00:04We're going to take a closer look at the case against Elizabeth Holmes.
00:07A jury convicted the Theranos founder of four counts of defrauding investors yesterday.
00:12One of her former employees was the first to blow the whistle about the problems at the company.
00:17Tyler Schultz says he quit after Holmes and her partner, Sonny Balwani,
00:21ignored his complaints about falsified research.
00:24He then shared his concerns with a state regulator and then he went to the Wall Street Journal.
00:30Tyler, by the way, is the grandson of former U.S. Secretary of State George Schultz,
00:33who was on the board of Theranos.
00:35First on CBS Mornings, Tyler Schultz joins us to respond to the Holmes verdict.
00:40Tyler, good morning. We're really glad to talk to you this morning.
00:43First, let's start with the verdict. It was a mixed verdict.
00:45Did the jury get it right, do you think?
00:49I think on at least four counts, they did get it right. Yeah.
00:54What do you mean?
00:55The four counts were against defrauding the investors, yeah.
01:01Yeah, so there are four counts that they had a guilty verdict for defrauding investors,
01:06but there were another four counts that were for defrauding patients.
01:11And those four, she was found not guilty.
01:14And then there were an additional three others where there was no verdict that was reached.
01:18But for me, one was enough, so I'll take four.
01:23One was enough.
01:25Tyler, I have to say, you seem in a very good mood this morning.
01:27I was wondering how you were going to feel because, listen, a lot of people are applauding what you did.
01:32You were a 24-, 23-year-old who had worked at the company for less than a year.
01:36You realized the emperor had no clothes.
01:38You raised the issue with Elizabeth Holmes, with Mr. Balwani, with your grandfather, with your mother.
01:44There were fractures in the family.
01:46You were told to stand down, and you did not.
01:49Why did you keep going when you were up against so much power?
01:54Yeah, I mean, it was tough.
01:57There were a lot of moments when it was really, really tough to keep going.
02:00But I am just extremely stubborn, and I knew I was right, and I was not going to lay down and say that I was wrong when I knew with 100% certainty that I was right.
02:13Why do you think that they believed her over you, someone who was on site there at the company and could see what was going on?
02:21Why do you think people even closest to you did not believe you?
02:27Well, Elizabeth is a very, very charismatic person.
02:31When she speaks to you, she makes you feel like you are the most important person in her world in that moment.
02:37And she almost has this reality distortion field around her that people could just get sucked into.
02:44Even I, when I was working with the product every single day, seeing it fail time after time after time,
02:50I could go have a five-minute conversation with Elizabeth and feel like I was saving the world again.
02:55And it's really a hard phenomenon to explain.
03:00But she sucked a lot of people into that.
03:04Yeah, Kyla, that's well expressed.
03:06I think our viewers should know that this is not just about investors.
03:09There were people who got bad results from this product, a woman who thought she had HIV,
03:13another woman who thought she might be miscarrying a baby.
03:16So the stakes were huge for patients as well.
03:18From your perspective, from where you're sitting, I'm really curious about the personal side of this.
03:24This is your grandfather, George Shultz, a titan of the 20th century, former Secretary of State.
03:30Your relationship with him got really rocky.
03:33At one point, you were communicating only through lawyers.
03:35What kind of cost did you face as an individual, as a grandson, in taking on this fight?
03:42Yeah, that was extremely tough.
03:45You know, this whole saga has taken a financial, emotional end tolls on my relationships.
03:50And the toll that I took on my grandfather's relationship was probably the worst.
03:55I mean, it was, it's tough to explain.
04:02I had a few very honest conversations with him.
04:06We ultimately did reconcile.
04:09He never quite apologized, but he at least admitted that I was right about what I saw.
04:15And he congratulated me for doing the right thing.
04:17And actually, in one of my last conversations with him, he told me a story about how he got Elizabeth invited during Fleet Week in San Francisco to go give a speech to United States sailors, United States Navy sailors.
04:32And he said with tears in her eyes, she told the room about how she was so honored and humbled that her life's work would be saving the lives of United States servicemen and women.
04:43And he said he just could not believe that anybody could get in front of these people who are willing to put their lives on the line for our country and lie directly to their face as convincingly as she lied.
04:56Yeah, a lot of people are asking that question.
04:57And I feel like him telling me that story, yeah.
05:01He's telling, he's saying, Tyler, you were right.
05:04Yeah.
05:05Yeah, I feel like him telling me that story was him acknowledging that I was right.
05:09And he finally was starting to see through her lies.
05:13Tyler, you are who you are because you're willing to use your voice.
05:17And you were on the list of witnesses who would possibly take the stand.
05:21Did you want to?
05:22And if you did take the stand, what would you have said?
05:28You know, it was kind of nice not having to go testify.
05:32I didn't have to prepare.
05:33I also, I would have been happy to testify to get up there and have the opportunity to tell my story under oath.
05:38What I would have said, I mean, I don't think we have enough time for that.
05:45But I would have said that, you know, I could have gone into detail about how the technology didn't work and the various ways the technology didn't work.
05:52I would have explained my conversations that I had with my managers, with a vice president, with a CEO, with a board member, with regulators, with journalists.
06:00You know, I had to talk to a lot of layers before anything really started happening.
06:06And so if I were on the stand, I probably would have gone through all those layers.
06:10Tyler, do you want jail time for Elizabeth Holmes?
06:13You know, whether Elizabeth Holmes spends time in prison or not doesn't really affect my life.
06:26I'm happy that she was found guilty for these crimes.
06:32And I feel like I got my vindication from that, and I feel good about that.
06:37As far as the jail time goes, you know, whether it's 1, 5, 10, I don't really care as much.
06:45I'm just happy that she was found guilty.
06:48I feel like I won.
06:49I'm vindicated.
06:51I'm glad you feel vindicated.
06:54It's a very brave thing you did, Tyler.
06:55Very brave.
06:56You risked your professional and personal life, and I commend you for that.
07:00Tyler Schultz, thank you so much for joining us.
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