Javed Akhtar likens Taliban to 'Muslim Nazis'

India Today

In an exclusive interview with India Today's Consulting Editor Rajdeep Sardesai, poet-lyricist Javed Akhtar criticised the 'warm reception' accorded to Afghan Taliban Foreign Minister Amir Khan Muttaqi during his visit to India. He even compared the Taliban to 'Muslim Nazis'.

Transcript

00:00Okay, let's turn from there to another big story we've been tracking.

00:04The recent visit of the Afghan foreign minister and Taliban leader,

00:08Aamir Khan Mutaki, to India continues to stir a controversy.

00:12Remember, there have been a lot of anger over why India welcomed the Taliban leader

00:17and, of course, the press conference, which originally was kept exclusively for men

00:22and the women journalists were kept away.

00:24Now, Javed Akhtar, poet-lyricist, has joined the controversy by claiming in a tweet

00:30that it was a national shame, he thought, that India had given such a warm reception

00:34to a Taliban leader, a group which, he said, thrived on fanaticism and gender discrimination.

00:43Listen in now to Javed Akhtar, Unplugged.

00:46And joining me now is a very special guest, joined by the one and only poet-lyricist, Javed Akhtar.

00:58Appreciate your joining us.

01:00Javed Akhtar ko gussa kiyo ata hai?

01:03Is how I'm putting this, Javed Bhai, to you.

01:06Because you've said on Twitter, only yesterday, in the context of the Taliban,

01:11I hang my head in shame when I see the kind of respect and reception

01:15given to the representatives of the world's worst terrorist group, Taliban,

01:20by those who beat the pulpit against all kinds of terrorists.

01:23Now, the government of India may well say, Javed Akhtar,

01:27that the Taliban today is fighting Pakistan and your enemy's enemy becomes your friend.

01:32So, how would you respond if someone told you that?

01:35Javed Akhtar, No, this is not a foolproof law that enemy's enemy is your friend.

01:44What we dislike, and for so many years India had some kind of a

01:48boycott towards South Africa because there was apartheid.

01:58And they were treating their own citizens, who were not white, like almost some humans.

02:04We protected, and we did not make any ambithadorial relations with them.

02:10We did not play cricket with them.

02:11We did not do anything with them.

02:13It was a complete boycott for years because of this reason.

02:17Now, here is a country where half of the population, which happen to be women,

02:21are treated like animals who have no right.

02:25All the schools and colleges of that country for women are closed down.

02:31Even the history books where women are important or the books about women have been removed from

02:37the university's library.

02:39Why are we entertaining them?

02:41For any reason.

02:42We have a dispute with Pakistan because of their Pakistan's regressive, communal, and violent,

02:56sometimes very violent response to our country.

03:03So we don't like them.

03:04And we say that not that we don't like every citizen of the country, but we have certain

03:10grievances, and totally justified grievances, against the system, against the army, and

03:17against the governments of, respective governments of Pakistan, who are pushing, organizing, helping,

03:23these kind of elements.

03:25All right, fine.

03:26So we are against them.

03:27But there is another country.

03:29We don't share borders with them.

03:31But what kind of policies this country has towards their own citizens?

03:35Does it not make any difference to us?

03:38Then why we were, we had boycott it in South Africa?

03:42But on what grounds?

03:43But Javed, there will be those who will say you're raising certain moral questions about

03:49the treatment of women by the Taliban.

03:51It means, all right, it means we were wrong.

03:54As I said at the outset, diplomacy, diplomacy, the government will say has no, has no place

04:00for such universal moral values.

04:03It means, in other words, say it simply, that we were wrong by boycotting and keeping

04:08away from South Africa, white South Africa.

04:12Is that your thing?

04:14Think.

04:14No, I am saying, as I said, that because of the geo-strategic compulsions, today the Taliban

04:25is at war in a way with Pakistan.

04:28And therefore, we want to encircle Pakistan, is the argument given.

04:32And therefore, we are striking a relationship.

04:34We haven't given them full diplomatic status here with Taliban.

04:37If Afghanistan would have been under the regime of Hitler, and Afghanistan and Pakistan would

04:46not have been friends, we would have been friendly with Hitler.

04:51Say it.

04:52Yes, we would be.

04:55I want to hear it.

04:56Well, I, this is for our government, this is for our government to answer.

05:06No, where do you stand?

05:08But what is your, is your principle, do you believe that the Taliban, yeah, so do you believe

05:16that the Taliban itself is a medieval mindset that has no place in modern society?

05:22That's essentially where you're coming from.

05:24Am I right?

05:25I am saying that they are treating half the population of their country as animals.

05:32Is it acceptable to us to have relations with a country of that sort?

05:40Then either we were wrong in boycotting South Africa, or we are wrong in having this kind

05:50of relationship with Pakistan for any expediency, for any reason.

05:55There could be hundreds of reasons to have good relationship with white South Africa, but

06:01we did not care for that on a principle.

06:03So you're saying principles have been abandoned here by the way the government has been seen

06:16to be virtually going out of its way to reach out to the Taliban at a time when the rest of

06:21the world, large parts of the world continue to boycott the Taliban, why should India be the

06:27country, forsaking moral principles, correct?

06:31Yes.

06:32Principles seem to be a kind of a word which is more intellectual or political than real human

06:37today in real world.

06:39In real world, the fact is, it's a matter of serious morality.

06:46It's a matter of projecting ourselves what we are willing to accept for our political advantage.

06:51What reason can be here?

06:52Till yesterday, Afghanistan was under somebody else or under some other regime.

06:57And sometimes it was not as important to us as it is today.

07:02But Pakistan is a permanent nuisance.

07:04So we were handling that.

07:06Why do we need these Muslim Nazis to solve our problem with Pakistan?

07:14We don't need them.

07:15We are powerful enough.

07:16We can take care of ourselves vis-à-vis Pakistan.

07:20Do we need Taliban?

07:22And to an extent that we are willing to allow a press conference in India, in a secular country

07:29where every woman has the right to vote, every woman has the right to become the prime minister

07:35or chief minister or ambassador or minister or whatever.

07:41That will be strictly, that was strictly for men.

07:44So there is one little, for at least for a while, there was one little Talibani black spot

07:52on the white collar of India.

07:59You used a very strong word just now, Muslim Nazis, because you say also in your tweet, shame

08:06on Devuband too, for giving such a reverent welcome to their Islamic hero, who is one of

08:12those who have completely banned girls' education, my Indian brothers and sisters.

08:17You are referring essentially to the kind of welcome the external affair, the Afghan minister

08:22Mutaki got.

08:23Tell me, define this word Muslim Nazis and why you are angry with Devuband as well?

08:29No, no.

08:30I am not angry.

08:31As a matter of fact, the fact is that they have shown their real faith.

08:34Given half a chance, they will do the same.

08:38Given a chance.

08:39They don't have that power.

08:40They don't have that position.

08:42They are receiving this Taliban ambassador, tells us, and with such warmth, tells us that

08:49this is what they appreciate.

08:52This is what they agree with.

08:55If some Shia Muslim scholar or Shia Muslim ambassador would have come to India, the doors

09:02of Devuband would not have been opened for him.

09:05So, Shia is not good enough, but this man and this regime that has closed the schools

09:12and colleges of women who want to keep them illiterate and prisoners in their own homes are

09:19perfectly alright for Devuband and they help them.

09:24They meet them with great reverence and respect and admiration in almost any way.

09:30So, they have shown their real faith by receiving this man.

09:35You know, I find it also interesting, in a way, what you are saying is that the Taliban

09:44represents a kind of fanatical Islam that has no place in modern society that gives Islam

09:49a bad name across the world.

09:51I have heard our politician Yogi Arithyanath has at times targeted Muslims saying you have

09:58a Taliban mindset and we have seen those who say there is a good Taliban and a bad Taliban.

10:04You are very clear there is only a Taliban and that Taliban practices a fanatical form

10:09of Islam that you believe has no place in modern civilized society and groups like the Devuband

10:14have shown their true face by welcoming Mutaki in the way they have.

10:19Am I correct?

10:21Yeah, very right.

10:22And you get the, I mean, two-faced situation that on one hand, if a man stands on the road

10:29with a poster or a placard, I love Muhammad, he's put in the jail.

10:35This is a fanatic attitude.

10:38I am an atheist.

10:40It doesn't make it that way personally, it doesn't make any difference to me.

10:44But I see the contradiction and then you are inviting and making this man an official

10:51state guest who has this kind of mindset and who preaches this kind of Islam.

10:58And Devuband, which is one of the most respected Islamic institutions of India, meets him with

11:05open arms and with such glee.

11:08What is, what does it tell you about so many people?

11:13People who think every Muslim is a Taliban, everyone is a Taliban and a Jihadi.

11:19Then you meet the Taliban and Jihadi with such great respect and admiration.

11:25Because, only because he's the enemy of Pakistan.

11:28So tomorrow, if Hitler would have been the enemy of Pakistan, for any reason, you would

11:33have hugged him.

11:38Just look at these Devuband people.

11:39Do you, do you make a distinction between...

11:41You see, I must tell one thing to Devuband, Ulemas and scholars.

11:47Those who openly oppose this religion called Islam are not, cannot damage Islam to this extent

11:55that a Taliban can, who ostensibly speak for Islam.

12:00And then show these kind of faiths, this kind of faith of Islam.

12:05You should be aware of this man, I mean wary of this man.

12:09And you should say what they are doing is not Islam.

12:12But by receiving them, you have accepted that perhaps that is Islam.

12:19You have controlled him.

12:20Do you believe there is a distinction between the good Taliban and the bad Taliban?

12:24Do you believe there's a distinction between the so-called good Taliban or bad Taliban?

12:28There is no distinction between good cancer and bad cancer.

12:33Is there anything like good cancer?

12:37At least I, I am not aware of it.

12:42But good Taliban...

12:43And would you therefore say that what the Taliban has done over the years...

12:48Yeah.

12:51And you, and you are very clear that the Taliban does not represent Islam or represent the wider population?

12:57No, no, no, no, no, no.

12:58I am not aware of it.

12:59I am not aware of it.

13:00I am not aware of it.

13:01I am aware of it.

13:02I am aware of it.

13:03No, no, no, no, no.

13:04That is not my expertise.

13:06I will not poke my nose in that.

13:09You see, it is for the people like, they want to decide what is real Islam, not me.

13:14I am an ignorant person.

13:15I am illiterate in these matters.

13:17So, if they receive him, what choice they have left for me?

13:22But to believe that perhaps, yes, they are admiring this man.

13:26They are meeting with such ones.

13:28While he will not, they will not invite a Shia.

13:31So, it means this must be their Islam.

13:34Who am I to decide that?

13:36It is for their one to decide, not for me.

13:38But does it also show the double standards of those in government?

13:45Many of those in government, when they were in opposition, would attack the then government

13:51for if they had reached out to the Taliban.

13:54Now, you are in power.

13:56And those who accused Indian Muslims at times of having a Taliban mindset are now embracing

14:03the Taliban.

14:04So, there seem to be double standards there also, Mr. Akron.

14:07Totally.

14:08Totally.

14:09I mean, no doubt about it.

14:10Totally.

14:11And it is very disappointing.

14:12It is very disappointing.

14:14Even if you are wrong, you better be wrong perfectly.

14:17I mean, it is so imperfect.

14:20That you are calling an Indian Muslim who says, I love Muhammad, he is a Taliban.

14:25And when the real Taliban comes, you hug him.

14:29So, what do I think of you?

14:32Okay.

14:33Okay.

14:34Point taken.

14:37Very, very strong words, Javed Akhtar.

14:39I hope that someone out there is listening to you.

14:42Sorry.

14:43I will say clear words.

14:45It is not strong.

14:46They are not strong.

14:47They are clear.

14:48Okay.

14:49Okay.

14:50Okay.

14:51Saaf hai bilkul, Javed sahab.

14:54And I appreciate you joining us.

14:56There are very few who would come out like you and speak out as firmly and clearly.

15:01And I appreciate you doing so.

15:03Thank you so much for joining me here on the news today.

15:10Muslim Nazis Is How Syjaved Akhtar described the Taliban.

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