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00:00:00Well, when we were at school, and we learned your catty kissing, and babies that were born that weren't baptised went to a place called Limbo.
00:00:13In Limbo, they didn't get into heaven. They just floated about.
00:00:20When I was a kid, I would have looked up in the sky to see if I could see wee babies floating about.
00:00:25That's her naive word.
00:00:27I didn't have a Catholic education, so I only had my lessons when I became a convert, and it was never something that was talked about.
00:00:39I didn't really know anything about it until this happened.
00:00:45They were on the edge, if you like, of heaven, but also on the edge of being lost.
00:00:51In Roman Catholic tradition, the teaching on babies who died unbaptised was bleak.
00:00:59Their souls weren't allowed to go to heaven.
00:01:02They went to a mysterious in-between place called Limbo.
00:01:06There's a darkness about it. There's a fear about it. There's a palpable feeling of not being able to come to terms with it.
00:01:15But the soul of their child would be going to this otherworld place, and its body would rest in an unconsecrated ground.
00:01:23Two tragedies in all.
00:01:24Across the UK and Ireland, lie small plots of land, anonymous fields, remote islands, in which are buried thousands of these babies.
00:01:40Forbidden to be buried in sacred ground, their graves are unmarked.
00:01:46Hidden and secret.
00:01:47It's as though they never existed.
00:01:52Limbo babies.
00:02:06For Roman Catholics, heaven is a state of almost indescribable supreme happiness.
00:02:11Believers look forward to living a perfect life with God, and eventually being reunited with their loved ones.
00:02:19But if your baby died unbaptised, Roman Catholic theology decreed that entry to heaven was God, and separation was eternal.
00:02:29They were given a kind of middle position between the two, between the lost and those who were saved.
00:02:40Between those who were in paradise and those who were not in paradise, clearly.
00:02:45But even the most devout parents have found this concept difficult to accept.
00:02:54My baby was supposed to be in limbo.
00:02:57Whatever limbo is.
00:03:01I didn't class them as being in limbo, that his wee soul was floating about in disguise.
00:03:06And always in heaven.
00:03:09That's what you were taught in school, and you had to believe that you were taught.
00:03:13I just believe that she's up in heaven.
00:03:21I know that's not the right teaching, but that's what I believe.
00:03:25I just think if God took her for some reason, then he wouldn't, you know, he's going to want her with him, hopefully.
00:03:32She's with my parents, and that's what I have to believe.
00:03:36My own peace of mind.
00:03:38The fate of the unbaptized child has been debated within Catholicism since its earliest days.
00:03:47Fr. Thomas Norris is a member of the Vatican's International Theological Commission.
00:04:02This 30-strong body advises the Pope on key issues, including limbo.
00:04:08It was taught because it was a hypothesis that could explain a huge difficulty.
00:04:20To get to heaven, you have to be baptized in order to cancel original sin.
00:04:28The child that's not baptized has original sin, which blocks us out from heaven.
00:04:38It would have been taught at every level, in the home, in the school, in the church.
00:04:43Everybody would have been aware of it.
00:04:47Canon Law, the Roman Catholic rulebook, stipulated that dead babies couldn't be baptized.
00:04:53These rules also refuse them entry to consecrated or blessed ground.
00:05:05Unbaptized babies, they were not buried in consecrated ground in the past,
00:05:09because they were not, you see, baptized in themselves.
00:05:14The importance about graveyards is that they are consecrated ground,
00:05:18and therefore only hallowed souls are allowed to be buried in these places.
00:05:23Forbidden to be buried inside the cemetery,
00:05:31parents had to find alternative resting places for their unbaptized infants.
00:05:39Often, they tried to bury them as close to consecrated ground as they could.
00:05:45At the edge of Hannahstown Cemetery in Belfast is one such burial site.
00:05:51People drive by the site, completely unaware of what's here.
00:06:02Tony Maguire has carried out extensive research here,
00:06:06and it has been recently acknowledged by the parish as a limbo baby grave.
00:06:13The ethnography that came forward from local people over decades, really,
00:06:21was that all of this land stretched out and was full of baby burials.
00:06:27And when we explored it further, with the cemetery staff who had been here for a very long period as well,
00:06:34they actually confirmed just a lot of the babies here,
00:06:37but also the babies, as I found in many of the other sites,
00:06:42are buried right along the boundary here of the cemetery and the Hannahstown Road.
00:06:47It's almost as though these children had a double death.
00:07:00Not only did these children die, but they were excluded.
00:07:05Where, in fact, like any family unit, a baby, a young child would be included in the family,
00:07:13in death, these children are excluded.
00:07:16They're left outside, they're marked off, they're roped out,
00:07:21they're marginalised in every conceivable sense of the word.
00:07:24One of the big issues that constantly surfaces is the theology around infants buried in limbo.
00:07:35Parents were told that these infants would not go to heaven.
00:07:40Parents are then worried, well, when I die, and hopefully I go to heaven,
00:07:44my baby's not going to be there.
00:07:46That has caused enormous problems for many, many parents.
00:07:54Over a thousand infant burial grounds, like the one at Hannahstown,
00:08:01have come to light across the island of Ireland.
00:08:05But there are many other sites which have never been identified.
00:08:11Places unmarked and secret,
00:08:13because the burials were tainted with shame and guilt.
00:08:20In many townlands in Ireland, they would have a kiline, as they call it,
00:08:23which is from the Irish kil, meaning church.
00:08:26Kiline would be little church.
00:08:28And so a kiline, or a cialunach, or a cialtruck,
00:08:31are places where people would take the little body,
00:08:33wrap it usually in something white, a white sheet,
00:08:36or if they had it, a little white coffin.
00:08:39And they would bring that to a place,
00:08:42usually as close as they could get to a consecrated site.
00:08:46Sometimes they would go to a boundary location,
00:08:51just between the sand and the sea.
00:08:54And so there's the element of trying to get as close as you can
00:08:57to a consecrated ground, but failing that,
00:09:00to a place which kind of reflects the fact
00:09:04that this soul goes to an in-between or intermediate
00:09:08kind of world in the afterlife.
00:09:09This is reflected not only in Irish tradition,
00:09:15it is reflected throughout, actually, England, Scotland, Wales,
00:09:20throughout the Scandinavian countries,
00:09:22and particularly through the Roman Catholic areas of Europe,
00:09:25such as France, Spain, Italy.
00:09:29Although unmarked on the landscape,
00:09:32kilines were not randomly located.
00:09:34The landscape is literally littered with such sites.
00:09:43It only takes one burial to class it as a kiline.
00:09:46It's not necessarily huge numbers.
00:09:50You're talking about town-land boundaries,
00:09:52particularly beautiful spots within the landscape,
00:09:56anywhere that we would have been able to find again easily.
00:09:58The location of these places was veiled in secrecy,
00:10:07never formally recognised,
00:10:09known only to a few members of the local community.
00:10:14Local people have recognised this site as a kiline,
00:10:18and quite a few people have said,
00:10:19all the babies are buried within the centre of this structure.
00:10:23This is a small structure,
00:10:24and given the period of time that this would have been used,
00:10:27it is most likely that the burials actually would have extended
00:10:30outside the structure,
00:10:32in any location around this particular little area of ground,
00:10:35just around it.
00:10:36It's marked in the landscape in this particular case,
00:10:40but even if it wasn't,
00:10:41if this structure wasn't here,
00:10:43this is such a beautiful spot,
00:10:45local people would see this as a magnificent location.
00:10:48In Donegal, in Ireland,
00:11:05many parents took their children for burial to places like this,
00:11:09in Olmnemorov,
00:11:11Island of the Dead,
00:11:13a traditional burial place for limbo babies.
00:11:16My granny's mother had a baby,
00:11:21and it died when it was born,
00:11:23and it was taken down to the island and buried,
00:11:27and the wee coffin was made out of wood
00:11:30that came in from the sea.
00:11:33A lot of people would be up and down on the island,
00:11:36and it was just a play place,
00:11:38little realising that it, you know,
00:11:40held all these wee angels that was buried there.
00:11:43Anne Hanlon and her mother Catherine
00:11:49are from the area
00:11:50and have relatives buried on the island.
00:11:54A lot of us knows that there are babies belonging to them,
00:11:57buried there,
00:11:58but they don't know where they're buried.
00:12:01You know, they'll hear the people talking
00:12:02that they weren't there,
00:12:03but I don't think they knew
00:12:06whether there was boys or girls
00:12:07or where they were buried.
00:12:08Traditionally, unbaptised babies were buried
00:12:15when the tide was out
00:12:16and the island was accessible by foot.
00:12:19It would have been a very lonely walk down
00:12:25Golden, the child,
00:12:29a beautiful beach,
00:12:31but a very, very sad journey, I'm sure.
00:12:35You had the wee grave dug,
00:12:38and they had to bury the coffin
00:12:41and put rocks over the top of the coffin
00:12:45to make sure that nothing else would have dug it up.
00:12:50And the mother's standing up at her door
00:12:54where she could see it
00:12:55and see the people down on the island
00:12:58burying her child,
00:12:59which would have been a very, very sad thing
00:13:03to have to go through.
00:13:08Oh, I would say it'd be kept quiet at that time.
00:13:12You know, there'd be very little talk about it.
00:13:15I think what it was
00:13:17is that it was looked on as a sin very nearly,
00:13:21just because they weren't baptised,
00:13:23which was no sin on them.
00:13:33There was actually a shame
00:13:35and a guilt
00:13:37and still a fear
00:13:39talking about it.
00:13:40And I think fear
00:13:41is actually the huge
00:13:43motivating feature
00:13:45here behind it all.
00:13:47The terror
00:13:48of losing the baby
00:13:50spiritually
00:13:51as well as physically.
00:13:52Milltown Cemetery
00:14:10is the largest
00:14:11Roman Catholic burial ground
00:14:13in Belfast.
00:14:14There are over 200,000 people
00:14:16buried here.
00:14:18It's here
00:14:19that the issue of limbo
00:14:21has been thrust into the spotlight.
00:14:26Donna Hanvey's brother died
00:14:27just after he was born
00:14:28and was buried here.
00:14:31Shortly afterwards,
00:14:32the family moved to England.
00:14:36In October 2008,
00:14:39Donna decided to visit his grave.
00:14:43It was actually on my 38th birthday.
00:14:46One of the members of staff
00:14:47took us down there.
00:14:49And it was strange
00:14:50because there was
00:14:51like a path.
00:14:53And he asked to stand
00:14:54at the top of the path
00:14:55and he walked
00:14:55to the bottom of the path
00:14:56and there's all marked graves
00:14:58like the surrounds
00:14:59and headstones.
00:15:00And he was walking
00:15:01backwards and forwards
00:15:01and backwards and forwards
00:15:02and I said,
00:15:02there's something wrong here.
00:15:04So he said,
00:15:04yeah, that'll be in the trees.
00:15:06That land has been sold.
00:15:08And I just looked at him
00:15:09and went,
00:15:10are you telling me
00:15:11my brother's in Bob Meadows?
00:15:14He went, yeah.
00:15:15Running along the back perimeter
00:15:19of Milltown Cemetery
00:15:20is a large,
00:15:22anonymous tract of land,
00:15:24a vast peat bog
00:15:26which used to belong
00:15:27to the cemetery.
00:15:29It's believed that thousands
00:15:30of babies have been buried here,
00:15:32some without the knowledge
00:15:34of their parents.
00:15:35Babies in Bob Meadows,
00:15:40it's just appalling.
00:15:43It's appalling.
00:15:45This is not a place for them.
00:15:46They did nothing wrong.
00:15:48None of these people
00:15:48did anything wrong.
00:15:50People, for different reasons,
00:15:52their babies were buried there.
00:15:53A lot of people
00:15:54didn't have a choice.
00:15:56And we want our babies back.
00:16:03In the past,
00:16:05this piece of land
00:16:06was part of Milltown Cemetery.
00:16:08It was often used
00:16:09for the burial of stillborns,
00:16:11porpoise and suicides,
00:16:13many in mass graves.
00:16:18The unbaptised child
00:16:20is in a special category.
00:16:21There are various
00:16:22special categories.
00:16:23An unbaptised child,
00:16:24somebody who commits suicide,
00:16:26a murderer,
00:16:27and somebody who is washed up,
00:16:29a body that's washed up on shore.
00:16:31They're all seen as somehow
00:16:32unusual or abnormal.
00:16:35But in relation to the child
00:16:36that is unbaptised,
00:16:38it is the lack of baptism
00:16:39is the issue.
00:16:40In 2000,
00:16:44the trustees of Milltown Cemetery
00:16:46sold a 999-year lease
00:16:49of the land
00:16:50at the back of the graveyard
00:16:51to a local charity,
00:16:53the Ulster Wildlife Trust.
00:16:54They have planted trees there
00:16:59and made it a wildlife sanctuary
00:17:01called the Bog Meadows.
00:17:06The cemetery authorities
00:17:08sold the land
00:17:09without informing the families
00:17:10of the people buried here.
00:17:11The church maintains
00:17:16the sale was simply
00:17:17an administrative error.
00:17:30The families of infants
00:17:31and young people
00:17:32buried in a part
00:17:33of Milltown Cemetery,
00:17:35which was sold off
00:17:36to the Ulster Wildlife Trust,
00:17:38want the land reinstated
00:17:40as part of the graveyard.
00:17:42Very angry at the Catholic Church.
00:17:45Them babies
00:17:46should never be
00:17:47in the Bog Meadows.
00:17:49In October 2008,
00:17:52relatives begin to publicly
00:17:53protest at Milltown Gates.
00:17:55As well as demanding
00:17:57the return of the land,
00:17:59they want an apology
00:18:00from the church.
00:18:01As word of the protest spreads,
00:18:07local people congregate
00:18:09at the gates of Milltown
00:18:10and start sharing stories.
00:18:13Even former grave diggers
00:18:14come forward
00:18:15to tell of what went on there.
00:18:17I was 1962-63,
00:18:21but they come in
00:18:22and we took them
00:18:23and we took them
00:18:23and we took them
00:18:25and we took them
00:18:25and shoeboxes.
00:18:26Yeah.
00:18:27I dug two feet down
00:18:28and put the wee box
00:18:30in the walls.
00:18:34In the big,
00:18:34yeah.
00:18:35In the Catholic Church,
00:18:36not the way.
00:18:37You've done nothing wrong.
00:18:39And you've never ever
00:18:40think that you've
00:18:41done anything wrong.
00:18:42And like we said,
00:18:43the babies
00:18:43have been crying for you.
00:18:45So that's the one thing
00:18:46you've got to remember.
00:18:47No problem.
00:18:49That's it, love.
00:18:49You're okay.
00:18:51Thank you, I love you.
00:18:55For many,
00:18:56it is the first time
00:18:57they have ever spoken
00:18:58of their experiences.
00:19:01Old wounds are reopened.
00:19:04Personal tragedies
00:19:05like Molly Earley's.
00:19:09I cried and cried
00:19:10and never stopped crying
00:19:11about that baby.
00:19:12See, I was lying
00:19:15in the hospital
00:19:15for ten days.
00:19:17The baby's already buried.
00:19:19I remember my dad
00:19:20bringing me down
00:19:21and showing me
00:19:22where he was buried
00:19:22and was this a tree?
00:19:24This is a slump.
00:19:25That's not
00:19:26consecrated ground.
00:19:27I don't think
00:19:27of a slump.
00:19:27That's a way
00:19:28if it's a way.
00:19:29Somebody brought us
00:19:30back and went away
00:19:31if it's.
00:19:33You don't think
00:19:34of a slump.
00:19:34I wanted him
00:19:36in the Randall's grave.
00:19:37I thought that's
00:19:37where he was going
00:19:38to go.
00:19:39And the one
00:19:39left the baby
00:19:40because he wasn't
00:19:41baptized.
00:19:42And that was it.
00:19:44Molly's son
00:19:45was buried
00:19:45in the Bark Meadows
00:19:46because of the
00:19:47Limbo Theology.
00:19:49He was born dead
00:19:50so he couldn't
00:19:51be baptized.
00:19:53Her husband, Jim,
00:19:55was the only
00:19:55family member
00:19:56present at his burial.
00:19:57Molly,
00:19:58we left our
00:19:58doggo home
00:20:00and it was
00:20:00full of water.
00:20:02He'd pull his
00:20:02arms out like that.
00:20:04Get him.
00:20:05Get him.
00:20:06And he says,
00:20:07I'm going to
00:20:07put my chaser
00:20:08in there.
00:20:08And he went
00:20:10and he took
00:20:11the north
00:20:12place
00:20:12and he put
00:20:13the chaser
00:20:13down.
00:20:15Just buried him
00:20:15on a slump.
00:20:17Just dug a hole
00:20:18and put the
00:20:20chaser down
00:20:21and that was it.
00:20:22No blessings
00:20:22or nothing.
00:20:26The deep
00:20:26sense of loss,
00:20:28grief and shame
00:20:29about the fate
00:20:30of her baby
00:20:31has never left
00:20:32Molly.
00:20:33It shouldn't have
00:20:34been like a
00:20:35but what
00:20:36the wee baby
00:20:36do nothing.
00:20:39Nothing.
00:20:41To one of
00:20:41all
00:20:42I don't
00:20:43need my
00:20:43name.
00:20:45All
00:20:45of them
00:20:45was inspired.
00:20:48Those
00:20:49things,
00:20:49those inspired
00:20:50there.
00:20:50Look at that.
00:20:53For Catholic
00:20:54parents all
00:20:55over the UK
00:20:55as well as
00:20:56Ireland,
00:20:57the stigma
00:20:58of limbo
00:20:58has cast
00:20:59a dark
00:20:59shadow.
00:21:02I was in
00:21:02labour a
00:21:03long,
00:21:03long time,
00:21:03about 30
00:21:04hours.
00:21:05Then the
00:21:06baby was
00:21:06born.
00:21:07They just
00:21:07had that
00:21:08sheet already
00:21:09and they
00:21:10just wrapped
00:21:11her up
00:21:11and took
00:21:12her straight
00:21:13out.
00:21:15They had
00:21:15to ask
00:21:16what it
00:21:17was and
00:21:18they'd
00:21:18say it
00:21:19was a
00:21:19girl.
00:21:22Only
00:21:22years later
00:21:23are parents
00:21:24like Janet
00:21:24able to
00:21:25speak about
00:21:25what happened
00:21:26and try
00:21:27to make
00:21:27sense of
00:21:28it.
00:21:30Was it
00:21:31like somebody
00:21:31dying in
00:21:32the family
00:21:33and the
00:21:33priest
00:21:33automatically
00:21:34comes
00:21:34and it
00:21:36wasn't
00:21:36treated
00:21:36like that
00:21:37at all.
00:21:37It
00:21:37wasn't
00:21:38seen as
00:21:39a loss
00:21:41in the
00:21:41family.
00:21:45Mike
00:21:45lost his
00:21:46dad quite
00:21:47early.
00:21:47He said
00:21:48about having
00:21:48the baby
00:21:49put in
00:21:49with his
00:21:50dad.
00:21:52I spoke
00:21:52to the
00:21:53priest and
00:21:53he said
00:21:54you couldn't
00:21:55have had
00:21:55that anyway
00:21:56because
00:21:57the baby
00:21:58wasn't
00:21:58baptised
00:21:59and she
00:22:00would be
00:22:00in limbo
00:22:01now until
00:22:01the end
00:22:02of time.
00:22:04I just
00:22:05found that
00:22:05very hard.
00:22:14All funerals in
00:22:16all societies
00:22:17are to help
00:22:18people move
00:22:18on and to
00:22:20structure the
00:22:21process of
00:22:21grieving.
00:22:22So if there
00:22:23isn't a funeral
00:22:23process, how
00:22:26do you structure
00:22:26it?
00:22:27There isn't
00:22:27a structure
00:22:28and then if
00:22:29you tell
00:22:29people they
00:22:30can't even
00:22:31bury their
00:22:32child in
00:22:32consecrated
00:22:33ground, that's
00:22:34destroying what
00:22:35grieving process
00:22:36there might
00:22:36naturally have
00:22:37been.
00:22:38It's really
00:22:38damaging.
00:22:43For us to
00:22:44have somewhere
00:22:45where we could
00:22:45have gone and
00:22:46just thought
00:22:47about it and
00:22:48have your
00:22:49thoughts really,
00:22:52you accept
00:22:53what they're
00:22:54telling you and
00:22:55this is what
00:22:56happens and
00:22:57you sort of go
00:22:59with the flow
00:22:59a bit really
00:23:00because you
00:23:00are in shock
00:23:01and it all
00:23:02happens very
00:23:03quickly.
00:23:06Janet has no
00:23:07idea what
00:23:08happened to her
00:23:09baby after she
00:23:09was taken away
00:23:10for burial by
00:23:11the hospital.
00:23:17I didn't have
00:23:18had any closure
00:23:19because it was
00:23:21all just from
00:23:22that moment when
00:23:22she was whisked
00:23:23away, that was
00:23:24it really, I
00:23:25sort of get on
00:23:26with it really.
00:23:29I look at it
00:23:30from her point
00:23:31of view as
00:23:32well as if we
00:23:33just disregarded
00:23:34her really.
00:23:37We tried to
00:23:38find out a few
00:23:39years after it
00:23:40all happened
00:23:41where she was
00:23:43buried and got
00:23:45in touch with
00:23:45the hospital and
00:23:47they just said
00:23:48that they only
00:23:49kept their records
00:23:50for so long.
00:23:51there's no records
00:23:53at all of it
00:23:54and so they
00:23:55couldn't tell us.
00:23:57It was a
00:23:58traumatic time,
00:23:59very traumatic
00:24:00time and you
00:24:01have people
00:24:01saying to just
00:24:02put yourself
00:24:03together but
00:24:03even now it's
00:24:05really hard.
00:24:06They think we
00:24:06don't know where
00:24:07she is.
00:24:10I think it may
00:24:11have started off
00:24:12as being
00:24:13protective but
00:24:14actually it ends
00:24:15up with the
00:24:16woman not having
00:24:17any closure
00:24:17herself and that
00:24:19mystery surrounding
00:24:20the child makes
00:24:22everything much worse
00:24:23because they're not
00:24:23able to say goodbye
00:24:24properly.
00:24:25If you've been
00:24:31brought up
00:24:32thinking that
00:24:33all the rites
00:24:34and ceremonies
00:24:35of the church
00:24:35is absolutely
00:24:36how you follow
00:24:37them and then
00:24:38you come up
00:24:39short with
00:24:40something like
00:24:40this, your
00:24:41own child is
00:24:43excluded from
00:24:44the arms of
00:24:45the church
00:24:46through no fault
00:24:46of its own,
00:24:48it must be
00:24:48devastating.
00:24:52When you first
00:24:53have a baby
00:24:54and it's born
00:24:56and put into
00:24:58your arms,
00:24:59that's yours,
00:25:00you can hold
00:25:00that tail
00:25:02but for to have
00:25:05a baby and it
00:25:06just whipped
00:25:07away from you,
00:25:08if you ask
00:25:09can I hold
00:25:10the tail
00:25:10and you're
00:25:11told no.
00:25:13In most cases
00:25:14parents had no
00:25:15say in the
00:25:16matter.
00:25:20Colette Walsh's
00:25:21baby went full
00:25:22term before being
00:25:23stillborn, she
00:25:25never got the
00:25:26opportunity for
00:25:26closure.
00:25:30That was like
00:25:31hail.
00:25:34It was terrible
00:25:35the way you were
00:25:36treated.
00:25:38And just told to
00:25:39go home and
00:25:40forget about it.
00:25:42It wasn't a net,
00:25:44it was a child,
00:25:45it was my son.
00:25:46And nobody knows
00:25:49what it's like
00:25:50only a mother.
00:25:54It took 40
00:25:55years for
00:25:56Colette to find
00:25:56her son.
00:25:59He was in the
00:26:00mass grave
00:26:00close to the
00:26:01fence at the
00:26:02back of
00:26:02Miltown
00:26:03Cemetery
00:26:03in Belfast.
00:26:07I wanted to
00:26:08bury him.
00:26:11He could have
00:26:12been buried
00:26:12with my
00:26:12granda,
00:26:13my grandma.
00:26:16I have
00:26:17relations all
00:26:17up in
00:26:18Miltown
00:26:18Cemetery
00:26:19where he
00:26:20could have
00:26:20been buried
00:26:20and to me
00:26:22she'd have
00:26:22been buried.
00:26:23We should have
00:26:23had that
00:26:24opportunity
00:26:24to bury
00:26:27our own
00:26:27children.
00:26:27So I
00:26:35wanted to
00:26:36still
00:26:40love to
00:26:41hold him.
00:26:47The
00:26:48Pope is
00:26:48just
00:26:48emerging
00:26:49from
00:26:49the
00:26:49bronze
00:26:49door
00:26:50and you
00:26:50can see
00:26:51the
00:26:51flags
00:26:52and
00:26:52handcuffs
00:26:52going up
00:26:53in the
00:26:53air.
00:26:54By the
00:26:55time
00:26:55Colette's
00:26:55baby
00:26:56was
00:26:56born
00:26:56attitudes
00:26:57towards
00:26:58limbo
00:26:58had
00:26:59actually
00:26:59begun
00:26:59to
00:26:59soften.
00:27:01This
00:27:01was
00:27:02because
00:27:02of
00:27:02Vatican
00:27:02II.
00:27:07The
00:27:08largest
00:27:08council
00:27:09of the
00:27:09Catholic
00:27:09Church
00:27:10ever
00:27:10convened.
00:27:11It
00:27:12kick-started
00:27:12major
00:27:13reform.
00:27:15The
00:27:15Church
00:27:16today
00:27:16chooses
00:27:16mercy
00:27:17rather
00:27:18than
00:27:18severity.
00:27:19She
00:27:19meets
00:27:20the
00:27:20need
00:27:20of
00:27:20the
00:27:20time
00:27:21by
00:27:21showing
00:27:21the
00:27:21validity
00:27:22of
00:27:22her
00:27:22teaching
00:27:23rather
00:27:24than
00:27:24by
00:27:24condemnation.
00:27:25Limbo
00:27:26wasn't
00:27:26directly
00:27:27addressed
00:27:27and
00:27:28the
00:27:28emphasis
00:27:28on
00:27:29baptism
00:27:29never
00:27:30lessened.
00:27:32But
00:27:32the
00:27:32Church
00:27:33began
00:27:33to
00:27:34relax
00:27:34its
00:27:34rules.
00:27:36Eventually
00:27:37it
00:27:38introduced
00:27:38a
00:27:38funeral
00:27:39rite
00:27:39for the
00:27:40unbaptized,
00:27:41though it
00:27:42still
00:27:42differed
00:27:43from that
00:27:43for the
00:27:43baptized.
00:27:46The
00:27:47main
00:27:47teaching
00:27:48remained
00:27:48you
00:27:49must
00:27:50be
00:27:50baptized
00:27:50to
00:27:51enter
00:27:51heaven.
00:27:52Jesus
00:27:53teaches
00:27:54very
00:27:54clearly
00:27:54that
00:27:54baptism
00:27:55is
00:27:55necessary
00:27:56in
00:27:56order
00:27:57to
00:27:57have
00:27:57the
00:27:57vision
00:27:58of
00:27:58God
00:27:58to
00:27:58attain
00:27:59to
00:27:59heaven
00:28:00and
00:28:00the
00:28:00next
00:28:00life.
00:28:03The
00:28:04baptism
00:28:04was
00:28:04necessary
00:28:05because
00:28:05humanity
00:28:06had
00:28:07fallen
00:28:07away
00:28:08from
00:28:08God.
00:28:09There
00:28:09was
00:28:09the
00:28:09fall
00:28:10where
00:28:10we
00:28:10often
00:28:11speak
00:28:11about
00:28:11original
00:28:11sin.
00:28:13So
00:28:13that
00:28:14everybody
00:28:14was born
00:28:15with
00:28:15original
00:28:15sin,
00:28:16baptism
00:28:16corrects
00:28:17that
00:28:18and
00:28:18baptism
00:28:18then
00:28:19becomes
00:28:19the
00:28:19gateway
00:28:20to
00:28:20everlasting
00:28:21life
00:28:21and
00:28:22the
00:28:22vision
00:28:22of
00:28:22God.
00:28:27Baptism
00:28:28is the
00:28:28only
00:28:29thing
00:28:29that
00:28:29relieves
00:28:30the
00:28:30soul
00:28:30of
00:28:31the
00:28:31original
00:28:31sin.
00:28:32It
00:28:32is
00:28:33entirely
00:28:33connected
00:28:34to
00:28:34Catholic
00:28:35deep
00:28:36deep
00:28:36Catholic
00:28:37beliefs
00:28:37in
00:28:37sin
00:28:38and
00:28:40sacraments.
00:28:43The
00:28:44Lord
00:28:44is a
00:28:44faithful
00:28:44God
00:28:45who
00:28:46created
00:28:46us
00:28:46all
00:28:47after
00:28:47his
00:28:48own
00:28:48image.
00:28:50All
00:28:50things
00:28:51are
00:28:51of
00:28:52his
00:28:52making.
00:28:53All
00:28:53creation
00:28:54The
00:28:54Most
00:28:55Reverend
00:28:55Noel
00:28:55Traynor
00:28:56is the
00:28:56bishop
00:28:56of the
00:28:57Roman
00:28:57Catholic
00:28:58Diocese
00:28:58of
00:28:58Down
00:28:59and
00:28:59Conner.
00:29:00This
00:29:00includes
00:29:01Milltown
00:29:01Cemetery
00:29:02where
00:29:03Colette,
00:29:03Donna
00:29:04and the
00:29:04other
00:29:04parents
00:29:05have been
00:29:06protesting
00:29:06on a
00:29:06weekly
00:29:07basis
00:29:07for the
00:29:08return
00:29:09of the
00:29:09sown
00:29:09land.
00:29:13The
00:29:13church
00:29:14is
00:29:14desirous
00:29:14and
00:29:15happy
00:29:15to
00:29:16undo
00:29:17any
00:29:17errors
00:29:18to
00:29:19honour
00:29:19the
00:29:20memory
00:29:20of
00:29:20these
00:29:20children,
00:29:22to
00:29:22recognise
00:29:23the
00:29:23grief
00:29:23of
00:29:24the
00:29:24parents
00:29:24not
00:29:24only
00:29:25in
00:29:25the
00:29:25loss
00:29:25of
00:29:25their
00:29:25children
00:29:26but
00:29:26in
00:29:27their
00:29:27sense
00:29:27of
00:29:27the
00:29:28neglect
00:29:28of
00:29:28those
00:29:28children
00:29:29by
00:29:29the
00:29:30community
00:29:30by
00:29:30the
00:29:31church.
00:29:34The
00:29:35bishop
00:29:35has sent
00:29:36his aid
00:29:36retired
00:29:37solicitor
00:29:38Brian
00:29:38Gibson
00:29:38to
00:29:39liaise
00:29:40with
00:29:40the
00:29:40protesting
00:29:40relatives.
00:29:41We
00:29:42shouldn't
00:29:42have
00:29:43given
00:29:43burial
00:29:43places
00:29:44away.
00:29:45Of
00:29:45course
00:29:45we
00:29:45shouldn't.
00:29:46What's
00:29:47important
00:29:47is that
00:29:47we
00:29:48put
00:29:48that
00:29:48mistake
00:29:49right.
00:29:50That
00:29:51is
00:29:51desperately
00:29:51important.
00:29:53And
00:29:54we
00:29:54have
00:29:54to
00:29:54respect
00:29:54that
00:29:55ground
00:29:55and
00:29:56those
00:29:56graves.
00:29:57And
00:29:58we're
00:29:58going
00:29:58to
00:29:58do
00:29:58that.
00:29:59We're
00:29:59going
00:29:59to
00:29:59do
00:30:00it
00:30:00in
00:30:00a
00:30:00dignified
00:30:00way
00:30:01and
00:30:02a
00:30:02sensitive
00:30:03way.
00:30:07A
00:30:08mistake
00:30:08has
00:30:08been
00:30:08made
00:30:08albeit
00:30:09innocently
00:30:09but
00:30:11it's
00:30:11a
00:30:11mistake
00:30:11it
00:30:12has
00:30:12had
00:30:12a
00:30:12dramatic
00:30:12effect
00:30:13on
00:30:13a
00:30:13lot
00:30:13of
00:30:13people's
00:30:13lives
00:30:14and
00:30:14awful
00:30:14people's
00:30:15lives
00:30:15for which
00:30:15I
00:30:16think
00:30:16quite rightly
00:30:17they're
00:30:17holding
00:30:17those
00:30:17chairs
00:30:17responsible.
00:30:21While
00:30:21they
00:30:21wait
00:30:22for
00:30:22the
00:30:22issue
00:30:22of
00:30:22the
00:30:22land
00:30:23to
00:30:23be
00:30:23resolved
00:30:24the
00:30:24families
00:30:25turn
00:30:25their
00:30:25attention
00:30:26to
00:30:26the
00:30:26fence
00:30:27which
00:30:27divides
00:30:28the
00:30:28cemetery
00:30:29from
00:30:29the
00:30:29mass
00:30:29burial
00:30:30area
00:30:30now
00:30:31in
00:30:31the
00:30:31bog
00:30:31meadows.
00:30:34They
00:30:34want
00:30:34it
00:30:35removed
00:30:35by
00:30:35Christmas
00:30:36so
00:30:37they
00:30:37can
00:30:41this
00:30:44is
00:30:44how
00:30:44I
00:30:44see
00:30:44it
00:30:45they
00:30:45agree
00:30:46you
00:30:46agree
00:30:46so
00:30:47then
00:30:48it
00:30:48should
00:30:48be
00:30:48done
00:30:48and
00:30:49that's
00:30:49how
00:30:49simple
00:30:50it
00:30:50is
00:30:50to
00:30:50me
00:30:50I
00:30:53know
00:30:53that's
00:30:53difficult
00:30:54to be
00:30:54in a
00:30:55circumstances
00:30:55and I
00:30:56can
00:30:56fully
00:30:56appreciate
00:30:57why
00:30:58you
00:30:58want
00:30:58to
00:30:58get
00:30:58this
00:30:58done
00:30:59right
00:30:59a
00:31:03fence
00:31:07like
00:31:07that
00:31:08feels
00:31:08like
00:31:08the
00:31:08Berlin
00:31:09wall
00:31:09and
00:31:09if
00:31:10you're
00:31:10on
00:31:10the
00:31:10other
00:31:10side
00:31:11of
00:31:11it
00:31:11you're
00:31:11excluded
00:31:12from
00:31:12the
00:31:12community
00:31:12on
00:31:13this
00:31:14side
00:31:14of
00:31:14it
00:31:14it's
00:31:15a
00:31:15way
00:31:15of
00:31:16saying
00:31:16that
00:31:16those
00:31:16babies
00:31:17are
00:31:17not
00:31:17human
00:31:18beings
00:31:18whether
00:31:21they
00:31:21died
00:31:21at
00:31:21birth
00:31:22or
00:31:22whether
00:31:22they
00:31:22died
00:31:22soon
00:31:23afterwards
00:31:23whether
00:31:24they
00:31:24breathed
00:31:24or not
00:31:25they're
00:31:25still
00:31:26human
00:31:26it's
00:31:28a
00:31:28very cruel
00:31:28exclusion
00:31:29and it's
00:31:30cruel
00:31:30for the
00:31:30mother
00:31:30as well
00:31:31as
00:31:31for
00:31:31the
00:31:31child
00:31:32by
00:31:40by
00:31:40by
00:31:40by
00:31:40December
00:31:41despite
00:31:42weekly
00:31:42meetings
00:31:43and
00:31:43protests
00:31:44for health
00:31:45and safety
00:31:45reasons
00:31:46the fence
00:31:46remains in
00:31:47place
00:31:48I was
00:31:59hoping
00:32:00today
00:32:00would
00:32:00not
00:32:01think
00:32:01I
00:32:02was
00:32:02but
00:32:02it
00:32:04means
00:32:04I
00:32:04could
00:32:04finally
00:32:05pop
00:32:05flowers
00:32:05from
00:32:07my
00:32:07brother
00:32:07the
00:32:09fence
00:32:09was
00:32:09broken
00:32:10down
00:32:10instead
00:32:10of
00:32:11leaving
00:32:11it
00:32:11because
00:32:11they're
00:32:12supposed
00:32:12to be
00:32:12removing
00:32:12it
00:32:13they put
00:32:13a
00:32:13brand
00:32:14new
00:32:14fence
00:32:14up
00:32:14so
00:32:15there's
00:32:16now
00:32:16two
00:32:16fences
00:32:17then
00:32:17there's
00:32:18the
00:32:18trees
00:32:18which
00:32:18is
00:32:19the
00:32:19third
00:32:19and
00:32:21then
00:32:21they
00:32:21block
00:32:22it
00:32:22with
00:32:22cars
00:32:22so
00:32:23you
00:32:23have
00:32:23to
00:32:23climb
00:32:24to
00:32:24come
00:32:24down
00:32:24here
00:32:25so
00:32:26how many
00:32:27more fences
00:32:28are they
00:32:28going to
00:32:28put up
00:32:29but the
00:32:32church gets
00:32:32permission
00:32:33from the
00:32:33Oster
00:32:34Wildlife
00:32:34Trust
00:32:34to bless
00:32:35the land
00:32:35beyond
00:32:36the
00:32:36fence
00:32:36it also
00:32:38holds a
00:32:38prayer
00:32:38service
00:32:39for the
00:32:39families
00:32:40and
00:32:54now
00:32:55we
00:32:55lay
00:32:55a
00:32:55wreath
00:32:56in
00:32:56memory
00:32:56of
00:32:57all
00:32:57those
00:32:58who
00:32:58are
00:32:58buried
00:32:58here
00:32:59those
00:33:00whose
00:33:01parents
00:33:01are
00:33:01unable
00:33:01to
00:33:02be
00:33:02here
00:33:02and
00:33:03for
00:33:03all
00:33:03those
00:33:03who
00:33:04people
00:33:05may
00:33:05have
00:33:05forgotten
00:33:06the
00:33:08church
00:33:09has
00:33:09invited
00:33:09Tony
00:33:10Maguire
00:33:10to
00:33:10assist
00:33:11with
00:33:11the
00:33:11situation
00:33:12at
00:33:12Miltown
00:33:12she's
00:33:17agreed
00:33:18to
00:33:18liaise
00:33:18with
00:33:19the
00:33:19protesters
00:33:19and
00:33:20advise
00:33:20them
00:33:21on
00:33:21how
00:33:21they
00:33:21can
00:33:21find
00:33:22proof
00:33:22of
00:33:23where
00:33:23their
00:33:23relatives
00:33:23are
00:33:24buried
00:33:24Tony
00:33:27intends
00:33:28to
00:33:28use
00:33:28the
00:33:28burial
00:33:29records
00:33:29at
00:33:29Miltown
00:33:30to
00:33:30determine
00:33:31the
00:33:31extent
00:33:32of
00:33:32the
00:33:32grave
00:33:32area
00:33:33the
00:33:35records
00:33:35so
00:33:36far
00:33:36are
00:33:36producing
00:33:37anything
00:33:37from
00:33:38567
00:33:40in a
00:33:41grave
00:33:41up to
00:33:42hundreds
00:33:42in a
00:33:43grave
00:33:43and
00:33:44these
00:33:44would
00:33:44have
00:33:45been
00:33:45not
00:33:45one
00:33:45single
00:33:46adult
00:33:46sized
00:33:46burial
00:33:47these
00:33:47would
00:33:47have
00:33:48been
00:33:48large
00:33:48mass
00:33:49graves
00:33:50some
00:33:53of
00:33:53the
00:33:53relatives
00:33:54have
00:33:54come
00:33:54to
00:33:54the
00:33:54office
00:33:55at
00:33:55Miltown
00:33:55to
00:33:56discover
00:33:56what
00:33:57is
00:33:57actually
00:33:57recorded
00:33:58about
00:33:58their
00:33:59loved
00:33:59ones
00:33:59the
00:34:16records
00:34:17show
00:34:17the
00:34:17area
00:34:18does
00:34:18hold
00:34:19stillborn
00:34:19infants
00:34:20but
00:34:21there
00:34:21are
00:34:21also
00:34:21other
00:34:22babies
00:34:22children
00:34:23and
00:34:23adults
00:34:24buried
00:34:24there
00:34:25people
00:34:26who
00:34:26their
00:34:26relatives
00:34:27say
00:34:27were
00:34:27certainly
00:34:28baptised
00:34:29there
00:34:30is
00:34:31now
00:34:31confusion
00:34:31as to
00:34:32whether
00:34:32the
00:34:32ground
00:34:33was
00:34:33consecrated
00:34:34or
00:34:34not
00:34:34for
00:34:41the
00:34:41parents
00:34:42who
00:34:42have
00:34:42found
00:34:43grave
00:34:43numbers
00:34:44the
00:34:44challenge
00:34:45now
00:34:45is to
00:34:45find
00:34:46out
00:34:46where
00:34:46their
00:34:47loved
00:34:47ones
00:34:47actually
00:34:48lie
00:34:48what
00:34:48what
00:34:48does
00:34:48the
00:34:49same
00:34:49name
00:34:49no
00:34:50gold
00:34:51seems
00:34:52to
00:34:52be
00:34:52in
00:34:53with
00:34:53your
00:34:53brother
00:34:53yeah
00:34:5577
00:34:5977
00:35:0077
00:35:01in the
00:35:02grave
00:35:02that's the way
00:35:03they're done
00:35:03it then
00:35:04love
00:35:04there's
00:35:04some
00:35:04graves
00:35:05might have
00:35:05a hundred
00:35:06in them
00:35:06yes
00:35:07love
00:35:08they're
00:35:08mass
00:35:09it's
00:35:10mass
00:35:10love
00:35:11so it
00:35:11is
00:35:12you can't
00:35:14get into
00:35:15it
00:35:15but you
00:35:16can
00:35:16stand
00:35:16in
00:35:16the
00:35:16chain
00:35:17look
00:35:17in
00:35:17it's
00:35:18all
00:35:19a
00:35:19mass
00:35:20grave
00:35:20love
00:35:20yeah
00:35:21it's
00:35:22like a
00:35:22dump
00:35:22yeah
00:35:23it is
00:35:24it's
00:35:24like a
00:35:25dump
00:35:25yeah
00:35:29so just
00:35:30inside
00:35:30that
00:35:31fence
00:35:31is
00:35:31where
00:35:31it is
00:35:34yeah
00:35:34that's
00:35:34where
00:35:34she
00:35:35is
00:35:35now
00:35:35what would
00:35:38you like
00:35:39to hear
00:35:39your
00:35:39chambers
00:35:40in
00:35:40there
00:35:40it's
00:35:45very
00:35:45important
00:35:45to me
00:35:46to do
00:35:46this
00:35:47and mark
00:35:47them
00:35:47in
00:35:47some
00:35:48way
00:35:48it's
00:35:48important
00:35:49to
00:35:49raise
00:35:49the
00:35:49profile
00:35:50of
00:35:50the
00:35:50sites
00:35:50and
00:35:51the
00:35:51events
00:35:51you
00:35:52are
00:35:52buried
00:35:53here
00:35:53as the
00:35:55protests
00:35:55go on
00:35:56locating
00:35:57the grave
00:35:57areas
00:35:58becomes
00:35:59an
00:35:59almost
00:35:59daily
00:36:00event
00:36:00for
00:36:00Donna
00:36:01and
00:36:01Tony
00:36:01I
00:36:04know
00:36:04fully
00:36:04what the
00:36:05parents
00:36:05are going
00:36:05through
00:36:06I
00:36:06have
00:36:07dealt
00:36:07with
00:36:08investigating
00:36:08this
00:36:08type
00:36:09of
00:36:09site
00:36:09for
00:36:09four
00:36:10and
00:36:10a
00:36:10half
00:36:10years
00:36:10now
00:36:11I
00:36:11have
00:36:12spoken
00:36:12to
00:36:12many
00:36:12parents
00:36:13and I
00:36:14get
00:36:14the
00:36:14same
00:36:14issues
00:36:15raised
00:36:16over
00:36:16and
00:36:17over
00:36:17again
00:36:18the
00:36:18lack
00:36:19of
00:36:19closure
00:36:19not
00:36:20knowing
00:36:21where
00:36:21exactly
00:36:22the
00:36:22infants
00:36:22are
00:36:22buried
00:36:23the
00:36:24pain
00:36:24and
00:36:24suffering
00:36:25of
00:36:25parents
00:36:26over
00:36:26many
00:36:27many
00:36:27years
00:36:28parents
00:36:29never
00:36:29forget
00:36:30but there
00:36:36is
00:36:36another
00:36:36much
00:36:37more
00:36:37personal
00:36:38reason
00:36:38for
00:36:39Tony's
00:36:39work
00:36:40I
00:36:44have
00:36:45had
00:36:45three
00:36:46infants
00:36:46who
00:36:47didn't
00:36:47survive
00:36:48my
00:36:49babies
00:36:49didn't
00:36:50reach
00:36:50full
00:36:50time
00:36:51they
00:36:52were
00:36:52miscarried
00:36:53and
00:36:54I
00:36:55never
00:36:55saw
00:36:55them
00:36:56I
00:36:56never
00:36:57was
00:36:57able
00:36:58to
00:36:58find
00:36:58out
00:36:58what
00:36:58happened
00:36:59to
00:36:59them
00:36:59they
00:37:00were
00:37:00certainly
00:37:00taken
00:37:00away
00:37:01and
00:37:02that
00:37:02was
00:37:02it
00:37:03and
00:37:03I
00:37:03have
00:37:04no
00:37:04place
00:37:04to
00:37:04put
00:37:05anything
00:37:05for
00:37:05them
00:37:06I
00:37:07just
00:37:07have
00:37:07no
00:37:07other
00:37:08focus
00:37:08to
00:37:09put
00:37:09there
00:37:09with
00:37:09and
00:37:10this
00:37:10is
00:37:10my
00:37:11Christmas
00:37:12offering
00:37:12to
00:37:12my
00:37:13babies
00:37:13as
00:37:14well
00:37:14as
00:37:14the
00:37:14other
00:37:14babies
00:37:14that
00:37:15are
00:37:15here
00:37:15if
00:37:20you
00:37:20don't
00:37:21make
00:37:21the
00:37:21effort
00:37:21if
00:37:22you
00:37:22don't
00:37:22identify
00:37:23the
00:37:23sites
00:37:24people
00:37:27out there
00:37:27suffer
00:37:27in
00:37:27silence
00:37:28from
00:37:31the
00:37:31studies
00:37:32she's
00:37:32conducted
00:37:33at
00:37:33milltown
00:37:33Tony
00:37:34suspects
00:37:35that
00:37:36as
00:37:36well
00:37:36as
00:37:36the
00:37:36burials
00:37:37done
00:37:37by
00:37:37the
00:37:37cemetery
00:37:38in
00:37:38the
00:37:38bog
00:37:38meadows
00:37:39area
00:37:39there
00:37:40are
00:37:40also
00:37:41killing
00:37:41burials
00:37:42conducted
00:37:43in
00:37:43secret
00:37:44by
00:37:45grief
00:37:45stricken
00:37:45parents
00:37:46the
00:37:50record
00:37:50books
00:37:51at the
00:37:51cemetery
00:37:51say
00:37:52there are
00:37:53approximately
00:37:5311,000
00:37:55what is
00:37:57not taken
00:37:57into a
00:37:58kite
00:37:58is also
00:37:59the
00:38:00burials
00:38:00that would
00:38:01have been
00:38:01what I
00:38:02would have
00:38:02classed as
00:38:03the
00:38:03clean
00:38:04burials
00:38:04proper
00:38:05these
00:38:06are
00:38:06burials
00:38:06where
00:38:07members of
00:38:08family were
00:38:08coming in
00:38:09at night
00:38:09they were
00:38:10burying
00:38:10an infant
00:38:11who had
00:38:11been
00:38:12stillborn
00:38:12maybe at
00:38:12a home
00:38:13birth
00:38:13there is
00:38:14no record
00:38:15of the
00:38:15burial
00:38:15there is
00:38:16no marker
00:38:17on the
00:38:17burial
00:38:17or very
00:38:18little
00:38:18and they're
00:38:19just
00:38:19lost
00:38:20this
00:38:23this
00:38:23presents
00:38:23an
00:38:23additional
00:38:24problem
00:38:24while
00:38:25there are
00:38:26records
00:38:26for the
00:38:26burials
00:38:27carried out
00:38:27by the
00:38:28cemetery
00:38:28the lack
00:38:29of any
00:38:30record
00:38:30for the
00:38:31killing
00:38:31burials
00:38:32means they
00:38:33don't know
00:38:33the extent
00:38:34of the
00:38:34area
00:38:35in which
00:38:35bodies
00:38:35are buried
00:38:36the only
00:38:38way of
00:38:38finding out
00:38:39is to
00:38:40conduct
00:38:40a scientific
00:38:41survey
00:38:42this
00:38:43area
00:38:44here
00:38:45is
00:38:47actually
00:38:47the
00:38:48area
00:38:48where
00:38:48the
00:38:48majority
00:38:49of
00:38:50the
00:38:50babies
00:38:51are
00:38:51buried
00:38:52you can
00:38:54clearly
00:38:54mark out
00:38:55roughly
00:38:55your
00:38:56boundary
00:38:56down
00:38:56to
00:38:57there
00:38:57and
00:38:58your
00:38:58boundary
00:38:58comes
00:38:59up
00:38:59and
00:38:59you
00:38:59can
00:38:59see
00:39:00it
00:39:00right
00:39:00round
00:39:00for
00:39:01the
00:39:01survey
00:39:01to
00:39:02take
00:39:02place
00:39:02the
00:39:03Auster
00:39:03Wildlife
00:39:04Trust
00:39:04needs
00:39:05to give
00:39:05its
00:39:05permission
00:39:06you can
00:39:07basically
00:39:07have
00:39:08burials
00:39:08throughout
00:39:09the
00:39:09bog
00:39:09meadow
00:39:10just
00:39:11random
00:39:11burials
00:39:12all
00:39:12over
00:39:12the
00:39:12place
00:39:13and
00:39:13you're
00:39:13never
00:39:14going
00:39:14to
00:39:14find
00:39:14more
00:39:14you're
00:39:15just
00:39:15not
00:39:15going
00:39:15to
00:39:16find
00:39:16more
00:39:16my
00:39:17problem
00:39:18is
00:39:18because
00:39:18these
00:39:19no
00:39:20knowledge
00:39:21at all
00:39:22the idea
00:39:22was to get
00:39:23the infants
00:39:23as close
00:39:24as possible
00:39:25to consecrated
00:39:25ground
00:39:26but without
00:39:26putting them
00:39:27in consecrated
00:39:28ground
00:39:28now the
00:39:31problem
00:39:31with the
00:39:32trees
00:39:32is when
00:39:32the trees
00:39:33are being
00:39:34removed
00:39:34my concern
00:39:36is that if
00:39:37you have
00:39:37shallow
00:39:37burials
00:39:38there
00:39:38depending
00:39:40on the
00:39:40preservation
00:39:40may not
00:39:41be
00:39:42anything
00:39:42there
00:39:42to
00:39:42see
00:39:42but
00:39:43there
00:39:43is
00:39:43a
00:39:43possibility
00:39:44that
00:39:45removing
00:39:46the
00:39:46trees
00:39:46could
00:39:47bring
00:39:47some
00:39:48remains
00:39:48to
00:39:49the
00:39:49surface
00:39:49yeah
00:39:50well we
00:39:51discussed
00:39:51that
00:39:51yeah
00:39:52so that's
00:39:53that's an
00:39:54issue
00:39:54and that's
00:39:54something
00:39:54has to
00:39:55maybe be
00:39:55looked at
00:39:56very
00:39:56carefully
00:39:57the
00:40:00the
00:40:00trust
00:40:00agrees
00:40:01to
00:40:01the
00:40:01survey
00:40:02so
00:40:02forensic
00:40:03archaeologists
00:40:04and a
00:40:04team
00:40:05of
00:40:05cadaver
00:40:05dogs
00:40:06arrive at
00:40:07the
00:40:07bog
00:40:07meadows
00:40:07it's
00:40:11very
00:40:11important
00:40:12that the
00:40:13work
00:40:13that's
00:40:13going
00:40:13on
00:40:14here
00:40:14is
00:40:15a
00:40:16pilot
00:40:16for
00:40:17what
00:40:17can
00:40:17happen
00:40:18elsewhere
00:40:18perhaps
00:40:20on a
00:40:20much
00:40:20smaller
00:40:21scale
00:40:21elsewhere
00:40:22milltown
00:40:22is a
00:40:23very
00:40:23large
00:40:23site
00:40:23but
00:40:24there
00:40:24are
00:40:24a
00:40:25number
00:40:25of
00:40:25sites
00:40:25small
00:40:26and
00:40:26large
00:40:27which
00:40:27equally
00:40:27need
00:40:28the
00:40:28same
00:40:28attention
00:40:29but
00:40:30even
00:40:30scientific
00:40:31proof
00:40:32will not
00:40:32reunite
00:40:33families
00:40:34it's
00:40:37difficult
00:40:37to obtain
00:40:37permission
00:40:38for
00:40:38infants
00:40:39in
00:40:39mass
00:40:39burial
00:40:39grounds
00:40:40to be
00:40:41exhumed
00:40:41and
00:40:42reburied
00:40:42with
00:40:43relatives
00:40:43so
00:40:46the
00:40:46physical
00:40:46separation
00:40:47is
00:40:47most
00:40:48often
00:40:49final
00:40:49because
00:40:52you
00:40:52couldn't
00:40:52bury
00:40:53the
00:40:53child
00:40:53in
00:40:53the
00:40:53same
00:40:53place
00:40:54as
00:40:54the
00:40:54rest
00:40:54of
00:40:54the
00:40:54family
00:40:55members
00:40:55this
00:40:56created
00:40:56the
00:40:56division
00:40:57and
00:40:57it
00:40:57created
00:40:58the
00:40:58distress
00:40:58obviously
00:40:59also
00:40:59for
00:41:00people
00:41:00but
00:41:01the
00:41:01distress
00:41:02was
00:41:02also
00:41:02about
00:41:03the
00:41:03fact
00:41:03that
00:41:04the
00:41:04child
00:41:04would
00:41:05be
00:41:05forever
00:41:05separate
00:41:06they
00:41:08would
00:41:08never
00:41:08ever
00:41:09in
00:41:09the
00:41:09whole
00:41:09eternity
00:41:10of
00:41:10the
00:41:10world
00:41:11be
00:41:12reunited
00:41:12and
00:41:13that
00:41:13was
00:41:13the
00:41:13heartbreak
00:41:14that
00:41:14forever
00:41:15this
00:41:15child
00:41:15was
00:41:16lost
00:41:16since
00:41:23Vatican
00:41:232
00:41:23there
00:41:24has
00:41:24been
00:41:25considerable
00:41:25unease
00:41:26over
00:41:27reconciling
00:41:28a
00:41:28loving
00:41:28god
00:41:28with
00:41:29one
00:41:29who
00:41:29sent
00:41:30babies
00:41:30to
00:41:30limbo
00:41:31an
00:41:32international
00:41:32commission
00:41:33of
00:41:33theologians
00:41:34completing
00:41:34its
00:41:35work
00:41:35at
00:41:35the
00:41:35Vatican
00:41:35today
00:41:36is
00:41:36expected
00:41:37to
00:41:37advise
00:41:37Pope
00:41:38Benedict
00:41:38to
00:41:38abandon
00:41:39the
00:41:39concept
00:41:40of
00:41:40limbo
00:41:41the
00:41:41Pope
00:41:41seems
00:41:42likely
00:41:42to
00:41:42agree
00:41:43he
00:41:43said
00:41:44before
00:41:44that
00:41:44it's
00:41:44never
00:41:45been
00:41:45a
00:41:45doctrine
00:41:46of
00:41:46the
00:41:46church
00:41:46rather
00:41:47a
00:41:47theological
00:41:48hypothesis
00:41:49in
00:41:582007
00:41:59the
00:42:00international
00:42:00theological
00:42:01commission
00:42:02including
00:42:03Father
00:42:03Norris
00:42:03concluded
00:42:04its
00:42:05deliberations
00:42:06it was
00:42:09really a
00:42:10question
00:42:10that came
00:42:11from
00:42:11the people
00:42:12of God
00:42:13you know
00:42:13from
00:42:13the families
00:42:14and
00:42:16deeply felt
00:42:17then by
00:42:18their shepherds
00:42:19their pastors
00:42:20parish priests
00:42:20bishops
00:42:21all the
00:42:22way to
00:42:22the
00:42:22Pope
00:42:23and
00:42:23he
00:42:23says
00:42:23look
00:42:23you
00:42:24theologians
00:42:24now
00:42:25get
00:42:25working
00:42:26on
00:42:26this
00:42:26one
00:42:26look
00:42:27at
00:42:27this
00:42:27because
00:42:28this
00:42:29is a
00:42:29vital
00:42:30question
00:42:30that
00:42:30people
00:42:30feel
00:42:31we
00:42:32have
00:42:32great
00:42:33reasons
00:42:33to
00:42:34hope
00:42:34that
00:42:35in
00:42:35fact
00:42:35the
00:42:36unbaptized
00:42:37children
00:42:37are
00:42:38in
00:42:38fact
00:42:39reached
00:42:39by
00:42:39grace
00:42:39and
00:42:40are
00:42:40saved
00:42:41but
00:42:41to
00:42:42still
00:42:42hope
00:42:43and
00:42:43it
00:42:43also
00:42:44says
00:42:44at
00:42:44the
00:42:44same
00:42:44time
00:42:45this
00:42:45should
00:42:45in
00:42:46no
00:42:46way
00:42:46lead
00:42:47people
00:42:48to
00:42:48postponing
00:42:49baptism
00:42:50or
00:42:50becoming
00:42:50careless
00:42:51about
00:42:51it
00:42:51because
00:42:52the
00:42:53beauty
00:42:53of
00:42:53baptism
00:42:54is
00:42:54that
00:42:54it's
00:42:55a
00:42:55clear
00:42:55teaching
00:42:55of
00:42:56our
00:42:56Lord
00:42:56it's
00:42:57the
00:42:57practice
00:42:58of
00:42:58the
00:42:58church
00:42:59and
00:43:00the
00:43:00sacrament
00:43:00puts
00:43:01us
00:43:01into
00:43:01the
00:43:02grace
00:43:02of
00:43:02God
00:43:03and
00:43:03grace
00:43:04is
00:43:04of
00:43:04course
00:43:05the
00:43:05passport
00:43:06into
00:43:07everlasting
00:43:08life
00:43:08while
00:43:14the
00:43:14church
00:43:15still
00:43:15upheld
00:43:15the
00:43:15concept
00:43:16of
00:43:16limbo
00:43:17and
00:43:17the
00:43:17urgent
00:43:18need
00:43:18for
00:43:18baptism
00:43:18its
00:43:19priests
00:43:20were
00:43:20now
00:43:20able
00:43:21to
00:43:21bless
00:43:21limbo
00:43:22graves
00:43:22and
00:43:23bury
00:43:23unbaptized
00:43:24babies
00:43:25in
00:43:25consecrated
00:43:26ground
00:43:26this
00:43:27was
00:43:28seen
00:43:28as
00:43:28a
00:43:28significant
00:43:29shift
00:43:29in
00:43:30church
00:43:30policy
00:43:30Moville
00:43:34on
00:43:34the
00:43:34Inishoan
00:43:35peninsula
00:43:35in
00:43:36Donegal
00:43:36is
00:43:37one
00:43:37of
00:43:37the
00:43:37most
00:43:37remote
00:43:38places
00:43:38in
00:43:38Ireland
00:43:39Father
00:43:40O'Kane
00:43:41is
00:43:41its
00:43:41parish
00:43:42priest
00:43:42have
00:43:43decided
00:43:44to
00:43:44bless
00:43:45these
00:43:45little
00:43:46plots
00:43:46throughout
00:43:47the
00:43:48parish
00:43:49where
00:43:49babies
00:43:50had
00:43:50been
00:43:50buried
00:43:51because
00:43:52they
00:43:52died
00:43:52before
00:43:52baptism
00:43:53and as
00:43:56we remember
00:43:56the fact
00:43:57that their
00:43:57bodies
00:43:57were
00:43:58crowded
00:43:58to the
00:43:58earth
00:43:58in this
00:44:00area
00:44:00the people
00:44:01would have
00:44:02taken
00:44:02those
00:44:02little
00:44:03dead
00:44:03babies
00:44:03and buried
00:44:04them
00:44:04in
00:44:04ditches
00:44:05wanting
00:44:06them
00:44:06to be
00:44:07as
00:44:07near
00:44:07consecrated
00:44:08ground
00:44:08as
00:44:08possible
00:44:09and
00:44:10they
00:44:10rejoice
00:44:11with
00:44:12you
00:44:12and
00:44:13with
00:44:13your
00:44:13sins
00:44:13forever
00:44:13through
00:44:14Christ
00:44:15our
00:44:15Lord
00:44:15the
00:44:20people
00:44:20had a
00:44:20sense
00:44:20that
00:44:21places
00:44:21of
00:44:21exceptional
00:44:22beauty
00:44:22were
00:44:22touched
00:44:22with
00:44:23God
00:44:23and
00:44:23were
00:44:23holy
00:44:25in
00:44:26that
00:44:26regard
00:44:26we
00:44:34ask
00:44:34you
00:44:34to
00:44:34hear
00:44:34the
00:44:34prayers
00:44:35of
00:44:35all
00:44:35to
00:44:35cry
00:44:35out
00:44:35to
00:44:36your
00:44:36name
00:44:36and
00:44:36let
00:44:38these
00:44:38prayers
00:44:39say
00:44:40during
00:44:40that
00:44:41what
00:44:41you
00:44:41do
00:44:41we
00:44:43believe
00:44:43you're
00:44:43a
00:44:43God
00:44:44of
00:44:44mercy
00:44:44and
00:44:44compassion
00:44:45and
00:44:46you
00:44:46welcome
00:44:46these
00:44:47children
00:44:47into
00:44:47your
00:44:47presence
00:44:48and
00:44:48we
00:44:48ask
00:44:48this
00:44:49name
00:44:49and
00:44:50then
00:44:50we
00:44:50will
00:44:50fall
00:44:50people
00:44:50are
00:44:51able
00:44:51in
00:44:52this
00:44:52climate
00:44:53of
00:44:53speaking
00:44:54the
00:44:55truth
00:44:55or
00:44:55actually
00:44:56naming
00:44:57what
00:44:57happened
00:44:58in
00:44:58their
00:44:59lives
00:44:59making
00:45:00it
00:45:00visible
00:45:00and
00:45:01reclaiming
00:45:01it
00:45:01and
00:45:02resolving
00:45:03it
00:45:03if you
00:45:03like
00:45:04for
00:45:04themselves
00:45:04on a
00:45:05psychological
00:45:05level
00:45:06he
00:45:11was
00:45:11for
00:45:14nine
00:45:14months
00:45:15and
00:45:16my
00:45:17husband
00:45:17buried
00:45:18a
00:45:19little
00:45:20white
00:45:20coffin
00:45:20and
00:45:21we
00:45:22had to
00:45:22bury
00:45:22him
00:45:22and
00:45:23so
00:45:23help
00:45:27help
00:45:27all
00:45:28who
00:45:28mourn
00:45:28and
00:45:29accompany
00:45:29all
00:45:29of
00:45:30us
00:45:30in
00:45:30our
00:45:30times
00:45:30of
00:45:30need
00:45:30we
00:45:33stand
00:45:37in
00:45:38prayer
00:45:38as we
00:45:39believe
00:45:39in your
00:45:40compassion
00:45:40and your
00:45:41generous
00:45:41love
00:45:41love
00:45:43and
00:45:43I
00:45:43feel
00:45:44up
00:45:44and
00:45:44I
00:45:45can't
00:45:47hear
00:45:47very
00:45:48closer
00:45:48at
00:45:48last
00:45:49in
00:45:52the
00:45:52mystery
00:45:52of
00:45:52your
00:45:52wisdom
00:45:52you
00:45:53have
00:45:53drawn
00:45:53these
00:45:54children
00:45:54to
00:45:54yourself
00:45:54in
00:45:55these
00:45:56moments
00:45:56we
00:45:57stand
00:45:57together
00:45:57in
00:45:57prayer
00:45:58the
00:45:58blessings
00:45:58that
00:45:59father
00:45:59of
00:45:59Cain
00:45:59carries
00:46:00out
00:46:00throughout
00:46:00his
00:46:01parish
00:46:01reveal
00:46:02to
00:46:03the
00:46:03entire
00:46:03community
00:46:04the
00:46:05dark
00:46:05secret
00:46:05that
00:46:06was
00:46:06kept
00:46:06hidden
00:46:06for
00:46:07many
00:46:07years
00:46:07and
00:46:08by
00:46:08many
00:46:09generations
00:46:09didn't
00:46:17realize
00:46:17that
00:46:17babies
00:46:18weren't
00:46:18allowed
00:46:18to
00:46:18be
00:46:18buried
00:46:19on
00:46:19consecrated
00:46:20grounds
00:46:21I
00:46:21didn't
00:46:22realize
00:46:22that
00:46:22it
00:46:22just
00:46:22seemed
00:46:23so
00:46:23sad
00:46:23they
00:46:23were
00:46:23in
00:46:24a
00:46:24place
00:46:26called
00:46:27Lumbow
00:46:27where
00:46:27they
00:46:28were
00:46:29dead
00:46:33so
00:46:33you
00:46:33couldn't
00:46:33die
00:46:33which
00:46:34was
00:46:34kind
00:46:34of
00:46:34silly
00:46:35really
00:46:35there
00:46:36was
00:46:37nothing
00:46:37to do
00:46:37with
00:46:37the
00:46:38baby
00:46:38had
00:46:38the
00:46:38vignals
00:46:39in
00:46:39it
00:46:39couldn't
00:46:40be
00:46:40absolved
00:46:41for
00:46:41you
00:46:41know
00:46:42bless
00:46:44the
00:46:44graves
00:46:45in
00:46:45this
00:46:45area
00:46:45send
00:46:48your
00:46:48holy
00:46:48angels
00:46:49from
00:46:49heaven
00:46:49to
00:46:49watch
00:46:49over
00:46:50this
00:46:50area
00:46:51through
00:46:51Christ
00:46:52our
00:46:52Lord
00:46:52Amen
00:46:53They
00:46:59was
00:47:00buried
00:47:00in
00:47:00this
00:47:01area
00:47:01beside
00:47:01the
00:47:02river
00:47:02and
00:47:03it
00:47:03was
00:47:03marked
00:47:04by
00:47:04a
00:47:05stone
00:47:05but
00:47:06like
00:47:06a
00:47:07lot
00:47:07of
00:47:07work
00:47:08has
00:47:08been
00:47:08done
00:47:08in
00:47:08this
00:47:08graveyard
00:47:09since
00:47:09so
00:47:10like
00:47:10he
00:47:10just
00:47:11can't
00:47:11get
00:47:12ideas
00:47:13where
00:47:13it
00:47:13is
00:47:13my
00:47:15mother
00:47:16it
00:47:16was
00:47:16her
00:47:17first
00:47:17son
00:47:17and
00:47:18she
00:47:18said
00:47:19that
00:47:20it
00:47:20was
00:47:20a
00:47:20young
00:47:20doctor
00:47:21had
00:47:21delivered
00:47:21him
00:47:21and
00:47:22that
00:47:23he
00:47:23had
00:47:23wrapped
00:47:23him
00:47:24up
00:47:24gave
00:47:25him
00:47:27to
00:47:27the
00:47:28next
00:47:28door
00:47:28neighbor
00:47:28and
00:47:29just
00:47:29she
00:47:29didn't
00:47:30know
00:47:30it
00:47:30was
00:47:30a
00:47:30baby
00:47:30and
00:47:30just
00:47:31said
00:47:31burn
00:47:31that
00:47:31and
00:47:33she
00:47:33says
00:47:33burn
00:47:34what
00:47:35and
00:47:35he
00:47:35says
00:47:35it
00:47:36it's
00:47:36a
00:47:36baby
00:47:38person
00:47:38you
00:47:39know
00:47:39and
00:47:40she
00:47:40actually
00:47:41even
00:47:41though
00:47:42the
00:47:42baby
00:47:42was
00:47:42dead
00:47:42she
00:47:43christened
00:47:43the
00:47:43baby
00:47:44herself
00:47:44and
00:47:45my
00:47:46dad
00:47:46and
00:47:47her
00:47:47husband
00:47:47and
00:47:47her
00:47:48son
00:47:48who's
00:47:48still
00:47:48alive
00:47:49who was
00:47:49talking
00:47:49to
00:47:50my
00:47:50brother
00:47:50about
00:47:50it
00:47:51he
00:47:51was
00:47:51actually
00:47:51here
00:47:52when
00:47:52he
00:47:52was
00:47:52buried
00:47:52they
00:48:08father
00:48:08and
00:48:09the
00:48:09son
00:48:09and
00:48:10the
00:48:10holy
00:48:10spirit
00:48:11amen
00:48:11let us
00:48:13go in
00:48:14peace
00:48:14in one
00:48:15morning
00:48:16father
00:48:17o'cain
00:48:17blesses
00:48:18four
00:48:18unmarked
00:48:19baby
00:48:19graves
00:48:20they're
00:48:21all
00:48:21within
00:48:22ten miles
00:48:22of each
00:48:23other
00:48:23the
00:48:33church
00:48:34if you
00:48:34like
00:48:35like
00:48:35many
00:48:35other
00:48:35pillars
00:48:36of
00:48:36society
00:48:37has
00:48:37been
00:48:37called
00:48:37into
00:48:38question
00:48:38and
00:48:39has
00:48:40been
00:48:40called
00:48:40to
00:48:41account
00:48:42for
00:48:42itself
00:48:43if you
00:48:43like
00:48:43on
00:48:43many
00:48:44levels
00:48:46and
00:48:47it
00:48:47has
00:48:47eroded
00:48:49certainly
00:48:50people's
00:48:50unquestioning
00:48:52attitude
00:48:53and belief
00:48:53in
00:48:54what they
00:48:55have
00:48:55received
00:48:55if you
00:48:56like
00:48:56as
00:48:56their
00:48:57religious
00:48:57tradition
00:48:59lord god
00:49:00ever
00:49:01caring
00:49:02and
00:49:02gentle
00:49:03we
00:49:04acknowledge
00:49:04you
00:49:04as
00:49:04lord
00:49:05of
00:49:05the
00:49:05living
00:49:05and
00:49:05the
00:49:05dead
00:49:06and
00:49:07we
00:49:07search
00:49:07for
00:49:08our
00:49:08peace
00:49:08in
00:49:08your
00:49:09will
00:49:09oh
00:49:09lord
00:49:10by
00:49:11you
00:49:11whose
00:49:11mercy
00:49:12is
00:49:12a
00:49:12place
00:49:12and
00:49:12the
00:49:12part
00:49:12of
00:49:13find
00:49:13rest
00:49:13bless
00:49:14these
00:49:14graves
00:49:15there's
00:49:16an expression
00:49:17Rome has
00:49:18spoken
00:49:18that
00:49:19this is
00:49:19finished
00:49:20the
00:49:21church
00:49:21you
00:49:22know
00:49:22just
00:49:22simply
00:49:22told
00:49:23people
00:49:24what to
00:49:25believe
00:49:25the
00:49:27awareness
00:49:27of
00:49:27god
00:49:28is
00:49:28a god
00:49:28of
00:49:28compassion
00:49:29and
00:49:29love
00:49:29but
00:49:30it
00:49:30could have
00:49:31lost
00:49:31somewhere
00:49:31in the middle
00:49:31of that
00:49:32bring us
00:49:33comfort
00:49:33and peace
00:49:34and we
00:49:35ask this
00:49:36in the name of the father
00:49:37and the son
00:49:38and the holy spirit
00:49:39amen
00:49:40we live
00:49:40we live
00:49:40we live
00:49:40we live in a
00:49:40healthier
00:49:41environment
00:49:42by
00:49:42of
00:49:42questioning
00:49:42and seeking
00:49:43together
00:49:43there's a new
00:49:45awareness
00:49:45in our church
00:49:46that
00:49:46these children
00:49:47are now in heaven
00:49:48at
00:49:54at
00:49:54milton
00:49:54there has been a
00:49:55breakthrough
00:49:56the survey has
00:49:58confirmed the existence
00:49:59of mass graves
00:50:00the ulster wildlife trust
00:50:04has agreed to carefully
00:50:05remove some of its
00:50:07trees
00:50:08which have been planted
00:50:09on thousands of
00:50:10unmarked graves
00:50:11for relatives
00:50:13this means they can
00:50:15at last
00:50:15see their loved ones
00:50:17burial ground
00:50:18brilliant
00:50:20big maelstrom
00:50:24in a donut
00:50:26enough information
00:50:31has been gathered
00:50:32that it can be
00:50:33clearly stated
00:50:34that areas
00:50:36A
00:50:37C
00:50:39and the top
00:50:41third of D
00:50:42have abundant
00:50:45if mixed
00:50:46evidence
00:50:46of human remains
00:50:48if land
00:50:49with such remains
00:50:50are to be
00:50:51administered by the church
00:50:52then this area
00:50:54should be returned
00:50:55to that authority
00:50:57Cemetery Sunday
00:51:10is a Roman Catholic
00:51:11tradition
00:51:12on one special day
00:51:14each year
00:51:15people stand
00:51:16at their family graves
00:51:17to remember
00:51:18they're dead
00:51:19it's something
00:51:21the protesting
00:51:22relatives
00:51:22have never been
00:51:23able to do
00:51:24but today
00:51:25the fence
00:51:26is down
00:51:27the bishop
00:51:28has also issued
00:51:30a public apology
00:51:31for the land transfer
00:51:32printed in the
00:51:33national newspaper
00:51:34our baby's son
00:51:39Martin
00:51:39he was
00:51:41born
00:51:42ten weeks
00:51:43early
00:51:43and died
00:51:44just as he was born
00:51:46we always knew
00:51:47the grave
00:51:48wasn't blessed
00:51:49we found it
00:51:52four years ago
00:51:53we think this
00:51:54is the right place
00:51:55which I'm not sure
00:51:56as far as I was
00:51:59concerned
00:51:59Martin
00:52:00is baptized
00:52:01through my
00:52:02pelvis
00:52:02and my
00:52:03bulbous
00:52:03belt
00:52:04back up
00:52:04he's so
00:52:07just so content
00:52:08that I know
00:52:09he's got
00:52:10this kind of great
00:52:11well it means
00:52:16now that the
00:52:17shelter are back
00:52:18in the holy ground
00:52:21they're not
00:52:22outsiders
00:52:23anymore
00:52:23they're back
00:52:26to live alone
00:52:27and no
00:52:29town
00:52:29cemetery
00:52:29I think there
00:52:37can be no doubt
00:52:37now that when
00:52:39these places
00:52:40of burial
00:52:41are consecrated
00:52:42are brought
00:52:43back into the
00:52:44community
00:52:44in whatever
00:52:45shape or form
00:52:46that that
00:52:47allows people
00:52:47to embrace
00:52:49the child
00:52:50it allows
00:52:52the parents
00:52:53particularly
00:52:53and perhaps
00:52:54other family
00:52:55members
00:52:55to welcome
00:52:56that child
00:52:57into their
00:52:57family
00:52:58into their
00:52:58community
00:52:58to know
00:52:59that it is
00:53:00part of them
00:53:01and that they'll
00:53:01never be
00:53:02separated again
00:53:03I remember
00:53:08yesterday
00:53:09I was just
00:53:11told to bring
00:53:11a shoebox
00:53:12up
00:53:12and has
00:53:14triggered
00:53:14off on his
00:53:15call and
00:53:15said
00:53:15that's okay
00:53:16we'll deal
00:53:17with it
00:53:17here we can't
00:53:18bury the baby
00:53:19it has to be
00:53:19a piece of
00:53:20grand
00:53:21here
00:53:21there's a
00:53:22small food
00:53:23all the
00:53:23day
00:53:24she's just
00:53:29born
00:53:29lots of
00:53:39people it's
00:53:40terribly important
00:53:41to have a
00:53:41focus for
00:53:43grief and
00:53:43so if a
00:53:46family or
00:53:47a community
00:53:47is allowed
00:53:48to mourn
00:53:49somehow
00:53:50that's
00:53:51allowing
00:53:51the whole
00:53:52process to
00:53:53be recognised
00:53:54and their
00:53:55own
00:53:55disenfranchisement
00:53:56to be
00:53:56transformed
00:53:57into something
00:53:58much more
00:53:58positive
00:53:59at the
00:54:07island of the
00:54:08dead
00:54:08and
00:54:08they've
00:54:10gone beyond
00:54:10a blessing
00:54:11members of
00:54:13the community
00:54:13are making
00:54:14their way to
00:54:14the island
00:54:15for a special
00:54:16unveiling
00:54:17when
00:54:21when this
00:54:21island now
00:54:23is blessed
00:54:23they have
00:54:25the same
00:54:25status now
00:54:26as
00:54:27anyone else
00:54:28that dies
00:54:29and gets
00:54:29buried
00:54:30what I know
00:54:34I'm very
00:54:34happy
00:54:35and very
00:54:36glad
00:54:37that it's
00:54:37been done
00:54:38and that
00:54:38people that
00:54:40comes after
00:54:40me and
00:54:41know
00:54:41who's
00:54:42buried there
00:54:43and what
00:54:43is buried
00:54:44there
00:54:44it's nice
00:54:47to have
00:54:48somewhere to
00:54:48go to
00:54:49like we
00:54:50would always
00:54:50have went
00:54:51down and
00:54:52we would
00:54:52have said
00:54:54a prayer
00:54:54at the
00:54:55island
00:54:55but
00:54:56nobody else
00:54:58would have
00:54:58known it
00:54:58was there
00:54:59whereas now
00:55:00we have
00:55:01it marked
00:55:02out
00:55:02the community
00:55:15has decided
00:55:16to erect
00:55:16a public
00:55:17memorial
00:55:18on the
00:55:18island
00:55:19for the
00:55:20first time
00:55:20it will
00:55:21be clear
00:55:22to everyone
00:55:23that this
00:55:24was a
00:55:24burial
00:55:24ground
00:55:25for their
00:55:25dead
00:55:26I'm sure
00:55:28the people
00:55:29that have
00:55:29gone before
00:55:30are looking
00:55:30down and
00:55:31can see
00:55:32what is
00:55:33done
00:55:33and it
00:55:34is
00:55:34it is
00:55:35closure
00:55:35it is
00:55:36nice to
00:55:36acknowledge
00:55:37that they
00:55:38have lived
00:55:39and that
00:55:40they were
00:55:41somebody
00:55:42they were
00:55:42a person
00:55:43and they were
00:55:45ours
00:55:45for so
00:55:50for so long
00:55:50something was
00:55:51hidden
00:55:51people were
00:55:52ashamed
00:55:52of it
00:55:53they couldn't
00:55:54say it
00:55:55they thought
00:55:55it was a
00:55:55sin
00:55:56now they
00:55:57can go
00:55:58into the
00:55:58open and
00:55:59admit
00:56:00even if
00:56:01this baby
00:56:01wasn't
00:56:02actually
00:56:02officially
00:56:03baptised
00:56:04or given
00:56:04a name
00:56:04they have
00:56:05a name
00:56:06they know
00:56:07the baby
00:56:07they can
00:56:09reconcile
00:56:09themselves
00:56:10with that
00:56:10child
00:56:11so I
00:56:13think that
00:56:13on a
00:56:13human
00:56:14and a
00:56:15social
00:56:15and
00:56:15familiar
00:56:15level
00:56:16it's
00:56:16crucially
00:56:17important
00:56:17and for
00:56:18communities
00:56:18also
00:56:19because
00:56:19this is
00:56:20throughout
00:56:20every single
00:56:21community
00:56:21urban and
00:56:22rural
00:56:22in Ireland
00:56:23and elsewhere
00:56:24parents want
00:56:26to be able
00:56:26to go to
00:56:26a place
00:56:27and say
00:56:27these are
00:56:28our little
00:56:28angels
00:56:29whether they
00:56:29were baptised
00:56:30or not
00:56:30at Milton
00:56:45the protest
00:56:47has now
00:56:47become a
00:56:48campaign
00:56:48for a
00:56:49garden of
00:56:49remembrance
00:56:50for all
00:56:51who are
00:56:51buried here
00:56:52although the
00:56:54land still
00:56:54hasn't been
00:56:55returned
00:56:55an announcement
00:56:57has been
00:56:57made of
00:56:58an agreement
00:56:59to restore
00:57:00the land
00:57:00back to
00:57:01the cemetery
00:57:01it's what
00:57:02the protesting
00:57:03relatives
00:57:04had hoped
00:57:05for
00:57:06my son
00:57:13I've been
00:57:13looking for
00:57:14him for
00:57:1450 years
00:57:14where he
00:57:15was buried
00:57:15you know
00:57:17it's hard
00:57:18to put
00:57:1850 years
00:57:18behind you
00:57:19but this
00:57:20is a
00:57:21major step
00:57:22forward
00:57:23in that
00:57:24direction
00:57:25and these
00:57:26ladies
00:57:27work their
00:57:27fingers to
00:57:28the bones
00:57:29to do
00:57:29that for
00:57:30us
00:57:30there is
00:57:35no longer
00:57:35a protest
00:57:36of the
00:57:37gates
00:57:37theologically
00:57:39the situation
00:57:40is still
00:57:41one of
00:57:42ambiguity
00:57:42God can
00:57:46save them
00:57:47and there
00:57:49are very
00:57:49strong
00:57:50reasons
00:57:51for
00:57:52holding
00:57:54a hope
00:57:55that in
00:57:56fact
00:57:56they do
00:57:58reach
00:57:58full and
00:57:59complete
00:58:00in rapture
00:58:01union
00:58:01with God
00:58:02we pray
00:58:03for those
00:58:04whom
00:58:04we are
00:58:06very hopeful
00:58:07will in
00:58:08fact
00:58:08be fully
00:58:09saved
00:58:09but we
00:58:13are not
00:58:13certain
00:58:14we cannot
00:58:14be certain
00:58:15of that
00:58:15limbo
00:58:21if you like
00:58:22is kind
00:58:22of a bit
00:58:22embarrassing
00:58:23in a way
00:58:24it itself
00:58:25is a limbo
00:58:26it itself
00:58:27is in
00:58:28this
00:58:28quasi
00:58:30intermediate
00:58:31ill-defined
00:58:32region of
00:58:33theological
00:58:33thought
00:58:34in the
00:58:35current
00:58:36environment
00:58:36most people
00:58:38that I
00:58:39would know
00:58:40would feel
00:58:41that that
00:58:41was kind
00:58:42of old
00:58:42fashioned
00:58:43and irrelevant
00:58:44and they
00:58:45don't want
00:58:45to confront
00:58:46it or think
00:58:46about it
00:58:47and practice
00:58:48actual practice
00:58:49is that
00:58:50priests
00:58:50for the most
00:58:51part
00:58:51catholic
00:58:51priests
00:58:52wouldn't
00:58:52dream now
00:58:53of suggesting
00:58:54that babies
00:58:55shouldn't be
00:58:55buried in
00:58:56conservatory
00:58:56world
00:58:57ordinary
00:58:59catholics
00:58:59would be
00:59:00told
00:59:00most likely
00:59:01limbo's
00:59:03kind of
00:59:03gone if you
00:59:04like
00:59:04and yet
00:59:04officially
00:59:05there's no
00:59:06such
00:59:06statement
00:59:07people have
00:59:17been afraid
00:59:18to speak up
00:59:20against the
00:59:20catholic church
00:59:21don't get me
00:59:22wrong
00:59:22I'm still a
00:59:23roman catholic
00:59:24I still believe
00:59:24in my faith
00:59:25but they
00:59:28hoished up
00:59:29a lot of
00:59:30things
00:59:30the way
00:59:32they hoished
00:59:32up our
00:59:32babies
00:59:33there's still
00:59:36women out
00:59:37there
00:59:37god bless
00:59:38and blame
00:59:38themselves
00:59:39what did
00:59:42they do
00:59:42wrong
00:59:43you don't
00:59:45blame
00:59:46yourself
00:59:47I was being
00:59:51counselled
00:59:52and it was
00:59:53through the
00:59:54counsellor
00:59:54that I
00:59:55started
00:59:55looking
00:59:56then for
00:59:57the
00:59:57child
00:59:58I'm only
01:00:02sorry
01:00:03I didn't
01:00:03do it
01:00:03forty years
01:00:04ago
01:00:04that I
01:00:06wouldn't
01:00:06be going
01:00:06through this
01:00:07today
01:00:07and other
01:00:08people
01:00:08like myself
01:00:09wouldn't
01:00:10be going
01:00:11through this
01:00:11today
01:00:11knowing that
01:00:22you've
01:00:22somewhere
01:00:22to go
01:00:23and you
01:00:24know where
01:00:25to go
01:00:25that was
01:00:26heartbreaking
01:00:29that you
01:00:31can go
01:00:32now
01:00:32and look
01:00:33there and
01:00:34say well
01:00:34William David's
01:00:35here
01:00:35and you
01:00:38can pray
01:00:39to him
01:00:39you can
01:00:39talk to
01:00:40him
01:00:40I always
01:00:42wonder who
01:00:42would he
01:00:43look like
01:00:43hopefully
01:00:45me
01:00:45while the
01:00:52church has
01:00:53relaxed its
01:00:53rules on
01:00:54limbo
01:00:54their official
01:00:56stance
01:00:56remains
01:00:58in
01:01:00the
01:01:01next
01:01:02time
01:01:03to
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