00:06I know, on book release eve, because you have Don't Stop, Why We Still Love Fleetwood Mac's Rumors, out tomorrow.
00:11I feel like people will eat this up, though, because there is an enduring love for Fleetwood Mac, and obviously, their album Rumors.
00:17Why was it important for you, or why did you feel like you wanted to do a whole book about this one album?
00:23I guess I started, really, to think about this book when my son was in high school a few years back.
00:29Okay.
00:29And I just noticed, realized, like, all of his friends knew this album.
00:35And then looking at all of these places that it's kept reappearing in the world, whether it was the TikTok, you know, the guy on the skateboard with the cranberry juice, or the all-rumors episode of Glee.
00:46Right.
00:46And then by the time, you know, Daisy Jones and the Sixth, the book, okay, was out there, by the time the TV series started, I was like, okay, this is, like, there's a thing that's here.
00:57Guys, this album is number 19 on the charts this week.
01:02That's insane.
01:02It is a top 50, 48 years later.
01:05It is a top 20 album right now.
01:0748 years, wow.
01:08And it was the biggest selling rock album of the year last year.
01:12Old, new, whatever.
01:14And so thinking about what is it that's so different about this record that young people still gravitate toward it, that it still has this kind of popularity and impact, that's what I wanted to kind of look into.
01:28A record like this, where every song is so amazing, you just get a, you know, you continue to get a different perspective on different songs at different times.
01:37But something that was really striking was, like, the song Never Going Back Again, which is not a big, wasn't a hit, was not one of the ones you really think of.
01:46But a lot of these, I say kids loosely because some of them are 30, but, you know.
01:52Thank you for saying that.
01:52Yeah, yes.
01:53But certainly younger than me.
01:56That was a song that a lot of them brought up as one of their favorites on the album.
02:01And one thing that a number of them pointed to was the way that it was presented in that Glee episode.
02:07And that it was sort of a big show, the kid who was in the wheelchair did the song and they did this big production with a bunch of acoustic guitars playing behind him down the hall.
02:18And they were like, oh, what an amazing song.
02:21So that's one of those, like, oh, this is one that maybe doesn't stand out on the album so much, but through this other presentation, kids came to it.
02:30And then by the time they went back to the album, saw it in this different way.
02:34And it just shows you how these things continue to evolve.
02:37I think if you're my age, if you grew up with it, this is an album.
02:40You know, Rumors is so defined by the soap opera.
02:43It is so much about the drama and it's so much about Lindsay and Stevie and it's so much about the tension and the breakups.
02:49Every poll of greatest breakup album of all time, it's number one, nothing is close.
02:54Also, especially because of a breakup album where they're both on it.
02:57Where they're all on it, where all three relationships are exploding as they're making the record.
03:02But talking to, like, you know, a 20-year-old about that.
03:06On the one hand, some of them are super into the lore, know all about it, love the soap opera.
03:10Some of them know nothing about it.
03:12But almost all of them wouldn't define it as a breakup album.
03:18It's not about the anger because they know how the story ends, right?
03:23Like, if you live through it, that was the headline.
03:28Afterwards, in many years, you know, like, they went on, they made more records, they had more hits, they went their way through it, they broke up, they came back together.
03:36Like, all this stuff.
03:37But it's just one chapter along the way.
03:39And so there were kids almost talking about it like, you know, relationship goals, which is very modern, but very, like, hey, they broke up, but they kept working together as a service of this music.
03:54And it's, you know, this is an album I listen to when I'm getting ready for school in the morning or before I go out with my friends.
04:00Like, I don't think of it as an angry album or a breakup album at all.
04:04It's really this much more expansive sort of emotion that I turn to for a lot of different reasons.
04:10I'm sure it's explained in the book, obviously, but for listeners who aren't super familiar with the lore and the drama, what is the Reader's Digest version of that?
04:18So the very short version is there are, you know, when they're going in to make the Rumors album, there are three relationships happening within Fleetwood Mac.
04:29Christine and John McVie, the keyboard player and the bass player, are married.
04:32Lindsay Buckingham and Stevie Nicks, we know who they are, are together for many years.
04:38And Mick Fleetwood, the drummer, is married to a woman in England, the sister of Patty Boyd, who was George Harrison's sister.
04:45Jenny Boyd is his wife.
04:48Before and during the making of this record, all three of those relationships end.
04:53Stevie and Lindsay break up.
04:54John and Christine get divorced.
04:56Mick and his wife break up.
04:57There's a point where Mick and Stevie have an affair.
05:00It's absolute chaos.
05:04And yet, they're showing up in the studio, writing these songs about each other, performing these songs with each other, and making this record.
05:14And it's unfathomable that this actually happened, right?
05:19That they're right.
05:20I mean, you've probably seen the memes that are like, you think Kendrick and Drake is rough?
05:26Like, try writing diss records about your ex and then recording it with them.
05:30Did you learn anything new about that whole situation throughout the research process for the book?
05:36I mean, that stuff has been covered so extensively.
05:39And I really didn't want this to be a making of, because that story's been told so much.
05:44You need the background to understand what's happening.
05:47But I think just when you, the more that you put the focus on that, the more you're like, what the hell?
05:52Like, how did this actually all happen?
05:56And how would, like, what would that be today?
05:58Can you imagine, like, anybody that, if there's a breakup now in mid, you know, middle of a session, that's social media the next month, right?
06:07Like, that's all you see.
06:08If a kid listens to an album now, and it's not just, hey, I like that song and whatever.
06:11Or the album is all about the backstory.
06:14Like, Taylor, Beyonce, Sabrina.
06:17Like, you're listening to the album because there's this whole narrative that's attached to it.
06:21This is really about this.
06:23And this is because of this.
06:24Easter eggs, yeah.
06:25And Easter eggs and all that.
06:26And rumors really invent the blueprint for that.
06:29I mean, not intentionally, but that's the first time that you're listening with that sense of, oh, he's talking about her.
06:36And then she's writing back, this is about him.
06:38That is the thing that sort of creates that as a, you know, as a model.
06:42And I think that is part of, that's one of the reasons that it still would connect with a younger listener now.
06:49And, you know, and it's three different singers, three different songwriters, different perspectives, different voices.
06:56It's an album that plays like a, more like a playlist than like one guy singing at you for 45 minutes.
07:02Like, there's this continual variety and range and different perspectives that I think is much more familiar for young listeners than the sort of album experience that they didn't really grow up with.
07:14Right, yeah, totally.
07:14I feel it's also really kind of impressive, too, that you were saying.
07:17Because, I mean, like, all the lore with it, but also all of the talent is kind of, and of course, obviously, Stevie and Lindsay are very front and center.
07:24But, like, everybody is set almost equally known and equally expansive, which you don't really see in bands, too.
07:31Band groups don't really exist right now.
07:34I mean, there are people who've done these studies, you know, looking at the charts.
07:37And then the year-end charts, like last year, I don't know that there was any group that was in the, you know, biggest whatever, 100 songs of the year.
07:46This year, if, you know, K-pop, if Huntrex and K-pop Demon Hunters counts, they'll be that.
07:51You see a construct like this where you do have this incredible range of talent, not only different voices, but at different places in their relationships.
08:04Like, that's where you really get, you know, You Make Love and Fun is on this album as much as Go Your Own Way is on this album.
08:12And Songbird, which is this, you know, beautiful sort of ode to love that's more friendship, love is on there.
08:18And The Chain is on there, which is, okay, you're never really, it's never really over.
08:23Like, you're always going to be connected to these people.
08:26So, you know, you get this whole spectrum of emotions across this album, partly because it's different writers.
08:35It's, you know, different people who are at different places along the way presenting their thoughts.
08:41And, not for nothing, you know, two of those are women.
08:47It is the biggest selling album in American history with majority female voices on it.
08:53Wow.
08:53The bigger ones are, you know, Thriller, Hotel California, Back in Black, really, you know, not just male, but like very male records.
09:00So, in a much more multicultural and gender aware universe today, I think that makes a big difference.
09:08It doesn't feel like, oh, that's just, you know, four white long hair guys with guitars like my parents listen to.
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