- 2 days ago
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Hello and welcome to Khalees Times. Today we're joined by a true pioneer in the loyalty and reward space, Marwan Kenawi.
00:08He's a CEO and co-founder of dSquares, one of the leading loyalty solutions providers across Europe, Middle East, and Africa.
00:16Mr. Marwan, thank you so much for being with us here today.
00:18Thank you. Hi.
00:19If you could please tell us how loyalty programs are changing from just offering people, customers, points to a more enhanced value and more experience.
00:30Loyalty programs totally changed. Changed from the old plastic cards to digital experiences.
00:37And even the rewards are totally different now.
00:40So before customers were getting the same rewards like earning and burning points.
00:45Now you give customers the value according to the segment, according to the cost, according to the product and behavior.
00:54So it's not just about earning and redeeming points.
00:57Customers now enjoy discounts, e-commerce experiences, they can have travel experiences, they can redeem their points in charity.
01:09So it totally changed when it comes to the customer experience and the rewards.
01:15In what ways can loyalty programs help change people's experiences and strengthen their connections with brands?
01:21The most successful loyalty programs now turn into lifestyle programs.
01:27So you can tell the customers that whenever they shop, they can just use their points or earning points.
01:35And even the payment changed.
01:39So now you can pay with your points.
01:41You don't have to subscribe for a voucher or wait for a physical voucher to use it.
01:47You can just pay with your points seamlessly with their mobile.
01:50And it just takes seconds.
01:54You can also change the behavior of the customer.
01:57So it could motivate good behaviors.
02:02So you can encourage customers to have more cardio, to walk more.
02:07So the more you do sports, the more you walk, you can earn points, you can win badges, you can get the right reward.
02:14And explain the strategy that you're having, the loyalty strategy that you have at Saudi Arabia.
02:20As you know, Saudi is one of the fastest growing countries in the region, maybe in the world.
02:26And we moved our regional office to Saudi Arabia three years ago.
02:29We're one of the leading companies when it comes to loyalty programs in Saudi Arabia.
02:32We have a big team there.
02:34We've built a very strong network of merchants.
02:36When it comes to Saudi Arabia, we managed to, now we're managing loyalty programs for, like, banks, telcos, FMCGs, retailers, oil and gas companies.
02:47So what did that look like?
02:49Look, we believe that loyalty programs work for government entities.
02:54Because at the end of the day, a citizen or a customer is a citizen.
02:59We serve more than 150 million customers across, like, 16 countries across the region.
03:05And across all segments, like the mass segments, the high-end customers, retail segments, the enterprise segments.
03:14We work with different government entities.
03:17And we believe that we can solve some of their problems through loyalty and through data.
03:23And we can also help them achieve their objectives.
03:26So one of the examples that we have is a program that we're running with the Ministry of Education in Egypt.
03:36They have more than one million teachers.
03:39And they wanted to incentivize their teachers with the right rewards with the least cost.
03:45So what we've done is that we've built a market, an offers marketplace for the teachers.
03:50So according to their segment, they get very attractive rewards and discounts across the whole country.
03:56So they feel that they are recognized.
03:59And then at the same time, they make a lot of savings per month when they use this platform.
04:04We also work in Saudi Arabia with the Ministry of Health.
04:08They have a very successful volunteers program.
04:12What we've done here is that we also built an offers marketplace for the volunteers, the doctors.
04:21And the more they use the program, the more they volunteer, they get rewards.
04:27These rewards should be relevant rewards, very nice discounts, attractive discounts.
04:32So again, you recognize the volunteers and this should help them that the more they volunteer, the more benefits and relevant rewards they should get.
04:45There is also another program that we have with the Ministry of Finance that's also in Egypt that helps the Ministry of Finance or the tax authority to collect more taxes or VAT from the merchants.
05:04So we introduced, we launched the mobile app for the citizens, scan the receipt that has a VAT, that has a VAT on it.
05:13They get rewards, they get rewards, they earn points, they enjoy discounts, free vouchers.
05:19So this will help, it will make that, it will encourage the citizens to use it more.
05:24It will also encourage the dealers and the traders in the market to use this voucher and use the VAT on every single transaction.
05:36They also worked with Saudi tourism authority on a very interesting campaign last year, which is in line with their strategy on attracting tourists to Saudi Arabia.
05:48So we've run this campaign, like a very nice digital and on-ground activation that encourage customers or citizens in Egypt to travel to Saudi Arabia.
06:00It was a very interesting experience and at the end of this campaign, there are customers who won this prize and they travel to Al-Ola in Saudi Arabia.
06:15So we can always use loyalty, use rewards, use data and gamification to encourage the citizens to take the right action.
06:24It's interesting that you're covering multiple segments and different entities.
06:28It's not just one entity, it's not like only for hospitals or nurses, but it's also for teachers.
06:35So you're trying to cover, you know, different segments, which makes it very interesting.
06:39And I think, like you said, it encourages, you know, people from different segments to use these loyalty programs.
06:48You can also use it for, like, in sports.
06:50If you want to encourage the people to play more sports and different sports activities, you can give them the right rewards.
06:59And you can also use it for, like, saving electricity and saving water.
07:05So when you save electricity and you save water, you get an incentive.
07:10When you pay your bill, your utility bill, at the right time, you also can get an incentive.
07:18You get points, you go into a raffle draw, you enjoy relevant discounts, freebies.
07:25So you can always engage with the customers and the citizens to reach the government entity's objective.
07:31I think, especially, you took me, you got me there at sports.
07:35I think, like, sports is something that not many people, I believe, are pushed.
07:41So now, in this case, in this scenario, if you give them a reason to play sports or to do some form of activity and to push them,
07:49it really is a good incentive, I believe.
07:53Yes, it's a very good cause.
07:55Yeah, definitely.
07:56I agree.
07:56How can data help governments personalize rewards?
07:59By using data and AI, you can always give the customers, each customer, a personalized experience and reward.
08:07So I'll give you an example.
08:08You can encourage the citizens to pay their bills on time when you give them the right reward instead of waiting.
08:17And this helps a lot in the cash flow.
08:19And you can also encourage customers to save water and electricity.
08:25You can encourage the customers, like, in Saudi Arabia, for example, they introduced a beautiful metro project.
08:33It's even better than Europe.
08:37But the people are not used to it.
08:39So if you encourage the customers and the citizens to use the metro, even if it will increase the number of metro users for, like, 10 or 20 percent, that's a big number.
08:53So you can change the behavior of the customers.
08:56And sometimes they think about it.
08:58But if you tell them, just do that.
09:00And through your metro ticket, you can get an incentive.
09:04And the more you use the metro station to solve the traffic problem, you will get more rewards.
09:08You'll go into higher tiers and will give you really the reward that you want.
09:13And this will really make an impact and will encourage and motivate a lot of customers to use it.
09:19So you can apply that everywhere.
09:21Yeah, I think in Saudi Arabia, the metro is not big.
09:25So, I mean, people usually only use, like, normal modes of transportation.
09:29And to change the behavior, it needs to have an extra push and a relevant home.
09:34And the experience should be very seamless.
09:36They invested a lot to have such a great project.
09:39But if you give them the incentives, they will use it more and more.
09:43They can earn rewards, which is even better and better.
09:46Of course.
09:47There's a lot of talk about token-based rewards and gamification.
09:51How do these make loyalty rewards more exciting?
09:53So, gamification makes loyalty much more interesting.
09:58Especially for the Gen Alpha and Gen Z segments, the youth segment.
10:03When you give them, like, badges, leaderboards, competitions, it makes it very interesting for them.
10:10It's called fan engagement.
10:12Fan engagement is very similar to citizen engagement.
10:16So, you have fans, you have customers, you have citizens, and you have fans.
10:20Watch concerts.
10:22And you can engage the fans in the stadium, in the concert, and most importantly, behind the screen.
10:29So, when you watch a football match from home, you can, as an example, you can just find a QR code that tells you, scan this QR code and predict who will win this match while watching TV.
10:42So, if you engage the customers with the match or with the concert, and it's more interesting for the customers, you collect data, and you reward your customers.
10:55So, this concept is very interesting when it comes to sports, for example, for the clubs.
11:00So, the clubs will be able to collect data and insights about the fans, which will help them reward the fans in a better way, and will also help them have a better sponsorship package that they can monetize and sell to sponsors.
11:20But, to be honest, it's very difficult to measure the ROI and the success of the sponsorship.
11:28You just have a logo on the t-shirts.
11:29That's not enough.
11:31So, when you use fan engagement, you can engage millions and tens of millions of fans.
11:38You can collect their data as a sponsor, if you provide this fan engagement solution.
11:44So, you collect the data, you understand the behavior of your customers, so you can give them, you can serve them better, give them the right rewards.
11:51If you're a bank, for example, you reward your customers, you earn, you get the data, and you tell them, if you apply for a new credit card, for example, or open a new bank account, you can get 10 times the value.
12:06Instead of getting 100 points, you get 1,000 points.
12:09Instead of getting a free coffee, you can, when you apply for a new credit card, you can take your family for lunch or dinner.
12:18Fan engagement is really new.
12:19We have a very unique product when it comes to fan engagement, and we believe it would be the next big thing when it comes to gamification, fan engagement, and loyalty.
12:29That's so interesting that you're making someone that's behind the screen that's just watching, and you know that they already have their phone next to them at all times.
12:38But now I know how banks get our details.
12:41I'm kidding.
12:43The easiest way to collect data is through loyalty.
12:47So if a bank tells you or any organizations tell you, give me your data, you won't be really interested.
12:55Exactly.
12:56Give me your data, and I'll give you the right rewards and points and offers and so on.
13:01Yeah.
13:02Most probably, you'll be happy to give them your data.
13:04And if you offer a seamless experience with the right rewards, personalized value, you can always change the behavior of the citizen to achieve the government's KPIs.
13:17So it's proven, we've done it before, and I believe it should be always part of, like, the vision of the country, because it's almost impossible for a country to achieve its vision without engaging and having the support of the citizens.
13:37So the easiest way to engage the citizens is by rewarding them.
13:42Of course.
13:42It's win-win.
13:43Very interesting.
13:45Yeah, without the citizens and making them happy, the government's vision cannot be sustained.
13:53Yes, and the vision should be very clear.
13:55Yeah.
13:55Yeah.
13:56What is impressive about Saudi Arabia that most of the people, they know the vision.
14:01Yeah.
14:01They understand vision 2030 and now 2040.
14:05So if you talk to the people in the private sector, in the public sector, and the normal people, like citizens,
14:12most of them understand the vision, and most of them have a common goal, and whenever they achieve, there is a clear, like, measurement every year on what's happening, even every quarter, as if it's like a multinational company.
14:28So they always feel the pride of achieving the KPIs and achieving the goals towards the vision 2030.
14:39Loyalty, gamification, AI, data, personalization, fan engagement, this is all, like, providing extra tools to expedite the process of achieving these goals.
14:56Okay, it's very interesting how they all have the same goal, you're telling me.
14:59Like, they have the same vision that they're all, you know, moving towards or heading towards, but it's...
15:06Yes, it's...
15:07It is impressive.
15:09Yeah.
15:09Yeah.
15:09Where do you see the future of loyalty in the UAE going next?
15:13Like, what do you think is the big, next big steps for the UAE?
15:17UAE is already very advanced, and they already have programs like, rewards programs like Faz'a and Sa'ad and Sa'ada that are owned by the government.
15:27I believe there is great potential in improving these programs through AI, data, advanced solutions, more personalized rewards.
15:40So the key about the next, what's next in UAE is, again, personalization, using AI and the right technology, and giving the customers and each customer the right reward at the right time.
15:54So what, it's about experiences.
15:58So that, so this is changing already, and I believe that the government will have a big role in that.
16:06And even like improving and changing the existing incentives program, they are very, they provide very good value.
16:15But there is definitely a huge potential in improving these programs.
16:20So as a first-hand consumer of Faz'a and Sa'ad, and I think all of us here use them, we want to know what are the next big steps, like what can they, what can the government do to enhance these experiences?
16:33I believe that as UAE is one of the main hubs in the region for entertainment, sports, concerts, this could be the next thing on how to integrate loyalty and fan engagement across all the events happening in UAE.
16:56Whether it's business events, whether it's business events, they have the huge business events, concerts, they host like the biggest teams for football matches and other sports as well.
17:11So integrating loyalty and rewards within these events, this could make a real impact.
17:19And aside from government, I believe that there is still a lot to be done when it comes to the different verticals as well.
17:28So banks, telcos, oil and gas companies, FMCGs, airline companies, even retail.
17:38Most of the retailers, they have loyalty programs, but most of them are very old.
17:43So, and technology has evolved.
17:44So I believe that the next period, like the next years, a lot of the industries and a lot of the existing loyalty programs will be revamped and changed to more advanced technology that is more dependent on data and rewards.
18:06How are loyalty programs changing from simply offering points to more of a customer value and experience?
18:14Loyalty programs have dramatically changed and they became more advanced in the region and the potential is still huge.
18:26Programs change from just earning points and redeeming points into becoming more of a lifestyle program.
18:31And instead of having a loyalty program on one product, it's across all products, across different segments.
18:39Each segment has its different and the relevant proposition.
18:44So instead of, I'll give you an example for a bank, for example.
18:48Bank used to have loyalty programs on the cards, like credit cards.
18:53So customers earn points and redeem points and that's it.
18:56Now there is a pan-banking loyalty program where customers can earn points and earn discounts and different rewards across all the banking products.
19:08So if you use your card, if you use the digital channel, if you get your payroll through the bank,
19:19So retail banking, corporate banking, across if you apply for a financing facility or a loan, you can earn points.
19:29So now it's across all products and across different segments.
19:34And it's not just about earning points and redeeming points.
19:37We build now like fully-fledged catalogs for the customers like the banks and telcos and others that you as a customer,
19:48you can collect your points and earn it and redeem it seamlessly across the merchants with very seamless payment as if it's a payment method,
20:00like pay with points.
20:00You can have relevant discounts every month that you receive for you and your family.
20:07You can have travel experiences.
20:11So you can have a travel portal where you book your flights.
20:13You can book your hotels, your limo service.
20:17It's all through your loyalty program.
20:20If you want to buy an iPhone or if you want to buy a premium product, you can buy it through the portal or the app as well through an e-commerce experience.
20:34And you can even use it for charity.
20:38So if you want to give your points and redeem it for charity organizations, you can do that as well.
20:44Experiences are also new and very important in loyalty programs.
20:51So you can win a very or redeem your points or enjoying a discount to go to the desert and having a very nice experience
21:02or like having a very nice trip with your friends or family.
21:07So it became more of a lifestyle, not just as simple as like earning and redeeming points and getting cashbacks.
21:16That's very true because like thinking of points, we always look for the different cards that will give us different points and different rewards.
21:24And each one is for a specific, you know, like if you want to earn like air miles or air points, you go to Skywards.
21:32And if you go, so it's like we do always look for these rewards and even like talking about charity as well.
21:40Every time I also go to credit, like let's say on my mobile banking app, I do see if in case I want to, you know, give these points to charity.
21:51I think it's very important that we have multiple forms, like different methods where we can use these points and these rewards.
22:03And it's not just, you know, for cashback or it's because for charity or points.
22:08So it's nice that we have like various modes of points like using these points.
22:14Yeah.
22:15This is what makes it interesting.
22:17Yeah.
22:17This is what engages customers.
22:18It's always, you also provide like rewards to the Gen Alpha and Gen Z segments.
22:27So they can get rewards on like Roblox, PUBG, Fortnite, PlayStation.
22:34So even like the digital gaming and the digital world, like the gaming world, is now part of the redemption options, the loyalty programs.
22:45How can loyalty programs help improve people's everyday experiences and strengthen their connection with brands?
22:52If you turn a loyalty program into a lifestyle program, you would reach that.
22:57So I have an example of Vodafone, for example, work with Vodafone and the program was simply earning and redeeming points.
23:06And it changed like a few years back, like eight, nine years back into a lifestyle program where we call it the open loop, where customers can earn points even if they don't have points from their bills.
23:19So you can go to the supermarket, you shop, and when you pay, you tell them, please give me my red points.
23:26When you go to the restaurant, tell them, please give me my red points.
23:30So you can earn points every day and all these points are covered by the merchants, part of the commissions that we take from the merchants.
23:40So it became a lifestyle program.
23:42You don't have to wait until the end of the year to accumulate a lot of points from your bills to make one or two transactions per year.
23:49You can make a transaction every day, your normal behavior.
23:55You can also use loyalty programs and rewards to encourage good behavior like cardio and sports.
24:05So this is also one of the new initiatives in loyalty programs that whenever you walk more and you do more sports, you can earn badges.
24:16You can have like reader boards and competition with your friends and you can earn more points and rewards.
24:25You're trying to get people more and more engaged in different ways.
24:29That's, it's very interesting to see like the different segments and the different niches that you can not only if you accumulate points on the long term, on the long run,
24:40but also you being able to use it every day, like you were saying with Vodafone, you can use it, redeem these points every day.
24:47I think it gives people, like it encourages people to, you know, want to use more of these loyalty programs, want to push them to actually use them more and earn points.
24:58Yeah, we also use it in like health care.
25:01So one of, one of our clients, they provide like, uh, labs or the biggest, the biggest labs, uh, brand, it's called Al-Burga and Amukhtabar, IDH, in the whole region.
25:12You have almost like 500 stores, uh, 500 labs and, um, scans.
25:18We, uh, we, we, we reward the customers whenever they use the service and you can tell them now you have, you need to have your, uh, checkup like every six months when you do your checkup and that's important for everyone.
25:33Uh, you get extra rewards, you get extra points, you can get a discount, you can get a free voucher to go to the gym.
25:40So loyalty is everywhere.
25:42You can, you can use it and utilize it everywhere and with everyone.
25:46Yeah, to our benefits, of course.
25:48Yeah, of course.
25:49Thank you so much for being with us here today and speaking more about D-squared.
25:53Thank you so much.
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