00:00I love such brave girls so much.
00:03And I know the impetus for the show came from when you were under section
00:07and your sister Lizzie revealed that she was $20,000 in debt.
00:11How long did it take you to craft the series after that?
00:16Well, when I came out, I moved home for a bit.
00:19So I was like around my sister and my mom
00:21and like just started writing down like everything they say
00:24and like how they talk.
00:25Because I was like, I have never seen this before.
00:27Like you see like family sitcoms and like they all talk in like a very like
00:31most of them talk in like quite a heartwarming way.
00:33And I was like, that is so not my experience.
00:35So it was like, I documented everything we talked about.
00:39And during that time, I bleached Lizzie's hair for real.
00:42Like that became a pilot was bleaching her hair.
00:46This is going to look so good though, isn't it?
00:48Yeah.
00:49Because that's feminism.
00:50If it hurts loads, it must be worth doing.
00:53Um, yeah.
00:54So I kind of put that together and then we pitched it to BBC.
00:57Then they, we did a series and like, so then I just built out like
01:00every anecdote that I interviewed mom and my sister and like put it all together.
01:05I had this crazy room of like post-it notes of like all the stories I wanted
01:09to build into the show and then just like put it together from there.
01:11But it took a while.
01:13And the show reminds me of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
01:16because it follows this hilarious group of narcissists
01:18that you can't help but kind of root for in all their terribleness.
01:23How did you sell this idea to BBC Three and later A24?
01:26That's like a huge compliment to compare.
01:28That's like my favorite show.
01:29So that's, that's me sweet as I love that.
01:32Um, they were so on board actually.
01:35Like I'm not going to lie.
01:36Like I think they understood what I was going for was trying to capture like
01:41the, I feel like there was like this wave of like trauma comedy
01:45where it's like very much comedy drama and you felt sorry for like the lead
01:49or you wanted them to sympathize.
01:50And I want to do something that was quite tongue in cheek about trauma
01:53and like make a joke about it and like talk about it the way that I know
01:57that me and my friends talk about it.
01:58And I feel like they got on board quite quickly, which was lovely.
02:01Cause like that was a surprise.
02:02How soon did Simon Byrd best known to American audiences for the in-betweeners
02:06come on to direct the series?
02:08He came on after we did the pilot and like he wrote me like a letter saying
02:14what he would do if he was a director on it.
02:16There's a way in which this goes into being a comedy drama.
02:19That's really like melancholy.
02:20He was like, I don't want that.
02:21We're going to go for the jokes.
02:22And I was like, that's exactly what I want to.
02:23So it was like the perfect match.
02:26And he's like one of my best friends now.
02:27Like we love him so much.
02:29She's done all of season two.
02:30We're not going to stop.
02:32And I think everyone who watches such brave girls doesn't realize that you and Lizzie
02:37are actually sisters until they Google it.
02:40And then you're just delighted to learn that you're actually related.
02:43You know, was it important to cast her as Billie?
02:45Oh, it was always going to be her.
02:47There was no world in which it was going to be anyone else.
02:49Like she's so naturally funny.
02:52And so much of the job was working out how to translate Lizzie and like capture the bits
02:57of her character that I think is so funny and then give it to Billie.
03:00Like, because I've never seen a character like her on screen before.
03:02She's so like front-footed and like spins everything in a way that makes it work for
03:08her.
03:08And she's always a step ahead of everyone.
03:10And like, I wanted to capture that so much.
03:12So it was always going to be her.
03:13Louise is so good as matriarch of the family.
03:16Did she get your mom's blessing to play your on-screen mother?
03:21I think mom knows it's not hers.
03:23I think she enjoys the fact that it's like this kind of caricature of like a mom figure
03:28for us.
03:29And like she knows bits are inspired, but she knows it's not her.
03:31But they did meet for the first time like at our screening of season two, which was so
03:35funny.
03:36I've got a picture of them stood together, which was so surreal.
03:38But Lou Brealey is like the best comedy act.
03:42She is amazing.
03:43Like she blows us away.
03:45The way she captures like the nuance of the character that could be like quite like big
03:50in caricature, like she makes it so nuanced and you believe every moment of it.
03:54Like she's so talented and blows our minds.
03:56I loved how season two started with the fake out of Josie functioning normally in college.
04:01Why me?
04:03Why now?
04:04Why am I here and what gives me the right to be here?
04:09Not me.
04:10Where is she?
04:12I knew we'd find you in here.
04:15Embarrassing.
04:16It's all right, everyone.
04:17I'm her mother.
04:18Did you ever toy with the notion of having the girls grow in season two?
04:22I did, but it's like the best comedies I do think like make their characters live in purgatory.
04:27Like you can grow a little bit, but you can't learn too much while the show is broken.
04:30Like I feel like they all have to commit to like this mutual delusion of like the way
04:34they live is the right way to do it.
04:36So like I couldn't change too much.
04:38Like a big inspiration to show peep show and like the way the writers talk about they make
04:41their characters like live in hell.
04:43Like they have to remain in hell.
04:45They have that purgatory as the flat.
04:46And it was like, I think that is the best way to like make a sitcom.
04:49So they can't grow too much.
04:50Not allowed.
04:51Well, in season two, you also introduced Deb's sister, Aunt Wendy.
04:57That haggard old crone is here to serve as a warning to you.
05:00Better dead than single.
05:06You like?
05:07You're here early.
05:08Yeah, well, Mike used to book all my travel, but now I can take the train anytime I like.
05:14Pure freedom.
05:15Sounds lonely.
05:16Call me lonely if you like.
05:18Gonna choose that over an admin headache any day.
05:21Was it important for you to have this parallel sister experience that I think was much more
05:26toxic than Josie's and Billy's relationship?
05:29That was totally it.
05:30It was about like being like I was very interested in showing a bit of Deb's background and like
05:35us getting a little window into like why she is the way she is and like bringing in her
05:39like her sister was like a really fun way of like exploring that.
05:42And the actor Kate Fleetwood is just like incredible.
05:46Like she just came in and like this like huge matriarch.
05:49Like she's just the most incredible actor.
05:51It was like an honor to work with her.
05:52I love how Deb is kind of obsessed with James Bond.
05:56She compares both Deb and Graham to the famous spy.
06:00Oh, thank you, Jamie.
06:03Actually, I go by James now.
06:06Why like James Bond?
06:07Why is 007 Deb's dream guy?
06:12I think that she would like she wants to be rescued deep down.
06:17She thinks she's like this, you know, fragile woman that needs to be rescued by this strong
06:20man.
06:21And I feel like for her, James Bond is like the strongest man she can think of.
06:24He could like kill anyone or whatever.
06:25So I think for her, it's like he's the archetype of like male power.
06:30And so like I think she just and also I think I don't think I've ever met a man who hasn't
06:34like loved the comparison to James Bond.
06:36Well, Deb, what do you reckon?
06:38I can't bald for the first time in my life.
06:42Sexy, right?
06:43I know.
06:44I am your James Bond.
06:47So I feel like Deb learned that and it's just like peddling it to anyone.
06:50But yeah, I love that Deb is like obsessed with it too.
06:54Well, I love Deb's journey throughout the two seasons.
06:57You know, as he gets more exposure to the women, his narcissism and toxicity seems to
07:03seep out of him.
07:05Were they always going to be his downfall?
07:08I think so, because that's the same for every character, because they're all similar in a
07:11way.
07:11They all have this like narcissism streak, but they're all up for themselves.
07:15So it's like making their goals like so they're chasing after something that's only for
07:19them like self-serving, but he does become more and more like entangled in like the house.
07:23And like, it's almost like the house is a poison to him, like makes him like become
07:27more similar to the girls.
07:29I love that it's like literally falling apart around their ears, you know, in season two.
07:35And then also I had sort of a question, does, is Deb employed?
07:39Does she have a job?
07:40She does have a job and one day we'll get to it.
07:42But I, one of the tweets I saw about the show on season one was what does Deb do?
07:45And I love like reading that and being like, how can I subvert?
07:47So I was like, I'm not, I'm never going to say, I'm not going to give them that.
07:51So that's something that I'll keep as a mystery, I think until the time's right.
07:55Another thing I loved halfway through season two, we learn that Nikki has told both Billy
07:59and Bianca that they sound like Amy Winehouse, which leads to a sing-off at that casino.
08:05Well, sometimes I go all by myself and I look across the water and I think of all the things,
08:16what you're doing?
08:18And in my head I paint a picture.
08:22Where did these dueling Amy Winehouse impressions come from?
08:25I think it came from like, Lizzie loves singing and she's really good.
08:30And she was like, her one request for season two was, can I sing in season two?
08:34So I was like, never going to let it be that it is genuine singing.
08:39So it kind of came from like thinking like, okay, how can I make that funny?
08:42Like, I think it should be as a, in an imitation of someone famous.
08:45And like, Amy Winehouse just felt like a funny, like, inspo for her, like, as someone.
08:50And we never let her watch any Amy Winehouse clips.
08:53So the impression is based on Lizzie's like, hazy memory of like, what Amy Winehouse might
08:58sound like.
08:59So that's why it's so strange.
09:00Another thing I love about the show is the title sequence, where you have the hair on
09:04the shower, you know, wall, I think an image that any woman can relate to.
09:10Can you tell me how that title design came to be?
09:13Well, it came from like, I wanted to, the bathroom of the show is like the French cafe.
09:19Like, I feel like that's the epicenter of the show is like kind of where all the scheming
09:22happens.
09:22Like, we always kind of cut back to the bathroom.
09:24So I kind of knew that I wanted it to be in the bathroom.
09:26And like, I just remember like when I was staying with, with mom and my sister, like,
09:32there would always be hair across the tiles.
09:34And I just thought it would be funny to be like, okay, could you do a, could you do a word
09:38with that?
09:38And then we kind of like pitched it to an animator.
09:40And then she came back and showed us that she'd kind of done it.
09:42And it looked, I've loved it.
09:44And it's so great to have it kind of dripping down like the wall.
09:46So it kind of came from like, the show is like trying to show the grim reality of like
09:51being a woman and like living together.
09:53And so that was something that I thought might be a good way of like quickly getting that
09:57across.
09:57So are you in or out, you know, because it's quite a disturbing image.
10:00I do want to ask you about a potential season three.
10:03Where do you see, um, these girls going?
10:08I don't know.
10:10Cause we leave on such a big cliffhanger at the end of two.
10:17We're going out the back door, girls.
10:18So I think it will be about like, can we get the house back?
10:27I feel like that's the challenge is working out how we get there.
10:30And like, is that what they want?
10:32Because they all act like they want to get out.
10:34It's a prison.
10:34So like, I think the question will be like, what happens if you have the opportunity to
10:38leave?
10:38Do you then stay or do you go?
10:40So I think that's kind of my question.
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