00:00Amid the political noise surrounding Sarkozy's case, you may have missed the fact that it
00:04actually involved individual victims, people who lost family members in a 1989 terrorist
00:09attack ordered by the Libyan regime. Among the favors offered to Gaddafi by Sarkozy was the
00:15rehabilitation of his image and working to lift an arrest warrant against his brother-in-law,
00:19Abdullah Sanusi, who was among six Libyans convicted in absentia of organizing that attack.
00:25170 people were killed when UTA Flight 772 exploded in the desert over Niger, leaving
00:31no survivors. Among them were 54 French citizens, including a flight attendant named Martine
00:37Brett. Her daughter, Johanna, was just a baby at the time, and she joins us now to discuss
00:42the case. Johanna, we are sorry for your loss, and we really appreciate you joining us today.
00:48Thank you, Alison, for inviting me. Thank you.
00:50I want to start by asking you about Sarkozy being put in prison. How does it feel knowing
00:55that he is currently behind bars?
00:59We are not happy. I mean, this is really terrible for France. This is terrible for our republic.
01:05But it also means that our democracy is working. And that is, no one is about the law. So that's
01:13the separation of power makes sense. And that's what is really important today.
01:16And we just saw that report about him being protected by personal bodyguards, sort of an
01:22exceptional, you know, situation for the French president. A lot of people don't agree with
01:27that, that he's being treated differently. Do you have any feelings about it?
01:32To be honest, I believe that this should not be the main focus of the debate. We understand
01:38that he has special circumstances, and we are not really in position to judge what it may need
01:43for his safety. But the world is watching me. The world is watching us. They will have to take
01:50responsibility again, whether it be the official supporter of Minister of Justice, Gerald D'Amana,
01:56and his visit to our current president, Emmanuel Macron, the day before his incarceration
02:01of the privilege associated. Let's see. Let's see what is going to happen, because it's right
02:08now. Let's talk about your own personal involvement in the trial. You were one of the
02:14plaintiffs. Can you explain more about that?
02:17So, like you say, in the bombing, in the UTI Decides, it was a French plane that exploded in the
02:27desert of scenery, killing 170 people. This attack was organized by Libyan under the Gaddafi regime,
02:36and the person primarily responsible for his attack is Abdallah Senussi. It was Gaddafi brother-in-law,
02:44and one of the key figures in the Libyan financing affair. So, why it was a key figure? Because in order
02:50to finance his presidential campaign, Nicolas Sarkozy was minister at the moment, entering into a corrupt
02:58black. In exchange for money, he made some promises, and one of them was to review the criminal case
03:06against Abdallah Senussi. That's why we are here, that's why we are plaintiff, because we think,
03:12we think, we have prejudice, and actually the court recognizes it.
03:16Yeah, I believe you were awarded a small, a small sum of money at recognizing your status as victims.
03:24What was it like testifying in court? Can you tell us a bit about, about what you said?
03:28It was a long way to make us testify. It was really important for us. It was one of the most important
03:37things for us. It was to be heard by the court and by them, to tell them how it's difficult for us to
03:43understand that all government and all presidents make that things. So, we did it. To be honest, we feel better
03:53after, and we finished the day of testifying by, by smile, because we do understand it's going to
04:00change the things.
04:02Did you feel like Sarkozy heard you? Were you able to look him in the eye?
04:06Yes, he heard you. He tried to answer you. So, yes, he heard. But he didn't change his way to defend
04:15himself. I mean, he didn't excuse himself. He didn't have really a role for us to explain what
04:23has really happened. So, he heard, but I'm not sure he understood.
04:28Can you talk just a bit about what you said in your testimony? I mean, what has it meant to you,
04:33having lost your mother in this attack, to have then seen, you know, the Libyan dictator and his
04:38relationship with Sarkozy, you know, just years after that?
04:43I tried to explain what was life after that, because like you said, I was one year and a half,
04:48so very, really, really young. That's like, I have to, to, to fix some stuff in my family. So,
04:54I tried to tell them how complicated it was. I tried to, to let him know how it was
05:02uncomfortable for me, because I was, I don't know how to translate it, but I was
05:06pupi de la nation. That's mean, I was adopted by France. I was adopted by all government. So, when I,
05:15when he received Qatafi, and when I do understand there is some stuff between the, the Libyan regime
05:21and France, I mean, it was, it was crazy. And I tried to tell him, I feel abandoned again. I feel
05:29like lost in my own country. So, it was my testifier.
05:35Sarkozy continues to claim his innocence. His lawyers have called this a conviction without
05:39evidence. He was acquitted of the corruption charges. How do you respond to those arguments?
05:44He has a right to defend himself. I mean, he has a right and he has a strategy. So,
05:53they know the entire case, like everyone who had read it. But they choose to deny. They choose to
06:00lie. So, let's see what's going to happen next, because we will be there.
06:03And I know you were saying this, this condemnation of Sarkozy is a victory for France, but there have
06:09been of death threats against the judge in this case, as well as journalists. And I know that's
06:14something that concerns you. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
06:18To be honest, I think it was what angered me most about the trial. I'm not sure people really
06:25understand what, what happens because a free press and justice are the most important checks and
06:31balance in our country. And the statement of Nicolas Sarkozy and his friends and his colleagues and his
06:38family, after the verdict, they're very, very dangerous and probably cause some trouble.
06:43You know, like today, the streets, again, magistrates and journalists are unacceptable. We can't
06:49accept that. And I believe it is our duty, as the biggest contributing power, the people, us to
06:56defend them, to protect, they protect us. So, we need to defend them.
07:01How do you feel about how the case was treated by the media in France? Do you feel like victims like
07:06you were talked about enough?
07:10It was terrible for us because we were there every day. We know who was there and who can talk really
07:17about the judgment. We felt abandoned and forgotten. We were like at the trail every day. We know that
07:24some of the journalists, they were familiar with the case, with those we have on our program are
07:29political journalists and not legal journalists. So, they don't know the case really. They don't know the
07:35case. It was unbelievable and very upsetting. We feel that the things are changing now, like from
07:41a few days now. And we are not finally talking about the substance. And substance, infertility,
07:47it's us too. So, we talk about the substance, we're not talking about the form. And to be honest,
07:53I thank you for that.
07:54And I know this is not the end of your fight for justice. What's next for you and for the other
07:59victims of this attack?
08:03As we say, we will not give up. We want to know the truth and see the justice through the end. So,
08:11we will be there for happening, for sure. We are also plaintiff in another case involving
08:18Nicolas Sarkozy called Takedin false threat expression, which for some, they have to try to
08:23bribe a key witness in the Libyan affair, who died before the trial. So, we believe there will be a
08:31trial too. We are waiting for that. We are also plaintiff in, and I told you already, we will be on
08:40appel next year. And to let you know, too, the investigation of Mediapart, which I repeat, is really
08:47rigorous and made the job, like, unbelievable. And so, it allows us to move forward our own story with
08:55the DCD's Bombay case. And particularly true, because in a few months, the bomb makers of low-care
09:03B terrorist attacks will be judged in the US, and apparently the same bomb maker of us. So, we hope
09:12things are going to happen, and we'll see what is going to be. So, it means we are not done with the
09:18justice system. But it also means that even if it takes time, we know that. We already know that.
09:25But it's cool. I mean, the world is changing and moving towards the truth. And I understand,
09:32to be honest, for me, I really true, in these crazy times we are living, this is the good news.
09:37Well, we will, of course, continue to follow your case. Johanna Brett, thank you again so much for
09:44joining us today. That was Johanna Brett, a plaintiff in the case against former President
09:48Nicolas Sarkozy. Her mother was one of the 170 victims of UTA Flight 772,
09:54an attack ordered by the Libyan regime of Muammar Gaddafi.
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