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00:00This is the first time Ariana has to lead a movie, so that is a giant responsibility and not everyone can do that.
00:08You have to have an energy that sustains, and not just one movie. Oh, you're in charge of two movies!
00:19I'm Baz Bami-Boy, Deadline's Breaking Bad columnist and international editor-at-large.
00:24I'm so excited to be moderating the panel for the spectacular musical, Wicked for Good, and I'm delighted that Oscar-nominated filmmaker John M. Chu will be joining us to wave his magic wand and cast a spell or two, or three, over all of you.
00:41Anyway, the film is the epic conclusion to last of all seasons, Wicked, which saw Cynthia Erivo's Elphaba, the Wicked Witch of the West, saw her way on a broomstick into exile and estranged from Ariana Grande's Glinda the Good.
00:58Their actions in part one have consequences, which we'll see play out in Wicked for Good.
01:03Is their friendship over for good? Will they ever be reconciled?
01:08Please help me welcome John M. Chu, the director of the stunning Yes, I've Seen It, Wicked for Good.
01:19So listen, you know, look, it's fair to say in the show, the stage show, after defying gravity at the end of the first act, there's not much left to do.
01:30But somehow you have found a two and a half hour movie, an extravaganza.
01:36So how did you do it? How did you and Stephen, the lyricist, and Mark Platt, the producer, say, OK, this is what we're going to do, so whizz up?
01:45Yeah. Well, you know, I saw the show before it ever went on Broadway.
01:50And so I was sort of patient zero at a certain point.
01:54So I remember what it felt like to watch this new Stephen Schwartz musical with no context.
01:59And I thought the second half was the meat.
02:02I thought the second half was like the reason to be.
02:05You get all this set up and all this thing and she gets out and she breaks out.
02:08That's the fairy tale side.
02:10But the second half is the adult selves looking back at their dreams and their hopes and and what they thought the world was and their stories and all of it shatters and the consequences of the choices that you think are so easy.
02:23And I mean, they're tough, but when you do it, but the consequences are even tougher how to stick through it.
02:28And so for me, what I think the second half really needed for me was just I want to know more about these individual women's experience of going through that.
02:37How lonely is it when you make a choice like that and you have to stand up to power and you feel like you're the only one doing it?
02:45And that's a very heavy, lonely experience.
02:48And then what happens when the home that you're fighting for, you realize was never built for you?
02:54Sure.
02:54And should you be there when they actually want you dead?
02:58What is home in those questions?
03:00And what happens when you're someone like Glinda who who has this bubble of protection?
03:04You don't ever have to deal with the truth if you don't want to, even though you've witnessed it.
03:08What do you become when you know the truth?
03:10Are you able to then pop your bubble of privilege and and and and and let it in?
03:17I think to me, those were the bigger questions of the wicked saga that for us, we were able to do that.
03:23So talking to Stephen and Mark and we needed more songs because we needed more avenues into that mindset.
03:29Musicals are great because you it's not about being bigger.
03:32It's about being deeper into these characters minds and and and and what they're going through.
03:37And so we we have new songs that that we get to witness how they go through these these thoughts.
03:44And the audience can experience what it feels like.
03:46So and how did you decide which songs and how to place them and who would sing them?
03:50I mean, I mean, I mean, it would have been pretty cruel had they just been for just for one or the other for sure.
03:57Those were a lot of discussions, but I knew we knew the areas.
04:02We knew the areas of where we needed more information.
04:06So it's either going to be a scene or is either going to be a song and working with someone great like Stephen.
04:11He was like, I have an idea for that.
04:13Let me give me give me 48 hours and he'll send me a voice memo and I'll hear it.
04:16I'm like, OK, that's I think that's what we want to say.
04:19And then we'll discuss. Is that really what it's going on?
04:22Is it just about home or is it about her identity or is it about do we do we pin it on Glinda like an actual friend?
04:31Yeah, yeah.
04:31How specific, you know, and so on and so forth.
04:33And how and how because she shot this film continuously, as it were.
04:38Yeah.
04:38How did that work? Because, you know, in the first part there, what can one say?
04:43They are young women, but they are women in the second part.
04:46Yeah. Yeah.
04:47So how did you get the emotions when they're shooting one scene and then you're doing part two scene the same day?
04:53I mean, how did that work?
04:54Well, I think that's been the hard part about even for the first movie talking about it is because we we have done the whole thing.
05:00We shot, you know, one day we're in shiz.
05:01The next day we're in for good.
05:03And the next day they're they're setting things on fire.
05:05And the next day they're coming to class for the first day.
05:07I think what we could not talk about a year ago was how technical and how amazing all the actors had to be and our cast and crew had to be in order to jump.
05:19We made this sort of board or at least I made a board in my office that had every scene.
05:24And it wasn't about the plot of the scene.
05:27It was about what we want the audience to be feeling.
05:30What's our storytelling guide through this?
05:32And so we could always follow and where they were.
05:35And we had little pick points because in my head it was sort of like Pleasantville.
05:39Each of them would have to ask a question of their reality.
05:42And there's like the fake question, but then there's the real question.
05:45And then there's the acceptance of the question or the resistance of that question.
05:48And so we mapped it on each of the characters and we when I was working with Ari and Cynthia, we would map where that is.
05:54And so we could have sort of had pick points of knowing, OK, this is before the big question, but it may be leading up to the question.
06:00And credit to Ari and Cynthia.
06:03I mean, they I didn't have to sit there the night before and be like, hey, what this is what's happening.
06:09Like they were in it like I've never seen anyone.
06:11It was like veterans that were doing this.
06:14And I thought Cynthia and well, both of your leading ladies, but Cynthia is like a sort of badass character.
06:20Yeah.
06:21She looks no nonsense.
06:22And when she swoops, I've seen it.
06:25And when she swoops in in that first scene.
06:28Yeah.
06:29Wow.
06:29I know.
06:30I was scared.
06:31I wanted to see her in her full power.
06:33Like she finally steps out at the end of movie one and you want to see like, OK, what does that become?
06:38Yeah.
06:38How badass can she be?
06:40There was this and I think it's, you know, when you look at a musical, you can think of it as like, oh, it's just dancing and singing and dancing.
06:48And it feels like almost like it turns into a comedy.
06:50But actually, for me, when I was as a theater kid, loving musicals, going to musicals every weekend to shows in San Francisco, whether ballet season, opera season or musical season.
07:00And a lover of music and playing music, music has always spoken to me in a much deeper place.
07:08You know, when you have your breakup and you're running on the treadmill and you hear that song and it allows you to feel things and really go deeper with it and dance as well.
07:18I was never a dancer dancer, but I was friends with all these dancers and they're the ones who would help me on my films and stuff.
07:26But I got to know them so deeply.
07:27And I think movement can also do that.
07:29So using all those tools to get into a character and to understand a relationship much deeper.
07:35I think people just sort of like, oh, musical, whatever.
07:38But this is actually allows you to get closer to the drama of it.
07:42I mean, the thing about musical theater is that they've got to have triple threats.
07:44They've got to act.
07:45They've got to be able to sing.
07:45They've got to dance.
07:46They've got to have presence.
07:47And your leading ladies have this, don't they?
07:50So what did you say to Ariana and Cynthia for part?
07:55Did you say, listen, you've got to step up.
07:57You've got to do this step.
07:58And the other one, how did they?
08:00Yeah, I mean, this is the first time Ariana has to lead a movie.
08:05So that is a giant responsibility.
08:07And not everyone can do that.
08:09You have to have an energy that sustains.
08:12And not just one movie.
08:13Oh, you're in charge of two movies.
08:16Cynthia has that presence.
08:17And she's done it before.
08:18So they actually really were, it's beautiful to watch them grow.
08:21They were really helping each other.
08:23And again, we were partners in this.
08:27This wasn't me as the director saying, hey, this is what the scene is.
08:30You need to step here, blink here, go over this way.
08:33To me, the way I, there's some directors who do that.
08:35And that's great.
08:36And they're genius.
08:37And I love those movies.
08:38For me, I'm not that kind of person.
08:40I'm not that smart, to be honest.
08:43I love to find it.
08:44I love to find it.
08:44Oh, come on.
08:44Just on this blockbuster.
08:45Yeah, thank you.
08:46But I love to find it.
08:47I love to find it with my actors.
08:48And I love to find it with my DP.
08:50And I love to all of us be in the same soup.
08:52And squeeze it as hard as we can.
08:54And that means that we have to leave room for us to have a lot of discussion, to prioritize
09:01that over technical stuff on the day.
09:05And it seems sort of paradoxical because a musical is also very technical.
09:10I mean, you have the prerecords.
09:12You have the BPMs that have to go.
09:15You have their earwigs that have to be in their ears.
09:16So it doesn't feel as naturalistic as you'd want.
09:19But we try to make it so, so you can get the most truth out of what they're doing.
09:23And so we had a pianist, a live pianist there all the time.
09:27And so for me with them was just like, let's just dig at the truth.
09:30The good news is they were such great singers, so experienced with an earwig that that wasn't
09:34a thing for them.
09:35And I'd done stuff with that.
09:37So it wasn't a thing for me.
09:39I'd done big movies, big visual effects movies.
09:42I've done big dance numbers.
09:44None of that was a technical challenge for me.
09:46Of course, we're doing it at a scale we've never done.
09:48But it wasn't the focus.
09:49When you get an amazing crew, what it allows you to do is have space to say, okay, we're
09:54only now we're just trying to get the truth on this little sensor and through this lens.
09:59And so that's what we focused on.
10:00We said, hey, ignore everything else.
10:03Ignore the green.
10:04Ignore the stuff.
10:05Let's just like look at what this character would do here right now.
10:09And what I thought was beautiful, and it reminded me, you know, the sort of big epics of the
10:1350s and 60s of, you know, you've got the big sweeping dance numbers and show busy numbers,
10:18but then intimate moments.
10:21And we shouldn't give too much away here.
10:23But, you know, there's some lovely scenes between Johnny Bailey and Cynthia, Cynthia's
10:27Elphaba.
10:27Yeah.
10:28And how did you get them to do what they do?
10:31Well, you're going to have to see that part.
10:34Again, you know, what's great when you hire great actors, they are not swept up in the
10:42presentation of it.
10:45They're swept up in, okay, they are falling in love.
10:49We don't have a lot of time for them to fall in love.
10:51It's just not built like that.
10:53So we have to watch them fall in love.
10:55So a song like As Long As Your Mind, for people who know the show, is when, you know,
10:59they're actually knee to knee on the ground holding each other.
11:01And her first words are, kiss me too fiercely.
11:05And so you're like, okay, and the whole song is about this intense moment.
11:10But what we found is like, well, we don't, I don't believe that they're there at this
11:14point in this movie.
11:15So the intention of this song has to shift a little bit.
11:18We can get there, but maybe it's about them finding each other.
11:21Maybe it's more hesitant.
11:23Maybe when she says, kiss me too fiercely, she's hoping, she's yearning for like, will
11:28he or won't he or will I or won't I?
11:30And maybe it's not necessarily about him at first.
11:34Maybe they've just escaped and they're just trying to get their breath back.
11:37And they've just gotten so close to the wizard and Glinda again.
11:40And it was almost too close to the sun and they just need a release.
11:44And so they're separate in their worlds and they're watching each other during the
11:47beginning of this.
11:48And we watch them closer and closer.
11:49And he's looking around at the nest that she's built since the last movie.
11:52And it's beautiful.
11:53She's made a home for herself.
11:54And he's looking at the process.
11:55She's collected all the propaganda that they say about her.
11:58How wicked she is.
11:59How evil she is.
12:00And he's looking at it.
12:01He's like, you survived this.
12:05You have created a beautiful place.
12:06And he says, you're beautiful.
12:09And she won't believe it.
12:10And she says, you don't have to lie to me.
12:13And he steps all the way to her.
12:15And then he gets on his knees and he looks at her.
12:18And he says, I'm not lying.
12:19And she's almost, she doesn't, she resists it.
12:22She's like, well, then what is it?
12:23What is it if you're not lying to me?
12:26And he says, it's just seeing things in a different way.
12:29And that connection allows the song to emerge from that.
12:33So it's not sexual.
12:35It is like more intimate and sensual.
12:37And I think that's what allows this song to become what it felt like on stage.
12:42Because on stage, you have a different barrier to cross.
12:44And you feel those things.
12:45But we have to actually take the audience step by step into how it feels to follow.
12:50I mean, your film has to eclipse the stage show, which it does.
12:53And, you know, and bring passion.
12:55Well, thank you so much, John Chu.
12:57John M. Chu.
12:59Thank you for making great movies.
13:01Thank you for Wicked, parts one and two.
13:04Thank you, yes.
13:05And we look forward to seeing you again.
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