00:30Minister Tsoiu, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to the show.
00:32Thank you for having us.
00:34So I'd like to start with security and defence,
00:36because Romania has experienced several instances of drones violating its airspace,
00:41most recently in early September.
00:44How do you assess the scale of this threat to Romania's security?
00:49We're a country that is safe, because we have our own capacity to defend,
00:54but also because we have the allied forces present in Romania.
00:58But also, we have been here together with our Ministry of Defence, Mr. Jonas Mostanu.
01:03On his side, alongside the other ministries and in the NATO format,
01:07they are working on the preparedness and the increase of our military capacity.
01:12On our side, even in events from the civil society,
01:17as has been the one from the Friends of Europe and Jacques Delors Foundation recently,
01:21we're working on the societal resilience.
01:23What do I mean by that is that even if the general audience has typically noticed
01:29the actual incursion into our airspace, and other countries as well, by the Russian drones,
01:36those have always been together with misinformation campaigns,
01:40with the tests that Russia has put on our democracy, on our information spaces,
01:45to also try to change the narrative around those incursions.
01:48We'll get to that issue of societal threat that you mentioned,
01:54but on the military side, can you give us a sense of whether Romania is actually prepared
01:59to shoot down these intruding drones and aircrafts if they're considered a real threat?
02:05Yes, we are prepared.
02:07We have changed our laws recently, so we allow for the pilots of the planes
02:13that are following the drones to shoot, if that is the case.
02:16Also, we have changed the legislation, so we allow for different air defense systems
02:21to be able to also, in the case it is needed, to shoot them down.
02:25It has actually been the case with the recent drone incursion
02:28that the Minister of Defense has given the approval to shoot down the drones.
02:32It is always a matter, though, of assessing the risk,
02:36whether the actual shooting down of the drone doesn't create more risk on the ground
02:40than the potential risk from the drone itself.
02:43But we do have the capacity, the political will and decision.
02:46If we can contribute to diminish the risks that are created on Ukrainian territory,
02:52we're going to contribute to that as well, making sure that if they enter our territory,
02:57we are ready to use our capacity to take them down.
03:00Because you are on the front line, you have the EU's longest land border with Ukraine.
03:04Your government has also said it wants to partner with Ukraine
03:07to build more drones, defensive drones.
03:10Can you give us more information about the scale of that partnership?
03:14When could these drones be operational?
03:16So we have had conversation at the defense level,
03:18but also at the foreign affairs level and governmental level,
03:21to create common projects, but also to create the needed laws and needed approvals
03:28so that the private sphere also advances faster in that direction.
03:33For example, we already have in the private industries projects that are Romanian-Ukrainian
03:38in the sense that they also test the drones commonly, using their common knowledge,
03:45and they have also recently acquired investments from the United States.
03:49We want to continue with even more projects, even from the public sphere,
03:53and to be able to have that not just for our own needs in terms of military procurement and capacity,
04:01but also to create this offering together with combat-tested know-how that the Ukrainians now have
04:09in order to have that offering for other states that might need them.
04:13So you're talking about the potential to use these to protect the eastern flank beyond Romania?
04:18Yes, we're assessing now potential projects that do not only produce for our own needs,
04:25but can also create an offering for other countries that want to increase their capacity.
04:30Because when we look at the defense priority, it is clearly that now we have a commitment
04:35at the NATO side, but also at the European level side, to increase our budgets,
04:40to be able to meet that ambition.
04:42You mentioned NATO commitment, EU commitments.
04:44The commitments are certainly there.
04:46We have various initiatives now in order to protect the eastern flank, the so-called drone wall.
04:51The EU has just said that it thinks that could be fully functional by 2027.
04:57Do you agree with that assessment?
04:58We agree with that assessment, and we believe time is of the essence.
05:02Even when we look at the procurements from now on, time is going to be an essential element.
05:07And we have seen that in many other countries, that it is not just about the budget or the capacity
05:13or even the strategic partnerships between countries, but it has increasingly become a conversation
05:19that looks at the time element more.
05:22Because obviously we feel the risk more present than we have done before Russia has started
05:28this unprovoked aggression towards Ukraine.
05:30You also met with the U.S. Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, just recently.
05:37On Ukraine, what was your message to him and his administration?
05:41We have talked about our common ambition to help to have a peace deal in Ukraine as well,
05:49but also about our reluctance in terms of what we see coming from Russia.
05:53We do not see the proper action, gestures, or decisions in that direction.
05:58That is why we are having a continuous conversation on the increase of pressure.
06:04We agree in Romania, and I have mentioned this to Secretary of State Marco Rubio as well,
06:09that the ambition that President Trump has put forward, the request actually,
06:13to members of the European Union to cut off from energy sources from Russia that generate profit
06:20that then is used to fund the war, is the proper decision.
06:24Romania has taken that decision for a while now.
06:26Some of the other countries in the region, though, are not aligned with you on this.
06:31They want to continue buying Russian gas.
06:35Do you think President Trump can put pressure on them to change their minds?
06:40Well, I think President Trump has shown that he is willing to use the power of the United States
06:45and the power of his messages to create pressure where he considers that is the case.
06:51I also think that what is needed is to have alternatives,
06:54in the sense that it is needed in our continent to have energy sources that are clean,
07:01that are reliable, and that are at the right pricing to allow for that decoupling to happen.
07:08We have seen, for example, energy be used as a war weapon by Russia towards Moldova, for example,
07:16and it has been very important that together with Moldova and Ukraine,
07:20with help from the European Commission, we've managed to mitigate that very fast.
07:24We'll come on to the issue of Moldova in just a bit.
07:27But you mentioned earlier on these societal threats in Romania,
07:31and over the past year, especially since that presidential runoff was cancelled back in December,
07:37but there's been a lot of scrutiny on democracy in Romania.
07:40How are you recovering from this?
07:42How are you restoring trust, not only in public institutions,
07:45but also in Romania's pro-Western path?
07:49So, Romania has always had a pro-Western path, a pro-European path, for many years now,
07:55and this has always been cleared by every Eurobarometer, every research that has been done.
08:00In the same time, we have seen our elections being threatened by foreign interference
08:05and by instruments that do not align with the principle of democracy and democratic options and votes.
08:13So, some of the things that have happened since then is that our president, Iko Shordan,
08:18has presented the full report of the informations that were gathered by the Romanian institution at that point,
08:24and he presented that report to the European leaders, but he also decided to make that public.
08:30They will continue to share the resources that they have and the lessons learned.
08:34And this is important because those threats do not disappear.
08:38Even if we have one in Romania, in Moldova, the pro-European path has won spectacularly, I would say,
08:44we believe and we expect that the interferences will continue in the sense that we see the same type of intentions
08:53in terms of malign narratives.
08:56So, it is very important that we defend ourselves, not just at the country level, but at the European Union level,
09:02and that we support countries that want to join the European Union in the same process.
09:07You mentioned Moldova. I did want to ask you, and you mentioned the spectacular, you said, victory for Maya Sandor,
09:12the president's pro-EU past party.
09:15Now, there is a sense of frustration in some countries that the EU accession process is not going quick enough.
09:21Is it time to decouple Moldova's bid from Ukraine, which is being blocked by Viktor Orban and Hungary?
09:27It's time to de-block Ukraine as well.
09:30I think that is very important now.
09:32Now, we need to focus on the merit-based approach, which practically essentially means that each country by its own merit needs to be recognized.
09:40And in that case, Moldova, but Ukraine as well, are way more ahead than where the European Union collectively acknowledges it,
09:49in the sense where you need to have not just cluster one open, but the rest of the clusters as well can be opened.
09:55And we need to not forget about the Western Balkans.
09:58And why do I mean that? It's because I've met today Montenegro, Albania.
10:02They have done spectacular work, and this is also a momentum for them.
10:07But if I may, it's a merit-based process, and you said it, but it's still being held back by political will of Viktor Orban,
10:13who wants to block Ukraine's accession.
10:15So shouldn't it be the case that for Moldova to be able to progress,
10:18that it needs to be decoupled from being coupled with Ukraine in this process?
10:22Well, I think what we need to do is to make sure also internally that we have the proper decision-making reforms,
10:29because it is clearly not just the merit of Moldova, the merit of Ukraine, Albania, Montenegro, and so on, we can go on.
10:36But it is clearly a problem that we have for ourselves if the will of 26 countries is blocked irresponsibly just by one single vote.
10:45And we need to do the proper reforms, but also fully use the current frame that we have to move forward.
10:50So you agree with European Council President Costa's proposal to change the rule,
10:55so that it's not unanimity, but a qualified majority to open the next stage?
10:59We're going to have the Council soon, and the final decision is going to come of that.
11:03But yes, Romania thinks we need to move faster, and we need to make sure we do not block our common decisions.
11:10So you support changing from unanimity on this issue?
11:13We're going to have our president present at the Council with the position,
11:18but Romania's stance is very clear towards de-blocking both Moldova and Ukraine.
11:23And you would be willing to do that through changing the rules on unanimity?
11:27As I was saying, the president is going to be present at the Council,
11:30and the final decision is going to come out of that.
11:32But Romania's position so far is to make sure that we de-block both Moldova and Ukraine.
11:37And if that is not possible, we're having a conversation that is not separate from the conversation we're having with Ukraine.
11:44We need to have the acceptance, the approval, and the support of everyone that is on board to be able to move further.
11:52I want to show you. Thank you so much.
11:54Thank you.
11:54Thank you.
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