- 2 days ago
Deterring Russia is a shared responsibility of all NATO allies, Lithuania's Foreign Minister Kestutis Budrys told DW. But he sees less enthusiasm among the alliance's members than at the beginning of the war in Ukraine.
Category
đź—ž
NewsTranscript
00:01Since day one of Russia's war on Ukraine, Lithuania has been one of the most vocal backers
00:07of Kyiv.
00:08The small country in the Baltics has been pushing for more military aid for Ukraine
00:13and a clear path towards NATO and the EU.
00:18More than three and a half years into the war, Lithuania itself is facing hybrid attacks
00:23and airspace violations.
00:25How serious is the situation?
00:28Here at the Lithuanian embassy in Berlin, we had a chance to catch up with Foreign Minister
00:33Kestutis Budrys.
00:37Minister Budrys, good to see you here in Berlin since the very start of Russia's full-scale
00:43invasion of Ukraine.
00:45Your country has been a strong supporter of Kyiv.
00:48At the same time, Lithuania has been and is a NATO frontline state due to its strategic
00:56location bordering Russia's exclave, Kaliningrad and Belarus.
01:02And that means that you are on the frontline of a potential conflict with Russia.
01:08Are you ready for such a scenario?
01:11We should raise the question whether we are all ready for these type of scenarios.
01:17Yes, we are on the frontline.
01:19Yes, we are more in the proximity of the different threats.
01:24But when we talk about preparedness, when we talk about deterrence, when we talk about capabilities,
01:29that's the question for us all.
01:31That's not only for the frontline nations.
01:33We are doing our part.
01:35We are doing our share.
01:37And that is increasing the defense spending.
01:39Next year we will have 5.4% of GDP defense spending.
01:43That will be the highest number in NATO and in all the free world.
01:48So that's on our part.
01:49But it's only part of the efforts, of collective efforts.
01:52The other part is what all the alliance is doing.
01:56And in this we have two important steps already that we fulfilled.
02:00And now we are moving to the implementation part.
02:03The first one was regional defense plans.
02:06And we, as the allies, agreed, so what will be the overall idea and the plans how we will
02:12fight if it is needed.
02:14And how we will defeat our enemies if it will be needed.
02:18So first step.
02:19The second step was we set up the NATO capability targets, meaning what is needed for Germany,
02:24what is needed for Spain, what is needed for Belgium and for Lithuania and the Nordic countries.
02:30So we agreed on it.
02:32That was politically signed.
02:33Now it's the part of implementation.
02:35And on implementation part I see less enthusiasm and less mobilization comparing to the one
02:43that was in the previous stages.
02:45And at the same time it seems that Russia is testing NATO when we look at recent air incursions,
02:55especially in the eastern part of the alliance.
02:58Do you think that or do you have the impression that the Kremlin is getting bolder and bolder
03:03because maybe they see how difficult it is for Europe and for NATO to speed up their efforts
03:10to take ownership of their own defense?
03:13What Russia is doing is shaking our deterrence in the peacetime, intends to create some gray zone.
03:21That's why we saw interference and disruption of our critical undersea infrastructure in the Baltic Sea.
03:28That's why we saw the incidents with the drones and now we see the incidents with the meteorological balloons and all of them save the same purpose.
03:38And this purpose is to question our readiness, to question our deterrence and we have to deny it.
03:45So, first of all, we have to restore the deterrence, as we did in the Baltic Sea.
03:49So, when we had those disruptions of critical infrastructure, NATO reacted with a Baltic Sentry mission, increased posture in the Baltic Sea, increased the number of vessels,
03:59also reviewed the procedures of the littoral nations around the Baltic Sea, what we are doing in the case there is a vessel without a flag, false flag and so forth.
04:08We increased a bit the price for Russians to operate the shadow fleet and, guess what, one year there are no disruptions of our critical undersea infrastructure.
04:17It worked. So, the same practice, the same lessons we have to apply elsewhere. And same we have to do with meteorological balloons right now in Lithuania.
04:26This is the danger.
04:27Those are those cigarette smuggling balloons that…
04:29Belarus is instrumentalizing again international criminal, you know, activities. That was illegal migration.
04:38That they instrumentalized and then weaponized against us through our borders. We tackled that problem and we are bringing, by the way, Belarus accountable to International Court of Justice for it,
04:50because that was the state-organized activities against us. Now they are instrumentalizing international organized activities, smuggling operations.
05:00And with the smuggling of cigarettes, especially of cigarettes in Belarus, we have to understand that there are two huge factories that dedicate the big part of their capacity for smuggling, not for exports, for smuggling.
05:12And it, you know, it pumps up the finances to the regime. So, those operations were conducted in many ways. Now they use meteorological balloons.
05:20When they saw that they are interrupting and disrupting our civil aviation, we had to shut down our airport again and again. And it cost our airlines millions and millions in losses.
05:31We have to deny this thinking of the regime. So, that's why Lithuania, first of all, increased the, you know, the activities on our border with what concerns protection, with detection, with the…
05:41But the border is now closed.
05:43Yeah. For migration, it was closed with the fence that we built in one year. Now we are putting the radars and other systems on the border and we closed the border, land border with Belarus.
05:53That was the one thing that we do on our side. What we have to do on the European level and with the solidarity that was expressed by so many nations, and I'm really grateful for it, we have to impose sanctions on Belarus for hybrid activities.
06:09Because within the Belarusian sanction regime, there is one criteria lacking, and this is the hybrid attacks against EU. So, this is what is happening. They're attacking us. We have to respond with the more robust…
06:21So, we will try to convince your fellow foreign ministers on the EU level to impose new sanctions against Belarus in which area?
06:29Yeah. So, that's what we have to do. First, put the criteria, because now it's the human rights, then now it's the assistance to Russia for aggression against Ukraine.
06:41But now we have to add hybrid. So, that will be step A. Then step B, we have to review the sectors and sanctions where we want to impose sanctions.
06:52And is the border maybe part of a bigger deal? Because we see that Alexander Lukashenko, the leader of Belarus, seems to be eager to make a deal with the West.
07:03He has been talking to Mr. Trump, the US president. He has released a number of political prisoners. So, is he trying to make a deal?
07:14We see the attempts from the United States side diplomatically to achieve the release of all the political prisoners as they are called in America political hostages.
07:29And I think we should also apply this term, because it describes the situation more precisely, what they are, the hostages that are taken by the regime.
07:37And there are more than 1,000 of them, 1,200 or 1,300. And that is the largest number in all the continent, what concerns political prisoners.
07:46They want to achieve this, as they had the good results already with some political prisoners. So, they want to achieve the big result.
07:55And we support these efforts. And we support these efforts, because I'm convinced that if someone can do this, that's the President Trump and his special envoy.
08:04On the other hand, we see that the regime is using this period of time in trying to soften the environment around it and also to put the pressure on the neighbors.
08:16So, it cannot happen at the same time. We cannot go into the talks, meaning we, our United States allies, go into the talks.
08:25And at the same time, the regime puts and shows the strength against the neighbors and forces to achieve some of the goals of it.
08:32So, what we are seeing is that the regime is manipulating this current situation.
08:37And that is our message also to our transatlantic allies, that this is the problem.
08:42We are talking about the NATO frontline here. We are talking about the EU frontline here, when we are talking with the European partners.
08:47And this is our shared responsibility to bring back the order. And we know how to do it. It worked well previously.
08:54So, it will this time.
08:56And we can assume that Belarus does nothing without Vladimir Putin's knowledge or his consent, right?
09:03So, would you say that this apparent charming offensive of Belarus is part of Russia's efforts to weaken the West's resolve?
09:13I wouldn't speculate about something that I don't specifically know.
09:18But from what we know from previous times, looking into this cycle of elections in Belarus, so-called elections that end up with the beaten people in the streets and political prisoners.
09:31So, when we went down, then, yes, there was a charming offensive from Belarus again.
09:36And we released the sanctions, and it went down again. And it goes in the waves. And in all these waves of our, you know, warmed relations with Belarus, of course Russia was part of the game.
09:49And during your recent visit to the US, did you have the impression, were you reassured that the US will not let Europe down should Vladimir Putin decide to attack NATO territory?
10:03The message is the same as it was before Hague summit. During Hague summit or after it, Europe should step up. And we should take our neighborhood seriously.
10:14We should increase our defense spending. We should increase our capabilities. We should be a good ally of the United States.
10:21That's what they expect. It's not about leaving us behind. It's about the interest of the United States to have a strong partner.
10:29And Germany is building up capabilities in Lithuania with a brigade to be fully deployed by the end of 2027. And that's, of course, crucial for Lithuania and the support from NATO allies and Germany in particular.
10:44But is everything that is happening with regards to the brigade happening at the pace that is sufficient from your perspective?
10:51Of course, we could do it faster, but we will measure, you know, when the deadlines will approach. But we are all in and into it.
10:58What I'm happy about, I see also the huge progress on German side and this seriousness and readiness. I see the increased defense spending that sends the message that it's not only about brigade.
11:12It's about armed forces of Germany, you know, with division going after the brigade, with the Corps going after the division. And this is the strong deterrence message.
11:20That's what we want. We want to preserve peace. This is the ticket of ours to peace. For Lithuania, it's not only military infrastructure.
11:27What I see right now and during my visit here, that's the broader security dialogue and our discussion on many things.
11:34That's the, you know, increased and widened economic cooperation that we have right now. That's the German investments in Lithuania in our defense industry.
11:43That's the cultural exchange. And we are planning the really intensive Lithuanian year in 27 in Germany.
11:51That is people-to-people contact. That's German language that is on the high demand in Lithuania to be learned.
11:58And this will bring our nations closer and closer. So I'm really optimistic and really excited looking forward into this new period of our cooperation.
12:08When Russia's war in Ukraine started, it was politicians and officials in Eastern Europe, including Lithuania, saying,
12:15we had told you so. We warned you against Russia. And they demanded a change of the minds of mindset in Western Europe, particularly in Germany.
12:26What's your take on that? Is there a different mindset right now with regard to dealing with Russia in Germany?
12:33There are changes, obviously. And then from the very beginning of the full-scale invasion, I had no doubts about the political will of Germany
12:43to carry the burden of the collective defense and of the future of the security of Europe. I saw it and I truly believe it till now.
12:54What concerns the very approaches and methods towards countries like Russia? I'm not sure whether we changed our calculation, what works, what not.
13:05I still see this naivety, what concerns the attempts to change the behavior that, you know, through cooperation we can have the difference and so forth and so on.
13:16We are still in the ignorant position and we are not following their plans and their intents. On the Russian side, the intent was very clearly stated to us at the end of 2021.
13:31They want NATO to be destroyed and dismantled. They want infrastructure to be sent back to the borders of 97.
13:38They want Americans out with all their capabilities, including nuclear capabilities from Europe. And they are working on this specific goal.
13:46That's not all about Ukraine. I'm not sure whether we still remember how it all started.
13:51And this approach that is false from the very beginning, that we are so, you know, big, attractive power that people will, you know, and especially regimes will change their behavior,
14:03is also very falsely applied in the case of China. I see the same parallels. Still people think that, okay, we will be engaged more with China,
14:13somehow we will prevent from China's strategies to absolutely dominate and destroy our industries. This is wrong. And we should learn from our mistakes.
14:23Minister, thank you very much.
Recommended
0:40
3:52
2:43
Be the first to comment