:31I was hoping they would just forget about it by the time you started shooting.
12:33You look very good naked though.
12:34I want you to know that.
12:36That's most important.
12:37And that's what I want people at home to take away from the show.
12:39Also, instead of like Emmys or anything like that, we're taking out ads for Chris,
12:44for your consideration, Sexiest Man Alive, 2020.
12:47Yeah.
12:48Great.
12:49Okay?
12:50Okay, great.
12:51I appreciate that.
12:52Pick up the mantle.
12:53Yeah.
12:54We'll get it for you.
12:55Don't worry.
12:56But no, I mean, look, the nudity in this thing couldn't be more justified.
12:57You know what I mean?
12:58It's not about, you know, it's, even though just Aaron says in the show, it's not a protest,
13:03but it's a reaction to, you know, his, what he's going through and his psyche and means
13:10what it, what does it take to break someone down this far?
13:13You know, and it's, it's a reaction to that.
13:15It's not gratuitous.
13:16Correct.
13:17Yeah.
13:18We do have some gratuitous male nudity, the shower scene with all the guys.
13:21Yeah.
13:22We just did that.
13:23Right.
13:24We didn't have to do that.
13:25You didn't have to do that.
13:26That was my episode.
13:27That was your episode.
13:28I made sure I was on set that day.
13:29Yeah.
13:30You guys got out of it somehow, but.
13:31Well, nobody asks us to be nude anymore.
13:32Have you noticed what happened to us?
13:33Yeah.
13:34They saw me nude there and now go.
13:35Yeah.
13:36What happened?
13:37No sin, no nudity.
13:38Yeah.
13:39You showed up.
13:40He came up.
13:41He had a towel on.
13:42He's like, is this time?
13:43Yeah.
13:44Yeah.
13:45They don't ask us anymore, Kyle.
13:46I don't believe that.
13:47I don't have a hard time.
13:48Uh, times have changed.
13:50Yeah.
13:51So you, but you had to be in all of these scenes.
13:53So was that sort of just a whirlwind for you?
13:55I'm sure it all blends together.
13:56It was.
13:57Yeah.
13:58No, absolutely.
13:59It was intense.
14:00I'm not an actor that complains about acting work often, but you know, I, I'm not, but
14:05it really, it was hard.
14:06It was different.
14:07You know, it was a lot to do.
14:08We would shoot episode one and then the next scene, something from episode six.
14:12But again, I kind of at least knew that going into it.
14:14So I had time to kind of prep myself for it.
14:17And I kind of prepared it almost like I would a play, you know, just so I can be as ready
14:23on top of things.
14:24What was the hardest?
14:25Was it the, I would imagine that the stuff on the plane was the hardest, but was that
14:29the hardest?
14:30To do, to act?
14:31Just because you were, we were doing that so fast and it was so many episodes and so
14:35much like screaming and yelling and all the technical and all that stuff.
14:40I think the, well, I think, I don't know.
14:41I think the hardest thing was just, and you know, I would get help from, from all you guys,
14:46but like just keeping track of the arc of the whole thing.
14:49Yeah.
14:50Cause it's so, I think it's really easy.
14:51I think, you know, as actors too, it's really easy to swing, try to swing for the fences
14:54every scene.
14:55You know what I mean?
14:56Cause let's say you have a big scene in one day, you're like, all right.
14:58But you got to make sure you kind of measure it and keep, keep track of what's going on
15:02for over six hours, you know, plus or minus.
15:05Honestly, this, the big question is who, which one, who's your favorite director?
15:09Who's your favorite director?
15:10Right.
15:11You don't have to answer that question.
15:13I'm going to do this for the cameras and then I'll voice over in later.
15:18Like you can tell me later in private.
15:20Oh man.
15:21I loved.
15:22Well, thank you.
15:23Yeah.
15:24Just say, we'll say thank you.
15:25We'll figure that out later.
15:26Well, and like the novel, the, the show has such a heightened reality quality to it.
15:31I'm curious for, for you directors.
15:33Maybe I'll start with you, Ellen.
15:34How did you translate that to the screen?
15:36Well, we had talked about it before, you know, we talked about the visual approach
15:40and how we wanted to make it more cinematic, but also to keep it as real as possible.
15:45So when we did move to the stage and we were in the, in the planes, the mockup of the planes,
15:51the real planes that were on stage, you know, we knew that we wanted to keep it real.
15:55And so all of the energy performance wise had to be in keeping with that.
16:00And, and we, you know, oftentimes I would say, do we think that's enough?
16:04You know, because we would, you know, go back and, and just test to see, you know, how,
16:10what the timber was.
16:11And as Chris was saying, to keep the arc of it going.
16:14Sure.
16:15It's also an interesting part of it.
16:16What, what Ellen's saying was the trick is also making sure that all the actors are acting
16:20in the same movie, right?
16:21Same story.
16:22Yeah.
16:23Because that's the trick.
16:24One of the things Mike used to talk about, Mike Nichols used to talk about with the film
16:28was that there were, there were people doing different kinds of films.
16:33Yeah.
16:34You know, Alan Arkin is very different than Orson Welles in that film.
16:38It's fine.
16:39It makes it sort of a really interesting thing to watch, but for this, for the continuity,
16:43we needed everybody to be, so you could heighten like Cathcart.
16:46There's nothing subtle about Cathcart or Shyskov for that matter.
16:49It's sort of off the, off the chain, but if you watch what Kyle does with it, it's always
16:55centered and based on, in reality, which saves you and really helps.
17:01And that also is, you're helped by a lot of really good actors and these two.
17:04You can't, you can't play, you can't play satire.
17:07You know, I mean, it's in the right, I mean, it's in the writing.
17:09So you, all you, then all you have to do is kind of play it honestly, then whatever,
17:14anything satirical will just come out if you just, you know, commit to it.
17:17Well, and George, you mentioned those two characters.
17:19I know initially you were, you were going to play the character that Kyle ended up playing.
17:23Thank God I didn't, huh?
17:25Well, I'm curious about the decision to, to maybe step back a little bit and play the character.
17:30Well, this was early on in the process and we started, as we looked at it, you know,
17:35to exec, produce, and direct these.
17:38It was too much because the other thing we realized, once we realized we were all going
17:42to be cross-boarding this stuff, meant that we were all going to be on the set all the time.
17:48So there was never going to be a chance to do it.
17:50And I wasn't capable, I didn't have the bandwidth to do all of that.
17:53And all kidding aside, I could never have done anything near what Kyle did.
17:59I was, the very first day of shooting, it was your episode, wasn't it?
18:03Yeah.
18:04You know, when Kyle shoots the gun off in the air.
18:06Yeah.
18:07And he does this long, you know, we just threw him into the.
18:10That was my first day shooting too.
18:12Yeah.
18:13That's what I was saying, just threw him into the fire.
18:14Yeah.
18:15And he just knocks it out of the park.
18:16And again, Grant and I were like.
18:17It's such a relief.
18:18It's such a relief.
18:19It is.
18:20It really is a relief.
18:21Like you go, oh, we're going to be fine.
18:23Yeah.
18:24You really embodied that character, Kyle.
18:26Yeah, that was fun.
18:27Well, when I first got up there, I was, I was pretty nervous, I got to admit.
18:30And yeah, I did see you guys back there laughing.
18:33I was like, oh, Christ.
18:34Yeah.
18:35And that was the dramatic scene.
18:37Yeah.
18:38Well, and how did you get roped into it, to this?
18:40I heard you got a, was it a call from George or Grant or.
18:43I got a call saying that, that George Clooney is going to give you a call.
18:46He wants to talk to you about something.
18:47Oh, Christ, what have I gotten myself into?
18:50Yeah.
18:51But.
18:52Odom money.
18:53Yeah.
18:54Gambling bet.
18:55No, I was, look, I was, you know, when I read the, when I read the script, it was,
18:59it was, it was, you didn't have to read far into it.
19:02It was, it was all there.
19:03It was exciting.
19:04It was, it was a great challenge and it was a work with these guys.
19:07It was sort of a no brainer.
19:09You don't say no.
19:10And you wanted to go to.
19:11You jump.
19:12You wanted to go to Italy.
19:13You wanted to go to Italy.
19:14Well, that too, yeah.
19:15But you know, that's the other part of this that's so much fun is when you see,
19:18you know, Kyle's doing these beautiful speeches on Friday Night Lights and they're inspirational.
19:24And it's like the Gipper and you're like, he's great.
19:27And he's Jimmy Stewart.
19:28You know, you love him.
19:29And to have him be this maniac is absolutely a blast.
19:34And that was, I mean, I didn't know how far he was willing to go.
19:38I don't think any of us did.
19:39And then when you started it off, you were like, oh, this is going to be insane.
19:43It's the most fun I've had in a long time.
19:45Yeah.
19:46It was really fun.
19:47And, and I've said, you guys set the tone for allowing everyone to have a great time,
19:52feel safe.
19:53And it was almost demanded.
19:54Everyone has a good time.
19:55So.
19:56Well, yeah, these are, these are quite a departure from your Coach Taylor pep talks back in the day.
20:01Yeah.
20:02Different version of it.
20:03It's looking through the lens of absurdity.
20:05Did you ever shoot a gun in the, in Friday Night Lights for the kids?
20:08Not even, not even the starter's pistol?
20:10No.
20:11Never had the chance.
20:12You did some yelling though.
20:13You did do some yelling.
20:14Yeah.
20:15Starter's pistol.
20:16Whatever.
20:17That's how they start games.
20:18I want to say something to you though.
20:19Last night when I was watching it, something caught me way off guard.
20:22There were more moments of emotional contact for the audience than I had anticipated.
20:29And because I didn't know what, you know, you're out there doing and I'm, you guys are doing.
20:33And watching it, like just the scene on the plane.
20:37Awesome.
20:38Yeah.
20:39You get off that plane, walking along as you're saying, naked.
20:42It's so deserving.
20:43And man, the way you guys put that together and the way you perform that up to that.
20:48You don't expect that you get a tear in your heart.
20:51Yeah.
20:52And you feel so much.
20:53Like I can start to get a chill thinking about it.
20:55Just, it was incredible.
20:56It was just wonderful.
20:57I mean, it's just amazing.
20:58The kid Harrison who plays Snowden.
21:00Yeah.
21:01Literally, he's a British actor.
21:03He worked two days.
21:04He literally came in and, you know, it was so unbelievably great.
21:09And the two of you in that scene were just, I mean, it was really.
21:11That's the payoff, you know, that's the payoff on the journey because, you know, he starts
21:16off this one way and by the end, you know, hopefully we're weeping for him.
21:20And that's really, that's the beauty of your performance.
21:23It's the beauty of your writing.
21:25Mm-hmm.
21:26Well, and Kyle.
21:27That's the beauty of the directing.
21:28Yeah, whatever.
21:29It was awful.
21:30Well, yeah.
21:31Kyle, for you, you had these long dialogue or monologue scenes, rather, that you had to
21:35memorize.
21:36I'm sure that was no easy feat.
21:37How did you go about?
21:38That was brutal.
21:39Getting it all in your head.
21:40We had cue cards for him.
21:41Yeah.
21:42It was just memorizing.
21:43Just memorizing.
21:44Yeah.
21:45Both these, he had, he had some.
21:47You too.
21:48Yeah.
21:49Also that five, that five page scene.
21:51Five page.
21:52Two of them.
21:53That was a hard scene.
21:54I'd have to do anything in that one.
21:55No, you literally had no lines.
21:57No.
21:58That's harder than you think, George.
21:59No, there's two.
22:00Don't you love it when actors say that?
22:01Yeah, right.
22:02It's very hard to have no lines in that scene.
22:03Yeah.
22:04Yeah.
22:05Fuck you.
22:06There was two five page scenes in that episode.
22:07Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:08Had a lot of lines.
22:09I just wasn't saying them.
22:10Yeah, you didn't say anything in either of them.
22:11I know.
22:12You're right.
22:13There's two long scenes that you don't say in.
22:14You say, in the first one you say a couple little asides.
22:17What does this become now?
22:18You had it easy.
22:19I think that's what we're doing.
22:20We're taking it all back.
22:21We're doing well.
22:22It's over.
22:23We had it too easy.
22:24Yeah, too easy.
22:25A lot of you have mentioned that it was fun to sort of play these insane, mad characters.
22:29Do you have a particular scene that stands out to you as a favorite?
22:33Well, I'd never shot an over the balls shot before.
22:37And that scene made me laugh a lot with the three of us in it.
22:41Because also, you know, it's been a long time.
22:44That's a French hunter, right?
22:45It's a long time since I've seen Grant act too.
22:47And so that was also really fun.
22:49It was a really good time.
22:50That one was fun to shoot.
22:51Yeah, it's hard.
22:52I mean, it was such a, in a nice way, it was such a wash by now.
22:56You know, just a hazy wash of shooting things.
22:58Yeah.
22:59It's hard to pick out one.
23:00I'll tell you the most difficult scene for me to shoot was the scene that we have together.
23:04That was brutal in the Catch-22 scene.
23:06Oh, the Catch-22 scene.
23:07Yeah, the Catch-22.
23:08That was brutal.
23:09You know it was brutal and it was hard.
23:12You know it was brutal.
23:13That's when you're actually explaining what a Catch-22 is.
23:16Yes, you did.
23:17But he got, last night, he got a round of applause after he finished that thing in my life.
23:20He did.
23:21Before he even finished it, people were applauding.
23:22Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:23I've never seen that in my life.
23:24Well, that's also because, you know, half the audience is my family.
23:27Yeah.
23:28It is true.
23:29And it was weird to have an applause light up too, which seemed odd.
23:32Yeah, yeah.
23:33Applause.
23:34It was tough to get that in the Chinese theater, but I did get that up there.
23:37You didn't get it.
23:38I was annoyed by that.
23:39Were you?
23:40No.
23:41Did I get anything?
23:42This was, of course, at the premiere.
23:43So this is people seeing the show for maybe the first time.
23:47Any reactions that really surprised you?
23:49No, more laughs than we thought in some of the stuff.
23:51More laughs, yeah.
23:52Yeah.
23:53It was just nice to be able to see it.
23:54I mean, we're not going to get a chance to see it on a big screen.
23:56You know, so.
23:57Also, look at it.
23:58Like, we only had two planes of all those V-25s.
24:02So we had to shoot that and tile it and constantly keep putting them in to make it feel like something else.
24:08And we had a really wonderful cinematographer, Martin, and an incredible visual effects guy.
24:13And we wanted it to look like, we set a style based on, like, the World at War and all those old TV series.
24:22Because that's how you know, that's how we know World War II.
24:25It's not clean and pristine and stuff.
24:27Like, so we wanted it to be shaky and moving zooms and rack focuses and catching up a lot style-wise.
24:34And so it was tricky to try to put you in that place again.
24:38So that was part of our challenge.
24:40I urge everybody to watch it on the biggest screen possible that they have.
24:45Because it really.
24:46My phone.
24:47Also, a quick shout out to David Grotman, too, who designed.
24:50Oh, yeah.
24:51I mean, I can, like, everything felt so lived in and real.
24:54Yeah.
24:55Like, the details.
24:56Like, there was things in drawers.
24:57And, like, it was just.
24:58Yeah.
24:59That was amazing to me.
25:00Well, and going back to the planes for a second.
25:02I know you mentioned you had two of them on set, right?
25:05But, Luke, didn't you get to take a ride in one of them for research?
25:08Did I, am I making that up?
25:09I did, yes.
25:10What was that like?
25:11It was incredible.
25:12It was, two things happened.
25:13I'd already written the first drafts of the screenplay, of the scripts.
25:16And then when I went for that ride in the plane, I had to rewrite all the stuff inside the planes.
25:20Because I had imagined everything as being twice as big.
25:23And it was very, very claustrophobic.
25:25It was really loud.
25:26It was thrilling.
25:27And it was really easy to imagine how terrifying it must have been.
25:31To know that you were one little flak explosion away from the whole thing going down.
25:36It was like a rattle box.
25:38A very, very old fashioned hot rod experience.
25:41Also, people were smaller then.
25:43Men were smaller by a considerable amount.
25:46Weighed a lot less.
25:47Were shorter.
25:48So, like, that corridor that you have to slide through to come up from the bombardier front.
25:54You know, there aren't a lot of people that could do that.
25:58I wouldn't be a bombardier in real, you know, back then in real life.
26:01Yeah.
26:02You'd be a tail gunner or something.
26:03Something.
26:04Yeah.
26:05And Ellen, what was it like for you to direct?
26:06Did you direct any of those scenes that involved the planes?
26:09Oh, yeah.
26:10Oh, yeah.
26:11All of us.
26:12We all had planes.
26:13We had episodes two and three and there were a number of them where we, part of episode
26:18three has to do with the bombing of Bologna.
26:20So, we had to work up to that moment of knowing that this is, you know, the moment that he'd
26:27been waiting not to be in.
26:29Yeah.
26:30You know, when Chris was in that plane, we had to be able to feel that it was the most
26:34dangerous place that he was at at that moment.
26:38And when I went into the nose cone, I just couldn't believe it.
26:42I just thought, these guys are so exposed.
26:45You can see all around you and you're a sitting duck.
26:48Yeah.
26:49I mean, I can't imagine what the real men actually felt like when they were up there in the air
26:53and they're looking down and there's nothing between them except a piece of plastic.
26:56They used to sit on their flak jackets so that they wouldn't get their balls blown off.
27:00Yeah.
27:01I mean, it's pretty impressive.
27:02Unfortunately, he didn't do that.
27:03No, you should have sat in a flak jacket.
27:04No, I should have.
27:05No.
27:06But in a very different movie.
27:07Uh-oh.
27:08Well, speaking of different movies, you did give, George, you gave Chris some homework
27:11after he got the part right to watch a certain movie.
27:14Yeah.
27:15Was it, it was Mike Nichols.
27:16It was Colonel Knowledge.
27:17Yeah.
27:18Why was that?
27:19It's a very tricky role, right?
27:20Here's a guy who does a lot of pretty self-serving things.
27:25And it's very hard to root for a character that does so many things that are sort of dastardly.
27:32They're self-serving, I think is a fair way to say.
27:34Mm-hmm.
27:35Self-protecting.
27:36And Jack Nicholson is a really good example of an actor who can do rotten things and you
27:42still root for them.
27:43Sam Rockwell, when I did Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, the same thing.
27:47Some of it you just have.
27:48Some of it Chris just automatically has as an actor.
27:51And some of it I thought it's worth looking at performances where you still care about
27:58the character when they do really rotten things.
28:00Mm-hmm.
28:01And I just thought that was a good sort of heads up.
28:02Yeah.
28:03It was.
28:04Well, I'm curious if you all consider Chris's character an anti-hero.
28:08Yeah.
28:09Yes.
28:10Yeah.
28:11Yeah, of course.
28:12Yeah.
28:13You think he's a hero, right?
28:14I do.
28:15Of course you do.
28:16I do.
28:17You're supposed to.
28:18I'm supposed to.
28:19He's the same center of an insane world.
28:21Yeah.
28:22And that can be both hero and anti-hero.
28:24The two opposite forces clashing with each other.
28:27It's a catch-22.
28:28But it's embodied in the one person.
28:30Exactly.
28:31You know, do you save yourself or do you save others?
28:33Mm-hmm.
28:34And if you're dead, then you're not going to do, you're not going to be much service
28:37to anybody else, you know?
28:38If you guys want, I can do the catch-22 speech right now.
28:41That would really be.
28:42I actually bet you can.
28:43I would actually love if you tried.
28:44I know you tried.
28:45I would love to hear you attempt it.
28:47I couldn't even, I couldn't even paraphrase it.
28:50No.
28:51What's a catch-22?
28:52Exactly.
28:53I'm trying to feed you.
28:54I couldn't, I don't, I don't remember the line.
28:56I don't remember the lines the next day.
28:58Yeah.
28:59And Chris, with this role, I mean, you've been acting for a decade now and have done
29:03fantastic work.
29:04But this is a, this is a real leading man role that you've stepped into.
29:08It's a big part.
29:09And I'm curious, for those of you who have been here before, George and Kyle in particular,
29:14do you have any advice for that, somebody at that stage in their career?
29:19You want us to give him advice?
29:20Uh-huh.
29:21Please.
29:22I would, my advice was take your clothes off.
29:24Right.
29:25And you know, you did that.
29:26Did that.
29:27So we'll see.
29:28Any other good advice?
29:29Kyle?
29:30Don't take your clothes off.
29:31Did you say don't?
29:32No.
29:33Not again.
29:34No, do it once.
29:35Only once.
29:36Right.
29:37The work you're going to do, do it with the next thing.
29:38Just give him a little.
29:39Yeah.
29:40He doesn't need advice.
29:41Save your money, kid.
29:42Yeah, honestly.
29:43Save your money.
29:44That's actually good work.
29:45He needs advice, but not about that stuff.
29:46Yeah, he needs life advice.
29:47Not about acting.
29:48Yeah, yeah.
29:49Outside of this.
29:50Wine, food.
29:51Don't need advice.
29:52You're an actor, don't get tattoos.
29:53Right.
29:54And you guys shot this over the course of five months in Italy, which had to be a lot of
29:58fun.
29:59It was hard.
30:00Yeah, terrible.
30:01They do food bad.
30:02Yeah, the food.
30:03The wine.
30:04Food is terrible.
30:05No one had a better time than Kyle.
30:06I had a fine time.
30:07No one.
30:08Because he would work and then he would have some time off.
30:10Uh-huh.
30:11And he was at this beautiful hotel every day at the end of the day.
30:14He'd sit out there.
30:15Have a little rosé.
30:16Sunset.
30:17Well, now listen.
30:18It wasn't that easy.
30:19I mean, it was work still, but it was, you know.
30:23He has a little motorcycle.
30:25Did you ride a motorcycle around?
30:26We'd finish the evenings and sit out on the Mediterranean and have a martini and have
30:32my nightly cigar and listen to Hugh Laurie tell stories.
30:36Yeah.
30:37Sure he does that.
30:38Sure.
30:39Dr. Davey's here.
30:40It was enjoyable.
30:41It was enjoyable.
30:42It was beautiful.
30:43And his family came out.
30:44His beautiful wife was with it.
30:45He couldn't have had a better time.
30:46It was-
30:47It was like a paid vacation.
30:48It's one of those.
30:49Yeah, it's one of those.
30:50I mean, honest to God, it didn't even work.
30:52It is one of those.
30:53I mean, but, you know, look, I think we'd all be lying.
30:56You say part of the perks is getting to travel and do fun things and doing great work
31:00like this.
31:01And so finally, it all kind of worked out in a perfect balance.
31:06I mean, the amount of small movies that I've done in upstate New York, you know, which
31:10is great.
31:11Like, you know, I love like-
31:12No insult to upstate New York.
31:13No.
31:14My sister lives there.
31:15I visit her.
31:16I love-
31:17Yeah.
31:18Many of my friends are upstate New Yorkers.
31:19I grew up around there.
31:20I grew up around there.
31:21It's fun.
31:22I can say that.
31:23But it's like, finally, Jesus.
31:24Yeah.
31:25I finally get to go somewhere.
31:26Yeah.
31:27Also, we shot at Chinichita, which is a pretty cool, you know, one of the great movie studios
31:29of all time.
31:30Uh-huh.
31:31Exciting to be there.
31:32Yeah.
31:33What else did you do for fun when you had that leisure time?
31:36I crashed a motorcycle.
31:38That was fun.
31:39You did.
31:40Yeah.
31:41That was a really fun time.
31:42Thank God you were okay.
31:43I've learned that I really actually cannot fly.
31:46I learned that lesson really well.
31:48Grant and I both were in that one.
31:50Well, you did fly, actually.
31:51I did a pretty good job of it, though.
31:52Yeah, I didn't do bad, but-
31:54That was a great wreck in my life.
31:56Yeah, it was a good one.
31:57It got both Grant and I, after 40 years of riding together, off of motorcycles for good,
32:02which is-
32:03Yeah.
32:04That's a good one.
32:05But it didn't delay production at all?
32:07No.
32:08No.
32:09I was shooting down the street.
32:10I was back at work, like, four days later.
32:13That's incredible.
32:14To be that terrific and to almost go like this after.
32:17Yeah, yeah.
32:18It was pretty amazing.
32:19So you really don't ride anymore?
32:20I had to quit.
32:21I got- it was a bad- I hit him at 70 miles an hour, so, you know-
32:25I made a deal.
32:26I made a deal.
32:27I said- because, literally, as we were on the side, as I was holding him, I was waiting
32:31for the ambulance, I said to myself, if he lives-
32:34Yeah, it was bad.
32:35I'll never ride a motorcycle again.
32:36I mean-
32:37Split my helmet in half and knocked me out of my shoes.
32:40You know, I mean, I was- it hit hard.
32:42It was bad.
32:43So it was bad.
32:44And I was just waiting for the switch to turn off, because I broke his windshield
32:47with my head, and I thought, okay, well, that's my neck.
32:50And so a million- if you get nine lives, I got all of them used up in one.
32:55So I can- I can, like, go motorcycle riding for a while.
32:58Yeah.
32:59And Kyle, do you still ride?
33:00Yeah, before I answer that, though, I'd like to clarify when I said it was a good wreck,
33:04meaning that you walked away from it.
33:06Any wreck you walked away from was a good wreck.
33:08I agree.
33:09I agree.
33:10We got- we got into hang gliding, though, which is great.
33:12Yeah.
33:13We do- we do free solo now, too.
33:16It's called free solo.
33:20Well, this was fun.
33:21Thank you so much for being here, and thank you for watching.
33:24Be sure to watch Catch-22 streaming now on Who's Online.
33:27Thank you, Barry.
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