- 19 hours ago
In this exclusive interview, former Indian High Commissioner Veena Sikri discusses the controversial death sentence verdict against Sheikh Hasina by Bangladesh's International Crimes Tribunal (ICT). She unpacks the political motivations behind the verdict and highlights the dangerous nexus between Pakistan and Jamaat-e-Islami.
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00:00I have with me former High Commissioner to Bangladesh, Veena Sikri.
00:11Ambassador, thank you so much for speaking with AsiaNet News.
00:15Yesterday, the death sentence verdict came for Sheikh Hasina by the International Criminal
00:19Tribunal.
00:20Now, we do have extradition treaty between both the countries, but there is an article
00:25which says on what all conditions we can deny it, if you can talk about it.
00:29Well, you know that, yes, you're right, we do have an extradition treaty between India
00:35and Bangladesh and every extradition treaty has its own, you know, inner built-up rules
00:41and regulations.
00:43The question of denying doesn't come at all at this point because that is why our government
00:50has said that we are going to talk to all stakeholders because actually there is no extradition request.
00:56You know, last year in December, the government of Bangladesh sent one liner, okay, please
01:01send Sheikh Hasina back to Bangladesh.
01:05Even at that time, I said this is not an extradition request because when there is an extradition
01:09request, it has to be accompanied by all the court case.
01:13On what basis are you asking for an extradition?
01:16You are saying she is going to be convicted.
01:18In December 24, she was not convicted, right?
01:20So, there were no questions, there was no court case, there was no paperwork, nothing.
01:24Now, yesterday when the Bangladesh Foreign Office says that she must come back and then
01:30some other advisor in the UNIS regime said, oh, if she doesn't come back, the enmity between
01:38India and Bangladesh will go up, etc.
01:39You know, all this is completely irrelevant because what they have to first send together,
01:45they have to complete the extradition request and to complete it, they have to send all
01:49the paperwork, the court case, what is the verdict, on what basis was the verdict reached,
01:54what was the evidence given in the verdict and so on.
01:57All this has to be sent actually by the Bangladesh government formally to the Indian government
02:03and then the Indian government examines it.
02:05In many cases, actually, there could be even another court case in India, you know, where
02:11for example, Shikazina's lawyers might file a court case in India, while India, Indian
02:16government is considering the extradition request, then Bangladesh government can also
02:21send their lawyers.
02:22So, there can be another hearing.
02:24I've seen this very often that when, since I've handled some extradition requests at various
02:29points where I was posted, that when this extradition request is received by the foreign
02:34government, they then examine it themselves and very often it involves a court case in
02:39that country.
02:40When that is over, then depending on the decision in the court case, then you reply to the request.
02:46So, that government's response was very correct and very appropriate, saying that we are going
02:50to talk to all stakeholders, we have received this whatever message, but I mean, they have
02:55not gone into all the details to say that we are waiting for more paperwork, etc.
02:59That will happen in the normal course.
03:00If it doesn't happen, there is no formal extradition request.
03:04So, basically, this is not something we'll see immediately happening, but it will take
03:08a couple of months or probably years to get this done.
03:13Well, I know that many extradition requests take years, you're quite right, and not only
03:18years, then there is a court case in that country, then that goes one way or the other,
03:22then there is an appeal process.
03:24So, all that, it can take years, you're quite right.
03:26But what basically I'm saying is that the very first step has not been completed, where
03:31you cannot send an extradition request as a one-liner and say, okay, now you have to
03:36send her back, otherwise there will be more enmity.
03:38I mean, this is not serious at all.
03:39I mean, this is like very, very immature to talk like that because, and that's why our
03:44government's response is very well considered, very sober, very calm, not overreacting at
03:50all, but the thing is, we are going to talk to all the stakeholders, so certainly when
03:53the Bangladesh government or their high commissioner here or whoever that they designate will talk
03:58to our government, they will be told, yes, you have to send all the paperwork, you know,
04:01you have to send the reasons why she's been, the formal paperwork from the court, from the
04:06ICT.
04:08Ambassador, yesterday when Sheikh Hasina also put out a statement, she talked about how ICT
04:14is politically motivated and she said that it needs to be looked in by ICC.
04:18Is there any probability that this case can be taken up by International Criminal Court?
04:23Well, I think the first point to know is that the ICT, the Bangladesh International Crime
04:28has no authority at all to try Sheikh Hasina.
04:33Yes.
04:33Absolutely none.
04:34So actually this is why Sheikh Hasina described it as a rigged case and politically motivated
04:39and biased and so on.
04:41The ICT in Bangladesh was created first under a Parliament Act in 1973.
04:48International Crime Tribunal, when Sheikh Mujib was the Prime Minister.
04:52And then later on, in 2009, when Sheikh Hasina got elected for the second time, then she
04:59expanded or brought it up to date.
05:01And in 2010, for the first time, the ICT started functioning.
05:06And in all these years, 15 years, 14 years while Sheikh Hasina was Prime Minister, till
05:13last year, the ICT was functioning.
05:15They tried.
05:16The ICT's only mandate is to try those people who have committed war crimes during the 1971
05:22Liberation War.
05:24That's all.
05:25There is no further mandate for the ICT than this.
05:27So, the ICT was doing its work.
05:30They tried many people who were accused of war crimes.
05:33They came to decision.
05:34They took the judgment was issued.
05:36The sentences were executed.
05:39All that was going on.
05:40Now, there is no authority for this UNIS regime to extend the mandate or to change the mandate
05:47of the ICT to include trying a former Prime Minister, etc.
05:51They say we have changed it, but there is no parliamentary effort.
05:54There was no parliament.
05:55How could they have changed it?
05:56This ICT was created under an Act of Parliament in 1973.
06:01So, there was no parliament in 2024 for them to change it or to expand.
06:05So, that is what is the problem with the UNIS regime that they are taking all these decisions
06:09which they are not authorized to take.
06:11It's an unelected, unconstitutional government.
06:14They have been in existence for 15 months when all that they were supposed to do was
06:18to hold election within the first three months.
06:20They have got members as advisors who are members of political parties like the Hizbutari,
06:25the Islami Andolan, Bangladesh.
06:26So, you know, everybody recognizes that this is an unconstitutional government, you know.
06:32And for them to say that the ICT is a valid port for trial of Sheikh Hasina, it makes no sense.
06:41I'll give you one small example.
06:43Yeah.
06:43So, you know that when one of the first things that Mohammed Yunus did when he became
06:51was, you know, this mobocracy.
06:55All the mobs going and surrounding various judges, the Supreme Court Chief Justice, and
07:00forcing them to resign.
07:01Some were forced to resign by this mobocracy, the mob action, mob violence, and the others
07:06were forced to resign by attacks on their home.
07:09So, by forcing all the previous appointed judges by the parliamentarily elected government of
07:16Sheikh Hasina, he then put his own judges in their place.
07:18Even in the ICT and in the Supreme Court and High Court of Bangladesh, everybody was changed.
07:24You know, you may describe it as weaponizing the judiciary, you know.
07:27I mean, it was really a very unwarranted, uncalled for, and unconstitutional methodology of changing
07:34the judges.
07:35Even the ICT judges and so on were changed.
07:37To give you one example, there was this lawyer, Mohammed Tadjul Islam, who was the person when
07:44the ICT was functioning and the war criminals of 1971 were being tried.
07:48Most of them, as you know, were Jamaat-e-Islami members.
07:51Then this lawyer, Mohammed Tadjul Islam, was the principal defendant for the Jamaat-e-Islami.
07:56And he was defecting them in the court of law.
07:59Now, the same lawyer has been made the chief prosecutor in the ICT.
08:04So, you know, it just shows that this is how political the whole system has been rigged.
08:10And that is why Sheikh Hasina made that statement.
08:13Ambassador, you said that this interim government is not authorized, first of all, to conduct
08:17this.
08:18But, at the same time, do you think that if next year the elections happen, the government
08:24at that time will be able to take this case to International Criminal Court?
08:28So, that's a good question.
08:31Now, in the meanwhile, while Sheikh Hasina has made that strong statement yesterday, and
08:36I've given you all the reasons why the ICT is not really eligible or constitutionally mandated
08:44to try Sheikh Hasina.
08:45At the same time, Sheikh Hasina has herself said that I am prepared to answer any questions
08:50and face any trial, provided it is fair and inclusive.
08:56And she has mentioned the ICC, International Crime, International Criminal Court at The Hague.
09:05And she has mentioned that because already a law company from the UK, Doughty Street Chambers,
09:12has actually filed what they call a notice to the prosecution of the ICC at The Hague,
09:19talking about what is being inflicted on the Awami League and how they are being maligned
09:24and unfairly treated and what has happened to the Awami League members.
09:29Close to 400 of them have been killed.
09:30And all this, all these problems that actually the ICT is not looking at.
09:37You know, even if you wanted, that you wanted to say that the ICT is looking at what Sheikh
09:43Hasina did, they have said the ICT should look only at what happened between 14 July and
09:495th of August.
09:49They are not looking at, beyond that, what was the violence unleashed on the minorities in Bangladesh,
09:55violence unleashed on the Awami League in Bangladesh, violence unleashed on the media in Bangladesh.
10:00All that is not being looked at at all.
10:03And on the contrary, instead of not looking at it, the U.S. regime has indemnified their own people
10:09against any charges for whatever they may have done.
10:13So this is a completely one-sided situation.
10:16All this has been brought to the notice of the ICT and at The Hague.
10:19And I know also that in addition to what this UK legal company has done,
10:24there are additional people from Bangladesh, lawyers, international lawyers and groups
10:30who have filed cases in the ICT.
10:32At least four or five of such cases have been filed in the ICT at The Hague,
10:35saying that, you know, this is the attack on the Awami League, the attack on the media,
10:40the attack on the religious minorities, and how there is no questioning about this,
10:46no accountability for any of this.
10:48All this is already before the ICT and The Hague.
10:51And so it could be taken up by them at any time.
10:55Yeah.
10:55Ambassador, you mentioned 1971 war.
10:58At that time, Jamaat and Pakistan had close ties.
11:01It continues to have that.
11:02But do you think that now there is, again, a resurgence and more amplification of radicalization,
11:08Islamist, jihadist ideology in Bangladesh, in the current state government?
11:14Let us first see how this regime change operation happened.
11:18I think Mohammed himself said that it was a meticulously designed operation.
11:23It was not spontaneous.
11:24So this question of spontaneous student uprising is completely incorrect.
11:28That's not there at all.
11:29They were hardly students.
11:30It is true that at one point, you know, when that, this so-called, you know, that case
11:35for the quota reform, Sheikh Hasina had already abolished the quotas.
11:39But then somebody got here in June or May or June, went to the High Court and said,
11:44no, no, why are the quotas being abolished?
11:45You want to reinstate them.
11:46So the High Court reinstated the quotas.
11:48And then that is when all this demonstration started.
11:51But there was a very peaceful demonstration.
11:53It's only in the last two weeks that it became violent.
11:56And we saw that the Jamaat-e-Islami, the Islami-Shakta-Shibid, they had their own weaponry.
12:01Now, this whole regime change operation was planned by external powers, but through Pakistan.
12:08So Pakistan was the conduit.
12:11And Pakistan was working with the Jamaat-e-Islami.
12:13So Pakistan's objective is to bring the Jamaat-e-Islami to power.
12:17And they have always, it's not just now that last year they worked with the Jamaat-e-Islami.
12:22They have been working with the Jamaat-e-Islami during the liberation war, before the liberation war,
12:26and after the liberation war.
12:27So that has always been their conduit.
12:29And they seem to have promised the Jamaat-e-Islami that they are going to come to power.
12:35So even the BNP, which is the other major party, other than the BNP League,
12:39the other major party is the Bangladesh Nationalist Party,
12:42they have actually been sidelined by the Jamaat-e-Islami.
12:46Although they were in political alliance during the time when I was High Commissioner in Bangladesh
12:50and I was the Prime Minister, they were in a political alliance.
12:55But now the Jamaat-e-Islami wants a purely Islamist government.
12:58They have tweeted about Sharia law.
13:00Some members who were advisors and members of Hidro Tari that said,
13:03we want a caliphate and we will, even if we have to fight a civil war, we want a caliphate.
13:08Later this tweet was deleted, but the intentions are very clear.
13:10So I think that Pakistan is working directly with the Jamaat-e-Islami
13:16and they are trying to embed themselves in every part of Bangladesh's military and non-military activity.
13:24They are trying to create a situation of pre-1971.
13:27Yeah, even the educational institutions are also being hijacked by Hizb ut-Tahrir.
13:31The education industry, Hizb ut-Tahrir is an organization that always works with the educated group.
13:38They don't go for the madrasas and so on, but they work with people who are educated.
13:42So they like to influence schools and colleges and universities and so on.
13:46And to give you one example of how the Jamaat-e-Islami is like,
13:58Yeah, the Islamization.
13:59Two examples I would like to give.
14:01And one is that of course, even the Jaisi Muhammad and the Rajkari Taiba have themselves said
14:06that they are sending their people to Bangladesh and they are, you know, wanting to get more influence in Bangladesh.
14:12So as far as radicalization is concerned, the effort is fully on, you know, that's one.
14:18And secondly, I would like to say that, you know, at one point, some months ago,
14:22Muhammad Yunus was trying to show his very secular side of his, you know, administration.
14:29And he took a decision and announced it saying that I'm going to put music teachers and dance teachers
14:36in every college and school and university.
14:38And I'm going to put PT teachers, you know, physical training, PT teachers also.
14:42Now, this decision of his was staunchly opposed by the Jamaat-e-Islami.
14:46And we know that Jamaat-e-Islami has tremendous influence on Muhammad Yunus and they control his every move.
14:51So under the influence of Jamaat-e-Islami, Muhammad Yunus announced last week,
14:56just last week on the 13th of November, that he is withdrawing his earlier decision.
15:01And instead of these kind of teachers, they're going to have religious teachers.
15:04Now, I must tell you that on the 13th of November, the colleges and universities erupted.
15:09The students came out on the streets and they were in the, out of the classroom and said,
15:13no, we will not accept this religious teacher.
15:16We want culture.
15:17We want music teachers, singing teachers, PT teachers.
15:21You know, religion is a part of our culture, but culture is very important.
15:25Culture is what we are.
15:26This is our identity.
15:27Our identity is our culture.
15:29So this just shows that the students are certainly not with the Jamaat-e-Islami or with Muhammad Yunus.
15:35They are still very careful and attach high value to the values of the liberation war,
15:44to pluralism, secularism, democracy, national.
15:48They want all of that.
15:49So this is a very example which came out just last week of the students still wanting democratic and secular Bangladesh.
15:57Yunus has been making several statements which are anti-India.
16:02For example, earlier he made a statement how the seven states of India are landlocked
16:07and Bangladesh is the only route to the ocean.
16:10Talk to me about the national security of India.
16:13How do you perceive it?
16:15Because Bangladesh is increasingly becoming pro-Pakistan, pro-China.
16:18I think definitely in one line it is an important security threat for India.
16:25Let me tell you very clearly that actually when I was there as High Commissioner,
16:31when Khalid Adia was Prime Minister, when Jamaat-e-Islami was a member of the government,
16:35our biggest problem with Bangladesh was this kind of security threat.
16:40For example, they were encouraging the activities of the Indian insurgent groups of Northeast India.
16:44They were encouraging them to come to Bangladesh to set up their camps there, to train their people there.
16:49They were openly supporting them.
16:51There was absolutely no doubt about that.
16:53And when we took this up with them, they would say in ignorance,
16:56oh, we don't know, we're not doing it, you know, you are just repeating this again and again,
17:00it's not true, etc., etc.
17:01And again and again we showed to them, we even got, you know, indications or information about where a camp was.
17:09And when we told them about it, they would have the camp moved, you know,
17:12send the people away from that to another village.
17:15And then, no, no, there's nothing.
17:16When Shekha Sina came to power in 2009,
17:21she decided that she is going to respect India's security red lines.
17:25And she said that there is no interest for Bangladesh, for the people of Bangladesh,
17:30no benefit for the people of Bangladesh to support anti-Indian activity from Bangladesh soil.
17:35So she decided that will not happen.
17:37She stopped all support for the insurgent groups.
17:40And we saw for 15 years, there was complete peace in the Northeast.
17:44You know, the emergency dropped completely.
17:47Anud Chetia was in jail.
17:49Pareshbara was hiding in China.
17:50And all this.
17:51And for 15 years, Northeast India could focus on development and growth.
17:55And they did that.
17:56They had almost forgotten what it's like to have insurgent groups.
17:59But now, ever since this government has come to power, the Yunus regime,
18:04although our government on the first day said that we are prepared to continue the cooperation
18:09between India and Bangladesh that had been established over the last 15 years,
18:14we want to continue all the projects, we want to continue all the trade and investment.
18:17But there was never a positive response from the Bangladesh interim regime.
18:23They started making more and more, you know, unwarranted statements, anti-Indian statements.
18:29You must refer yourself to what Mohammed Yunus said in China, to the Chinese businessmen,
18:34saying, oh, yes, come to Bangladesh.
18:35We are the only ones who have access to the Northeast.
18:37Now, all this shows, all this was really, and what is going on is really an invitation
18:44to India's Northeast insurgent groups to come back to Bangladesh and reestablish their activities there.
18:50Now, they are really trying to, in any and every way, harm the security interests of India.
18:58The radicalization is in full steam.
19:00The Pakistan army is trying to embed themselves with the Bangladesh army.
19:04They are sending their brigadiers to be posted with various divisions.
19:08You know, we know that one of the things that were announced when Mohammed Yunus went to China
19:14was about developing or modernizing the Lal Muni Raat,
19:17which is the Second World War Air Force base that the British had built in the north of Bangladesh,
19:22very close to Meghalaya and Assam.
19:25And they want to modernize it, 700 acres of land, places for stationing, 70 aircraft, all that.
19:34And, of course, there are great security concerns to India.
19:38And India has been talking to them about it, has been telling them about it.
19:41But so far, there has not been a positive response.
19:44I do understand that the National Security Advisor of Bangladesh, Dr. Khalil Raman,
19:48is going to be in India very soon.
19:51Perhaps this will certainly be discussed at that time.
19:54And whether there is a response from the National Security Advisor, let us see.
19:59The stance that India has currently, with the current interim government led by Yunus,
20:03it will continue to have that irrespective of the fact whosoever comes in power,
20:07whether it's BNP or Jamaat.
20:09We'll see the continued policy where we oppose the radicalization,
20:12where we oppose the attacks on minority,
20:14but we'll continue the trade and other projects that we have together.
20:18No, you see, I must tell you that a lot of projects have been shut down.
20:22There is, you know, they've been slowed down and many projects are not being implemented.
20:26Trade is going on.
20:27There are many items that Bangladesh needs for their, you know, let's say,
20:33very subsistence, even your rice and fresh vegetables and so on.
20:39Onions, for example, you know.
20:40Even former Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina used to say,
20:45you know, you must tell me when you're going to ban your Indian export,
20:49otherwise we're all crying with tears because of Indian not coming.
20:52So, you know, all this is there.
20:54But, so that kind of trade is going on.
20:56But many factories have shut down.
20:57Because many goods that were being imported from India for use by the Bangladesh government exporters,
21:04and value added in Bangladesh for their exports,
21:06you know, Mohamed Yunus is not interested.
21:09He says, buy it from Brazil, buy it from Pakistan, buy it from USA.
21:12More expensive.
21:14Those take much longer time to arrive.
21:16So, we do know that as a result, many factories have been shut down.
21:20Employment is very high.
21:22Unemployment has increased enormously.
21:24Prices are very high.
21:25Inflation is very high.
21:26And this is a big problem within Bangladesh.
21:28Their rate of growth has halved.
21:30And we are prepared, India is prepared to continue the trade and economic cooperation that was there earlier.
21:37But if Bangladesh is going to take, you know, measures to stop it,
21:40then we will take our own retaliatory measures that we have taken.
21:43So, there is definitely an impact.
21:46But the one thing that we have said above all of this is that
21:50there must be free, fair, inclusive, and credible elections in Bangladesh.
21:57You know, Yunus' effort to ban the activities of the Abhami League
22:01and to prevent the Abhami League from participating in the election,
22:06this is not viable at all.
22:07We have opposed it strongly.
22:08In fact, Mohamed Yunus himself, when he gave an interview in New York
22:11about a month or so ago when he was there for the UNGA,
22:14somebody asked him, why have we banned the Abhami League?
22:17He said, oh, I haven't banned the Abhami League.
22:19I have only banned activities of the Abhami League.
22:21So, then when he was asked, why do they take part in the election?
22:23Oh, that's for the election commission to decide.
22:25But they have already deregistered the party?
22:29No, no.
22:30They have taken the symbol of the party off the website of the election commission
22:37indicating that they will not accept any candidates, etc. from the Abhami League.
22:45But the Abhami League has not been banned.
22:47So, it is a simple executive decision for them to reinstate the Abhami League
22:53to remove the ban on its activities and allow them to take part in the election.
22:56Even the Jadiyo Party, the party started by President of Yafshad,
22:59even that is not being called for any of the meetings.
23:01Even they are being very much mistreated.
23:03So, it's very clear that Jamaat-e-Islami, in their effort to come back to power,
23:08is trying to remove all the parties which could be a threat.
23:12But I think the events of the last few days and even the response yesterday in Dhaka
23:18and throughout Bangladesh to the bandh, the lockdown that was called by Prime Minister
23:23Shekhar Sithina, it was very successful.
23:26And not only in Dhaka, she called for the bandh in Dhaka.
23:28But the lockdown took place all across Bangladesh.
23:30Every school was closed, colleges were closed.
23:32So, it shows that the support for the Abhami League is still there.
23:36Their support base may even have grown.
23:38It certainly has not reduced.
23:40So, I think we are very clear and I am sure that in any discussions,
23:44whether it is with the National Security Advisor or others,
23:48our view is going to be that the elections must be free, fair, inclusive and credible.
23:54There is no question of banning a major party like the Abhami League.
23:57And if these elections are free, fair, inclusive and credible,
24:01India is prepared to deal with any government which comes to power.
24:04And it may be PNP, it may be Abhami League, it may be Jamaat-e-Islami,
24:09it may be a coalition.
24:10We are prepared to deal with them because that group party or group of parties
24:15will represent the will of the people of Bangladesh.
24:18And as such, we are prepared to deal with them and to work out cooperation with them.
24:22But certainly, we are very concerned and will oppose any kind of radicalization move within Bangladesh,
24:30any move to push radicals into India.
24:33You know, the Jamaat-e-Islami deputy Ameer, the Naib Ameer of the Jamaat-e-Islami
24:39was in New York again at the same time as Muhammad Yunus.
24:42He went there as part of his delegation.
24:44And he made this fiery speech.
24:45Oh, I have five million youth waiting here.
24:48I am going to send them into India.
24:49We are going to do this.
24:50We are going to...
24:50He spoke about greater Papala Desh.
24:52It's the other thing that, you know, they are all speaking about.
24:54So, all this is completely unacceptable.
24:55But India is being very patient.
24:58We are exercising what may be described as strategic restraint.
25:02And we are not...
25:04We are prepared to talk to them at all points.
25:06And we certainly hope that the Obama League, Jatio Party,
25:09all registered parties will be allowed to take part in the elections.
25:13Thank you, Ambassador, for talking to Asianit News and giving your perspective.
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