00:00Well, let's talk to David Dunn, Professor of International Politics at the University of Birmingham in the UK.
00:05David, welcome back. When academics like you sit down and you write your book of politics for 2025,
00:11what will you write about the impact of this shutdown for both the US government and ordinary Americans?
00:18Well, I think the big picture is that it shows the division, the polarization and the dysfunctionality of American politics at this point in time.
00:27What we have is that a Democratic Party, the only way they feel they have any influence on the political process is to shut the government down.
00:37And from their perspective, they could argue that they have publicized an important issue, important cuts to American health care costs.
00:45But they blinked at a point where they didn't want to continue with it.
00:50And therefore, they even seem themselves to be divided politically and they're subject to infighting.
00:56So the wider picture is of a polarized nation, of a dysfunctional government and a divided society more broadly,
01:03and one that's hurting as a consequence of those divisions.
01:07I guess many ordinary Americans will say a plague on both their houses.
01:12They're just annoyed with politicians of all parties.
01:15The parties are blaming each other.
01:18Who wins here? Who came out of this worse, Republicans or Democrats?
01:22I think both parties don't come out terribly well, but the opinion polls clearly show that the public blame the Republicans
01:33because they are in charge of all three branches of government.
01:37And Trump in particular is seen as having partied during this crisis.
01:44His popularity ratings have plummeted to an all-time low, even for Trump.
01:48He had a big Great Gatsby-themed party in Mar-a-Lago at Halloween.
01:55And, of course, he's building a $300 million ballroom, an extension to the White House,
02:00at a time when people were in real hardship and suffering from having no paychecks
02:05and suffering from the business functionality of every aspect of state function.
02:09And the contrast between those things actually paint him in a very bad picture
02:13as a consequence of that juxtaposition.
02:15Do voters move on, though?
02:19Do voters simply forget about this disruptive chapter when it comes to, for example, the midterms?
02:26Well, again, the midterms are the crucial point as to how that affects the remainder of Trump's term in an office.
02:36But the opinion polls are showing that actually both the Democratic and the Republican parties have very low favorability.
02:42It's not just that the unfavorability of Trump himself automatically means the Democrats are more popular.
02:51They have a lot of work to do to actually gain in the opinion polls if they're to regain the House or, they hope, the Senate.
02:58And it's not clear that they are in a position to do that, despite the divisions, despite the unpopularity of Trump himself,
03:07because they are not highly regarded among the American people either.
03:11David, good to see you. Thanks so much for coming on the program again.
03:14David Dunn, Professor of International Politics at the University of Birmingham.
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