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00:00Thank you for calling Visa Security Department.
00:03I am from the National Crime Agency.
00:05If you talk to me, then I will guide you.
00:08Every day, we're being bombarded by scammers.
00:11I've got no money in my bank.
00:13How much I have to pay?
00:16But we are fighting back.
00:18Working with ethical hacker Jim Browning, who hacks into scam call centres,
00:23we can tap into this criminal network and track down the victims to stop the scammers
00:29before they steal.
00:31You should not buy those gift cards.
00:32You're going to lose your money.
00:33What was that? What was that?
00:35I can assure you that nothing they're saying is true.
00:38You're on the phone to a scammer, Malak. You need to hang up the phone.
00:41Hang up!
00:42Yes!
00:43This is Scam Interceptors.
00:51On today's episode...
00:53Your computer is hacked right now, so I need to find the hackers.
00:57We disrupt a huge scam operation.
01:00Nick is writing on the scammer's computer right now.
01:03This is BBC Scam Interceptors. Come on.
01:06It's an early start in the scam hub at our Glasgow HQ.
01:15But it's never too early for the scammers.
01:18So only two devices which you use to connect to the Wi-Fi, is that right?
01:23Yeah.
01:24This computer and your mobile phone. Okay.
01:28First thing in the scam hub, and surprise, surprise, we turn up,
01:33we open our access, and our scammers have already got someone on the hook.
01:36Have you ever shared your Wi-Fi password before to any stranger?
01:41No. Nobody knows any of my passwords. No.
01:48The scammer is claiming to be from broadband provider BT,
01:52and is speaking to a man somewhere in the UK.
01:55We don't yet know who or where he's based.
01:59But we do know the scammer is in a call centre on the other side of the world,
02:03in Kolkata, India.
02:07I will help you out, sir. From today onwards,
02:09you will never ever face any kind of problem.
02:11Because first we need to install the security on this computer, alright?
02:15Then we will go to the next one.
02:17Because today we need to install the security on each and every website, sir, right?
02:22So from today onwards, you can use everything safely and securely.
02:26It's just gone half past nine in the morning.
02:29We are monitoring a guy who has been on a call for over an hour.
02:33They are pretending to be his internet provider.
02:36They're coaching him through a classic tech support scam.
02:39They're going to pretend to him that there's hackers in his system
02:42and that he needs their help to get them out.
02:45The scammer claims he's calling from BT.
02:48He's telling the man that viruses have been detected on his Wi-Fi router.
02:54To make it safe, the scammer is telling the man to follow his instructions.
02:59So it is installing something on the computer then?
03:03It is the BT security which we are installing, sir.
03:06And for the lifetime you don't have to pay any single penny for this.
03:09In the time this person has been on the call,
03:12the scammer has convinced him to download remote access software to his PC,
03:18under the guise of security software needed to fix the problem.
03:23Instead, it means that the hacker can now see everything on his computer and even control it.
03:31Everything is done today, sir, because we need to remove all those bad files
03:35which are running in your IP address and on your devices.
03:38Using the remote access, the scammer has opened a window on this person's PC
03:45and is now typing words on the screen to make it appear as though security software is being installed.
03:52On this screen at the moment it says C user slash my name slash installing BT security, is that correct?
04:01That is right.
04:03It's got my name in here, is that correct as well, is it?
04:07That is correct, sir, because this security is installing under your name
04:10so nobody can use it without your permission, sir.
04:13So I think they're just editing it to show it's updating
04:16and make him think there's something happening when actually they're doing things in the background.
04:21Now, the scammer is typing a phony download progress percentage on the screen.
04:28Okay, you need to tell me what is the percentage of the security now?
04:32The percentage is 25.
04:34So congratulations, it is slowly, slowly getting up, sir, alright?
04:39But, as we know there is no security update, it's all a distraction,
04:44aimed at allowing the scammers more time to explore the contents of this person's PC.
04:51Reality is, they just want to get him to open his online banking, what they can see his screen.
04:55What they'll then do is they'll use that remote access to block the screen out.
05:00They can do whatever they want and we've seen what these guys do,
05:02they often transfer directly to mule accounts in Thailand or other mule accounts in the UK.
05:07But, these BT scammers aren't stopping with the man's computer.
05:12They're now also trying to get access to his mobile phone.
05:16Now, on your mobile phone, you need to open up your Play Store.
05:20Yeah, I'll open that up, yeah.
05:22Now, below, can you see the scammer of AnyDesk remote desktop?
05:26Can you see that? Yeah.
05:28AnyDesk is a legitimate piece of software used to give people you know remote access to your phone or laptop.
05:36For example, friends or family.
05:38But the scammers have weaponized the tool.
05:41And then what do you see?
05:43Allow, don't allow.
05:45Allow, allow. Click on allow.
05:47Basically, this guy's in big danger.
05:49He's going to lose money.
05:50So, we need to get him on the phone if we can.
05:52But, he's on a landline blocking our chances of being able to get through
05:55because we don't have any other number for him.
05:57With only a landline to go on, we need to find an alternative way of contacting the man.
06:05Guys, how are we doing with finding anything out about this man?
06:08I have had a hit on his landline number.
06:10It confirmed that his landline has given him his first name.
06:13As a result, I've jumped onto 192.
06:15I've also now got his home address as well.
06:17Fantastic.
06:18This is a breakthrough.
06:20We now know the person's name.
06:22We will call him Edward.
06:24We also know he's based in Yorkshire.
06:26Nick decides to dispatch our ground team, Nathan and Lauren, to the man's home.
06:31I think the GIs are maybe just over an hour away, so...
06:36Brilliant. Okay. Let's get him on the road.
06:37Is the set-off saying?
06:39Just over an hour. One hour, five minutes.
06:43But, while Nathan and Lauren make progress, so too do the scammers.
06:48They're getting close to being able to see everything that's on Edward's phone.
06:52Now, you will get the security warning from the BT Secure Center.
06:55Because we're about to install the security on this device as well.
06:59It's a common trick.
07:01The scammers will have named their remote access session, BT Secure Server,
07:06to give the impression that Edward is connecting to an official site to download the so-called security software.
07:14Over there, you need to click on I trust this call. Click on that.
07:17Then you will see start now. You need to click on start now.
07:21Nick briefs Lauren and Nathan.
07:25So, we came in, we sat down, we opened our access, and straight away we saw a call that was over an hour.
07:31And, unfortunately, it's a man, and they've got remote access to his phone and his computer as well already.
07:37We've got no way to get in touch with him, because he's on a landline to the scammer.
07:41We haven't got a mobile for him, even though he's got his mobile in his hand.
07:44And we just, we're powerless, basically. We need you guys to get there.
07:47Thank you so much.
07:52Meanwhile, the scammer is continuing with his lies.
07:57So, now do not do anything on your mobile phone. Leave it as it is.
08:02And just check the percentage on your computer. What is the percentage?
08:0655.
08:08We know the software update is a con, and that the scammer is simply writing a new percentage on Edward's screen.
08:16To buy himself more time to explore Edward's PC, and now his phone.
08:22It's just showing software update on the screen.
08:26Because we are installing your security on your banking, your shopping, your email, your everything.
08:32So, you can use those websites safely and securely.
08:36Nick and the team have to keep trying to contact Edward.
08:41I'm just going to try his landline.
08:43Okay, great.
08:45It's ringing.
08:51I'm in like a call waiting system. It's ringing again.
08:57No, no.
09:02Sent me to voicemail. Okay, so there is a call waiting system in place.
09:05It rang initially, but then it said the person you're trying to call knows you're waiting, and then it put me through to a voicemail.
09:11So, I think he's probably got control of that. And he's basically pushed the call because he's on this.
09:15Are you speaking to someone, sir?
09:17Yeah, I'm speaking to my wife. Yeah.
09:19Okay. Tell your wife there's nothing about to be worried. From today onwards, he can also use the internet safely and securely.
09:25Yeah.
09:26Hang on, his wife's in the room.
09:29He's talking to his wife and the scammer picked up on it and straight away was like, are you talking to somebody?
09:33With the scammer on the landline, we're running out of options to contact Edward. But then interceptor Aaron has a breakthrough after finding Edward's details on a directory of local social groups.
09:47I do have his mobile number.
09:49You've got a mobile number?
09:50Yeah.
09:51See?
09:52So, I'll just get back up again.
09:53Great find. That is definitely his mobile number.
09:56Do you want his number, Nick?
09:57Uh, yeah. Send it over.
09:59Oh, if I were to do that, 0774.
10:01But texting or calling the mobile number isn't a straightforward option for the team.
10:07We're in a very awkward situation right now because, on the one hand, we now have a mobile number for this man.
10:14But the scammers have got remote access to his mobile and to a computer as well.
10:19Were we to text the mobile, highly likely the scammer's going to receive that message, not the man.
10:26Now, why is that a problem for us?
10:28You look at that screen there, there's 20-something, maybe, agents working for that call centre today.
10:35We wouldn't be able to intercept any other scams if a scammer sees a message coming from us and they think, hang on a minute, how could someone know there's a scam happening here?
10:43Someone might be listening to our calls. We need to change server. Suddenly we lose all our access and our ability to save anybody else.
10:48So we're always in this slight balancing act between stopping people from losing their money, which of course we're always going to do, we're always going to prioritise, and not losing our access completely.
10:58Whilst we know we've got the ground interceptors on the way there, who can intercept in a way that baffles the scammers.
11:04They have no idea how that's happened. How could someone have turned up and told this person it's a scam?
11:08There's no way they'll associate that with access to their phones.
11:11However, our much louder way of intercepting, texts, calls, etc.
11:15We just can't risk that right now until we know this man's money is 100% on the line.
11:20Come on team, just get them up on the mat.
11:23We are able to track the progress of our ground interceptors in real time, but they are stuck in heavy traffic and still 45 minutes away.
11:35It just makes you feel helpless when you're in traffic like this. There's nothing you can do.
11:40I think it'll be a miracle that we get there in time.
11:45God, look, they're crawling in traffic. Look at that.
11:48Edward has been on the call for 79 minutes, and the scammers are steering the conversation towards his bank details by typing a request on his PC screen.
12:00What do you see now?
12:03We're at 58% to install security. Please type your security number.
12:08Okay, so he's asking for the security number. Whenever you log into your bank, say you put the five digit security number, is that right?
12:17Yeah.
12:19Yeah, you type that five digit security number over there so we can install the security on your banking, your shopping, your email, everything will be secure.
12:27As soon as Edward puts his security number in, the scammers will be into his bank account, able to see his balance and potentially transfer his cash.
12:37But Edward hesitates.
12:39And that's something I don't share with anybody, isn't it?
12:42No, no, that is right, sir. But we are not asking your personal ID or any personal P number. This is the security number so we can secure your everything. That's it, okay?
12:53After putting the security number, you need to press enter and then it will disappear automatically. Okay?
12:59Right.
13:00The scammer seems to have won Edward a round and with them now potentially able to transfer his cash to an account under their control, we need a plan B.
13:13I think what we're going to try and do, because unfortunately the GIs are stuck in traffic and they're still a fair way away from this guy's place.
13:22So we're going to try and call this mobile and just see if it breaks the blocker that the scammer's put on his screen.
13:26But then the scammer's phone line starts to play up.
13:31There's some problem going on. I can't hear you properly, sir, right?
13:35Within a second, I will call you from the beta line, okay?
13:39You just hang up my call. I will call you from the beta line within a second, all right?
13:44They're saying they're going to hang up, so I'm going to try from the landline over here.
13:47Number, guys?
13:48Here we go.
14:03Oh, hello. My name is Nick Stapleton.
14:07I'm a journalist. I work for a programme called Scam Interceptors at the BBC.
14:13Right.
14:14I don't know if you're familiar with what we do, but...
14:16Yes, I have seen it.
14:18You've seen it, okay. That's helpful.
14:21I'm really sorry to tell you this, but **** on the phone with the scammer.
14:25Oh, right. Hang on a minute.
14:28This is that guy from that television programme, the person you're talking to, the scammer.
14:33Oh, hell. What do we do?
14:39Hello? What do we do?
14:41First of all, that guy that you've been talking to
14:43is absolutely nothing to do with your internet provider or whatever it was that he was claiming.
14:47All right, so what do we do then?
14:48He is a criminal.
14:50Yeah.
14:51And we're going to need to take some action, but first I just need to understand exactly what he's asked you to do.
14:57He's asked me to put my bank code in.
14:58Did you download something called AnyDesk?
15:02Yes, I'm on that now, on the P, yes. On the phone, mobile phone.
15:06On your mobile phone, okay.
15:08What I suggest you do straight away is to turn off your phone completely.
15:13They're in the bank.
15:15Yeah, so you need to turn off your phone straight away.
15:16I'm trying to do it. It won't turn off.
15:22Yeah.
15:24You just take a breath, don't worry. We'll get this sorted.
15:26Yeah.
15:27Right, yeah.
15:28It's going to be all right, okay. We're going to sort it out.
15:30So we're calling your...
15:32Your bank. Please pick up your call.
15:35Yeah.
15:37So do not take any further calls from them.
15:40Right, yeah.
15:42So have you managed to turn off the phone?
15:43Yeah.
15:44You have? Okay, brilliant.
15:46Edward confirms that during the call, he logged on to his online bank account,
15:51meaning the scammer was able to see exactly what he had in his account.
15:56We need to get off the phone. You need to call your bank right now.
15:59Right. And how do I do that?
16:02So there's a couple of ways. If you're with one of the big high street banks,
16:05you can use 159. It will put you through to your bank's fraud department.
16:09Alternatively, there should be a number on the back of any debit card that you've got
16:12that you can ring.
16:13Can I do that while you're online with my wife's phone?
16:16Yeah, of course. Of course. I'll sit with you, no problem at all.
16:19Yeah.
16:21Are you okay?
16:23Yeah.
16:25Edward passes the phone to his wife.
16:28Hello.
16:29He needs to talk to the bank right now because I think that scammer does now have access to his online banking
16:35and I don't know what they were doing, but from what I could hear of the call, it did not sound great.
16:42Right. Okay.
16:43He needs to explain to them that he's essentially had a scam call and he's logged into his online banking
16:49whilst the scammer could see his screen and access his phone.
16:53Right. Is it 159 you've asked him to ring?
16:56Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
16:58Just ask him just to sort of, just to breathe a bit slowly and just, like, it's going to be okay.
17:02Like, he's not done anything wrong, this is not his fault.
17:06Edward and his wife are clearly shaken.
17:10I actually dispatched two journalists from Manchester to come and give you a hand.
17:14Right. Right. Okay.
17:16They're called Nathan and Lauren and they carry BBC ID on them.
17:20If you guys want their assistance, they can help you remove the stuff that the scammers put on his phone.
17:26Because my worry is, when he turns the phone back on, it's quite possible that the scammers will still be able to see it and have access to it.
17:34So...
17:36Okay. No problem at all.
17:40He's through as the bank goes.
17:42But, during our call, the bank, who Edward is currently on the phone to, raises suspicions.
17:48Guy called Mitch Stapleton.
17:50From the BBC.
17:51From the BBC.
17:52He's got some people on their way.
17:56I don't know.
17:57She's asking him why somebody from BBC and why you've rung him now.
18:01Because she thinks you're a scam.
18:04And all of that.
18:06Yeah.
18:07No, they just hung up on me.
18:11It's understandable that the bank is cautious, but it's made our job much tougher.
18:17So, on the one hand, we can be at least happy that the man we spoke to has been onto his bank.
18:27They should have secured his money.
18:29On the other hand, unfortunately, he's still got remote access on his phone, and I really want to get the team there to get it off, because we can't even see the screen that had the remote access, who knows what they could have been doing.
18:42Hopefully we'll be able to clear this up.
18:44Because at the moment, I'm afraid those two people who I hope we just helped, think that we're part of the scam.
18:52Nick updates Nathan and Lauren, who are now just minutes away from Edward and his wife.
18:57I've tried several times subsequently to reach the targets again, and I can't get through to them on the phone.
19:03So, we're thinking that the best thing to do is just for you guys to go and do a welfare check on them, and see that they're doing alright, and offer to help them remove the remote access from their phone.
19:12Because if they don't do that, they're still at risk, and we need to put a full stop on this and be absolutely sure that their money is safe and secure.
19:21Nathan and Lauren have no idea what to expect when they knock on Edward's door.
19:27I think I'm probably the most nervous I've ever felt for a door knock, because the target doesn't believe that we're from the BBC.
19:37So, you know, trying to gain that trust is going to be really difficult.
19:43Fortunately, Nathan was able to gain their trust.
19:46Although Edward and his wife didn't want to be identified, they did invite Nathan and Lauren into their home.
19:53Once inside, Edward explained that his bank had confirmed that no money had been taken from his account.
20:01The GIs were able to help remove the remote access software from his phone and PC.
20:07So, we're just about to uninstall the remote access software that's on the target's phone at the moment.
20:14So, we're just uninstalling any desk now at the moment.
20:19And that should disappear in a second.
20:23Uninstalled.
20:27It's a job well done for the team.
20:29So, that was a bit of a challenging one when we first got there, because the target didn't trust us.
20:38Once we went in, thankfully, we managed to calm them down and we gave them the support they needed.
20:44Once you press the enter button, type it over there.
20:45Your computer is hacked right now. So, I need to find the hackers.
21:00We've been listening in to these scammers based in Sector 5, Kolkata, India for the past six weeks.
21:06We need to analyse where the hackers have been taking all your information and they have been started to misuse.
21:14It's the same scammers who targeted Edward, posing as his internet service provider, intent on stealing his cash.
21:23As I need to protect you with everything, so could you please let me know first, what is the last balance which you have seen in your bank, in your account?
21:35Is it Amazon?
21:37As our investigation into this scam call centre draws to a close, we want to disrupt this criminal network as much as we can to stop them scamming people in the future.
21:48So, Nick, we are looking at here one of the most prolific call centres that we've had.
21:52Mm-hm.
21:53Throughout our filming in the Hub. What can we do?
21:57Well, we can write on their computer screens and we can let them know that we know exactly who they are and where they are and that we're going to be passing their information on to the authorities.
22:08I think that will definitely put the wind up them. I can also actually block them from using their own computers.
22:14So, what the scammer sees when they look at their computer is writing from us, saying we know who you are and what you're doing.
22:22We can only do this once. As soon as Nick starts typing, we'll almost certainly lose our ability to listen in to their calls.
22:31But Nick has a plan, which means we can hear their reaction in the call centre.
22:36So, I can open their microphones, so they're wearing these headsets with microphones on to make and take calls and what I can do is I can basically switch on the microphone so we can hear the room sound and then hopefully hear that moment that they see someone writing on their screen.
22:51That would be brilliant.
22:52That would be brilliant.
22:53I love that moment where we get to hear them experience that same fear that they put into the people that they're trying to scam every single day.
22:58Absolutely. You know, we're going to get to put the wind up them.
23:01Put the wind up them.
23:02Our ethical hacker Jim has struck gold. He has been able to identify the real names of all the workers at this call centre after finding what looks like a payroll document on one of their computers.
23:16We will be able to call each of them out directly.
23:20Hi, this is Gracie.
23:22The scammers have no idea what's coming.
23:26They're too busy thinking about lunch.
23:29Okay, let's do this.
23:39Okay.
23:40Right.
23:41So, I'm going to start with Gracie here.
23:43Okay, so this is her computer now.
23:45She calls herself Gracie.
23:46We know that's not her real name.
23:50And let's see what we can do.
23:52We want to make sure that the people in this call centre know that we're onto them and that we'll be reporting their actions to the local police.
24:01Time to put our plan into action.
24:05So, Nick's now locked the scammers' computer so she can't actually access it.
24:09Here's her script.
24:13This is Gracie, how can I help you?
24:16And now Nick's writing on the scammers' computer.
24:18Nick is writing on the scammers' computer right now.
24:21This is BBC Scam Interceptors.
24:24Come on.
24:25Let's hear Gracie's panic.
24:32We know where you are, Kolkata Sector 5.
24:40They're reading it out.
24:42We are giving your details to Birdhanganagar Police, which is the local police.
24:51We want our warnings to make these scammers think twice about continuing their operation.
24:57There's confusion there and obviously it was a female voice that started.
25:11Now we've got male voices we can hear in the background, clearly in the office, trying to read out what's on the screen.
25:18Nick's just enlarged it now so the entire screen is our note to them.
25:22He's reading it out. You are criminals and you are stealing people's hard-earned money.
25:46Money and money.
25:53That's it, Nick. Make it as big as you can.
25:55There you go.
25:57Boom.
25:59Now that's all they're going to see on their screen now.
26:01Yeah.
26:02We've certainly spooked the scammers.
26:09Definitely hear a lot of panic going on in this scam call centre.
26:12They're all talking about what they're reading out on this computer and as they're reading that out, they're about to discover it's going to be on another computer now because Nick's writing on the second one.
26:23The scammers have got the message.
26:26They shut down their entire operation, meaning they won't be scamming anyone else.
26:32They're task-managering all the computers now, which means they're basically going to start either resetting them or trying to wipe them back to factory settings.
26:39So we'll probably lose our access pretty quickly.
26:41Yeah, they're all going. They're all going.
26:44He logged out.
26:45Logged out, logged out, logged out.
26:47So when we first looked at this group this morning, Nick, they were active.
26:51There was a lot of calls in progress.
26:53There was a lot of scam attempts being made.
26:56And right now, as we look at it, how many can you see are still in progress?
27:01None. There's no business being done. All the computers are off.
27:04Well, that's got to be a win.
27:07We contacted the people working in this scam call centre, but as yet, we haven't had a response.
27:14We did, however, pass all our findings to the Indian authorities.
27:23If you think you've been scammed, then there are some steps you need to take straight away.
27:28Firstly, call your bank. The number is usually on the back of your bank card.
27:33Remove any software that scammers have asked you to install on your phone or laptop.
27:39Change your passwords on as many online accounts as you can.
27:44Report the crime to action fraud.
27:46Go to actionfraud.police.uk or call 0300 123 2040.
27:52If you're in Scotland, report the crime to the police on 101.
27:57And if you've had a scam text, forward that to 7726.
28:01That spells SPAM on your phone's keypad.
28:04The more that you report, the more that can be done to stop them.
28:09Call 5-2-1-8-4-2-8-2-1-2-2-3-2-1-1-2-1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3-2-4-3-1-4-2-3-1-3-2-3-1-2-3-4-4-2-4-1-1-2-2-3-1-3-3-1-2-4-2-1-4-1-4-3-1-5-1-3-2-2-4-1-3-2-3-1-2-3-0-3-4-1-2-1-5-2-1-2-3.
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