- 2 days ago
CTP (S3ENovSpecial4) From Liverpool Streets To Beatles Secrets With Historian David Bedford
Exploring more of the fascinating intersection of Activism, Community Engagement, Faith / Religion, Human Nature, Politics, Social Issues, and beyond
We trace Liverpool roots, chronic illness, and a serendipitous gift from Yoko Ono that set David Bedford on a path to uncover Beatles truths. From Brian Epstein’s role to skiffle’s impact, we challenge myths with local detail and studio history.
• life near Penny Lane and the Dingle shaping perspective
• misdiagnosis and fibromyalgia pushing a career pivot
• Yoko Ono’s donation to Dovedale School opening doors
• Brian Epstein’s influence and the real breakup dynamics
• George Martin, ADT, and four-track innovation
• the Quarrymen today and living Beatles history
• skiffle, Lonnie Donegan, and country roots in Beatle music
• favorite songs, lyrical origins, and Liverpool landmarks
• reflections on honesty in art and technology
Please like, share, subscribe. We need you to help spread the ChristiTutionalist movement https://tinyurl.com/SubscribeToCTP
Exploring more of the fascinating intersection of Activism, Community Engagement, Faith / Religion, Human Nature, Politics, Social Issues, and beyond
We trace Liverpool roots, chronic illness, and a serendipitous gift from Yoko Ono that set David Bedford on a path to uncover Beatles truths. From Brian Epstein’s role to skiffle’s impact, we challenge myths with local detail and studio history.
• life near Penny Lane and the Dingle shaping perspective
• misdiagnosis and fibromyalgia pushing a career pivot
• Yoko Ono’s donation to Dovedale School opening doors
• Brian Epstein’s influence and the real breakup dynamics
• George Martin, ADT, and four-track innovation
• the Quarrymen today and living Beatles history
• skiffle, Lonnie Donegan, and country roots in Beatle music
• favorite songs, lyrical origins, and Liverpool landmarks
• reflections on honesty in art and technology
Please like, share, subscribe. We need you to help spread the ChristiTutionalist movement https://tinyurl.com/SubscribeToCTP
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MusicTranscript
00:00Hello, welcome to another episode of Firstitutionalist Podcast.
00:06I am your host, Joseph M. Leonard.
00:10That's L-E-N-A-R-D.
00:12It looks French.
00:13It's not.
00:14It's Leonard without an O.
00:17Thank you for tuning in.
00:20As Graham Norton used to say on his show,
00:24let's get on with the show.
00:26Me too.
00:28Hello, everyone.
00:30Welcome to another Firstitutionalist Podcast.
00:35Welcoming me.
00:36Welcoming.
00:37This happens a lot.
00:40I hit record and the brain and the mouth.
00:43No, not welcoming me.
00:46I am welcoming to the show today,
00:49David Bedford,
00:52all the way over across the pond in England,
00:56a world-renowned Beatles historian, author, and filmmaker.
01:02And I tried to get him for March's Music Weeks.
01:10Yeah.
01:11But he's busy.
01:12It's now September.
01:15He's finally available, thankfully, to talk to.
01:19Who knows?
01:19We got the same year.
01:21That's not bad.
01:22Yeah.
01:22Yeah, right.
01:26Better late than never, as they say.
01:28Exactly.
01:29Yeah.
01:29And I'll try.
01:30It's been a hard day's night.
01:32Oh, perfect.
01:33You lead me into,
01:35I was just about to say,
01:36I'll try to avoid the obvious.
01:40Did you just come in from the strawberry fields?
01:43And how is your day in the life going, puns?
01:48Yeah.
01:48No, well, in my life,
01:49I've had so many of these things.
01:52Oh, God.
01:54We could go all day on this.
01:56Yes.
01:57That's both figurative and literal.
01:59I mean, he...
02:02Well, I'm just making a life in the day.
02:05How's that?
02:05Yeah.
02:05So, indeed, first,
02:09how are things across the pond?
02:12And by that, for U.S. listeners,
02:14I don't mean across the river in Windsor, Ontario, Canada.
02:18I mean over in Liverpool, England.
02:22Not Kidney Pool.
02:23That's the next town over.
02:26It's all good.
02:27It's all good.
02:27And I've spent the last 36 years living just off Penny Lane.
02:33Literally, I'm within half a mile of Penny Lane.
02:37And that's where I've lived for over 30 years.
02:39So, yeah, it's good.
02:40The sky is blue.
02:41Blue suburban skies in Penny Lane.
02:43What more could you want?
02:44Yeah.
02:45Right.
02:46You either had to either live near Penny Lane or Abbey Road, right?
02:52And Abbey Road is 200 miles away,
02:54so I'll stick with Penny Lane.
02:56Okay.
02:56So, let's back this garbage truck up.
03:03Beep, beep, beep.
03:04Where were you born and raised?
03:07We know the where you are now.
03:10But, you know,
03:11the down and dirty nitty gritty of, indeed,
03:15what got you to where you are now
03:18or how much time did he spend in prison for what?
03:21You know, inconclusive.
03:25That's what they said in the photographs.
03:27Inconclusive.
03:27So, that's good.
03:31My life started out,
03:34putting up with you being a Christitutionalist.
03:36My father was a vicar in the Church of England.
03:39So, I've grown up in the church.
03:41And what brought my dad to Liverpool was when he became a vicar.
03:46And so, the parish he became vicar of was St. Philemon with St. Silas,
03:53which is in the Dingle in Liverpool.
03:56And the Dingle is where Ringo Starr is from.
04:01Another nice connection, yes.
04:03Exactly.
04:04So, literally,
04:05because we had the house came with the vicarage,
04:09with the job.
04:10So, as he walked out of my back gate,
04:12he turned right 10 yards.
04:14That was Madryn Street, where Ringo Starr was born.
04:18So, almost literally,
04:20you were preordained to be a Beatles.
04:26I lived in the Dingle until I was 24.
04:28I actually went to the school that Ringo had been to,
04:31St. Silas.
04:33But I lived all around there until I was 24 years old.
04:37By which time, I'd been married nearly two years.
04:40And my wife and I,
04:41we were just looking somewhere to move to,
04:42to a bigger house to start a family.
04:45And not by,
04:47well,
04:47depends what you mean by design,
04:49but,
04:50the house we ended up with
04:52is literally just off Penny Lane.
04:54So, yeah,
04:54that's 36 years.
04:55That's where we've been.
04:56We've got three daughters born in the same hospital
04:59that John Lennon was born in.
05:01Wow.
05:02And they all attended Dovedale School,
05:05which is where both John Lennon and George Harrison
05:07attended.
05:09You couldn't possibly plan that.
05:15Exactly.
05:16I gave up,
05:16I gave up planning my life a long,
05:18long time ago.
05:19I would have made an absolute mess,
05:21well,
05:21more of a mess with it than it is.
05:22Yeah.
05:23So I stopped planning my life a long,
05:25long time ago.
05:26So you weren't born in Liverpool though.
05:28Where were you born?
05:30It's a place called Guilford in Surrey,
05:32near London.
05:34But I've been in Liverpool.
05:35Oh,
05:35I'm sorry to hear that.
05:37But I'm wrong.
05:38Yeah,
05:38no,
05:38somebody has to be.
05:40But we moved to Liverpool when I was four years old.
05:44So I've got no memory of anywhere else.
05:47This is all that I know is Liverpool.
05:50So it's always been my city.
05:52And never left.
05:53So indeed,
05:54the obvious next question is,
05:58how did God literally open the skies and say,
06:03you were going to be a Beatles historian?
06:06Or how did that come about?
06:08Well,
06:09this is where I say you,
06:10you couldn't have planned any of this.
06:13And it's,
06:14it's funny,
06:15you know where,
06:16where Paul writes about having a thorn in his flesh and he prayed for it to be
06:20taken away.
06:21And it,
06:21and God said,
06:22no,
06:22my strength's all you need.
06:24So a similar thing happened to me.
06:26So 25 years ago,
06:28I'd left school at 18,
06:30went to work for an insurance company.
06:33And I had a really good job.
06:35And then,
06:36started feeling ill at the end of 1998.
06:41They then decided I had rheumatoid arthritis.
06:45Starts when all kinds of medication and said at this rate,
06:48by the age of 40,
06:50maybe 50,
06:51you'll be in a wheelchair.
06:52So I was 35 at the time.
06:56And so I was in such a bad way physically that my doctor signed me off work for a month.
07:01And I never went back to work.
07:06And so that was definitely not in my plan was to be medically retired at 35.
07:13Wife,
07:14three young children,
07:15mortgage.
07:16Now,
07:17thankfully,
07:18because I worked for an insurance company,
07:20my salary,
07:23my job was insured.
07:26So they were able to give me a ill health pension.
07:30So suddenly you're thinking at 35,
07:32what am I going to do?
07:33And he said,
07:33you'll not be able to do a full-time job again.
07:36Right.
07:36Yeah.
07:37Not to interrupt,
07:38but yeah,
07:39I,
07:39I'm on disability have been since 2004 myself due to a myriad of health issues.
07:47You mentioned our a familiar with it.
07:51Father side of the family.
07:53My grandmother had it indeed was,
07:56she didn't,
07:58she got around on crutches though,
08:01but,
08:02but yeah.
08:03So sadly familiar.
08:06But the interesting thing was that my doctor,
08:11my rheumatologist was telling me,
08:13Oh,
08:14you're so much better.
08:15And I said,
08:16no,
08:16I'm not.
08:17And he said,
08:18Oh yes,
08:18you are.
08:19I said,
08:20no,
08:20I'm not.
08:21I said,
08:21I'm not bad.
08:22I can't sleep.
08:23I'm in pain.
08:24My doctor signed me off work.
08:25And he said,
08:25you should get back to work.
08:27You're a young man with a family.
08:29You should be ashamed.
08:30I went,
08:31I went to see my,
08:33my GP.
08:35And he said,
08:35I'm sending you for another,
08:36a second opinion.
08:38So this other professor,
08:40different hospital.
08:40And he said,
08:41you've not got rheumatoid arthritis.
08:43You've got none of the symptoms of it.
08:46Eventually it took another year.
08:47I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia.
08:50One of my many lists of problems.
08:55Yeah.
08:55Once again,
08:57sadly familiar.
08:58Yeah.
08:59Yeah.
08:59And there's,
09:00and it's hard to find other guys.
09:02You've got it.
09:03Cause it,
09:03I think it's less than one in 10 fibro sufferers are male.
09:07Yeah.
09:09And,
09:09and,
09:10and I,
09:12I understand your predicament.
09:15Like I,
09:16I'm sure your feeling was,
09:18I would like to go back to,
09:21that was my position.
09:22I,
09:23I don't want to be out of work.
09:26I'm not ready to retire.
09:28Uh,
09:28in 2004,
09:30I wasn't 35,
09:32but still I,
09:33I was planning on working another 20 years.
09:37My 401k was nowhere near built up enough to handle transitioning to a
09:44retirement at the age I did.
09:47And like you,
09:48what am I going to do?
09:51And I did always written my whole life.
09:55So,
09:55okay,
09:56well,
09:57I,
09:57I guess God is opening that.
10:00door for me to do that.
10:02Uh,
10:02I'd never written.
10:04And I was,
10:05I'd never been a writer.
10:07Um,
10:08I did a little bit.
10:09I did a little paperback writer,
10:11but I'm exactly.
10:12Yeah.
10:13Very good.
10:14So what you did there.
10:17Now that I've done a bit of,
10:19um,
10:19I did a little school magazine,
10:20went to school and I would put together our like little church parish magazine,
10:26but I'd never been a writer and like that.
10:30And again,
10:30this is where all the timings come together in a way that could never have worked out myself.
10:37So at the very month that I was signed off work,
10:41we were doing some fundraising for the local school,
10:45Duffdale school,
10:46uh,
10:46where my kids were.
10:48And the person who responded to our fundraiser was Yoko Ono.
10:54And Yoko got in touch and said,
10:57John loved his time at Duffdale.
10:58I'd love to support what you're doing.
11:01How much do you need?
11:02And we needed somewhere around 27,000 pound.
11:06Um,
11:06and she said,
11:07well,
11:07I'll give you a 30,000 pound.
11:09Do everything you need to do.
11:11Have a bit of extra money in the pot.
11:13Um,
11:14and then she made several visits to the school to meet with the,
11:17with the pupils.
11:19Um,
11:19I met her on a subsequent trip and actually met her in the house.
11:23John Lennon grew up in,
11:24uh,
11:25Mendips,
11:26uh,
11:26met her in there.
11:27And we've talked to some of the children from the school there and she was
11:30wonderful with the children.
11:31But with this,
11:32this moment in June,
11:342000 of me being signed off work,
11:37Yoko giving the money.
11:38I then met a former pupil from Duffdale who was in the year between John Lennon
11:44and George Harrison.
11:45I knew them both.
11:49He was,
11:50um,
11:51writing some of his story memories for a Beatles magazine.
11:55So I was chatting with him and he said,
11:58I've got this,
11:59but I can't use email.
12:01Cause of course we've gone back 25 years.
12:03It was dial up internet.
12:05I'll remember all that kind of funny noises.
12:07I'm a former it guy.
12:09So yeah,
12:10I've been online since the,
12:13the huge computer dial ups,
12:17300 baud days.
12:19I'm lying before there was such a thing as the internet.
12:22So yes,
12:22I know exactly what you're talking about.
12:24Yeah.
12:25So I was doing all that with work already.
12:27So I knew how to do all that.
12:29So I said to him like,
12:30give me your stuff.
12:31I'll email it to the editor.
12:32So I emailed it and I said to the editor,
12:35I said,
12:35by the way,
12:36Yoko's just given us this money.
12:38Um,
12:39would you be interested in the story?
12:41And he said,
12:42yeah.
12:42So I wrote my very first article,
12:45which is all about Yoko giving the money.
12:48And I said to the guy at the editor and said,
12:50look,
12:51is anybody covering Beatles events in Liverpool?
12:53Do you want me to do some stuff?
12:54He said,
12:55we'd love you to.
12:55And that's how it started.
12:57So it was that,
12:58that perfect coming together.
13:02Totally unplanned from my part.
13:05God saw a door closed.
13:07He opened the window and you thought enough to climb through it.
13:13And so it just became in a way,
13:18because my doctor was brilliant.
13:19He just encouraged me.
13:21Uh,
13:21and best advice he gave me was right.
13:24You've now got this diagnosis.
13:26It's chronic condition,
13:28chronic pain,
13:2924 seven the rest of your life.
13:31We don't know what causes it.
13:33So we can't cure it.
13:35We can only treat some symptoms.
13:37You've now got to manage your life around this.
13:42Yeah.
13:43Obviously physically I'd gone from,
13:45you know,
13:45being very active,
13:46playing various sports,
13:47running around with the kids and stuff to not being able to walk 50 yards
13:50without severe pain.
13:53And he said to me,
13:54right.
13:55One way is a looking at it.
13:57You could sit at home,
13:59be in pain,
14:00feel sorry for yourself.
14:03And that just become your life.
14:05Or if you find something to occupy your brain,
14:09your brain cannot be thinking of the pain at the same time.
14:12And it's thinking of other things.
14:15Distraction.
14:16Correct.
14:17Best advice I ever got.
14:19I'm always thankful to you.
14:21Keep your brain busy and it helps the body health or it may not improve it.
14:28But as you don't notice it,
14:30it helps distract from it.
14:33Yeah.
14:34It does.
14:35Yeah.
14:35It could preoccupy yourself with that.
14:38So you're kind of then ignoring the pain receptor signals.
14:44Exactly.
14:44That are indeed still firing in the head.
14:47But now you mentioned Yoko.
14:50So.
14:51Yeah.
14:51Gotta ask the question.
14:53Did Yoko break up the Beatles?
14:56No.
14:58In some ways.
15:00That's the answer I expected.
15:01But I gotta ask.
15:02I'm sure you've been asked a million times.
15:05Right?
15:06Yeah.
15:06And I'd actually say,
15:07I think she maybe prolonged the Beatles for longer than they would have done
15:12otherwise because John was so obsessed with it.
15:16If the other structure that Yoko can't come into the studio,
15:21can't come in with what we're doing,
15:23John would have said,
15:23fine,
15:23I quit.
15:25He would have stopped.
15:27So.
15:28Yeah.
15:29That is the best rebuttal to that that I've heard to date.
15:35So thank you for that.
15:36My pleasure.
15:37My pleasure.
15:38Because that is,
15:39of course,
15:41the,
15:42I,
15:43not,
15:44myth isn't the word I want,
15:46but the,
15:47the preferred narrative,
15:49the accepted reality is,
15:55oh,
15:55she did it.
15:57Right?
15:57Yeah.
15:57Everybody wants a villain.
16:00Now.
16:00Of course they do.
16:01And she was the perfect one for it,
16:03wasn't she?
16:05Yeah,
16:05in some respects,
16:06I'm sure.
16:07Yeah.
16:07That's,
16:08you know,
16:08to a lot of people and the way the press treated her,
16:14they kind of fed that villain narrative.
16:19She,
16:19they made her always look standoffish and full of hubris and wanting John,
16:27only for herself.
16:28And so we didn't all,
16:32especially outside of England,
16:35get a real,
16:37although they moved to New York later.
16:40Right.
16:40Uh,
16:41we didn't really get a good,
16:43clear,
16:44full,
16:45honest.
16:46No.
16:47Picture.
16:48Exactly right.
16:51Yeah.
16:52No,
16:52what broke up the Beatles was it began when Brian Epstein died,
16:57August,
16:581967.
17:00Brian was the glue that held them together.
17:02He was the only manager they'd ever have.
17:04He was the guy they trusted.
17:06He'd taken them from,
17:07you know,
17:08Liverpool.
17:09He was the only guy who could have got them out of Liverpool.
17:11You know,
17:11if there wasn't a Brian Epstein there,
17:13they never would have made it.
17:15He guided them.
17:16He did everything.
17:17And he's the only one that they trusted.
17:19Once Brian was gone and they're not touring anymore,
17:23they start going off and doing solo projects.
17:25And in a way,
17:27Paul is the one mostly who's trying to keep them together to find the projects
17:32and keep them going on stuff.
17:34So that changes then the balance.
17:37And it's like a power shift from John to Paul.
17:41Paul's not just a musician.
17:43Now he's,
17:43he's part manager,
17:44part musical director,
17:45and he's doing his best to keep them together and coming up with new
17:50ideas.
17:51Yeah.
17:51Well,
17:52that's always been the norm before them,
17:56during them and after them.
17:58I'm that groups don't last.
18:01There's always personality issues.
18:05You could be the best friends in the world and get on each other's nerves.
18:10Still.
18:11It's like family.
18:12It's like,
18:13look what happens to the brothers.
18:15No,
18:15the good thing of Don and Phil,
18:16you wouldn't speak for years and years.
18:18No,
18:19look at Oasis back on the road.
18:20Cause Liam and no didn't speak for years and years.
18:23Yeah.
18:24Well,
18:24eventually groups,
18:27if they're not together,
18:28as long as the Beatles were to have built up some reserves,
18:32if they do break up early in the process,
18:35they find,
18:37Oh shit,
18:38we're out of money.
18:39We got to go back to her.
18:40Yeah,
18:41exactly.
18:42I mean,
18:43what?
18:44The stones,
18:45other longevity groups,
18:50the who,
18:51I guess,
18:52but,
18:54there are exceptions to the rule for sure.
19:00Very much.
19:00Very much.
19:02So,
19:03I know it's like asking,
19:05who's your favorite kid?
19:08What's your favorite Beatle tune?
19:12Favorite Beatles,
19:12it changes a lot of the time,
19:15but I still think a day in the life is,
19:17is the absolute masterpiece.
19:19Holds up the best.
19:21It's just,
19:22just to,
19:24the genius of the two of them being able to take fragments of different songs and put them together.
19:29And create that with,
19:33with the other genius of George Martin in there,
19:35who,
19:36no,
19:36he was the fifth Beatle.
19:37He was the extra musician in the band.
19:40You know,
19:40he,
19:40he was that important to them to be able to come up with something like that.
19:44I think I read a quote somewhere that said,
19:46uh,
19:47from Freddie Mercury,
19:48saying you,
19:49we would not have got Bohemian Rhapsody.
19:51If we didn't have a day in the life.
19:53I've heard that quote before.
19:55Yes,
19:55absolutely.
19:56I mean,
19:57we wouldn't have a lot of other music,
20:00if not for the Beatles blazing the trail.
20:04Uh,
20:04they,
20:05right.
20:06Now for me,
20:07I have to say,
20:09because my sister was named after the song,
20:13not Eleanor,
20:15not Pepper,
20:17Michelle.
20:19Yeah.
20:21A great,
20:21great song.
20:22And well,
20:23I've always enjoyed trying to find where the,
20:27the songs came from,
20:28you know,
20:28and how they put them together.
20:30Um,
20:30which is why I love the song of Penny Lane,
20:32because I was able to prove that John Lennon wrote a verse in Penny.
20:37It's not all Paul's song.
20:40There's a song about the behind the shelter in the middle of the round about the
20:42pretty nurse is selling poppies from a tray.
20:46Though she feels if she's in a place,
20:47she is anyway.
20:48Well,
20:49the guy I was talking about before,
20:50he was writing about his story around Penny Lane and ducked out.
20:53But he told me who the pretty nurse was because he was stood next to her when
21:01John Lennon and his best mate,
21:02Pete Shotton came and spoke to her.
21:04And the girl's name was Beth Davidson.
21:07She was a nurse cadet,
21:08about 14 years old,
21:10selling poppies for Remembrance Day.
21:11And John and Pete Shotton go and talk to them.
21:16And the reason she's in the song is because Beth was the girlfriend of Pete Shotton
21:23and went on to marry Pete Shotton.
21:27So John Lennon put his best friend's wife in a Beatles song.
21:30And nobody knew.
21:31Well,
21:32I've got a book called how to write a book and get it published.
21:36It's tips and techniques.
21:37The saying goes back to write about what you know.
21:42You fictionalize things or you don't tell the whole tale.
21:48People don't need to necessarily,
21:50or like the old Dragnet show,
21:52the names have been changed to protect the innocent.
21:56Right.
21:57Or the guilty in some cases.
21:59Yes,
22:00exactly.
22:01But indeed,
22:02write about what you know,
22:03write about what you encounter,
22:06fictionalize it,
22:07fantasize it.
22:08Even a fantasy writer generally will take a scene from somewhere in reality.
22:19You have to.
22:19Right.
22:21So that,
22:22like,
22:23fictionalizing London then as a fantasy,
22:27you change the names of things,
22:29you change slightly definitions of buildings.
22:33But in order to keep it straight in your own brain,
22:38you need some root in reality to create that.
22:42Yes.
22:43Yeah.
22:43And that's why Penny Lane was so good because everybody was analyzing every lyric that they wrote.
22:50So they thought if we write about our childhood in Liverpool,
22:55nobody's going to be able to work it out.
22:58So they had all those things.
22:59They were all real places.
23:01It was all a very,
23:02very important place to them,
23:03but they could keep something for themselves,
23:06which nobody else could interpret.
23:07And so nobody's fully understood it until I was able to piece together the geography,
23:13the history,
23:14and all these elements together.
23:16Connecting all the dots.
23:18Yes.
23:18Yeah.
23:19And that's what I love to do.
23:20That's the fun thing.
23:22Fun part of what I get to do.
23:23So from what started is,
23:25in a way,
23:26it was almost therapy.
23:28It was something for me to do,
23:30having been signed off work.
23:32And suddenly there I was in Liverpool.
23:35And I just start then meeting people connected to the story of the Beatles and interviewing them.
23:40And coming back to how we started of,
23:44why I'm so busy.
23:46So I just published my ninth book connected to the Beatles.
23:51And this weekend,
23:52I've been in Germany.
23:55Because John Lennon's first group,
23:56the Quarrymen,
23:58I performed with two of the surviving members of the Quarrymen.
24:06I've gone from,
24:07I first met them over 20 years ago.
24:10I got them to come and play at Duffdale School.
24:13And because a couple of guys live locally,
24:15we've just got to know each other over the years.
24:16Over the last two and a half years,
24:18I've been performing with the Quarrymen.
24:23And it's just,
24:24it's so much fun.
24:27It is so much fun.
24:28So as well as,
24:30you know,
24:30getting to do all these books,
24:32you know,
24:33two documentary films,
24:34we've got a play I've been a historian for
24:36that's opening up in Liverpool in a couple of weeks' time.
24:38playing with the Quarrymen and say,
24:41doing all these things.
24:44If
24:44I just stayed in work
24:47and I hadn't fallen ill,
24:49I never would have done
24:51any of these things.
24:52Right.
24:52Oh,
24:53I think God
24:54knew in your soul
24:57you were an investigative journalist.
25:00And therefore,
25:01that's why this door,
25:03the door,
25:04one door was closed
25:05so that window could open
25:07for you to go through.
25:08Absolutely.
25:09And I like,
25:10I also like,
25:12love the Rat Pack.
25:13And in 2006,
25:15when I was in Vegas,
25:17thankfully,
25:18they used to play at the Sahara
25:21where the Rat Pack used to play,
25:23but they were at the Union Casino
25:26when I was there in 2006.
25:29And thank goodness,
25:30I got the chance to see
25:32the Rat Pack is back crew.
25:35And oh my,
25:36it's not like impersonators.
25:40It's like,
25:40oh my God,
25:41I'm seeing Joey Bishop.
25:43Oh my God,
25:44that's Dean Martin.
25:46Which is leading to the question,
25:49do you have,
25:50do you know,
25:51a favorite Beatles cover band
25:54or tribute band
25:56that tours about?
25:59And,
25:59well,
26:00there are so many of them.
26:02There would be.
26:04Yeah,
26:04there's two really good ones
26:06over in America.
26:08The best ones have been
26:09the Fab Faux,
26:11F-A-U-X,
26:12and Rain.
26:14Two of them who performed
26:15on Broadway,
26:20amongst other places.
26:20So they've been going for years and years.
26:23I go over to,
26:24I've been going to New Jersey
26:25to a Fest for Beatles fans.
26:29So I've done that maybe 10 times
26:30over the last 15 years.
26:33And there's a band there
26:34called Liverpool
26:34who are just the most
26:36phenomenal musicians.
26:37They can play any Beatles song.
26:40Absolutely brilliant.
26:41So I love them as well.
26:43Over here,
26:43we've got the Bootleg Beatles
26:44in Liverpool.
26:45We've got the Mersey Beatles
26:46and the Cavern Beatles
26:49from Liverpool
26:50who are all superb.
26:52Absolutely superb.
26:53And do they indeed
26:55do themselves up
26:57to look as best
26:58they can like them?
27:00Yeah.
27:01Yeah.
27:02There's a great one
27:03that we went to,
27:03I think,
27:04was it last year
27:04or the year before?
27:06And they had the Bootleg
27:06of the Beatles.
27:07So they've been together
27:08for about 25 years.
27:09and they performed
27:10with the Royal Liverpool
27:12Philharmonic Orchestra.
27:15And they did.
27:17The whole of,
27:19I think it was the whole of
27:20Let It Be an Abbey Road.
27:23Everything.
27:25Oh my goodness.
27:26It was just.
27:28It was like they were
27:29all still here.
27:32Yeah.
27:32Some of them are gone
27:34and performing together.
27:36It was as if it was
27:38a real Beatles reunion tour.
27:40Well,
27:41it is.
27:41And for me,
27:42who of course was too young
27:43to have seen them
27:44because I was only born 1965.
27:45So I never got to see anything.
27:48Oh,
27:48I'm glad you said that
27:50because that reminds me now
27:52I was going to mention
27:53and I forgot till you said being born.
27:57I was born in 62.
27:59And indeed,
28:01mom dragged me to Detroit Airport
28:04when the Beatles flew in.
28:06Ah,
28:07cool.
28:07There you go.
28:08So of course,
28:10I couldn't remember it,
28:12but I know I was there.
28:13You were there.
28:14Yeah.
28:14I didn't get any of that.
28:18So I had to live it vicariously
28:19and seeing tribute bands,
28:22but having the fun then
28:24of playing with the quarry men
28:26who were John's first group
28:29and because I've got to know them so well,
28:33we just tell stories
28:35of what it was like.
28:37And you think,
28:37yeah,
28:38it's just amazing.
28:40It's amazing.
28:40I was going to joke.
28:42This is all an act.
28:43We know you don't really like the Beatles.
28:46Who is your really,
28:47who really is your favorite band?
28:49So who is your second favorite band?
28:52Or,
28:53um,
28:55trying to throw you a curve there.
28:58Yeah.
28:59No,
28:59it comes out.
28:59It's either,
29:00it's either the Eagles
29:01or Bruce Springsteen.
29:04They're probably the two
29:05that I listen to the most,
29:07but there's a bit of the Beatles
29:10and the Eagles.
29:11Oh,
29:12we are absolutely right.
29:13Yeah.
29:13And from Bruce as well.
29:15Absolutely.
29:16No doubt.
29:16Um,
29:17but probably my fab four
29:19when I was growing up
29:20were a band called status quo.
29:21Now they never really
29:25made it in the States.
29:28That's why I'm saying who?
29:29Yeah.
29:30No,
29:30not the who.
29:31No,
29:31I've seen the who.
29:33I like them as well.
29:36Now,
29:36so status quo
29:37with the,
29:38the band that I grew up watching.
29:40Uh,
29:41I love it.
29:41And yes,
29:43I love the name.
29:44That's a good name.
29:45Yeah.
29:46Well,
29:46it keeps things up
29:47nicely,
29:48even keel,
29:48doesn't it?
29:48So yeah.
29:49And that's really,
29:51I mean,
29:52there's so many groups
29:54over so much time
29:57going back to
29:58when recordings
30:00were first invented
30:02that we could
30:03sing onto a recording
30:06and someone could play it back
30:08that it gets harder
30:10and harder.
30:10It's like going through
30:12the phone book,
30:13John public,
30:16Eleanor blitzkrieg.
30:18It's our band name.
30:20It's hard to come up
30:22with something
30:22more unique now.
30:24It is.
30:24It is.
30:25And because so many people
30:26can like record
30:27in their bedroom
30:28because technology
30:29has done that.
30:30If you go back
30:31and you just think of
30:32the quality of the recordings
30:34that the Beatles did
30:35and this way
30:37you give credit
30:37to George Martin
30:38overall,
30:40but then
30:40the engineers
30:41who work with them
30:42when you're working
30:43with just four tracks,
30:45that's all you've got.
30:47and the fact
30:49that you can go back
30:49and digitally remaster
30:50them
30:51shows how good
30:53the original recordings
30:54were
30:54and how good
30:56the four Beatles
30:57were as musicians.
30:58Yeah.
31:00Yeah.
31:00I capture a lot
31:01of it live.
31:02If we had
31:03today
31:04back in
31:05the late
31:0670s,
31:07early 80s,
31:08my dad
31:09had a polka band.
31:11They had
31:12a three record deal.
31:13So I wrote
31:15not polka music
31:16but I wrote
31:17and recorded
31:18country,
31:19pop,
31:19rock,
31:21music
31:21but indeed
31:23I was recording
31:25on a four track.
31:26Yeah.
31:26Yeah.
31:27Not that easy.
31:29Then came
31:30the eight tracks
31:31and no,
31:32we're not talking
31:32about the eight track
31:34layer in your car.
31:35I know what you mean.
31:36I had an eight track
31:37as well.
31:37If we had
31:38today
31:39where anyone
31:40can record
31:41directly
31:43multiple tracks
31:44a hundred tracks
31:46if you wanted
31:47into your laptop
31:49and release
31:51direct to the internet
31:52singles
31:53at 99 cents
31:54I'd still be
31:56writing and recording
31:57music
31:57rather than
31:58writing and publishing
31:59books.
32:01Yeah.
32:01Exactly.
32:02It's such a different world
32:03and that gives you
32:05a great appreciation
32:06for what
32:08these engineers
32:09were doing
32:09because at times
32:10the Beatles
32:11would go into
32:11a studio
32:11and say
32:12we want this
32:13and they'd say
32:14that doesn't exist
32:15yes but we want it.
32:18So one of the guys
32:18at Ken Townsend
32:20he was there
32:21from the first audition
32:23in June 62
32:23and was with the Beatles
32:26for many many years
32:27he invented
32:28I think
32:28ADT
32:29the automated
32:30double tracking
32:31so instead of
32:32having to record
32:33your voice twice
32:34he invented that
32:36so the Beatles
32:37could use it.
32:38There were a lot
32:39of people
32:39trying to run
32:41double four tracks
32:42and sync them
32:43which was
32:45a miraculous task.
32:48It was.
32:48Yeah.
32:49And that's
32:50they were having
32:50to come up
32:51with these
32:51ideas
32:52and inventions
32:53to try and keep
32:55pace because
32:55the Beatles
32:56were never satisfied
32:57with oh we found
32:59our sound
32:59like the Stones
33:00did.
33:01We like the blues
33:02and R&B
33:03we'll stick with that.
33:03no they didn't
33:05Well except for
33:06the disco area
33:08and the Stones
33:09released a couple
33:11disco songs
33:12but they
33:12Let's not go there
33:15with that.
33:16Yeah.
33:16We'll just not
33:17mention that.
33:19Oh I lost
33:20my chain of thought
33:21now I was gonna
33:22If every Beatles
33:24album
33:24was an evolution
33:26on the previous one
33:27it was something
33:28new
33:29and they weren't
33:31afraid to try
33:32something different
33:32they were never
33:34satisfied with
33:35oh this is good
33:36enough
33:36we can earn
33:37our money
33:37and we'll just
33:39we'll just
33:39churn out these
33:40songs and stuff
33:41now
33:41Right.
33:42Let's push the
33:42boundaries
33:42let's try something
33:43different
33:44with the fans
33:45something different
33:46Yeah I thought
33:48of what it was
33:49came back in my
33:50brain
33:51thank you for
33:51delivering that
33:52back
33:52Rush
33:54the Canadian
33:55rock
33:55spirit of radio
33:57all this machinery
33:59making modern music
34:01can still be
34:02open-hearted
34:03it's really just
34:04a question of
34:06your honesty
34:06yeah your honesty
34:08it's the same
34:09now with AI
34:10and book writing
34:12you can cheat
34:14but you're being
34:16dishonest
34:17are you an
34:19honest musician
34:20or a cheater
34:21are you an
34:22honest author
34:23writer
34:24or are you
34:25a cheater
34:25exactly
34:27no
34:27this whole
34:28thing of
34:29put something
34:30into AI
34:30and it'll
34:31write a book
34:31for you
34:32no I
34:33learned the
34:34hard way
34:34because I
34:36didn't even
34:37I had no
34:38book deal
34:38I was just
34:40doing these
34:41interviews
34:41because it was
34:43something to do
34:44and it's funny
34:45enough
34:45the reason I
34:46ended up with
34:46all these notes
34:47was one of the
34:48problems with
34:48fibromyalgia is
34:49short-term
34:50memory loss
34:51and so I'd
34:52start reading a
34:53book
34:53I get 10
34:55pages in
34:55I've forgotten
34:56what I've just
34:56read
34:57so I just
34:58started making
34:59notes and
35:00slipping them
35:01into the
35:01books so it
35:02wasn't till
35:03I'd been
35:04another reason
35:05why you
35:06want and I
35:07just got the
35:08proof of my
35:09eighth book
35:10christianals
35:11politics three
35:12third in the
35:13series based on
35:14the podcast
35:16you want a
35:17physical book
35:18so you could
35:18do that you
35:19can't do that
35:20in an e-book
35:21exactly right
35:23and that's why
35:24you know I
35:25remember when
35:25you know the
35:25e-books came
35:26out and said
35:27this will be
35:27the death of
35:29the book
35:29what do you
35:30do when the
35:31power goes
35:31out
35:32exactly right
35:33and the
35:34children they
35:35still want a
35:36book and
35:37adults still
35:38want to hold
35:38a book I've
35:39got a kindle
35:40it's great for
35:40skimming through
35:42stuff or if I'm
35:43on holiday but
35:45I've got a
35:45library for the
35:46book
35:47oh it can
35:47be convenient
35:48but yeah but
35:51something you
35:51want preserved
35:53you need the
35:54physical book
35:55and go back
35:57to the the
35:58cheating aspect
35:59then there's
36:00the other the
36:01other side of
36:02that coin is
36:03boston who
36:06oh we were
36:07you know they
36:08had they used
36:11organs but
36:12refused to use
36:13synthesizers and
36:14they do various
36:16tricks to make
36:18the organs sound
36:19like a synthesizer
36:21well why not
36:22just use this
36:23yeah I mean
36:24you're being
36:25too too
36:27yeah
36:27they're oh
36:29thank you
36:30that's the
36:31right word
36:32yes they are
36:33the antithesis
36:34of what rush
36:35was singing
36:36about there
36:37yes absolutely
36:37definitely because
36:39the beatles were
36:40pushing boundaries
36:41with technology
36:42but it didn't
36:43replace they
36:44were still
36:45three guitars
36:46and drums
36:47but they
36:48were adding
36:49in you know
36:50a moog
36:50synthesizer
36:51all this
36:52indian
36:52instruments
36:53they were
36:54things that
36:54would complement
36:55and add
36:56to attract
36:57to experiment
36:57with to make
36:58it sound
36:58different
36:59but you
37:00look at the
37:00last live
37:01performance on
37:02the rooftop
37:02it's still
37:04three guitars
37:05and drums
37:06plus they got
37:07billy
37:07presson on
37:07the organ
37:08yeah
37:09that's
37:10one of the
37:11things I
37:12love most
37:13about the
37:14beatles
37:14and kind
37:15of
37:16maybe there
37:17might not
37:18be a
37:18Mannheim
37:19steamroller
37:20without a
37:21beatles
37:21right
37:22a willingness
37:23to bring in
37:24all kinds of
37:25instruments
37:26others may
37:27never have
37:27even heard
37:28of
37:28exactly
37:29exactly right
37:30and they
37:31were saying
37:32you know
37:32don't just
37:33sit back
37:34and accept
37:34what you've
37:35got
37:35but that's
37:36one thing
37:37I love
37:37particularly
37:38with all the
37:38stuff with
37:38the Quarrymen
37:39is we
37:40perform the
37:40songs that
37:41John and
37:42the Quarrymen
37:42were performing
37:43back in
37:4456 to 58
37:45so a lot of
37:47it is the
37:48skiffle music
37:48and there's a
37:50guy Lonnie
37:50Donaghan
37:51have you heard
37:52of Lonnie
37:52Donaghan
37:52no
37:53okay
37:54so George
37:55Harrison said
37:56no Lonnie
37:56Donaghan
37:56no Beatles
37:57and he's
37:58right
37:58Lonnie
37:59Donaghan's
38:00the guy
38:00who changed
38:01everything
38:02in this
38:03country
38:03when it
38:04came to
38:04music
38:04because he
38:05invented this
38:06craze called
38:07skiffle
38:08and it was
38:10so simple
38:10it was all
38:11based on
38:12old American
38:13country
38:13American folk
38:15and blues
38:15songs
38:17really simple
38:17stuff
38:18he loved
38:19Lead Belly
38:21Woody Guthrie
38:22people like
38:23that
38:23and he was
38:25saying
38:25learn three
38:26chords
38:27there's a
38:28hundred songs
38:28you can play
38:29make your
38:30own instruments
38:31start a
38:32group
38:32and thousands
38:34of groups
38:34started
38:34in the
38:3650s
38:36because of
38:37Lonnie
38:37Donaghan
38:37and Skiffle
38:38and if it
38:40wasn't for
38:40him
38:41nobody had
38:42the concept
38:43of
38:43forming a
38:45group
38:45and going
38:46out to buy
38:47an instrument
38:47that didn't
38:48happen
38:48you had to
38:49go to
38:50proper music
38:51tuition
38:52learn to
38:53read the
38:54dots
38:54that was the
38:56only way you
38:56got into
38:57musicianship
38:58as a career
38:59but Donaghan
39:00comes along
39:00and says
39:01have some
39:01fun
39:02make your
39:02instruments
39:03you don't
39:04need a lot
39:04of skill
39:05just go and
39:06enjoy yourself
39:07that's how
39:08John Paul and
39:08George
39:09and most of
39:10the big
39:10musicians
39:11like
39:11Jagger and
39:13Richards
39:13like the
39:15guy Jimmy
39:16Page
39:16people like
39:18that
39:18they all
39:19started
39:19through Skiffle
39:21yeah I'm
39:23glad you
39:23mentioned the
39:24three chords
39:25thing it
39:26brings to
39:26mind to
39:27me the
39:27old Cheech
39:28and song
39:28Cheech and
39:29Chong joke
39:30song ear
39:31ache my
39:32eye right
39:33I only
39:33know three
39:34chords well
39:35that's actually
39:37the truth I
39:38mean you go
39:39through the
39:39entire Eagles
39:40to throw back
39:41to them
39:42their first
39:44best of
39:45record I
39:47had the
39:48songbook for
39:49that and
39:50indeed I
39:51could play
39:52the song
39:52because they
39:54mostly were
39:55the same
39:55chords but
39:57depending on
39:58how you
39:58arrange them
39:59and it's
40:00not what
40:02you have
40:02it's what
40:03you do
40:03with them
40:04and you
40:05because you
40:06mentioned
40:06country right
40:07the joke is
40:08always oh
40:09rednecks they
40:10don't really
40:10know they're
40:11all the same
40:12chords but
40:13reality is
40:15research has
40:17shown
40:17scientific
40:19studies have
40:20shown
40:20the biggest
40:22hits tend
40:24to have
40:24the same
40:25chords
40:26is that
40:29coincidence
40:30I think
40:31not
40:32now you
40:34mentioned
40:35country music
40:35so one of
40:36the books
40:36I've written
40:37is called
40:38the country
40:38of Liverpool
40:39Nashville of
40:40the north
40:40because we
40:43had the
40:43biggest country
40:43western scene
40:44here at the
40:44same time
40:45as beat
40:46music was
40:46taking off
40:46we had
40:48the biggest
40:49one in
40:49Europe
40:50was here
40:51in Liverpool
40:51because the
40:53roots of
40:53skiffle were
40:53in country
40:54music and
40:55the roots of
40:56the Beatles
40:56were in
40:57country music
40:57because what
40:59they all
40:59realised was
41:00take you think
41:02of someone like
41:02Hank Williams
41:03you can hear the
41:03beginnings of
41:04rock and roll
41:04already with
41:06Hank Williams
41:07think of the
41:08artists who
41:09influenced the
41:09Beatles
41:09okay so
41:11Carl Perkins
41:12Rockabilly
41:13Everly Brothers
41:14Buddy Holly
41:15Elvis
41:17all these guys
41:18all had their
41:19roots in
41:19country music
41:20and what
41:21these groups
41:22who started
41:23in skiffle
41:23realised was
41:24the same
41:25three chords
41:26played country
41:28songs and
41:30then played
41:30rock and roll
41:30it's the same
41:32three chords
41:33and so skiffle
41:33died out after
41:34a couple of
41:35years and
41:36so in
41:37Liverpool
41:37you were
41:37left with
41:38you either
41:39went down
41:39the country
41:40route or
41:40the beat
41:41route but
41:42a lot of
41:42the others
41:43did a
41:44mixture of
41:45the two
41:45and so
41:47country music
41:48was at the
41:49root of a
41:49lot of the
41:50Beatles music
41:50a lot more
41:51than people
41:52realise
41:52and a lot
41:53of gospel
41:54led to
41:55the country
41:56absolutely
41:57right
41:57yep
41:57it was
41:58well we
42:00could talk
42:01for a
42:01week
42:01I think
42:03we have
42:03I think
42:07we're 40
42:07minutes in
42:08I like
42:09to keep
42:10my shows
42:1030
42:11even a
42:12little
42:13less
42:13because I
42:14call it
42:14today's
42:15Twitter
42:15attention
42:15span
42:16right
42:17yeah
42:17everybody
42:18just
42:18yeah
42:19give me
42:20the sound
42:20bite
42:21give me
42:21the headline
42:22I don't
42:23want
42:23details
42:24matter
42:25people
42:25you need
42:26to dig
42:26into
42:27things
42:27but the
42:28longer
42:29it is
42:29means
42:30less
42:30people
42:31will
42:31tune
42:32in
42:32so
42:33do
42:34you
42:35have
42:35a
42:36website
42:36for
42:37people
42:37to
42:38reach
42:38out
42:38to
42:38you
42:38I
42:39do
42:39it's
42:39nice
42:40and
42:40simple
42:40it is
42:41davidabedford.com
42:44nice and
42:46simple
42:46davidabedford.com
42:47okay
42:49yep
42:50and that'll
42:51be in
42:51the notes
42:52and
42:52I'll
42:53in post
42:55put it
42:55on the
42:56scroll
42:56at the
42:57bottom
42:57of the
42:57screen
42:58and
42:59so
43:01I
43:01oh
43:03if you
43:04look at
43:05your
43:05initials
43:06in the
43:06mirror
43:06you're
43:07bad
43:08ah
43:09bad
43:11that's a
43:12good
43:12yeah
43:13just
43:13the
43:14idiotic
43:15way
43:15my
43:16OCD
43:16ADHD
43:17brain
43:18works
43:18it's
43:18it's
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