German World War 2 Tank Destroyers That Need Adding to War Thunder

Toreno

In this 11th episode of my series looking at World War 2 Tanks That Need Adding to War Thunder, we finally look at German tank destroyers of the World War 2 period!   So join me as we take a look at some forgotten variants of existing tank destroyers, the unique conversions and prototypes based on various German tanks and the unique looking tank destroyers that were constructed from various captured Allied and Soviet tanks!

Transcript

00:00:00Continuing my series on World War 2 tanks that need adding to War Thunder, we now come to German

00:00:05Tank Destroyers. As you may recall, we did already cover German tanks, but due to the length of the

00:00:10video and amount of research required for these vehicles, I decided to cover the Tank Destroyer

00:00:15vehicles separately. Now, just a caveat, the SPG and Artillery vehicles like the Hummel and WESP

00:00:21are not going to be covered in this episode, just so I can do a video focusing purely on them,

00:00:25and we're going to be covering these broadly in the same fashion as I did with German tanks,

00:00:29basically by going chassis by chassis, so starting off with the Panzer 1s and Panzer 2s,

00:00:33then going to the Panzer 3 and etc etc. So we'll start off by looking at some Panzer 1 based Tank

00:00:39Destroyers, or more specifically this Panzer 1 fitted with a 37mm Pak 36. Now the Panzer 1 in its original

00:00:47tank form was fitted with a turret, but was only armed with two 7.92mm MG13 machine guns, which

00:00:55obviously wasn't much use against tanks, even with AP rounds. So in this case, the turret has been

00:01:01removed and replaced by a 37mm Pak 36, which was the standard anti-tank gun of the German army in the

00:01:08first years of the war. Obviously, this gives it a massive boost in firepower, having an in-game

00:01:14penetration of 31mm at 500m with its APHE shell, more than enough for tier 1, though the traverse

00:01:21does look to be limited to the frontal arc. The crew should also be increased from 2 to 3,

00:01:27though two of these will be largely unprotected, beyond the protection offered by the gun shield,

00:01:32which despite being extended and offering some protection from the front does still leave the

00:01:36crew vulnerable to virtually every weapon, especially from the flanks, with special attention

00:01:42being needed to avoid enemy aircraft and fast firing vehicles. The crewman within the tank

00:01:47isn't much better protected, as the armour only maxes out at 13mm, so it only really protects

00:01:53against light machine gun fire, while the top speed is 19mph or 31kmh. I think this 37mm

00:01:59armed Panzer 1 would make for an excellent start in tanker destroyer, as currently the two tanker

00:02:04destroyer lines start with the Panzer 35T and the 150mm armed Sig 33. So adding this,

00:02:12would give us a more dedicated tanker destroyer design for players to get used to these sort of

00:02:16vehicles, and I think it would be a good addition to the game. In real life it seems that very few,

00:02:21possibly even just the one example was built, and the one we have a photo of was used by Panzer

00:02:27Jaeger Abteilon 521, but I'm not aware of any reports on how it performed, or if it even saw combat.

00:02:34A more purpose built tanker destroyer on the Panzer 1 also existed, this being the Panzer Jaeger 1, which was

00:02:40fitted with a more powerful czech 47mm gun, with 202 being built and this is already in-game.

00:02:48However, there is at least one photo that while not clear purports to show a Panzer 1 fitted with

00:02:53the 50mm Pak 38, which has an in-game penetration of 83mm at 500m with its APC shell, making this a

00:03:01very decent anti-tank weapon in the early tiers. Like with the previous 37mm armed Panzer 1 it will be

00:03:08lightly armoured with an open fighting compartment, though it is decently mobile and should have a

00:03:133 man crew, and I can see it being added at 1.7 to 2.0 between the Panzer Jaeger 1 and Marder 3,

00:03:20filling in that gap and giving us another cool Panzer 1 variant.

00:03:23The Panzer 1 was out of production before the war started, and as the war dragged on,

00:03:28would fall out of use, being replaced by more capable combat tanks for the front lines, while more

00:03:34capable vehicles were also more suitable for conversion into other roles like tank destroyers.

00:03:39However, the Panzer 1's that were still around were kept for roles like airfield security or

00:03:44anti-partisan missions, and so were still available for conversion later in the war, when the situation

00:03:49for Germany was a lot more desperate. Which leads us to this example of a Panzer 1 in the Battle of

00:03:55Berlin, that was converted to take a 75mm length 48 Stuk 40 as used on the later Stuk 3s. Now this

00:04:04does give a massive boost in firepower, penetrating 130mm at 500m with its APCBC shell, but one does

00:04:12have to wonder how well the 5.8 tonne tank would have taken the recoil from such a weapon, and does

00:04:17go to show the desperation of the Germans to consider mounting it to such a small tank over literally

00:04:22anything else, though perhaps it was more intended as a stationary weapon, and was intended to be

00:04:28dug in to mitigate these factors. Armour would again be very light, with limited protection for

00:04:33the 3 crew, while the 19mph top speed is unlikely to be reached in this configuration, and the size

00:04:39of the gun does make this a rather prominent target. In game, this could probably be added at 2.0-2.3,

00:04:46having a very powerful gun but virtually no armour, a very tall silhouette, and would likely be very

00:04:52slow, but it could still make for a cool tank destroyer to have in the early tiers. In real life

00:04:57only the 1 was made, and this served in the battle of Berlin, though it's doubtful that it was very

00:05:02effective, but does show how such an old tank could in theory be upgraded to face more modern tanks,

00:05:08though again does show how desperate things must have been to even consider doing it.

00:05:13So moving on from the Panzer 1, we now have the Panzer 2, which doesn't really seem to have got many

00:05:18ad hoc conversions like with the Panzer 1, but instead got a more official conversion in the

00:05:23form of the Marder 2, or SDK of Zed 132. Now it wasn't called Marder until much later,

00:05:30but I will use this name for simplicity, and also as we have skipped it, the Marder 1 was based on the

00:05:35French Lorraine 37L, and we will be looking at that vehicle later. So the Marder 2 came about from a need

00:05:41for more and better anti-tank vehicles to combat the newer Soviet tanks, like the T-34 and KV-1,

00:05:48that were being encountered in greater numbers on the Eastern Front. This led to a 20th December

00:05:531941 order to Alket, to produce a Panzer Jäger design based on the Panzer 2 Flam, that could mount

00:06:00the 76.2mm Pak 36R, which was basically the Soviet M1936 F22 that had been captured in large numbers by the

00:06:09Germans during Operation Barbarossa and later converted to fire the same ammunition as the

00:06:1475mm Pak 40, which itself wasn't yet available in large enough numbers. Looking at the gun first,

00:06:21this fires the same ammunition as the Pak 40, but at not quite as high a muzzle velocity,

00:06:27about 720 meters a second versus 792 meters a second for the APC-BC shell, giving an in-game

00:06:34penetration at 500 meters of 127 millimeters versus 135 millimeters for the Pak 40. Not drastically

00:06:42worse, but might make a difference in a few edge cases. Meanwhile, the traverse is 25 degrees

00:06:47horizontally right and left, and elevation is minus 5 to plus 16 degrees, and an MG34 is also mounted,

00:06:55giving defense against aircraft and soft skin vehicles. As for the vehicle itself, the conversion

00:07:01involved removing the turret and much of the original superstructure, which was replaced with the

00:07:05new gun and new armoured plates for the front and sides, initially leaving the rear open,

00:07:11though this later got an armour plate to protect this area. The armour itself isn't the best,

00:07:16at 30mm thick for the front and 14.5mm for the gun shield, sides and rear, while the fighting

00:07:23compartment is open topped, making the 4 crew easy pickings for enemy aircraft, and the top speed is

00:07:2934 miles per hour or 55 kilometers an hour. In many ways, this is similar to the Marder 3 that is

00:07:34already in-game, though the Marder 2 has a faster top speed and can traverse 14.5 degrees further in

00:07:40the horizontal, giving this a slight edge in some situations. This could probably work in-game at 2.3,

00:07:47the same as the Marder 3, unless Gaijin decides the extra speed warrants filling the gap at 2.7, but I

00:07:53think this would be a decent tank destroyer for Germany, and it would be nice to see another Marder

00:07:58variant in-game. In real life, 201 would be converted from April 1942 to June 1943, but in June 1942,

00:08:06production would start on the SDK of Zed 131, which is also referred to as the Marder 2, which again was

00:08:12not its technical name at the time, but it had a lot of very long names, so I again will be using

00:08:18Marder 2 for simplicity. This time it was armed with the Pak 40, and as mentioned earlier, performs a bit

00:08:24better than the previous Pak 36R, having a higher muzzle velocity and penetration, making it a better

00:08:30weapon overall, though not drastically so, and it has a horizontal traverse of 32 degrees left and 25

00:08:36degrees right, and an elevation of minus 8 to plus 10, while the MG34 is still carried as a secondary

00:08:42weapon. As for the vehicle itself, it is very similar to the Pak 36R armed vehicle, but was built

00:08:49primarily on the new Panzer II F chassis, though it was also converted from older Panzer II chassis as

00:08:55well, resulting in a slower top speed of 25mph or 40kmh, so 9mph or 15kmh slower than the previous Marder

00:09:032. Meanwhile, the armour is more mixed, with the frontal hull at 35mm and 15mm for the sides and rear,

00:09:10while the superstructure is 30mm for the front and 10mm for the sides and rear, and it is of course still

00:09:16open topped, leaving the 3-4 crew vulnerable to most enemies. Again, this is very similar to the

00:09:22Marder 3H, but this time it is slower than that vehicle, making this an overall worse choice and

00:09:27less of a priority for adding, but it could work at 2.7, filling in that gap between the Marder 3 and

00:09:33Marder 3H, and it would still be nice to see in game. In real life, 576 of these were built from new

00:09:41Panzer II chassis from June 1942 to June 1943, before production was halted to allow the chassis

00:09:47to be used for the Westberg SPG, but a further 75 would be converted from various Panzer II chassis,

00:09:54from July 1943 to March 1944. One Marder 2 would also be used for testing the Zilgeret 1221 night

00:10:02vision device, which worked by an infrared reflector illuminating targets which were then observed by

00:10:08the ZG 1221, and this had a range of 600 metres. This likely wouldn't have much if any effect in

00:10:16game due to a lack of night battles, so could maybe work as an optional vehicle modification,

00:10:21or even as an event vehicle, but it would still be cool to see this in game. Lastly, there appears to

00:10:27have been a version of the Marder 2 that was armed with the 50mm Pak 38, though it's unclear whether

00:10:33this was an official vehicle produced due to a lack of 75mm guns, or a vehicle created in the field.

00:10:39Obviously, this is a worse performing weapon, with its APC shell penetrating 83mm at 500 metres,

00:10:46versus 135mm for the Pak 40's APC-BC shell, but it has a higher muzzle velocity of 835 metres a second,

00:10:54versus 792 metres a second, and presumably has a quicker reload rate due to the smaller shells.

00:11:01And this could work at 2.0, either between the Panzer Jäger 1 and Marder 3, or the Panzer 38 T-A and

00:11:08Panzer 38 TF, and it would be interesting to have this rather unusual Marder 2 variant in game.

00:11:15Moving on from the Panzer 2 based tank destroyers, we then have the Czechoslovakian LTV Z-35 and LTV Z-38,

00:11:22more commonly known as the Panzer 35T and Panzer 38T. Unfortunately for the Panzer 35T, the only

00:11:29reference I could find to anything resembling a tank destroyer is a mention of two examples being

00:11:33fitted with a 47mm gun, but I haven't found any images of this, so I am reluctant to include

00:11:39this as a variant to be added. The Panzer 38T, on the other hand, was used for a large variety of

00:11:45tank destroyer designs, including the two Marder 3 variants already in game, D3 and 3H. However,

00:11:52there was a third variant, the Marder 3M, which differed from the previous Marder 3 in that they

00:11:57were essentially just mounting the gun on a Panzer 38T tank chassis, while the new Marder had a chassis

00:12:03that was designed specifically for mounting the 75mm gun. One of the main changes to this end was

00:12:08moving the engine compartment from the rear to the middle of the tank, which meant that the gun

00:12:12could be moved to the rear, allowing for a better designed and lower down fighting compartment,

00:12:17reducing the vehicle's silhouette, as well as allowing for the radio to be moved into the

00:12:21fighting compartment, letting the radio operator double as a loader. The change in the position

00:12:26of the engine also allowed for less barrel overhang, and for improved weight distribution,

00:12:31and the return rollers on each side of the tank is reduced from 2 to 1.

00:12:35Speaking of the engine, the original 150hp engine was replaced by a 180hp engine, but due to problems

00:12:43with the head gasket blowing, this was replaced by a 160hp engine, though its top speed is still

00:12:49around 26mph or 42kmh, so decent enough. Meanwhile, the total crew count is 4, while the frontal armor

00:12:57is 15mm for the hull, though it is sloped which will help against small calibre weapons, though the

00:13:02driver's compartment might be a weakness, and the superstructure is only 10mm thick, and its open

00:13:08topped. I could see the Marder 3 being added at 3.0 to 3.3, similar to the Marder 3H, having

00:13:14potentially more effective armor due to the sloping, while the engine itself might block some incoming

00:13:19fire from the front, and the radio operator acting as a loader might help with the loading speed,

00:13:25as this job was previously done by the commander, and it would be nice to see this tank destroy in game.

00:13:31In real life, 975 Marder 3Hs were produced from April 1943 to May 1944, and does seem to have been

00:13:38an effective tank destroyer. There would be another tank destroyer prototype based on the Panzer 38T,

00:13:44the 7.5cm Stuk Elf Panzer 38T, which came about in 1942 in response to a need for more firepower to

00:13:52deal with the more heavily armored tanks on the eastern front. In this case, this was done by removing

00:13:57the superstructure from the Panzer 38T and mounting a new fighting compartment, armed with a 75mm Stuk 40

00:14:03length 43 gun, the same as found on the later Stuk 3s, which we will of course be looking at later,

00:14:09and has an in-game penetration of 123mm at 500m with its APC-BC shell, which is a decent performance,

00:14:17while the hull machine gun is also retained for close defense. Armor for the hull maxes out at 50mm,

00:14:23either in a single plate or two 25mm plates, which isn't too bad, but the superstructure would no

00:14:29doubt be very thin, and it is open at the rear, though the roof is partially covered which is

00:14:34welcome, but it's also very tall making for an obvious target. Lastly, the speed should remain

00:14:40at about 22mph or 35kmh, and it's likely a crew of 4-5 was carried, 2 in the hull and 2-3 in the

00:14:48fighting compartment. In-game, this would probably work at 3.0, a bit lower than the Stuk 3f, which

00:14:54has the same gun, is slightly faster and has a lower silhouette, but it would still be a very

00:15:00interesting tank destroyer to have in-game. We also have what looks like a one-off conversion of a

00:15:05Elf Clearons Panzer 38T, which was basically a recon vehicle that was made from converted Panzer 38Ts,

00:15:13with this one being armed with a 75mm Pak 40, giving it a rather big punch, albeit with a much

00:15:19restricted firing arc. That said, with an original in-game top speed of 36mph or 58kmh, I could see

00:15:27this working at 2.3 to 2.7, using its good speed and mobility to quickly reposition and escape enemies,

00:15:34and giving us a unique variant of this lesser known tank. Of course however, the most famous tank destroyer

00:15:40based on the Panzer 38T is the Jagdpanzer 38 and its variants, which came about from the bombing of

00:15:46the Alket factory, which built Stug 3s, and this led to a massive drop in Stug 3 production, which was

00:15:53a big problem because the Stug 3 was one of the most built German tank destroyers in WWII, and so it was

00:15:59inquired if the BMM factory in Prague in occupied Czechoslovakia could build Stugs to make up for this

00:16:05loss in production. While this was not the case, they could produce a light tank destroyer, which

00:16:1111 days later resulted in the design drawings for a tank destroyer based on the automotive components

00:16:17of the Panzer 38T, though the chassis was designed from scratch. Work would move swiftly with a wooden

00:16:24mockup ready in January 1944, and troop trials were ordered in March 1944, and despite being put into

00:16:31production in less than 4 months from start to finish, this design worked remarkably well, though as it

00:16:37was based on existing components this might have been expected, and 2584 were built from April 1944

00:16:44to May 1945. Now while we have the Jagdpanzer 38 already in game, there are still a few variants that

00:16:51need adding, starting off with the Jagdpanzer 38 Star, which was an attempt to produce a Jagdpanzer 38

00:16:58with the Pak 39 fixed to a rigid mount without a recoil system, with the vehicle itself being used

00:17:05to absorb the recoil from the gun. Work on such a system had been ongoing before the Jagdpanzer 38

00:17:11even existed, and it was even hoped to go into production with this system, though a recoil system

00:17:17was eventually used for the production model. But it was decided to continue testing on the Jagdpanzer 38,

00:17:22with the project going from Rheinmetall to Alquette back to Rheinmetall and then in April 1945 to BMM,

00:17:29with a decision to be taken on April 20th 1945 on whether to start production, with 10 prototypes

00:17:36having been built while this was going on. The gun itself should perform the same as the usual Pak 39

00:17:41with regards to armour penetration, penetrating 130mm at 500m with its APCBC shell, but the gun was

00:17:48closer to the centre of the vehicle rather than the right like on the regular vehicle, and the opening

00:17:53for the gun was also smaller. Traverse and elevation were also affected in mixed ways, with the elevation

00:17:59now minus 6 to plus 15, while Traverse was to be 8 degrees either direction horizontally, compared to

00:18:05the regular Jagdpanzer 38's minus 6 to plus 12 elevation and 6 degrees left and 11 degrees right.

00:18:12So there's some improvements in the elevation, but there is a loss in the horizontal traverse to the right.

00:18:18The lack of a recoil mechanism might also cause some movement with the vehicle itself when firing,

00:18:23which shouldn't be too much of an issue but might result in losing sight of the target, depending on

00:18:29how much effect the recoil would have in game. However, the new mount also reduced the vehicle's overall

00:18:35weight from 15.75 tonnes to 14 tonnes, with this being especially noticeable at the nose of the vehicle.

00:18:42Though the top speed remains the same at 26mph or 42kmh, but should give it a better power to weight ratio.

00:18:49That said, one vehicle was also tested with a Tatra 8 cylinder diesel engine, which was also

00:18:55supposed to be demonstrated to Hitler in April 1945, though of course this never happened. But the

00:19:00engine was supposed to be more powerful than the petrol one at 207hp vs 160hp, which should improve

00:19:07mobility while the crew count would remain at 4. In game this would probably work at 4.0, with the usual

00:19:13petrol variant in the regular tech tree and the diesel one as an event or premium vehicle. And while not

00:19:19a groundbreaking vehicle overall, it would be good to see this unique development of the egged panzer 38

00:19:25in game. In real life only 10 prototypes were made, and while the new mounting did eventually work, it did

00:19:31result in issues such as cracking, damage to the sights etc etc. Which took some time to fix, and by

00:19:37the time it could have been put into production the war was practically over. Though some sources state

00:19:41that one saw combat in Prague in May 1945, while Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer by Hilary Doyle and Tom Jentz,

00:19:48states that eight had their gun sights and traversing gear removed to be used to complete a few more

00:19:54regular Jagdpanzer 38s that were being built. So the Jagdpanzer 38 was quite a successful vehicle

00:20:00in German service, but due to only being produced in occupied Czechoslovakia, production was never

00:20:05as high as the Germans hoped for. So in September 1944, plans were made to start producing a new

00:20:11Jagdpanzer 38 within Germany itself, with Alquette put in charge of this task. It would also be decided

00:20:18soon after that in order to rationalise tank production, only the Panzer 38T, Panther and

00:20:24Tiger chassis would be kept in production, with the Panzer IV to be discontinued. The name of this new

00:20:30Jagdpanzer 38 would be the Jagdpanzer 38D, standing for Deutschland, and it was to differ from the

00:20:36original Jagdpanzer 38 in a number of respects, though unfortunately we have no photos of the vehicle

00:20:42to compare the two. Starting with the armament, while this was originally supposed to be the same

00:20:47Pack 39 length 48 from the Jagdpanzer 38, it was later changed so the production version was to be

00:20:53armed with a 75mm length 70 gun from the Panther and Panzer IV 70 tank destroyer, having an in-game

00:21:00penetration of 173mm at 500m with its APC-BC shell, so a 43mm improvement, while Traverse was to be 8

00:21:08degrees either direction horizontally and minus 8 to plus 15 in the vertical, and two 7.92mm machine

00:21:15guns were carried, one on the roof and one mounted in the vehicle. The hull was also to be modified,

00:21:20with the lower hull sides now being vertical rather than in a V shape, simplifying construction and

00:21:26increasing internal space, while the vehicle was also a little wider and heavier than the original

00:21:31Jagdpanzer 38 at 16.7 tons and 2.81 meters wide. Armour should be improved, maxing out at 80mm at 60

00:21:40degrees for the front suspension, making it a very well protected vehicle, though other sources state

00:21:45that it remained at 60mm, while the front hull was 60mm at 40 degrees, 20mm for the sides, 20mm for the

00:21:53rear hull and 8mm for the rear superstructure. The Jagdpanzer 38d was also to use a new Tatra

00:21:59V12 diesel engine producing 200hp, giving a top speed of 25mph or 40kmh, so slightly slower than

00:22:07the regular Jagdpanzer 38, while a VVSS suspension was to be used and a crew of 4 would man the tank.

00:22:14I could see the Jagdpanzer 38d working at 5.0 to 5.3 between the Jagdpanzer 38 and the Panzer 470,

00:22:22having a better gun, possibly better mobility from the more powerful engine, and good armour

00:22:27protection, and it would be nice to see what was intended to be the ultimate version of the Jagdpanzer

00:22:3238 in game. In real life, mass production was to start in March 1945 at Alket, with a plan to

00:22:39demonstrate one for Hitler on his birthday on the 20th of April, but neither of these ended up happening,

00:22:44though by 23rd of March 1945, two Jagdpanzer 38d's were almost ready, with a finished time of 8 days

00:22:51once their transmission had been delivered, though it's unknown if they were ever actually finished.

00:22:56I have also seen the odd reference to standard Jagdpanzer 38t's being fitted with, or planned

00:23:01to be fitted with, the length 70-75mm gun, but while this might have been something that was looked

00:23:06at, as far as I can tell this never went ahead on regular Jagdpanzer 38s, but if it turns out the

00:23:11program did go ahead and some were fitted with the weapon, it would be suitable for adding in game,

00:23:16though I suspect it might make the vehicle a little nose heavy, and like I say, it seems unlikely that

00:23:20it was ever done, and so I don't think it will be added in game. Moving on from the light panzer-based

00:23:25tank destroyers, we then have the Panzer III, which was of course the basis of the Stug III,

00:23:30whose variants we will look at. But first, I want to take a look at this rather unusual variant,

00:23:35that has been created by placing a Pak 41 in place of the turret of the Panzer III F. Now the Pak 41 is a

00:23:42rather unusual weapon, in that it is a squeeze-bore weapon, basically meaning the barrel starts off at

00:23:4775mm but gradually tapers down to 55mm, squeezing the shell and allowing for much greater muzzle

00:23:53velocities than on a regular gun. Now there are a few ammunition types, which Ghost Maxi has detailed

00:23:59on the War Thunder forum, which I'll link below, with the most effective shell being the Panzer

00:24:04Grenada 41 HK round, which has a tungsten core, achieving a muzzle velocity of 1230m a second,

00:24:12and a penetration of around 209mm at 500m at a 0 degree angle, or 172mm at a 30 degree angle,

00:24:21making this a pretty effective weapon for penetrating armour, though less useful with

00:24:24regards to post penetration damage. There is also the Panzer Grenada 41W shell,

00:24:30that has the same muzzle velocity but has a different core, with most sources stating it's a

00:24:34soft steel core, but I've also been told it acts more like an APBC or APCBC shell core, but based on

00:24:41some of the German data I've seen it only has a penetration of 80mm at 500m at a 30 degree angle,

00:24:47so nowhere near as good as the APCR shell, but not hopelessly bad. There is also the STK shell,

00:24:53which is slightly heavier to the HK at 3kg vs 2.6kg, and has a lower muzzle velocity of at least 1130m

00:25:02a second, with other sources stating 1170m a second, and while I haven't got penetration figures,

00:25:09plugging this into Gaijin's penetration calculator gives us a penetration of around

00:25:13196mm to 206mm at 0 degrees at point blank range, depending on the velocity figure used.

00:25:21There are other shells with different weights and muzzle velocities which could also be added,

00:25:25including a HE shell, which has a lower muzzle velocity of 900m a second,

00:25:30giving something to use against soft skin targets. The rest of the tank should be the same as the

00:25:35Panther 3F, with a maximum armor thickness of 30mm for the hull, front and sides,

00:25:40while the gun shield is unlikely to provide much protection, except against machine guns,

00:25:44while the top speed should remain about 44mph 71kmh, and I suspect the crew will be about 4-5,

00:25:51with 2 in the hull and 2-3 manning the gun. In game this would be a little hard to balance,

00:25:56as in theory it does have a very powerful weapon capable of penetrating most enemies,

00:26:00though I also see lots of complaints about APCR shells and the like not doing much post-penetration

00:26:06damage. To be fair, I think it's less that APCR doesn't do much damage, more that shells with

00:26:10explosive filler just overperform everything else. Indeed, while I would never willingly choose an

00:26:16APCR shell except in the odd situation where I need the extra penetration, I've never found it

00:26:20particularly awful when forced to use it, like on the M48A2C. As for the battle rating, again this is

00:26:27hard to balance, so maybe somewhere between 3.3 to 5.7, depending on what features of the weapon

00:26:32Gaijin thinks are most important when deciding the battle rating, and of course how the post-penetration

00:26:37damage turns out. But it would still be a pretty cool tank destroyer to have in game. In real life

00:26:42only one vehicle seems to have been converted, perhaps due to having a damaged turret removed,

00:26:47while the Pak 41 itself was only built in small numbers, about 150, due to its use of tungsten,

00:26:53a material that was available in extremely limited quantities and was also needed for machine tools,

00:26:59so the weapon quickly fell out of use, with most being scrapped. However, the most well-known tank

00:27:04destroyer-like vehicle based on the Panzer III is the Stug III and its variants, which are technically

00:27:09Sturmgeschütz or Assaults vehicles, but in game these basically operate as tank destroyers,

00:27:14especially the later variants with the longer 75mm gun. And there are still a lot of these variants

00:27:20to add in game. So we start off by looking at the initial prototype of the Stug III,

00:27:24which began development in 1936, in response to specifications laid out by Inspectorate IV,

00:27:31aka the Ordnance Bureau. With these being, the main armament of vehicle must have a calibre of 75mm,

00:27:37it needs to have a vertical clearance of at least 30 degrees, should be able to fire at a range of 6

00:27:41kilometres, should have anti-tank capabilities and be able to penetrate every existing tank at a

00:27:46distance of 500 metres, which will become very important later, it would need to be armoured

00:27:51and not have a turret, and should be impervious to a 2cm shell at an angle of 60 degrees for the

00:27:57frontal armour, the height mustn't exceed that of a standing man, other dimensions have to take into

00:28:02account those of the biggest existing panzer chassis, and then that other imperatives would

00:28:06be established when new armaments and ammunition had been tested. So the vehicle that this was based on

00:28:11was the Panzer III-B chassis, which meant that they had 8 smaller road wheels rather than the

00:28:166 large wheels of later variants, and it was powered by a Maybach HL-108 TR petrol engine,

00:28:22developing 250hp, giving it a top speed of around 22mph or 35kmh, about the same as the Panzer III-B in

00:28:31game. Meanwhile the armour is somewhat mixed, as while it technically maxes out at 50mm for the

00:28:36superstructure and hull, much of the rest of the tank is armoured to a lesser degree, and because it's a

00:28:40prototype it was made out of soft steel, making it far worse at protecting against incoming enemy

00:28:46fire compared to regular RHA or cast armour. Lastly the armament is the same 75mm Stuk 37

00:28:53length 24 as on the regular Stuk III-A, which in game can fire smoke, HE, APCBC shells with a

00:28:59penetration of 45mm at 500m, or two types of heat shell with 80 and 115mm penetration respectively,

00:29:08while 4 crew were carried. In game this initial Stuk III could be added at a lower battle rating

00:29:13than the Stuk III-A, probably at 1.7 to 2.0, as it's armour might be worse than the A's if it's using

00:29:19the soft steel, though should be fairly similar if it's using regular armour, though it does also have

00:29:25inferior mobility, but does still have a pretty good gun and it would allow for the Stuk to be used at

00:29:29the initial battle ratings. In real life 5 of these Stuk prototypes were created and they were tested for

00:29:35a number of years, with the first Stuk III-A's not being ordered until January 1940, months after the

00:29:41start of the war, while the prototypes would continue to see use as training vehicles for a time.

00:29:47Moving on we then come to the Stuk III-A, which we already have in game, however this variant is in

00:29:52need of some changes to make it more historically accurate. You see on the in game model you can see

00:29:57this opening at the front of the Stuk, which is where the gunner would look through and this was

00:30:02completely open, making the Stuk very vulnerable to all types of rounds, including small calibre

00:30:07HE shells that would otherwise be of no threat to the Stuk. This area also represented a bit of a

00:30:12shot trap, meaning that shells that didn't penetrate the armour could be directed towards the open port.

00:30:17However in game this is treated as a solid object, meaning that shells that could easily detonate

00:30:22inside the vehicle instead hit armour, negating their effects. So Gaijin should make some changes to the

00:30:28Stuk III-A, primarily making the gunner vision port area open and not protected by invisible armour,

00:30:34allowing for less powerful vehicles to have more of a chance against the Stuk III-A,

00:30:38and giving early tanks with less effective HE shells a way to put them to good use.

00:30:43In real life only 30 Stuk III-As were built from January 1940 to May 1940, plus 6 to 20 AB hybrids,

00:30:50made up of parts from the A and B, which could also be added as a unique variant. This then brings us to the

00:30:56Stuk III-B, which was built in 2 series and was very similar to the A, but had its pre-selection

00:31:02transmission replaced by a new Sync Pro Mesh transmission, with 6 forward gears and 1 reverse,

00:31:07as opposed to the 10 forward and 4 reverse of the original transmission. There would also be other

00:31:12minor changes such as a new drive sprocket and wider 40cm track, but these changes would not have

00:31:18much effect in game. But it could still be added at 2.3 like the Stuk III-A, probably in a folder with it,

00:31:24but like I say, apart from the transmission, this would play almost identically to the A,

00:31:28so it shouldn't be a high priority for adding. This time 320 would be produced from June 1940 to May

00:31:341941, before being replaced by the Stuk III-C and D. Basically the C and D are essentially the same

00:31:40vehicle, with the D basically being the C but ordered due to more Stuk III's being needed and for whatever

00:31:45reason being given a new letter designation. The major change that the Stuk III would introduce

00:31:50was the new superstructure, which plated over the previous gunner's sight pull, eliminating the

00:31:56weakness which also included a bit of a shot trap, and replacing it with a periscope sight,

00:32:01which is partly protected by a bullet splash deflector, while the two smaller hatches of

00:32:06the original Stuk's would be replaced by one large hatch. The only other major difference introduced by

00:32:11the Stuk III-D that I can see is that some were fitted with an armoured pannier, a sort of box-like

00:32:15structure on the right of the tank for additional radios, so they could be used as command vehicles,

00:32:20and possibly the armour face hardening was slightly improved, though I doubt this would have much

00:32:24effect in game, and I've only seen tank encyclopaedia list this change. Of course another good reason to

00:32:30add the Stuk III-C is that this, along with the Stuk IV, is one of just two vehicles that were supposed

00:32:35to be released in the initial German tech tree, but for whatever reason wasn't. Perhaps Gaijin did

00:32:41envision for the Stuk III-A to have that weakness originally, but then decided to just go with the

00:32:46invisible armour, so instead of adding the Stuk III-C to fix that problem, they now didn't need to.

00:32:52But yeah, like I say, I think the Stuk III-A should have that weakness, and the Stuk III-C should be

00:32:56added with that weakness fixed. Overall, these two vehicles would probably work in-game at 2.3,

00:33:02maybe 2.7 if the gunner port vulnerability is introduced to the earlier Stuk's, and found to be

00:33:08a significant weakness. But these could also be added in a folder, or with one as a regular vehicle,

00:33:13and one as a premium or event vehicle. These wouldn't be massive game-changers, but it would

00:33:17be nice to have them, though not as a priority. Only 50 Stuk III-Cs would be built, followed by 150 Ds,

00:33:24from about May 1941 to September 1941, before being superseded in production by the Stuk III-E.

00:33:30Again, this was an incremental improvement over the previous Stugs, with the main difference being the

00:33:35inclusion of an armoured pannier on the right side of the vehicle as standard, allowing for additional

00:33:41radio equipment to be fitted, while 9mm angled plates on the sides of the superstructure were

00:33:46removed. Like with the C&D, this wouldn't be a massive upgrade, but it would be nice for this

00:33:50Stuk variant to be added at some point, preferably in the tech tree. 500 Stuk III-Es would be ordered,

00:33:56but between September 1941 and March 1942, only 272 would be built. The reason for this was that the

00:34:04length 24 75mm gun, while perfectly surfacable for the supporting infantry, was rapidly becoming

00:34:11obsolete in the anti-tank role. And if you recall, one of the original requirements for the vehicle was

00:34:15to have anti-tank capabilities and to be able to penetrate enemy tanks at 500m. Introducing shaped

00:34:22charges did somewhat help with this problem in the short term, but a long-term solution would be

00:34:27needed to allow the Stuk III to combat more modern tanks like the T-34 and soon-to-be-introduced Sherman.

00:34:33Now a few solutions were sought here with regards to the armament, with at least two weapons

00:34:37prototyped on Stuk's. Now the first one seems a bit obscure, as I first came across it in a vehicle

00:34:43suggestion on the War Thunder forums by Ghost Maxi, with this being a Stuk III F8, which we will look at

00:34:50later, being fitted with a 75mm Stuk length 33, with one of these vehicles being acquired by the Americans,

00:34:57but there are few references online to this weapon or vehicle. The weapon itself is obviously longer

00:35:02than the length 24 75mm gun, giving it a muzzle velocity of approximately 2000 feet a second or

00:35:09610 meters a second, versus a maximum of 450 meters a second for the length 24, so a decent improvement,

00:35:17but not drastically so compared to other weapons. As for ammunition, it should be able to fire the same

00:35:22shells as the length 24, which using Gaijin's armor penetration calculator gives us a penetration of

00:35:27100mm for the APCBC shell at point blank range, that would the penetration when fired from the length

00:35:3424, while the HEAT shells will penetrate their usual 80 and 115mm respectively, with HE and smoke

00:35:40shells also being available. Armor is also improved, with an additional 30mm armor plate added to the

00:35:46hull, and superstructure. While the roof on the upper superstructure is a little more sloped,

00:35:51and the rear armor is 50mm, making this decently well protected. Meanwhile the crew is still 4,

00:35:57and the top speed is 25mph or 40kmh, much the same as the Stug 3F. In game this could be added at 3.0,

00:36:05probably as an event or premium vehicle, though maybe it could be added on the regular tech tree,

00:36:10with this making a good stepping stone between the length 24 Stugs and the later Stug 3F with its long

00:36:1575mm gun, while also showcasing this rather rare vehicle. In real life this vehicle seems to have

00:36:21been quite rare, with at least one being captured by the americans on the western front, though it

00:36:26doesn't seem like it survives today. The other attempt at improving the firepower of the Stug came in

00:36:31the form of a Panzer 3F that was modified into a Stug, with the vehicle itself being a bit different

00:36:37to contemporary Stugs, having increased sloping for the upper superstructure and a fake driver's

00:36:43viewing port on the left of the vehicle, as well as extended sides on the vehicle and a flat rear of the

00:36:48superstructure. The main armament however was now a Krupp 75mm length 41 gun, and according to Tank

00:36:55Encyclopedia began development in 1938, with a prototype built in 1939, firing tests in 1940,

00:37:03and was finally fitted in the Stug in the same year, showing that the Germans were at least

00:37:08considering how to improve their vehicle's firepower in order to combat heavily armoured tanks. One

00:37:13source states that the Stug length 41 could fire an APC-BC shell at a muzzle velocity of 670 meters

00:37:20a second, penetrating 70mm of armour at a 30 degree angle at 400 meters, or using Gaijin's armour

00:37:26penetration calculator, 115mm at point blank range. But another source states a higher muzzle velocity of

00:37:33685 meters a second, bringing this penetration to 118mm, well over double that when fired from a

00:37:40length 24 gun. Again heat shells from the length 24 should be usable, given the usual 80 and 115

00:37:47millimeters penetration respectively, and again HE and smoke shells can be fired. As for the rest of

00:37:52the stats, it had a maximum of 50mm of armour, 4 crew, and while the top speed of the Panzer III F it is

00:37:59based on is 44 miles per hour or 71 kilometers an hour, most other sources state a top speed of 25 miles

00:38:05per hour or 40 kilometers an hour. So I'm not sure what's going on there, but I would suspect that the

00:38:09latter's top speed is maybe a bit more likely. In game this would work at 3.0, again being a

00:38:15stepping stone between the length 24 and length 43 75mm guns, as well as again showcasing yet

00:38:21another unique example of a rare German tank destroyer prototype. Ultimately this vehicle

00:38:26was shown to Hitler in March 1941, and he did order troop trials to begin. It's not known how these trials

00:38:33went, but on the 20th of November 1941, Krupp was informed that the project was cancelled,

00:38:39but there is reference to the use of a length 41 75mm gun in Crimea in May 1942, so perhaps this

00:38:45vehicle did end up seeing combat at some point, instead of being scrapped or reconverted to its

00:38:50original configuration. So in the end these first two attempts at upgunning the Stug III had not gone

00:38:55into production. A reason for this maybe is that the improvements in anti-armour capabilities were not

00:39:01good enough, but I suspect another reason might be more to do with a philosophy on German vehicles

00:39:05not to have barrels that overhung the front of the vehicle, as these could in theory get caught on

00:39:10obstacles, damaging the barrel which likely limited the length of the two previous guns.

00:39:15However after encountering Soviet T-34s, which did have overhanging barrels and were tough to take

00:39:20out with existing tank guns, this requirement was dropped, as the need to destroy enemy tanks

00:39:26superseded the risk from overhanging barrels, so longer barrelled guns could be developed more freely.

00:39:32In the end this is what happened, as Ryan Matul designed a 75mm Pak 40 anti-tank gun,

00:39:37which is what prompted the cancellation of Krupp's gun, and after the two companies worked together,

00:39:42the new gun could be fitted into Panzers and Stugs, with the designation 75mm Stuk 40 length 43.

00:39:49Thus the simplest solution to this upgunning problem was to fit the Stuk 40 length 43,

00:39:54and then later the length 48 into the Stuk III E, with this variant becoming the in-game Stuk III F,

00:40:00with 360 being built from March to September 1942.

00:40:04So the Germans now had an upgunned Stuk III in the F, but after maintaining the same whole design

00:40:10from the A to the F, it was now time to change this with the Stuk III F8, named as it was based

00:40:15on the Panzer III J or VIII series, though why they didn't just call it the Stuk III G is beyond me,

00:40:21especially when the Stuk III D was basically just a continuation of the production of the Stuk III C anyway.

00:40:27There were a few differences in this variant, for example the rear armour was increased from 30 to 50mm,

00:40:32making it a bit better protected from the rear, while the front had additional 30mm plates installed,

00:40:38bringing the front up to 80mm thick, while the plate above the driver position is more angled,

00:40:43making this very well protected. 5mm thick side skirts were also installed and the hull was extended

00:40:49further back, while the two headlights were swapped out for a single one and the front fenders were

00:40:54shorter than on the F. In-game this would be armed with the 75mm Stuk 40 length 48 like on the Stuk III G,

00:41:00and it was fitted with an MG34 for closing defence. The Stuk III F8 would probably work at 3.7 to 4.0,

00:41:08just before the Stuk III G, being almost on par with that variant and while not a high priority,

00:41:13it would be nice to have it in-game. In real life 334 Stuk III F8s were built from September to December

00:41:201942, meaning up to this point around 1516 Stugs had been built from 1939 to the end of December 1942.

00:41:30However, the next and final variant, the Stuk III G would have 7720 built from December 1942 to March

00:41:391945, class 173 converted from Panzer 3s, representing a massive jump in production. Of course the Stuk

00:41:47III G is already in-game, but there were some changes on later Stuk III G's that could be added in-game,

00:41:53such as the Sal Kopf or Pig's Head Mantlet, which is a little more sloped unlike the flat-sided

00:41:59mantlet of the Stuk III G in-game. A 7.92mm MG34 coaxial machine gun was also added to the original

00:42:06Mantlet and later Sal Kopf Mantlet vehicles, which would help for arranging shots or closing defence,

00:42:13while an MG34 could be installed on the roof of the vehicle, so these changes could be added

00:42:18to a new Stuk III G at 4.0 or incorporated to the original as an optional modification.

00:42:24There is also this rather odd example of a Stuk III G that was disguised as an allied

00:42:28vehicle during Operation Grief as part of the Ardent Offensive aka the Battle of the Bulge,

00:42:35where Panzer Brigade 150 was supposed to capture bridges over the River Muse during the offensive,

00:42:40as well as cause general disruption behind allied lines. During this operation the Germans were

00:42:46supposed to infiltrate but not fight while using allied disguises, as well as captured allied equipment,

00:42:52but where this was lacking they had to disguise their vehicles to look like allied ones,

00:42:57this being where the Panthers mocked up to look like M10s come from.

00:43:00Five Stuk III G's were also disguised, though it is a little unclear what they are supposed to

00:43:05resemble, as of course the allies didn't really have anything that looks like a Stuk,

00:43:09though maybe it's just supposed to represent a Stuk that was captured by the allies which

00:43:13might make a bit more sense. In-game this would probably make for a good event vehicle,

00:43:18giving us a rather unusual looking Stuk, though it also might end up causing some confusion on the

00:43:23battlefield, just as it was intended to in real life. So that covers all of the built Stuk III variants,

00:43:30but like with the Panzer IV, sometimes the changes from later variants, especially the upgraded weapons,

00:43:36would be retrofitted to older Stugs. For example, there is at least one Stug III or D that received a

00:43:4375mm length 48 gun to replace the length 24. So these variants could be represented in-game,

00:43:49having better guns but inferior armour, making them very much glass cannons. At least once the

00:43:55Kree F or F8 also received a length 24 gun, giving it the opposite problem of having very good armour,

00:44:01but a substandard gun for the higher tiers, so perhaps this could be used in the early tiers much

00:44:06like the Sherman Jumbo, having very good armour that makes it tough to take out, but a worse gun that

00:44:11makes it tougher to take out enemies. So now moving onto the Panzer IV, this again had a whole bunch of

00:44:18dedicated tank destroyers based off its hull, but there were also occasionally more improvised attempts

00:44:23at turning it into a tank destroyer, for example this Panzer IV that has been fitted with a 50mm Pak 38.

00:44:29Now from what I can tell, this is technically based on a Bruckenleger 4C, which is basically a bridge

00:44:36laying tank based on the Panzer IVC, and it appears that at some point, probably after deploying its bridge,

00:44:42that it was fitted with a 50mm gun, which has an in-game penetration of 83mm at 500m with its APC shell,

00:44:49which beats out the length 24-75mm gun of the early Panzer IVs on all fronts, except for its best

00:44:55heat shell which can penetrate 115mm. As for the rest of the stats, it should have 30mm of armour for

00:45:02the frontal hull, 15mm for the sides and rear, but of course it has an exposed firing platform for the

00:45:07crew, leaving them very vulnerable, but it does also have a top speed of 26mph or 42kmh and should

00:45:14have a crew of 4-5. I could see its being added at 2.0, having decent hull armour and a no case speed,

00:45:21as well as a superior gun to the early Panzer IVs, and it would be nice to see this unusual variant of

00:45:26the Panzer IV in-game. So there aren't a lot of improvised tank destroyers based on the Panzer IV

00:45:31hull, but as mentioned there are quite a few dedicated designs, which we would take a quick look at.

00:45:37So first of all we have the initial two prototypes of the Jagdpanzer IV, which were built between

00:45:42September 1943 and January 1944, and were initially fitted with length 43-75mm guns instead of the

00:45:50length 48, as well as having a different superstructure design. The length 43 would give it a

00:45:56slightly worse penetration at 500m of about 135mm vs 143mm, not a great loss but might make a

00:46:04difference in some situations. Meanwhile the superstructure is more rounded at the edges,

00:46:08while the fenders don't seem to extend as far as the in-game model, and side skirts are also

00:46:13available unlike in-game. There was also the unfortunate fact that the prototypes were made

00:46:18of soft steel, making them far less protected in-game, though Gaijin may just decide to add them

00:46:23with regular armour anyway. Other than that, the top speed should remain at 25mph or 40kmh and a crew of

00:46:304 is carried. This could probably be added at 4.0, having a slightly worse gun and unique model,

00:46:36though this all depends on whether it is given the soft steel armour or not, but it could still make

00:46:41for a unique tank destroyer to have in-game. Now of course earlier we looked at the various Stug3's we

00:46:46could get in-game, but now we can have a look at the Stug4, a Panzer IV based vehicle that was actually

00:46:52on the initial list of German tanks to be released back when the German tank tree was announced,

00:46:56so it has been a long anticipated vehicle for much of the community and myself.

00:47:01So the Stug4's story technically begins in early 1943, when Krupp worked on a design that

00:47:06incorporated the Stug3 F superstructure on the Panzer IV chassis, but it was recommended that this

00:47:11design not be produced, partly due to the weight being the same as a regular Panzer IV, as well as

00:47:16other factors like the use of sloped armour that were likely to cause delays, not to mention that

00:47:21a better design for a tank destroyer based on the Panzer IV would also begin development in 1943,

00:47:27the Jagdpanzer IV. However, in November 1943, the Alquette factory that produced many of the Stug3's

00:47:34was bombed by the allies, drastically cut in production. So in December 1943, Hitler authorised the

00:47:40combining of the Stug3 superstructure with the Panzer IV H or J, with as little alterations as possible,

00:47:47allowing for the production of Stugs to continue despite the disruption from the bombing.

00:47:51The new Stug4 design largely resembles the Stug3, being armed with the same 75mm Stug40

00:47:58length 48 gun, one 7.92mm MG34 on the roof, a four-man crew and a maximum armour thickness of

00:48:0580mm for the frontal hull and superstructure, along with 5mm armoured skirts for the sides.

00:48:11However, there are also some differences, for example the rear armour of the hull is now reduced

00:48:15from 50mm to 20mm, making this more vulnerable to attacks from the rear, even from autocannon

00:48:21vehicles, while the top speed is slightly reduced from 25mph or 40kmh to 23.6mph or 38kmh.

00:48:29The driver's compartment was also different, now consisting of a box-like compartment in front of

00:48:35the superstructure, while a gap was now present due to the Panzer IV chassis being longer than the

00:48:40Stug3 superstructure, which had to be covered by an armoured plate. In-game this would probably work

00:48:45at 4.0 in a folder with the Stug3G, and overall these two vehicles would play pretty similar to

00:48:51each other. So it is understandable why Gaijin hasn't added this vehicle, but it would be nice to

00:48:56see this rather unique Stug represented in War Thunder. In real life, 31 Panzer IVs were converted

00:49:02by Alket, while around 1,108 were produced by Krupp between December 1943 and March 1945,

00:49:10with Krupp halting production of the Panzer IV completely in order to focus on producing Stug4s,

00:49:16though one has to wonder if it might have been worthwhile simply focusing on the actual Panzer IV,

00:49:20although there might have been additional bottlenecks if they had focused on producing that design,

00:49:25like a lack of guns for example, and it might have done less well in the assault gun role,

00:49:30as although Germany was now largely on the defensive in the war, offensives and counter-offensives would

00:49:35still be carried out, and the Stug4 seems to have done well for itself regardless.

00:49:39So moving on to the Panther, and by this stage of the war we start to see less improvised tank

00:49:43destroyer designs, but the Panther did see a tank destroyer in the Jagdpanther. However,

00:49:49we already have the Jagdpanther in-game, and only minor changes were made to that vehicle over time,

00:49:53like changing the engine cover, being fitted with a two-piece gun for easier barrel changes,

00:49:58a new mantlet etc etc. So while these could be represented in-game, they would have to be

00:50:03a very low priority. I did also see a reference to a rigid mounted gun like on the Jagdpanther 38

00:50:10Star being considered for testing on the Jagdpanther, but it doesn't seem like this was actually fitted,

00:50:15so shouldn't be added. Moving on to German heavy tanks, there weren't any tank destroyers based on

00:50:21the Tiger I, though the Ferdinand, later renamed Elephant, was based on the Porsche design for the

00:50:26Tiger I, but those were already in-game. Then lastly for heavy tanks there was the Tiger II,

00:50:31which did give us the Jagdtiger, the heaviest of the German tank destroyers,

00:50:35and does give us a few options for a few rather unique variants of this vehicle.

00:50:40You see, while the majority of Jagdtigers used a Henschel suspension, ten of the Jagdtiger's plus one

00:50:46prototype utilised a Porsche suspension, which had eight road wheels on each side versus nine for

00:50:52the Henschel suspension, and longitudinal fitted torsion bars rather than transfers,

00:50:57resulting in 1200kg of saved weight, extra internal space, more ground clearance and reduced cost in

00:51:03time and money. This all sounded rather good, but unfortunately didn't end up working in practice,

00:51:08resulting in shaking when reaching 9mph or 15kmh, and while some fixes were attempted,

00:51:14ultimately the Henschel suspension would be used going forward. However, this could still be added

00:51:20in-game, giving a worse drive, but potentially being a bit more mobile from the saved weight,

00:51:24and maybe having a slightly increased fire rate from the extra internal space.

00:51:29And as a few of these were made, it could be added as a regular vehicle at 6.7.

00:51:33So the Jagdtiger continued in production with about 74 plus built, though unfortunately the exact

00:51:38number is a bit unclear due to Jagdtigers being built but not delivered, factories being bombed,

00:51:43paperwork destroyed etc etc. However, it seems that in February 1945, Hitler ordered the fitting of

00:51:50the 88mm Pak 43 in cases where there were not enough of the 128mm gun. Now there is a bit of

00:51:56debate on how far these efforts might have gone, though it seems that a small number, between 4 or

00:52:0112 or so were being built, but it seems like these were never finished, missing optics and other equipment,

00:52:07and were destroyed to prevent their capture, having never seen combat. So they probably never finished

00:52:12and definitely didn't see combat, but it would be an interesting vehicle to have in game, with the 88mm gun

00:52:18having a penetration at 500m of 222mm versus 237-257 for the 128mm guns to APCBC shell. Though they have

00:52:30786 grams of explosive filler versus 108 grams for the 88mm, meaning less post penetration damage,

00:52:39but the 88mm also has a muzzle velocity of 1000m a second versus 930-940m a second for the 128mm gun,

00:52:48while finally the 88mm has a reload rate of 8.7 seconds on the Ferdinand versus 23.7 seconds for the

00:52:56128mm gun on the Jagdtiger, so it can fire near enough free shots for every shot that the Jagdtiger

00:53:02fires. This would make the 88mm variant rather interesting and potentially superior to the regular

00:53:08Jagdtiger, as its 88mm gun doesn't perform much worse than the 128mm gun, but it is easier to use

00:53:15at longer ranges due to the higher muzzle velocity, and has a much faster reload rate, making it a much

00:53:21better weapon for prolonged engagements. Again, it's a bit debatable if it could be added given it

00:53:26doesn't seem to have been finished, but if it was, it could go at 6.7, maybe folded with the 128mm

00:53:32Jagdtiger, or maybe added as an event vehicle, and I think this would be a very popular tank destroyer

00:53:37to have in game. So that is all of the regular German tanks that were converted or used as the

00:53:43bases for various tank destroyers, but there are also tank destroyers not based on regular German

00:53:49vehicles, starting with the 3.7cm Sebsfaller Fetter Length 70, which is a one-off prototype that was

00:53:56built during the 1930s. Straight away you might notice that this is in fact a half-track vehicle,

00:54:02with the main armament in a turret at the centre. Starting with the armament, this in itself is

00:54:07quite interesting, as the Length 70 37mm gun doesn't have much information about it, but it was developed by

00:54:14Ryan Mattel and fires a 0.710kg shell at 900m a second, which plugging those details into Gaijin's

00:54:21armour penetration calculator gives us a penetration of 70mm at point-blank range, 23mm more than the

00:54:29APHE shell, or the 37mm Length 45 KWK-36 gun in game, marking a good improvement. Meanwhile the

00:54:37elevation is minus 7 to plus 20, and a machine gun ball mount is situated to the right of the gun,

00:54:43though as you can see a machine gun isn't fitted, but one is also mounted on the roof of the vehicle.

00:54:49Moving on to the armour, it is likely to be very light, but it is fairly angular especially around

00:54:54the front and turret, although the turret is also open-topped, making it very vulnerable to

00:54:59aircraft and HE shells. Lastly, the top speed is 31mph or 50kmh, which is pretty good and 3 crew are

00:55:07carried. In-game this would probably work at 1.0 to 1.3, maybe as an event or premium vehicle.

00:55:13And it would certainly be an unusual looking tank destroyer to have in-game. In real life only the

00:55:18one prototype was built, and although information is sparse, it seems that after extensive testing,

00:55:24development wasn't taken any further, and the one prototype was likely scrapped during the war.

00:55:30We then come to the Panzer Sebsfallevetter Le 5cm Pak 38 Elf Getpanzerter Munitionsschlepper,

00:55:37which is basically the VK 3.02 munitions transport vehicle with the 50mm Pak 38 mounted on it. This

00:55:44came about from a July 1940 request for a light, mobile SPG vehicle for airborne and motorised troops,

00:55:51which was to be built by Ryan Matul Borsig. Like other vehicles of its type, it's open-topped from

00:55:57above and to the rear, while the whole armour only maxes out at 14.5mm and to the superstructure at 8mm,

00:56:04making this a very vulnerable vehicle. It also only has a 55hp engine, giving a top speed of

00:56:1018.6mph or 30kmh. It's not particularly fast either, and it has a crew of three.

00:56:17The 50mm Pak 38 is quite a good weapon, but seems to have been too powerful for the small vehicle,

00:56:23so a spade mount has been placed at the rear of the vehicle to be braced or dug in before firing,

00:56:28which would obviously be impractical in game, possibly resulting in some major movements to

00:56:33the vehicle when firing the gun. All in all, with the decent 50mm gun being coupled with such a slow

00:56:39and unarmoured vehicle, whose only strong point is its small size, I can't see this going any higher

00:56:44than 1.7 to 2.0, as this will probably be fairly easy pickings at higher ranks, but might do well in

00:56:51the ambush role, assuming you can get to a good spot before your enemy does. In real life only two

00:56:56prototypes were built by July 1942, but they were sent to the 19th Panzer Division in the Soviet Union

00:57:02in August 1942, who tested them and made a report on their performance, but unfortunately that report

00:57:08has been lost. Suffice to say, no further development was carried out on this vehicle, and the two vehicles

00:57:14seem to have disappeared from history, probably destroyed in combat or scrapped after being returned

00:57:19from the front lines. The Germans would also make a successor vehicle to the earlier Sebs Vellafetta,

00:57:24the appropriately named Panzer Sebs Vellafetta II, but it is now armed with a 75mm gun.

00:57:31Now interestingly, the 75mm gun fitted, is not one of the more common weapons like the KWK40,

00:57:37but instead the Krupp 75mm Lank 41 gun that we looked at earlier, when looking at some of the attempts

00:57:43to upgun the Stuk III, and it gives a penetration of 115mm at point blank range, or 70mm

00:57:48at a 30 degree angle at 400 meters, so a bit less powerful than the 75mm gun on the Stuk III F.

00:57:56Unfortunately, armour appears to be very light, maxing out at 20mm for the front and less elsewhere,

00:58:02but it is able to avoid enemies with its top speed of 31mph or 50kmh, and doesn't seem to be a huge

00:58:08vehicle while a Krupp 4 is carried. I could see it's doing well at 2.0, as it does have a good gun,

00:58:15though obviously it is easy prey for any enemies that catch it, but it would be a cool vehicle to

00:58:19have in game. In real life two prototypes were built, and these were sent to North Africa in 1942,

00:58:25with at least one of them subsequently being destroyed in combat. I suspect the other was

00:58:30also lost here, though I've seen reference to it being found at the end of the war converted to an

00:58:33armoured command post for V2 rocket launches, though it is possible that it was just a similar

00:58:38looking vehicle. So the Germans were trying out a whole bunch of tank destroyer designs,

00:58:43but as we've seen, it's often best to keep things simple, which leads us to the RSO Pak 40,

00:58:49which is basically the Raupenschlepper Ost, which was a prime mover that was converted to carry the

00:58:54Pak 40. Now this made sense as the RSO was a very popular vehicle, with 23,000 being built from late 1942,

00:59:02being far better suited to tackling the mud and snow of the eastern front than wheeled vehicles.

00:59:07Development of a tank destroyer variant began in mid 1943, with trial vehicles ready by December 1943.

00:59:15At this point, Hitler, who by the way had only seen drawings up to this point, ordered a limited

00:59:20production run, with 60 being converted and sent for troop trials with Army Group South. Understandably,

00:59:27being based on a prime mover, this vehicle is almost entirely unprotected, with the very lightly armoured

00:59:33driver's cab and 10mm thick gun shield being the most armoured points of the vehicle, with the rest

00:59:39being basically unarmoured, making it extremely vulnerable to enemies. Then there's the speed,

00:59:44which is not particularly great, maxing out at just 10.6mph or 17.2kmh, which wasn't a problem

00:59:51when towing artillery guns around but does make it more difficult to use as a tank destroyer.

00:59:56That said, the Pak 40 is a pretty good gun, with a horizontal traverse of 30 degrees in both directions,

01:00:02and an elevation of minus 5 to plus 22, while 4 crew are carried.

01:00:07To be frank, there's not a huge amount of positive things to say about this vehicle,

01:00:11and I can't see it being added higher than 2.0 to 2.3, though it might still see a modicum of success,

01:00:17and it would still be nice to see this in game in some form, albeit not as a priority.

01:00:22In real life, there was some hope that hundreds of these vehicles could be built every month,

01:00:26but in March 1944, just a few months after their debut, the reports came back on the RSO Pak 40's

01:00:32use in the field, which wasn't particularly flattering. In fact, it was so bad that production

01:00:37would be halted and the vehicle deemed, quote, a complete failure, unquote.

01:00:42So the RSO Pak 40 was a failure as a tank destroyer, but there was still the problem of effectively

01:00:47moving around Germany's various anti-tank guns, as these had been steadily increasing in weight,

01:00:53from 432kg for the 37mm Pak 36, 986kg for the 50mm Pak 38, to a whopping 1425kg for the 75mm Pak 40,

01:01:07so these could no longer be manhandled around the battlefield and required dedicated vehicles to

01:01:11move them around effectively, which led to around 70 Pak 40's being lost on the Eastern Front at one

01:01:17point, not due to combat, but by being destroyed by their own crews to prevent their capture by the

01:01:22Soviets, due to an inability to move them out of harm's way. With the new 88mm Pak 43 now in development,

01:01:29and ultimately weighing in at 3700kg, Hitler demanded that all future heavy anti-tank guns

01:01:36were to be self-propelled. This led to a number of weapon carrier designs, otherwise known as

01:01:41Waffentrager, with one of these designs already in-game, with the chassis made by Steyr, and the

01:01:47turret and gun provided by Krupp. However the Steyr design wasn't even chosen for production and remained

01:01:52a prototype, with two other designs also produced, one by Ryan Mattel and Borsig, and one by Ardelt and Krupp.

01:02:00Looking at the Ryan Mattel Borsig design first, this used a lengthened Panzer 38T chassis, with the road

01:02:06wheels more spaced out due to no more being added, and straight away you can see that the turret

01:02:11seems similar to the in-game Waffentrager, being open-topped though also a little bigger and it

01:02:16was still to be armed with the 88mm Pak 43, giving an in-game penetration of 222mm at 500m with its

01:02:24APC-BC shell, which is a great performance. Armour would naturally be very light, plus the turret is

01:02:31open-topped, while the top speed is likely around 18-21mph or 30-35kmh, similar to the Steyr Krupp

01:02:38design and a crew of four is carried. This would work at 5.3-5.7, either folded with the in-game

01:02:45Waffentrager or as an event vehicle, and while not outstanding it would be a cool addition to the

01:02:50game. Then of course there is the Ardelt Krupp design, which right away you can see is substantially

01:02:55different with regards to the armament placement, with the gun fitted to a rather large rotating gun

01:03:00shield rather than a turret, which admittedly doesn't cover the entire front but leaves the sides

01:03:05and rear exposed and the armour of the shield is only about 10mm or 20mm for the hull, so won't

01:03:11provide much protection even at the front, though the gun does have a very high elevation which might

01:03:16help in some cases. Again the Panzer 38T chassis has been used and it can reach a top speed of 22mph

01:03:23or 36kmh, so slightly faster than the Steyr Krupp design, while a crew of four would be carried.

01:03:29Personally I would like to see the Ardelt Waffentrager added as a priority at 5.3-5.7,

01:03:36the reason for which you will see in a second, and while similar to the in-game Waffentrager,

01:03:40it does look very different with regards to the gun shield, and it would be nice to get another

01:03:44Waffentrager variant in-game. In real life the Ryan Matul Borsig design was rejected rather quickly,

01:03:50as was the Steyr Krupp design, but the Ardelt Krupp design was chosen to go into production and 82 were

01:03:57ordered along with 18 unarmed munitions carriers. As it turns out only 7 were made, but these would

01:04:03go on to see combat in 1945 against the Soviets while defending Iberswalder, and at least one made

01:04:09it to Brandenburg. And after the fighting was over, one of these was captured by the Soviets in good

01:04:14enough condition that it was put on display in Kubinka, and it is still around today. This means

01:04:19that rather than add the actual legitimate chosen for production and saw combat against the Soviets

01:04:25variant, Daijin for some reason decided to add a prototype that didn't see service, so adding the

01:04:30Ardelt Waffentrager would be a long overdue vehicle for adding to War Thunder. There are also some

01:04:36vehicles that are intended as anti-air vehicles but would function in-game more as tank destroyers,

01:04:41including this rather unusual Vomag 7or 660, armed with the 88mm Flak 36. So the Vomag 7or 660 is a

01:04:50bus chassis, which makes sense since it is presumably already designed for large weights, and can go

01:04:56to a top speed of 36mph or 58kmh, which isn't too bad but would only be achieved a bore on roads,

01:05:02with cross-country speeds being far slower. And of course the whole vehicle is unarmoured,

01:05:07beside a gun shield that was sometimes installed to protect the gun crew. However, the gun does make

01:05:12up for this, with a penetration of 140mm at 500m in-game, making this a very hard hitting weapon,

01:05:19while having a crew of about 5, though many more loaders were assigned in real life, bringing this

01:05:24up to 11 or 12. In-game this could work around 4.3 to 4.7, being faster on road than the SDK of said 9

01:05:32that has an 88mm Flak 37 in-game, but it does suffer in regards to cross-country travel, but it would

01:05:38still be nice to see this rather unusual looking vehicle. There are of course many other half-track

01:05:43or truck based tank destroyer vehicles, with many of these already in-game, and with a variety of

01:05:49weapons also represented. However, one that is missing is the SDK of said 251 armed with the 50mm Pak 38,

01:05:57which would fill a gap for this vehicle as it already mounts the 37mm Pak 36 and 75mm Pak 40,

01:06:04so this weapon would be a good middle ground armament, probably being added at 1.7,

01:06:09preferably as a tech tree vehicle. Indeed, this is the main problem with these half-track based

01:06:14tank destroyers already in-game, as they have generally been added as premium vehicles,

01:06:19limiting the ability to use them, so I do think that other half-track vehicles like the SDK of said

01:06:24250 that also had these weapons should also be added but in the regular tech tree, helping to fix this

01:06:30issue. We could also get the Selbstvala Fetter SDK of said 63, which has been given a more

01:06:36substantial superstructure and is armed with the Russian 76.2mm M1936, which wasn't at this point

01:06:42converted to fire German shells, so would use Russian shells, being able to penetrate 75mm at 500m

01:06:50with the BR350A shell, while having a horizontal traverse of 30 degrees right and left, and an elevation

01:06:56of minus 7 to plus 20, as well as a top speed of 31mph 50km and a crew of 6, though only about 3-4mm of

01:07:04armour. This could be added at 1.7, giving us another unusual half-track vehicle and showcasing

01:07:10German attempts to use foreign guns on some of these vehicles, though in this case only 9 were produced

01:07:15and sent to North Africa in early 1942, with these suffering from mechanical breakdowns, and by the

01:07:21end of 1942, they had all been lost. So as you can see, the Germans had an absolutely bewildering

01:07:28number of tank destroyers based on existing German tanks, as well as some built from scratch. However,

01:07:33we now move on to German tank destroyers based on captured British, French and Soviet tanks and other

01:07:38vehicles, giving us even more unique tank destroyers to add. And we'll start off with the SDK of said 135,

01:07:45or as it is more commonly known, the Marder 1, which was based on the French Lorraine 37L tractor,

01:07:51with this conversion being developed by Alfred Becker, who designed many of the converted vehicles

01:07:57in this section. This design involved replacing the original main cargo carrying area at the rear of the

01:08:02vehicle, with a new superstructure armed with the 75mm Pack 40, with this having a horizontal traverse of

01:08:0832 degrees left and right, and an elevation of minus 5 to plus 22, while a 7.92mm MG34 machine

01:08:16gun was also carried for closing defence. Unfortunately, armour is virtually non-existent,

01:08:21with the thickest armour on the hull being 12mm and around 10mm for the superstructure,

01:08:26leaving the crew very vulnerable. Speaking of crew, this was either 4-5 depending on the source,

01:08:32while the top speed is 21mph out of 34kmh. This could probably work at 2.3,

01:08:37probably folded with the other Marder vehicles, and while not an outstanding vehicle, it would be

01:08:43nice to see the first Marder variant in-game. In real life 170 vehicles were converted from July to

01:08:49August 1942, with the majority staying in France, with these fighting during the allied invasion of

01:08:54Normandy, with most being lost in France, though some would also serve on the Eastern Front and even

01:09:00North Africa, though only one Marder 1 survives to this day. There was also a Marder 1 armed with a

01:09:0650mm Pak 38, though information on this is sparse, and it seems like it was probably intended for

01:09:12French service. Sticking with the French tractor conversions, we then have a conversion based on

01:09:17the Samura MCG, the Panzer Jäger Fahrzeug Mitt 7.5cm Pak 40 Alf Fagastell S307F, which has had some

01:09:27changes to the front of the vehicle, and is again armed with the 75mm Pak 40 and a 7.92mm MG 42,

01:09:35while having a top speed of 15.5mph or 25kmh, and the armour is unlikely to exceed 10mm, though this is

01:09:43angled to an extent and a crew of 5 is carried. Again, this would probably be a 2.3 vehicle and

01:09:49would be more or less a worse performing Marder 1, but it would still be nice to see this conversion

01:09:53represented in War Thunder. In real life, at least 16 vehicles were converted, with these being

01:09:59assigned to the 21st Panzer Division, and would serve during the allied invasion of Normandy, and

01:10:04although they had some successes against allied tanks, they would all be lost by September 1944.

01:10:10The Renault UE would also be used as an SPG type vehicle, with a 37mm Pak 36 mounted straight on

01:10:16it with little modification, giving no protection for the gun crew besides the gun shield, while it

01:10:21had a top speed of 19mph 30kmh, a maximum armour of 9mm for the vehicle and presumably 2-3 crew,

01:10:29and this could work at 1.0 as a unique looking tank destroyer. Of course, while French tractors were

01:10:34used, so were French tanks, which were often not suited to German needs as gun tanks, but were well

01:10:39suited to conversions, such as the Renault R35, a small two man tank with a rather anemic 37mm gun,

01:10:47but it was available in large numbers and was suited for conversion to a tank destroyer vehicle,

01:10:52with at least one early attempt at mounting the 37mm Pak 36 on a pair of R35s. However,

01:10:59a more concerted effort was made to replace the turret with a new superstructure armed with a 47mm

01:11:04cannon PUV VZ38 made in Czechoslovakia by Skoda, and the same gun as fitted to the Panzer Jäger 1,

01:11:12giving a much improved in-game penetration of 66mm at 500m with its APC shell, versus 36mm of the 37mm SA38

01:11:21gun, so almost double the penetration. Armour was also pretty decent compared to some other tank destroyer

01:11:28vehicles with a maximum armour thickness for the hull of 43mm, while the new superstructure max is out at

01:11:35either 20mm or 25mm. Not great, but better than the Marder 1, and it is sloped to a limited extent,

01:11:42though it is open top to making it vulnerable to aircraft. Speed is also lackluster, maxing out at

01:11:48just 12mph or 20kmh, making this pretty slow even on road, and being even slower off-road while a crew of

01:11:553 was carried. This could probably work at 1.7, folded with the Panzer Jäger 1 or maybe at 1.3 on account of

01:12:03its far slower speed, but it will have the advantage of better armour, making this a bit of a side grade

01:12:08in some respects, and while this maybe wouldn't be hugely popular in-game or a priority for adding, it would

01:12:14still be nice to see this early German converted tank destroyer. About 174 of these Panzer Jäger R35s

01:12:20would be converted from May 1941 to October 1941, along with 26 command vehicles, and those that were

01:12:28available would be mobilised for the invasion of the Soviet Union, but these suffered greatly due to

01:12:32mechanical issues and breakdowns due to the weather and terrain, and they don't seem to have been a great

01:12:38success on the Eastern Front. Those kept in France had a better time of things in this regard due to the less

01:12:44arduous weather and terrain, as well as being closer to spare parts, but they would have been long

01:12:49obsolete by the allied invasion of Normandy, and were all knocked out by the end of the campaign,

01:12:54so only one still exists to this day in Switzerland. It should be noted that a 50mm armed variant was

01:13:01planned, but ultimately this doesn't seem to have been built, likely due to the aforementioned issues

01:13:06with breakdowns and better designs becoming available. So moving on we now come to the

01:13:11Hotchkiss H35 slash H38 slash H39. Basically the H38 had a more powerful 120hp engine than the H35,

01:13:20which only had a 75hp engine, and the H39 had the longer 37mm gun, though both the French and

01:13:27Germans didn't really differentiate the variants all that much when referring to the tanks, and seem to

01:13:32have treated them the same regardless. And compared to the R35, this is already better in some areas,

01:13:38having a better top speed of 22mph at 36kmh, but still had a two man crew and not great gun.

01:13:45Thus, once again it was decided to convert some of these tanks into tank destroyers, giving us the

01:13:507.5cm Pak 40 SF-Alf Gschutzwagen 39HF, or Panzerjäger H39 as I will be referring to it, with this being

01:13:59converted along the same lines as the Lorraine 39L, with a rear mounted superstructure in place of

01:14:04the turret armed with a 75mm Pak 40, but it also has thicker armour, now coming in at 20mm for the

01:14:12superstructure and around 34mm for the hull, which isn't too bad, and 4 crew are carried. Like the

01:14:18Marder 1, this could work at 2.3, being marginally faster and better armoured, and would give us a

01:14:23decent tank destroyer for the low tiers. Only 24 of these tank destroyers were built, and again,

01:14:28they were retained in France, seeing service against the allies during the Normandy invasion,

01:14:33and likely all being lost by the end of the campaign. Last but not least for French tanks

01:14:38converted to tank destroyers, we have the 7.5cm Pak 40 SF-Alf Gschutzwagen FCM-F, also sometimes

01:14:46referred to as the Marder 1, though I'll be calling it the Panzerjäger FCM, and this was based on the

01:14:52FCM 36, one of the more innovative French tanks of World War 2, with angular welded armour and a

01:14:59diesel engine, but only 100 were built, with Germany capturing 50, and it again suffered the problems

01:15:06of previous French tanks, so was chosen for conversion into a tank destroyer. Straight away,

01:15:11this is one of the more unusual looking conversions, with the entirety of the tank taken up by the new

01:15:16superstructure, which was again fitted with the 75mm Pak 40 and a 7.92mm MG34 machine gun.

01:15:24Meanwhile, the frontal hull is 40mm, and the new superstructure is about 15-20mm. While the top

01:15:31speed was originally 14.9mph or 24kmh, though some sources say it was reduced by 1kmh after the

01:15:38conversion, so it's unfortunately not very fast, while a crew of 4 was also carried. Like the other

01:15:44French converted tanks, this would be added at 2.3 and would certainly be a popular vehicle due to

01:15:50the popularity of the FCM 36 and its unusual looks, and I think adding this tank destroyer should be

01:15:57somewhat of a priority compared to the other French conversions, other than maybe the actual Marder 1.

01:16:03In real life, 10 of these tank destroyers were converted, which makes sense given how few that

01:16:08were built and then captured by the Germans, and like the other conversions, these fought the allies in

01:16:12France and were lost by September 1944. So as we can see, the Germans converted a lot of French tanks,

01:16:20which makes sense given how many French vehicles were captured and the fact that Germany now occupied

01:16:25France. But of course many British tanks would also be captured in France, Greece and North Africa,

01:16:30with some of these also being converted into tank destroyers. There was an initial attempt to convert

01:16:35the Mk VI light tank with it to be fitted with a 75mm Pack 40, but it appears that while work on a

01:16:42prototype was begun, it doesn't appear to have actually been finished, so probably couldn't be added.

01:16:48There were however many conversions based on the British Universal Carrier or Bren Carrier,

01:16:52as it is usually known, with a wide variety of weapons fitted to this vehicle. Starting with the Bren

01:16:58Carrier's stats, it had a top speed of 30mph or 48kmh and very light armour of about 10mm in an open

01:17:06topped compartment, making this a fast albeit vulnerable vehicle. Now when it came to carrying

01:17:11out conversions of the Bren, many different weapons and configurations were tried, including the French

01:17:1725mm Hotchkiss mounted at the front of a largely unaltered Bren Carrier, with that weapon having a

01:17:22penetration of 56mm at 500m, and would allow this to be a good scoot and shoot tank destroyer at 1.0 to

01:17:291.3, especially with its small size making it difficult to spot. Then there was a conversion

01:17:35with a 37mm Pack 36, the gun now being a bit more prominent and making it stand out a bit more than

01:17:41the 25mm variant, but also having a worse performance of 31mm at 500m vs 56 for the 25mm gun, so this would

01:17:50be less of a priority to add and would be best placed at 1.0. Then there is a 47mm armed variant,

01:17:56which when I first read the calibre I assumed to be a Czech gun like on the Panzer Jager 1, but this

01:18:01was actually an Austrian gun, though it is probably more known for its use by the Italians who built it

01:18:07under licence as the Kanone Dark 4732, having an in-game penetration of 41mm at 500m, with its best APHE

01:18:16shell. However, according to research done by Ghost Maxi on the War Thunder forums, the Germans

01:18:22produced their own ammunition for what they called the 47mm Pack 35-36, and even adapted Czechoslovakian

01:18:30ammunition to be fired from the gun, giving penetrations at point-blank range of around 47-64mm,

01:18:37with APHE and APC shells, while the Panzer Granata 40 APCR shell can also be fired,

01:18:43though does give lower penetration than on the Czech 47mm gun, about 85-90mm at point-blank range

01:18:50vs 119mm, but these shells all perform better than the 37mm Pack 36, meaning this could be added at 1.3,

01:18:58though again the gun does make this vehicle harder to conceal. Lastly for Brain Carrier Tank Destroyer

01:19:03variants, we have this example fitted not just with the 75mm Pack 97-38, but also with an armoured

01:19:10superstructure, making this more of a purpose-built tank destroyer unlike the previous versions.

01:19:16Now the Pack 97-38 is quite interesting because this is actually the French 75mm model 1897 that the

01:19:24Germans had captured in large numbers after the fall of France. Initially these weren't used very much,

01:19:29but after encountering heavily armoured Soviet tanks on the Eastern Front, the Germans took the barrels of

01:19:34the model 1897s and placed them on the 50mm Pack 38 carriage with a new muzzle brake, and issued new

01:19:42hollow charge shells. The heat shells used were not quite the same ones as we have in game, using French

01:19:48propelling charges, but should perform much the same as the heat shells in game, with the best performing

01:19:53heat shell penetrating 115mm, which is a pretty good result. There is also an AP shell that can penetrate

01:20:0085-90mm a point blank range, which is also pretty good, and HE shells can also be fired. The only

01:20:06downside to this weapon is that the muzzle velocity is rather low at 570m a second when firing AP shells,

01:20:13and this reduces further to just 450m a second when firing heat shells, making this rather unsuited to

01:20:19hitting fast moving or long distance targets. The armoured superstructure is no doubt lightly armoured,

01:20:24but does provide protection against small arms fire, at least from the front and sides, making this more

01:20:29survivable than previous variants, giving it a boost in usefulness. This could probably be added at 2.3,

01:20:36as while not as armoured as the StuG III-A, it does have a better performance with regards to its shells,

01:20:41with a higher muzzle velocity and penetration, and I could see this Bren Carrier conversion being a bit

01:20:46of a meme vehicle, and it would be nice to see this unusual vehicle and its weapon represented in War Thunder.

01:20:52In real life, it seems like only one vehicle was converted, and presumably wasn't very successful,

01:20:56or was superseded by better vehicles, thus removing the need for conversions of this type.

01:21:02Also, just before we leave the Bren, there is a variant that appears to have three Panzerschreck

01:21:06launchers fitted pointing forward, which could in theory be added, but I don't think they would

01:21:10be a good fit for the game. Then moving on to British tanks, there don't appear to have been

01:21:14many conversions, but there was one interesting conversion done in 1942, to a captured British

01:21:20Matilda Mk II, that was given the nickname Oswald, where the Hawksy Lear Commando, or High Seas

01:21:28Instructional Command, removed the turret and replaced it with the 50mm Kw K38 from the Panzer III,

01:21:35with a gun shield provided to give protection to the gun crew, as well as two 7.92mm MG15s mounted on

01:21:42top of the gun shield, giving a good amount of machine gun fire at the front. Unfortunately for us,

01:21:48the 50mm gun used is not the excellent length 6D as used on the Panzer III J1 and onwards,

01:21:53but the length 42 gun from the Panzer III F to the J, giving a penetration at 500m of 62mm,

01:22:00a not awful performance but obviously not the greatest either. However, it does still retain

01:22:05the great armour of the Matilda II, with the whole front maxing out at 75mm, the sides 70mm and the

01:22:12rear 55mm, making this a greatly protected tank, though of course the gun shield does represent a

01:22:18weak point, especially since 3 of the 4 crew will be manning the gun, making this easy to knock out

01:22:23from the air or via HE shells, while the top speed of 16mph or 26kmh does make it a rather ponderous

01:22:31target as well. I could see this vehicle working at maybe 2.0, as the heavy armour will be of limited

01:22:36effectiveness due to the crew's location and its limited speed, but its gun is still effective,

01:22:42and this would be a rather unusual tank destroyer for the German roster. In real life only the one

01:22:46example was converted, which was possibly captured in North Africa or France, though due to it ended

01:22:52up in the Netherlands, I suspect it was captured in France, and this was used for training and even

01:22:57amphibious exercises, though its ultimate fate is unknown. So now we can move on to the Soviets,

01:23:03and surprisingly we don't seem to have that many conversions to look at, which kind of makes sense

01:23:08because a lot of the time their tanks were more useful as gun tanks. Though we do have an example

01:23:13of Soviet T-26's converted to take the PAK 97-38, which as mentioned earlier can penetrate 115mm

01:23:20of heat shells or around 90mm with AP shells at 500m, a big improvement over the T-26's 45mm gun,

01:23:28but due to the removal of the turret, only a gun shield and superstructure is available for protection.

01:23:34That said, the T-26 only has 15mm of armour anyway, so this isn't a huge loss, though aircraft

01:23:40suddenly become a much bigger threat to the 4 crew, while the top speed is around 18.6mph or 30kmh.

01:23:47This could probably work at 2.3, and would be a good counterpart to the Bren carriers converted to

01:23:52carry the same weapon, and it would help bolster German tank destroyers in the early tiers. In real life,

01:23:57only 10 or so T-26's were converted, likely due to a lack of workable tanks, and the fact that they

01:24:03were superseded by better tank destroyer designs. There was also conversions of the Soviet T-20

01:24:09tractor to carry 37mm PAK 36 guns, which could be added if needed, being mostly unarmoured and having

01:24:15a top speed of around 31mph or 50kmh, which might make for a fast tank destroyer to have in the early

01:24:22tiers. So surprisingly, we are now finished with the Soviets, as like I said, the Germans didn't

01:24:27seem to have made many conversions, at least in a large scale, which like I say makes sense considering

01:24:32how useful those tanks were as regular gun tanks, as opposed to converted tank destroyers.

01:24:38Unfortunately of the Americans, there aren't really any examples of tanks converted, though some

01:24:43half-tracks were converted to carry similar weapons, mainly anti-aircraft weapons, but I will

01:24:48likely cover them when looking at German SPAA vehicles, which doesn't really leave us with

01:24:52any other American vehicles to look at. Lastly, we now come to the Italians,

01:24:57and here we have an odd situation where the Germans didn't convert Italian vehicles to tank destroyers,

01:25:02but did use a lot of existing Italian tank destroyer designs, or Sereventi vehicles,

01:25:07after the Italian surrender. However, what makes the situation a bit ambiguous is the fact that due to

01:25:13Northern Italy remaining under German control, they were able to produce these German tank

01:25:18destroyers for their own use, including the Sereventi L40-4732, M42-7518, M43-7534, M43-7546,

01:25:30and M43-10525. Now as they were produced by the Germans, they might technically qualify for the

01:25:37German tech tree, though I personally don't think they should be added, unless covering a specific

01:25:42gap in the tech tree, or as the last unlockable vehicles in a folder, kind of like how the German

01:25:47vehicles in the Italian tech tree are implemented. So looking through the full list of tank destroyers,

01:25:53it's easy to see why many of these haven't been added, due to being duplicates, or having very

01:25:58similar performance to existing vehicles. But I truly can't understand why some of these vehicles

01:26:03haven't been added, like the Ardelt, Waffentraeger, the Stug-4, Stug-3C, and the many tank destroyers

01:26:09converted from captured vehicles. So hopefully this video might bring these tank destroyers to the

01:26:14attention of the wider player base, and I'd be interested on your thoughts on these vehicles

01:26:18in the comments below. For the next video, I will probably look at Hungarian WW2 tanks,

01:26:22then hopefully German SPGs and how it's a base vehicles, and we will see where to go from there.

01:26:28Anyway, I hope you've enjoyed the video, I've been Toreno, and I'll see you next time.

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