00:00particularly a rural perspective I guess. Councillor McJohn.
00:05Yeah thank you chair and thank you both for introducing the report.
00:09I had asked to speak today on this item only but then subsequently being a committee member I'm
00:15substituting anyway so yeah I mean I raise this as a question back in May
00:22regarding the loss of rural street lights and I asked for the cabinet member does he agree
00:27that it is time for this to be reviewed and in the minutes it does say that the cabinet member
00:34stated he'd be happy to request that the policy and pre-decision overview and scrutiny committee do
00:39review the criteria and the wider issues so that was good and accepted a little bit disappointing
00:45therefore that the report is only here to note today which I don't know is that the best way
00:51forward having asked and being committed to a full review of it but we'll see how that goes and I did
00:58stress at cabinet it's absolutely no reflection on on staff who are having to make the decisions
01:02based on the policy I appreciate and they've got a very very hard job to do they've got to look at
01:07it and make a decision and then have us as members challenge those decisions it's not an easy job I
01:12know so I mean absolutely no no criticism intended there at all it was purely because I felt having
01:19had many representations locally that the policy is skewed against rural areas and there's a discrimination
01:26if you like against people in those areas not having the same services the part night reduction
01:34has been generally accepted I mean that's that's gone through it turns off for most people obviously
01:38comments at the start but people don't really come to me much about that anymore that's not not the
01:45issue at all and also the switch to LED that's obviously saved a lot of money going to LED and
01:52that's to be welcomed and my question then would have been like some of these lights which come to
01:57the end of of life if they are making the policy why they couldn't just be put to LED because the cost
02:02saving from just having an LED there in itself must be quite a bit as opposed to a traditional type of
02:08streetlight but when I when I go on to the criteria then I mean it's number one it says the number of
02:16recorded nighttime personal injury accidents well that could possibly be low in rear areas because of
02:22the streetlights being there so by taking them away you don't know if there would be any accidents
02:27after that because I guess they wouldn't be recorded so I don't see how that can be a criteria really
02:35nor also the high vehicle of traffic or pedestrian news it's bound to be lower in rural areas but
02:41some are on circular walking routes used by many people pedestrians especially in villages
02:47it'll discourage people from some outdoor exercise early mornings evenings when they can't go out of
02:51their house and I do have people say to me that they even six seven o'clock in the evening now in the
02:56winter they're afraid to go outside their houses and that's not not saying crime has increased of course but
03:01people are that sort of uneasy they can't see to go out a lot of older people of course I mean
03:06what checks are actually done on a pedestrian usage of a route before those lights are diminished
03:12the levels of nighttime crime again possibly low because of lights being in place there is
03:18an upsurge in rural crime which was raised at ONS a few months ago and we did have a question off to
03:25the police to come to the partnership panel to review that so again it's the perception of crime a
03:34lot of the time as opposed to the actual crime and the safety people feel and the number of residents
03:41properties fronting onto the road or street again it's biased against rural areas you're not going to
03:46have the amount of properties going onto a street but you're going to have a lot of pedestrian usage
03:52especially when people as I said want to get out and walk a bit I've got a few case studies which
03:57I thought would be useful chair if you don't mind me just going through obviously anonymized but um
04:03one was I understand the council generally need to cut costs and therefore reduce the light in the
04:07county however I've recently spent two weeks staying with my elderly mother who was not who was most
04:12concerned about the current lack of lighting in the lane in general the lane is now desolate when dark
04:18and a very bleak environment for anyone using it dog walkers and runners regularly use lane and
04:23throughout my life this lady was in her 60s there have always been safety aspects having a light midway
04:29down a lane shining in both directions and I'm just for concept that is a single track lane with passing
04:35places it's a farm entrance you can see probably 100 meters either side of it so having a street plate
04:43there does quite quite a bit of illuminating very very useful and the course taking that away leaves that
04:49area in in darkness and I got a few like that on 60 mile an hour roads they're not 30 mile an hour
04:55back roads these are 60 mile an hour roads I'll go on to another one we were alarm to see the removal
05:03of a street light from the telegraph pole and it gives the date the light was strategically placed
05:08to light up a fast flowing water culvert which is below the telegraph pole and right beside the road
05:14to illuminate the end of the road for both pedestrians and vehicles that there are fast flowing streams
05:19at the lower level which are hidden when the tides are very high and that's an issue I've had on a few
05:24occasions as well where these lights are at the end of a road where the public path might carry on
05:30but they they illuminate to show when the tide is in and out and people mightn't be able to see that
05:36in dusk or early morning so there's a lot more to it in rural areas than just saying there's not many
05:42properties there's not many cars go past which is why I really wanted to have the the review of that and
05:49see if there are or if there is any scope to perhaps trial just the LED lights in place to see what savings
05:55they would they would bring then the other issue um it was mentioned that uh as part of the cost
06:00savings certain lights were identified to be cut off and members local members were informed I was
06:08informed and I challenged I think most of the ones in my area because I knew the the locations of them
06:14and the strategic importance of a light there but we also see lights then just taken out with any note
06:20without any notice to to the local member and I give one example of the storm last December
06:25when a tree came down and took the cable down um again it was a light on a on a road
06:31used by many many pedestrians and cyclists and that sort of thing and the light wasn't replaced and when
06:38I questioned it it was taken out under this policy because it didn't meet the criteria to remain
06:43well I hadn't sort of had any forewarning of that I didn't have a call to say look we're not going to
06:48replace that light so I'm fielding lots and lots of questions so it would be good if members were
06:55were kept up to date between the sort of budget setting on on any lights which are going out as
07:00well so I'll stop there chair I thank you for yeah when you challenged yeah the removal of the street
07:08leg were you successful or was it done anyway as part of the last ones no they've all remained off I have
07:16challenged previously and I actually remember meeting the cabinet member at the time Phil Baker
07:21at the location where two lights were deemed to be taken out and because of the area which had a very
07:27very high usage of pedestrians cyclists people with boats because it was on the river right at the end of
07:34the slipway the decision was made then to restore those two lights but that was probably seven eight years
07:41ago I can't I haven't looked at my records for that because that was pre the sort of latest round of
07:47lights being cut out but I was successful on that one another time there was an instance where a light
07:55was removed for damage and it was reinstated at request but again probably six or seven years ago
08:00um it's it's the cumulative effect of the the rest that have come in according according local issues
08:06thank you thank you for those comments mike um would you like to
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