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00:00The Arrest is the pivotal moment in any investigation.
00:13If you get it wrong, then it's game over.
00:22Police officer with a taser!
00:24Taser, taser, taser!
00:30Taser, taser, taser!
00:44Everything they're doing is on body-worn video.
00:46Police!
00:48Everything they're doing would be examined by defence lawyers.
00:54They can't make any mistakes.
00:56Fire, but how did you be wrong?
01:26A nine-year-old girl, who we can name today as Olivia Pratt-Corbell, has died following the shooting last night.
01:40At 10pm last night, our officers were called to Olivia's home, and when we arrived, we found three people who had been injured, including Olivia and her mum.
01:54It is believed that one of the injured parties, a 35-year-old man was being chased by a man armed with a gun, who was firing at him.
02:04The man being chased forced his way into Olivia's house, and the offender ran in after him, firing a number of shots.
02:13Sadly, Olivia was fatally wounded when the gunman fired at the man who was trying to get into the house.
02:21And her mum also suffered a gunshot to her wrist.
02:25A country in shock, and a ruthless killer on the loose.
02:42Nearly two weeks on from Olivia's shooting, police prepare to arrest the man who pulled the trigger.
02:49The risk would have been extremely high at this stage, because once we go to the flat, we don't know how he's going to react.
03:00We know he's the gunman, so he could have the firearms in that flat, and there's only one way in.
03:09So there would have been an awful lot of trepidation.
03:12There would have been an awful lot of background work gone in.
03:16But at the end of the day, somebody's got a knock on that door, and tell him he's been arrested on suspicion of the murder of Olivia Pratt-Corbell.
03:29Our police! Come to the front door! With nothing in your hands!
03:34Come on, Dad! Show him on! Show him on!
03:37Show him on!
03:38Yeah, Dad! Don't you learn to be hurting her!
03:39My hands are in the air.
03:41What's your leg, brother?
03:42I've got nothing on me.
03:43The moment those officers are confronted by that male, it's essential that one, they confirm very clearly who they are, that there's no confusion about who they are, that they're armed officers, and that it's important that at that moment they gain immediate control.
04:00I've got nothing on me.
04:01Put your hands behind you, Dad.
04:02OK, there you go. Look at that.
04:03See where you are.
04:04We'll drop you off your phone.
04:06They have to be very, very clear in their demands to ensure that he hasn't got time to think, he hasn't got time to return inside of that property.
04:13Put your hands behind you, Dad.
04:15OK, there you go. Look at that.
04:17See where you are. We'll drop you off your phone. Do you understand what they're saying to you?
04:21Yes, sir.
04:22No, it's not.
04:24This here is an example of one of the weapons seen carried by the officers. This is a SIG MCX.
04:31What have we done? What have we done?
04:34Tell you now.
04:35Come on.
04:36It can fire in a semi-automatic and an automatic state, so a magazine of 30 rounds can be fired off very, very quickly.
04:44In fact, a weapon like this, if it was in fully automatic, could fire upwards of 800 to 900 rounds a minute.
04:51I've got nothing on me. Just put my pants down, you'll see. There's nothing here. It's all I'm messing around.
04:57Anyone that is familiar with firearms, upon looking at a weapon like this, would understand that they are highly powerful, they're highly accurate, and, of course, ultimately, they're highly lethal.
05:10I'm awfully serious. I am resistant one little bit. I just want to know what I've done. That's all. All I want to know is what I'm arrested for.
05:19Tell me what I'm arrested for.
05:22All day, flowers have been arriving in Olivia's street. Police say her family had no connection whatsoever to the gunman or to the man who forced his way into their home.
05:47The murder of Olivia Pratt Corbell sparked one of the biggest and most urgent manhunts in UK history.
05:54But, in order to trace her ruthless killer, detectives first had to penetrate a community living in fear.
06:02For years, we'd had this no-grass culture in areas across Liverpool, whereby a lot of the local community were very, very scared of going to the police.
06:17They were afraid of reprisals.
06:21Detectives believe the shooting was the result of a gangland feud, and the local media have urged potential witnesses to break the so-called wall of silence.
06:31However, when a nine-year-old girl is shot in this way, people's opinions did begin to change. The tide did seem to turn.
06:43People were saying that enough is enough.
06:56Shortly after the murder, police recovered CCTV, showing exactly what happened in the build-up.
07:02Just before 10pm, shots ring out on a quiet residential street.
07:14Seconds later, a hooded man fires at another from close range.
07:19His Glock pistol then apparently jams.
07:23But he carries on pursuing his target, who runs towards Olivia's house for safety.
07:28Now on the front path, he produces a second gun.
07:33A .3 calibre revolver.
07:36The fact that the gunman was in possession of two weapons leads us to suspect that he has experience in firearms.
07:45It also clearly shows that he was determined, but more so determined to actually make sure the job was done.
07:52Olivia's mum, Cheryl, heard the noise of the gunshots outside.
07:58She went to the door and opened the door to see what was going on in the street.
08:02Little Olivia runs downstairs, having heard the same noise, and says,
08:07Mum, I'm scared.
08:09They were her last words before the shot came into the house,
08:14hit her mum, and then hit Olivia in the chest.
08:20Because of CCTV, we know there's effectively another victim out there
08:26who has been shot and therefore injured.
08:31The likelihood is, obviously, if somebody's been shot,
08:33they're going to have to get urgent medical treatment.
08:36So it would have been a routine thing to visit all the A&Es in the immediate area
08:45as to try and track down who this victim has been.
08:52Police soon got their answer.
08:55At a hospital four miles away, CCTV captured a man being carried in with gunshot wounds.
09:06He was Joseph Knee, a 35-year-old serial offender
09:10who'd served prison terms for drug offences and burglary.
09:14Despite the attempt on his life, he kept to the unwritten criminal's code,
09:19refusing to name the man who'd fired the gun.
09:22I'm going to show you some footage in a moment of a man that murdered Olivia.
09:37As the gunman remained on the run, detectives released new images of him,
09:41surveying the street before the shooting.
09:44and fleeing afterwards.
09:47They also brought in image analysts to build a clearer picture.
09:51Here we can see the real progress we made in the inquiry.
09:57So we can see he's got distinctive white trainers.
10:02Also the distinctive mark on his trozos, some kind of logo.
10:07By his movements, he's athletic, so he's young.
10:10And by seeing him run by fixed objects, maybe a wall or a bus shelter,
10:15which can be measured, then we can calculate that his height is about five foot seven.
10:20So we've got a build, we've got a height, we've got distinctive clothing.
10:27But the gunman is wearing a balaclava, so we haven't got a face.
10:31And the police have yet to still find a name so they can make an arrest.
10:36Everyone that she met, they all fell in love with her.
10:54She left a mark on everyone that she met.
10:58With the hunt becoming ever more desperate,
11:03police turned to Olivia's mother,
11:07still recovering from her own injuries to make a public appeal.
11:12She may well have only been nine,
11:15but she packed a lot in them nine years.
11:19To see that appeal and to see the pain and heartache and horror etched into her face,
11:30you can't help but be affected by it.
11:36She'd hurt your ears because she'd never, never stop talking.
11:45And that's what I miss the most.
11:49Because I can't hear her talk.
11:51She's so upset and yet you can sense, really sense this deep anger inside her.
12:04What happened and also the fact that maybe nobody is coming forward
12:09to help the police with information at this point.
12:12And at the end of that appeal, she directly addresses the killer.
12:17You know you've done wrong, so you need to own up.
12:23Like I've taught my kids.
12:26You do something wrong, you own up to it.
12:31I'm going to go and get away.
12:32I'm going to go and get away.
12:41You need to go and get away as a police extent.
12:44I don't know this.
12:45You have to go straight, I don't know this.
12:47I don't know this.
12:48I don't know this.
12:49I'm going to go straight, I'm going to go straight.
12:50As the police hoped, Cheryl Corbell's appeal prompted a key witness to come forward.
13:00A woman who'd had a previous relationship with a local criminal said he'd visited her house after the shooting, highly agitated and asking for a change of clothing.
13:12She named him as Thomas Cashman, 34 years old and with rumoured links to two other shootings.
13:20Cashman was a notorious figure in the Dovecot area. He was a known drug dealer. He ended up to £5,000 a week dealing cannabis.
13:30He lived in a £450,000 house with his girlfriend and two children.
13:36He had a reputation for violence and he was undoubtedly someone to be feared.
13:43Although Cashman lived in Liverpool, he left the city after the shooting, moving to an apartment on the other side of the River Mersey.
13:59But arresting him here posed stiff challenges for the police.
14:06Officers are dealing with the suspect in a very close environment in a flat within a corridor space.
14:13Very rarely is there ever a place in a corridor for an officer to take cover, so they're very open.
14:18And of course, modern day buildings, the walls are relatively thin.
14:24And if a firearm is discharged in a corridor space, it's very easy to imagine that a bullet can easily penetrate through one of those walls.
14:32So on the approach, they would be concerned by what state is the individual in? Are they armed? Are they aware of their presence? Are they willing to fire their gun from inside blindly through the wall?
14:47There's so much for those officers to be thinking about. And that's just prior to the arrest, before the doors even knocked.
14:53On place! On place!
14:55Dad!
14:56Show us your hands! Show us your hands! Get your hands for hurting us!
15:00Do you understand what I say to you?
15:02No, come on.
15:04So you can already hear at this point, the verbal domination, them shouting at him on the ground.
15:10Show us your hands! Show us your hands! Get your hands for hurting us!
15:13They want to be able to see his hands. They want to make sure that he's not in possession of any firearms.
15:18Put your hands behind your head.
15:19OK, there you go.
15:20He needs to know exactly what they are telling him to do.
15:24And it's those very brief seconds, it's those moments where you are in a position of dominance,
15:29that's the moment that they need to gain control and keep him safely on the floor.
15:34If they continue that for much longer, he has the chance to regain his thoughts, and there he poses a further risk.
15:41If you see where you are, it means exactly what you've told. Do you understand what I'm saying to you?
15:45No, sir.
15:46No, sir.
15:47Come here, I'm going to swallow your back.
15:49Phew!
15:52So you notice his hands are now in handcuffs. He is no longer an immediate threat, certainly from a firearms perspective.
15:58You piece of a knife.
16:00But already now, in the brief seconds that this has taken, he's regained some confidence.
16:05He's getting a bit more aggressive and defiant, demanding to know what he's done.
16:14What have we done?
16:16He's now verbally shouting, he's loud.
16:19What have we done?
16:20Go on.
16:21Put your knees up to your chest.
16:23Put your knees up to your chest.
16:24Sit on your arse.
16:26Stand up.
16:27Stand up.
16:28Sometimes you may hear the officers talking to him in a way that may seem a little bit short in the words that they're using.
16:35What's really important this time is those officers are talking to him in a language that he understands.
16:39Put your knees up to your chest. Sit on your arse.
16:42That sometimes might mean they swear.
16:44It might mean that they're loud.
16:45It might mean they're aggressive.
16:47But it's what gets results.
16:49Tell me what I'm arrested for.
16:51I know, Loki.
16:53You're under arrest for a suspicion of murder.
16:55And a suspicion of attempt murder.
16:57Twice.
16:58You do not have to say anything.
17:00What are you doing?
17:01You don't mention my question.
17:03Something which you may later line across.
17:05Anything you do seem to be given in evidence.
17:07I haven't committed no offence what yous are talking about.
17:10Guys, lift them up a little minute.
17:12None.
17:13None whatsoever.
17:14It's clear at this point he's not intimidated by this process at all.
17:17He's given back now a bit to the officers.
17:20You fucking mad, hon.
17:22He's a defiant.
17:23I ain't resisting.
17:25Is what?
17:27I'm not resisting.
17:28One little bit.
17:29I'm calm.
17:30I'm calm.
17:31It's usually I don't seem a little bit too calm.
17:34It would suggest to me he's somebody who has had a lot of experience being dealt with by the police.
17:39I haven't committed no offence what yous are talking about.
17:42All right.
17:43Lift them up a little minute.
17:44None.
17:45None whatsoever.
17:46None whatsoever.
17:47None whatsoever.
17:53None whatsoever.
17:54None whatsoever.
17:55None whatsoever.
17:56None whatsoever.
17:58None whatsoever.
17:59None whatsoever.
18:00None whatsoever whatsoever.
18:01None whatsoever whatsoever.
18:02None whatsoever whatsoever whatsoever.
18:06When he was interviewed, Cashman was pretty hostile to the investigators.
18:20His attitude was very much denial, defiant,
18:26which didn't surprise me at all, because it's a bravado.
18:31It's an image he's got to present at this particular time.
18:36The rest of the team, oh, and no comments.
18:38But I'm just stating clear that I have got no involvement
18:41in any of the crimes that he used to put on forward to me.
18:46What would have been the situation if he'd have broke down in floods of tears?
18:50He would basically be showing remorse,
18:55showing evidence of guilt, and he couldn't do that.
18:58I would like to know where you were on Monday, the 22nd of August.
19:03No comments.
19:04Are you responsible for the murder of Olivia Pratt-Cobal?
19:08No comments.
19:09With no confession or forensic links, police had to release Cashman on bail.
19:27But during his time back on the streets, they gathered crucial new evidence.
19:32Among the most damning was a fresh analysis from the expert imaging team.
19:38The white flashes on the trousers, there's something there.
19:42And this really showed up as fluorescent under the street lamps.
19:47In footage captured during and immediately after the shooting,
19:51they'd noticed a distinct white L logo on the gunman's tracksuit bottoms.
19:56Now, police were able to provide them with new CCTV images of their suspect,
20:03recorded two days after the murder.
20:05Here we see Cashman entering a lift in an apartment block.
20:11Straight away, you can see that he fits the build and height descriptions
20:15that have been given previously from the earlier footage.
20:19But this is very high quality CCTV, HD quality.
20:23And looking at his clothes, he's obviously a man who likes logos.
20:27And look at the distinctive logo on his tracksuit bottoms
20:30and look at what the gunman was seen to be wearing at the time of the shooting.
20:40Following this new evidence and the discovery of gunshot residue on his clothing,
20:45police arrested Cashman a second time,
20:48charging him with murder, attempted murder and wounding with intent.
21:00The trial got underway amid the tightest of security,
21:09an armed escort for a man with known gangland links.
21:14It says a lot, I guess, about Thomas Cashman
21:16that he didn't show any remorse even during the trial.
21:21He maintained his innocence,
21:23implying this was all a case of mistaken identity.
21:27And it's quite chilling that he never appeared to take any responsibility.
21:30Whatsoever.
21:33Following three weeks of evidence,
21:35the jury found Cashman guilty of all charges.
21:39But after the verdicts,
21:41he refused to come up to the dock to hear his sentence
21:44or to look his victim's relatives in the eye.
21:51I think it was the last act of defiance
21:54from Thomas Cashman in relation to this case.
22:00But I think to be denied the opportunity
22:09where the perpetrator doesn't face the remarks from the judge,
22:16doesn't come face to face with the victim's family,
22:19must be extremely, extremely frustrating for the family
22:25who are looking for some form of justice and, of course, closure.
22:30In Cashman's absence, the judge jailed him for life
22:38with a minimum of 42 years.
22:41He may never, ever live to see freedom again.
22:46He may now die in prison.
22:50You can take from that that crimes like this,
22:53guns on the streets,
22:54innocence, like Olivia being shot,
22:56will not be tolerated.
22:59Where are you from, Sergeant?
23:01We answered in the ear.
23:02What's right on?
23:03I've got nothing on me.
23:04Put your hands behind you, Dad.
23:06OK, there you go.
23:07His sentencing reflects exactly what somebody deserves
23:12when they carry out that sort of behaviour.
23:14I'm going to throw you back.
23:15Some would argue that that length of service
23:18wasn't even long enough
23:19and that life should mean life.
23:22I think in this case,
23:24it sent a very, very clear and strong message
23:26and I believe he deserves every year that you got.
23:30It's a normal Friday.
23:58Everyone's winding down for the weekend.
24:00School's finished.
24:01People are rush out,
24:02getting home to their kids.
24:04Everyone's happy.
24:05And then, of course, a 999 call comes in.
24:13The caller had said that there was a melee
24:16or an argument in the street
24:17and somebody had been seriously hurt,
24:19someone had been stabbed.
24:22So, of course, then,
24:23emergency services made their way to the area.
24:30I think the police officers on scene,
24:31their first impression would probably have been,
24:33this is a fight, a street fight.
24:36Unfortunately, we see this on the news every day,
24:39lads fighting, stabbing each other.
24:41However, it became apparent very quickly
24:43that actually the victim was a girl.
24:50It's quite a chaotic scene, as you can imagine.
24:54There's blue lights flashing.
24:55It's night time.
24:57Members of the public have grabbed hold
24:58of who they suspect to be the knife man.
25:02The police have come here and arrested him.
25:06Put your hands behind your back.
25:09Right, you're under arrest on suspicion of an assault.
25:12You do not have to say anything with me on your defence.
25:14You do not mention, when questioned,
25:16something that you later rely on in court.
25:18Anything you do say may be given an evidence.
25:20Yeah?
25:22Back now.
25:23I think just from the officer's instructions,
25:27you know, he's quite clear.
25:28He's like, ban now.
25:30Yeah?
25:31Ban now.
25:33He's giving him blunt, straight instruction
25:36rather than, all right, mate, what's happening?
25:40Something's happened to this young girl
25:41and he knows what happened.
25:43Have you got anything in your pockets?
25:44My phone.
25:46So, naturally, the officer's going to keep searching him.
25:48I know he's said he's got his phone on him,
25:50but we know that he's just been involved in a knife attack,
25:52so there's no chances here.
25:54You can't take the risk.
25:55You've got to search him thoroughly.
25:56You don't know if he's got any more weapons on him.
25:58Another knife could hurt anyone else.
26:01What's your name?
26:02Logan McPhil.
26:04Logan?
26:04Logan Shane McPhil.
26:08Who's the last?
26:11Do you know her name?
26:13Who?
26:15Newton.
26:17Where's she from?
26:20OK, who knows who this victim is?
26:22And he's able to tell her where she lives.
26:24So, of course, this now changes things.
26:27This isn't a random attack or a gang fight.
26:31This is really personal.
26:32These two people know each other.
26:34This changes the entire dynamic of what's about to happen.
26:36So, this is interesting.
26:49He's trying to get out that she'd kind of pushed him to do it.
26:54He's trying to paint a picture that he's somehow the victim in this.
26:58But the real victim was Holly, who shortly afterwards died from her wounds.
27:15Police now began piecing together the history of her relationship with McPhil to find out why it had ended so violently.
27:23Holly was an amazing young girl.
27:33She loved her dancing.
27:35She was really sporty, outgoing.
27:37Loved being with her friends and her family.
27:39And loved animals so much.
27:44She really wanted to become a dance teacher.
27:47She had an interest in helping young dancers who maybe couldn't afford competitions and stuff.
27:53And wanted to somehow help them to be able to get to competitions and follow their dreams.
27:58Holly met McPhil after they both joined the Army cadets.
28:07He was a year older and had autism and learning difficulties.
28:13This was Holly's first relationship.
28:15And I don't actually think at that age it was anything major.
28:20It was just, you know, kids at that age, it's good to say I've got a boyfriend.
28:26But I do think it was probably more intense for Logan.
28:31The relationship, it had its ups and downs.
28:34They sometimes fell out and they would get back together again.
28:38But after 18 months, Holly had decided she was probably a little bit more mature than he was.
28:43And she decided that she wanted to break up with him.
28:48But he couldn't accept that.
28:50He didn't want it to end.
28:51It was probably just after Christmas, 2022.
29:00She had mentioned that she wasn't sure if she wanted to be with Logan anymore.
29:05And I'd said that she needed to, you know, make a decision and be final with it.
29:13It wasn't long after that when she said, I've been trying to leave him, but he keeps threatening to kill himself.
29:27McPhail had grown increasingly possessive of Holly, demanding to know who else she was mixing with.
29:32At one point, he even locked her out of her social media accounts.
29:39There was once when she wanted to go out with her friends and he didn't want that to happen.
29:46And he said, no, he needed to be with Holly.
29:50He sat on the bathroom floor.
29:52He sobbed and cried inconsolable.
29:55And Holly didn't even know how to react to that.
29:58And she said, I feel awful now.
30:00I feel so sorry for him.
30:01But that was his game.
30:03That's how he wanted her to feel.
30:05Sorry for him.
30:06Despite McPhail's emotional blackmail, Holly finally told him she wanted to break up.
30:27But even after she blocked him on her mobile devices, he refused to move on.
30:32The night before the killing, Logan McPhail left his school and rather than going home, he went on a bus to where Holly lived.
30:45Having got himself there, he hung about her house, obviously waiting for the opportunity to see her and speak to her.
30:55McPhail actually contacts Holly's brother and asks her younger brother to get him access to the house.
31:00And he said no and he didn't allow him into the house.
31:05Unfortunately, McPhail still was not happy about this.
31:10And he actually stayed outside Holly's house for around four hours, walking up and down, up and down until about 1am, which is quite alarming.
31:20He's infatuated with her and starts harassing her.
31:23After McPhail's mother reported him missing, the police found him and took him home.
31:35But as texts from Holly would show, his jealousy and obsession remained.
31:40McPhail had no chance.
32:00you can tell from the volume of people that attended Holly's funeral what a
32:20shock this was to the community and and how upsetting it was it was quite a
32:27turnout and it was a really nice gesture a show of respect that people were an item
32:33of purple clothing because Holly's favorite color was purple
32:50what's your name what's your date of birth you don't know stop being clever right you
33:05know how much body you're in what's your date of birth right but you know what what your day
33:10your birthday is when Logan claimed to not be able to give his date of birth and his address
33:19that was definitely a start of his game playing he knew that if he played like he didn't understand
33:29and like he had serious learning difficulties that he could possibly escape responsibility
33:37Macphail's apparent confusion after the murder was wildly at odds with his behavior before it as
33:47police found when they recovered hours worth of CCTV captured on the day
33:52here we see three teenagers they're carefree they're off to have a bit of fun and just socialize and
34:08be friends it's a scene you see in every town center
34:13after school finishes Holly and her two friends begin their shopping trip
34:19but unknown to them Macphail has already made his way to Hexham armed with a kitchen knife
34:26so we see Logan Macphail getting off the bus from Gateshead he's got a baseball cap pulled down
34:39and then he's putting a snood on it's a cold day but he's been out for two and a half hours it's not
34:48as if he needs that to keep warm he's putting that on to cover his face so people can't recognize him and
34:55he knows he's going to be following Holly who could recognize him
35:04he's on the phone there and we know from phone records subsequently found by the police that he was
35:12calling people telling them that he was in Newcastle rather than Hexham 20 miles away he's trying to paint
35:19a picture that he's not where he actually is
35:22after spotting Holly and her friends Macphail tails them around town using techniques he'd learned as an army cadet
35:38when you see the CCTV one's first reaction is that this is a very chilling
35:45and dangerous young man because he was able to follow he had a knife with him he was disguising himself
35:53and he was very determined about it at one point you could see that he was in a supermarket car park
36:01and he was hiding crouching down in order to make sure that he was not seen by her
36:08He knew exactly what he was doing
36:10as darkness falls one of Holly's friends heads home and the other a 16 year old boy goes into a pizza takeaway store
36:31and that's the point when Macphail approaches her and it's almost like he's seen that opportunity and thought that's his time to strike
36:39she's now vulnerable because she's on her own
36:41you know it's him and her
36:43So now Macphail has got what he wanted
36:47he can take this opportunity to try and make his case for them to get back together again
36:53but something's happened in that conversation he decides to walk down an alleyway and he asks her to come with him
37:05it's believed that Macphail had manipulated Holly into going into the alleyway by telling her he couldn't quite hear her you know
37:11too much noise from the traffic on the busy road and told her to come in the alleyway where it's a bit quieter so they could talk
37:17and unfortunately she followed him in there even if it was unwillingly
37:29I think she's told him in no uncertain terms it's over our relationship's done with
37:33and that's the point where he's lost all inability to think rationally
37:39and in rage it's kind of like if I can't have you no one can
37:45when Holly's friend heard her screams he ran into the alleyway to intervene
37:55but Macphail fought him off with the knife
37:57inflicting wounds to his neck and shoulder
38:01he then began stabbing Holly again
38:05it was a ferocious attack
38:07the pathologist spoke of
38:09in excess of 35 wounds
38:13the knife was broken it was so badly damaged
38:23we were driving home and Holly was ringing
38:27so I answered the phone
38:29and it was a lady on the phone and she said
38:31I've got I've got your daughter's phone
38:33and I said oh where she left it
38:35I'll come and get it she'll be you know
38:37lost without it
38:39and she said that was when she said no she's been she's been stabbed
38:43and I remember just screaming
38:53we knew straight away who'd done it
38:55after his arrest
39:07McPhail insisted he had no memory of the attack
39:09but it was a lie
39:11but it was a lie
39:13as shown by the body cam footage
39:15Who's the last?
39:17Do you know her name?
39:19Pauline was dead
39:21She's been too hard to do
39:23and I don't
39:25I don't know
39:27I remember
39:29that was really important because his case was
39:35that he just happened to be in the alleyway with her
39:37and he didn't know what had happened
39:39he'd gone blank
39:41but that assertion from him
39:43she'd been horrible to me
39:45it was meant for myself
39:47went too far
39:49gave the light of everything he was saying
39:51because it made it clear what his motivation was
39:53when he went into the alleyway
39:55which was that she'd been horrible to him
39:57she was pushing him away
39:59and he reacted
40:01and he took the knife
40:03whether he'd meant it for himself originally or not
40:05he took the knife and he killed her
40:11It later emerged that on the day of the murder
40:13the police had agreed to see Holly and her mother
40:15to discuss McPhail's stalking and harassment
40:19a meeting was set for 4pm
40:23Holly was a young girl
40:26it's Friday
40:27she naturally wants to see her friend
40:29and Holly asked her mum
40:32multiple times
40:34can we rearrange the appointment
40:36can we just go a little bit later
40:37just so I can see my friends
40:41I got a lot of text messages saying
40:43it's so unfair
40:44Logan ruins everything for me
40:48it's always stopped me from going out with my friends
40:50so I said
40:52right okay
40:53well
40:54you need to be back then
40:55for no later than 7pm
40:57because
40:58the police are coming at 8pm
41:03but shortly after 6pm
41:05Holly was pronounced dead
41:07it's definitely one of the biggest mistakes of my life
41:18but he intended to do this
41:20and
41:21like some people have said to me
41:24even if he hadn't got her that Friday night
41:27he would have done that eventually
41:29because he was so obsessed with her and so jealous
41:32the killer of schoolgirl Holly Newton has been jailed for life
41:46with a minimum term of 17 years
41:49the judge said her former boyfriend Logan McPhail
41:52was fuelled by jealousy and resentment
41:55after she ended their relationship
41:57since the verdict
42:02Holly's mother has called on the government
42:04to lower the age at which children are officially recognised
42:08as victims of domestic abuse by partners
42:13Holly's case goes down as knife crime
42:15simply because Holly wasn't old enough to be a victim of domestic abuse
42:19which
42:20to me is absolutely ridiculous
42:24she was
42:25every part of Holly's murder
42:27and leading up to it
42:29is a classic case of domestic abuse
42:32but I like to think she could have got out that relationship earlier
42:35before it got so
42:37extreme
42:42Lowering the domestic abuse age from 18 to 16
42:45would mean victims like Holly
42:47being subject to a homicide review
42:50to pinpoint lessons that can be learned
42:54it could also mean school pupils learning how to spot the warning signs
42:58of coercive control
43:03I don't want Holly to be remembered as the girl that was murdered in Hexham
43:10I would like eventually for Holly to be remembered as the girl who saved lives
43:16the girl who helped other young people
43:23and just to be remembered as, you know, an amazing bright and bubbly girl that she was
43:27I don't know
43:28she's a really good and healthy and beautiful girl, but the girl who was
43:29I don't know
43:30I don't know
43:31that she was
43:32I don't know
43:33that she was
43:35I don't know
43:37I'm not sure
43:38she was
43:39I don't know
43:40I don't know
43:42it's certainly
43:43that she was
43:44Transcription by CastingWords
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