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Tell Me What You Really Think - Season 1 Episode 3 -
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03:45I think I probably own that space.
03:47One thing I'd like to say is
03:49baby boomers were born
03:51from parents who had experienced war,
03:53deprivation, so the moment
03:55any sense of prosperity came on
03:57of course people were going to buy houses
03:59because it was affordable
04:01so that's a kind of a natural thing
04:03but we also had to contend with
04:05misogyny,
04:08racism,
04:10homophobia
04:11so my generation I think
04:13have fought hard for inclusiveness
04:15what this current generation
04:17is coming up, you know being
04:19addicted to social media etc etc
04:21I mean it's going to have its own problems
04:23all I'm saying
04:24to be even handed is that we all
04:27come from certain conditions and we go out
04:29grow in particular ways. So
04:31John, that big list of things
04:33that baby boomers get blamed for
04:35is it fair? I wouldn't necessarily
04:37blame baby boomers, I think
04:39a bit like Linda Lee
04:41I think it's the context in which
04:43people were raised, I think it's
04:45unregulated capitalism
04:47so somehow we became very selfish
04:49and greedy but
04:51I think it's more the system that
04:53people grew up in rather than
04:54any particular group of people
04:57So talk to me about ageism, what are we
04:59how well are we treating our older people in Australia?
05:01When I'm on the phone and I might be talking to an operator or something like that, when they know your age they immediately go into that, well what can I help you with dear, what's wrong dear and oh do have a nice day and I think oh fuck's sake, you know, get over it.
05:19How are we today?
05:20Yeah. How are we today? How are we today? How are we and how are you feeling? What are you going to do for the rest of the day? Well I'm going for a fucking walk around the block. What are you doing?
05:38It really shits me when they assume because I've got grey hair that I'm technologically incompetent and I've been using computers since before most of them were born.
05:52We're treated like two year olds, you know. I just fight against ageism all the time. I wear what I like, I do what I like, but a lot of people aren't empowered enough to do that. They've been oppressed all their lives.
06:07Can I ask you about your mate down there? Introduce me to your friend over here.
06:12Ms. Redley?
06:13Yeah.
06:14She's a trained assistance dog and because of my variant of dementia I have behaviour variant frontotemporal dementia.
06:20So get excited. I may take my clothes off at any minute. I may just abuse the crap out of you because you give me the shits.
06:29Okay. How am I doing so far?
06:30Well I don't know anything about you. I've never heard of you before so you're okay.
06:35You're quite a good looking fella but you'll do. I really have lost my social filter.
06:43Yeah.
06:43And I try. I try very hard. But when I get agitated or distressed, readily straight on, if I started telling you to get fucked right now and she's immediately there and she keeps me functioning.
06:58John, do you reckon you've ever been on the receiving end of ageism?
07:01No, I don't think so. But then I'm in a very privileged position. But I think we could do an awful lot to make our communities more age friendly.
07:10And if it was obvious to older people that the community, the government at all three levels was taking the needs of older people seriously, that would do a lot to get rid of ageism.
07:23Are older women treated differently to older men?
07:26Yes.
07:27How so?
07:28Actually, older women are still expected to do things. They're seen as useless in a physical sense, as in they can't lift up a table and chairs or do things like that.
07:40But I think they're also expected to continue caring, continue in their caring roles, whereas older men tend to be thrown on the scrap heap.
07:50You know, they really, if you can't mow the lawns anymore, what good are you? You're not going to work and bring in the dollar. You're not mowing the lawns. What can you do?
08:01Women do older age much better than men. And the reason is that their social role continues, because they've always been daughters, mothers, sisters, friends.
08:11They have more friends. Whereas men define themselves much more by their occupation or their profession. And when that's no longer there, they don't then have another social role to easily fall into.
08:23But it's not that other people think they're useless. They think it's that self, well, I think I'm useless. And if their sense of self isn't tied to physical capacity, sexual prowess, earning a living, you know, kind of those kind of roles, then that's when they chuck themselves on the scrap heap as much as someone else chucking them on the scrap heap.
08:43I have to go there. They can still have sexual prowess. If they don't, we can help them.
08:48Well, that's a whole idea.
08:48No, we've got to go there, because that's what we've got to talk about today.
08:52I'm a sex therapist. I go there a lot.
08:54Let's talk about sex.
08:55Yeah, absolutely.
08:57What's that?
08:58Sex?
08:59Yes.
08:59Are you missing out?
09:00Oh, big time. I haven't been laid for about 15 years.
09:06And how do you feel about that?
09:08Shocking. Dreadful.
09:11Going to residential care, you'll be right.
09:14We can't talk about it. We've got to pretend it doesn't.
09:17There's a reaction in other generations when you bring up the concept of people over the age of 70 having sex.
09:23Oh, the ick factor.
09:24Yeah, why? Why does that happen, do you think?
09:26Because we were so secretive. We were taught, we were brought up not to talk about it.
09:30Oh, another thing to blame baby boomers on. It's your own fault.
09:33But, that's right. But they forget we were the liberated generation as well. We burnt our bras.
09:40Yeah, OK.
09:41We had sex in public places.
09:43So, Linda, you are a sex therapist.
09:46Yes.
09:46When older people come to you, what are the sorts of problems they're presenting with? What do they want help with?
09:52Mismatched libido is the most hot topic always.
09:56And so, what sort of, like, advice do you give? Like, are there practical tips that you find yourself giving over and over again for older clients?
10:01Know what you want. Ask for what you want. Be prepared to call a boundary.
10:06I don't think people know what they like.
10:08And because there's a fairly standard sexual script, particularly the heteronormative sexual script, there's the, there might be kissing, maybe some erogenous zone touching, perhaps some oral sex, penis in vagina, intercourse.
10:19The guy comes, it's all over Red Rover.
10:22And quite often, women will fake it, fake an orgasm, because that's, they're expected to have an orgasm.
10:29And if they say that they haven't, there's conflict as a result.
10:32So, getting, chucking out the script and going, hey, well, what do you like? How do you know what you like?
10:37Let's explore and find out, play, pleasure, curiosity.
10:40Gwenda, how have your sexual preferences changed since you've got a diagnosis for dementia?
10:45I've become pansexual. I accept everybody for who they are. I'll go with anybody, basically.
10:52That had a pulse?
10:53No, I didn't even have to have a pulse.
10:55Oh, vegetable would be fun.
10:56I can tell you, cucumbers are better than men.
10:59Now you tell me.
11:02But then I went through a different stage.
11:05I changed from being a heterosexual woman to being pansexual.
11:10But about three years ago, I became asexual.
11:16Oh, okay.
11:17Here I am advocating for the rights of older people to have sexual relationships.
11:21But I've actually lost all interest.
11:23I did say to one of my sons, I'd have to be pretty good now with all, you know, all my wrinkles.
11:28I'd have to be in the dark.
11:29He said, you forget that everybody else who'd come near you would be the same way.
11:32But seriously, we have to stop this argument that people with dementia don't have capacity.
11:40And this is where in residential care, there's a huge responsibility on providers because they have to keep me safe.
11:46But they also have a duty to allow me to meet my needs.
11:50And this is where Bluetooth penis sheets, Bluetooth vibrators come into their own.
11:56Who's controlling the other end of the Bluetooth?
11:58Well, it can actually be staff, it can actually be a volunteer, it can actually be a paid sex worker who's giving you a hug while they're doing it.
12:05We can get paid sex workers into residential care.
12:08On the gay scene, there is and always has been ageism.
12:15Once you reach a certain age, you might as well be dead, really.
12:20I'd like someone to cuddle up to and things like that, you know.
12:26But who doesn't need a cuddle?
12:29Well, that kind of raises an interesting kind of point.
12:32At the chapter of lives that you're in at the moment, how much of it is about intimacy and connection and how much of it is it about pleasure?
12:38I think it's much more about relationships and that shared intimacy.
12:42I think if you've had a close relationship with someone for a long time, that intimacy continues.
12:51It may not be terribly physical, but, you know, it's a very beautiful thing to do at the end of the day to just be together.
13:00Stan?
13:00I was about to say that I've met a lot of straight married men that have hidden in the closet for years and they always say, and I say to them, well, why did you get married?
13:18And they said, because I had to.
13:21Yeah, I've had, in relation to my clients, I've had, I have worked with people who've been in that experience, who've been by all their lives and felt obliged to shut it down for all kinds of reasons.
13:32And then when they're free to express themselves, it's like, it's like going through another adolescence, except, except you're in your 60s.
13:42Not that long ago, reaching your 60s meant entering the final chapter of life.
13:47But baby boomers are flipping that script.
13:51Let's wind back to the birth of this generation.
13:53From 1946 to 1964, Australia celebrated the end of World War II with an unprestentered baby bonanza.
14:01At the time, life expectancy was around 66 for men and 71 for women.
14:06Today, those figures sit at 81 for men and 85 for women.
14:11Couple that with the fact that the baby boom has well and truly busted and you have got yourself an ageing population.
14:18In 1950, around 8% of Australians were over 65.
14:22By next year, it will be 22%.
14:25This year, even the youngest boomer turns 61.
14:30Here's the other thing.
14:31Baby boomers aren't just living longer, they're working longer too.
14:35In the past two decades, the average age of retirement has gone from around 57 to 65.
14:41And some of them don't want to retire at all.
14:46John, are you still working?
14:48Yes, I'm semi-retired, but I'm still working as a geriatrician.
14:53Medically speaking, is there a right age to retire?
14:56Probably well before my age, probably.
15:01I should have retired.
15:03No, I think you go on until you feel you've had enough.
15:10When it no longer gives you satisfaction, that's probably the age to retire.
15:15But retiring requires a decision, Mark.
15:19That's the problem.
15:20Right.
15:21Why is that a problem?
15:22Maybe I'm not very good at decisions, but eventually, you know, I feel I'll know there's a time.
15:29So, Stan, you're 84, yes?
15:32I'm 84, yes.
15:33Are you still working?
15:34I'm still doing a show here, there and everywhere, and it's called Vintage Drag in Mint Condition.
15:45And it involves me on stage, and I'm interviewed on stage, and there's a big screen behind me, and it shows pictures and movies that I've had the luck to appear in.
16:02But jobs are very thin on the ground at the moment.
16:13Lindy, what does a good retirement look like to you?
16:18That's a ridiculous question to ask an artist.
16:21An artist just doesn't retire.
16:23Okay.
16:23Well, because it's your vocation.
16:25You know, you have to be really stupid to be an artist.
16:28It's the only thing you want to do with your life.
16:30You are compelled.
16:31It's a compulsion.
16:32So, I'm afraid that's just that.
16:36Retirement, I think I've said, you know, like I'm 71, or 71 in a minute.
16:42No one's counting, it's fine.
16:43But I just feel as if I've started.
16:47Yeah, it's interesting, because you've just unveiled this sculpture that is, I think it's one of the most expensive, elaborate sculptures in Australian history.
16:53And I've heard you say that it was just your apprenticeship.
16:56Why did you say that?
16:58Because it takes a long time for ideas to bake if you're an artist.
17:03You know, I think you have to take a long apprenticeship to your own humanity, and a long apprenticeship to being open to the world.
17:13And then with a bit of luck, and you're practicing all the time, doing all of this, then you're ready to really start making stuff.
17:21That's what I feel right now.
17:23Coming up.
17:24Okay, so this is a measure of your basal metabolic rate.
17:27I've become a human lab rat to see just how badly my body is aging.
17:32And we're using this to get an idea of stroke risk.
17:37And we explore the bleeding edge of longevity science.
17:41Right here.
17:43I think it's a useless, very selfish experiment this guy's doing.
17:50Happy birthday, dear Eileen.
17:55Happy birthday to you.
18:00The number of Australians living to 100 has skyrocketed in recent decades.
18:05I wish a wish come true.
18:08I wish a wish the same for you.
18:11But making it to 110, like Eileen Kramer, well, that remains extremely rare.
18:17Oh, I don't mind being called 110.
18:21I just don't like the general idea of oldness.
18:29Eileen is a renowned dancer who began her career in 1940 with one of Australia's very first modern dance companies.
18:36And today, she is what statisticians call a super centenarian.
18:41Well, that could all change thanks to a rapidly growing industry that wants to cheat death.
19:09Right here.
19:13We're at this special moment in time.
19:14We have this opportunity to build an existence that is, like, actually much more expansive and interesting than anything we can imagine.
19:23Brian Johnson is the poster boy slash middle-aged man of the longevity movement, or as he sometimes likes to call it, the don't die movement.
19:33The future is better than we are.
19:35This 48-year-old reportedly spends $2 million US dollars a year to effectively become an 18-year-old again.
19:44Yes, you might have heard of him.
19:45He's the guy that injected a litre of his 17-year-old son's blood into himself.
19:50That's me in a bag.
19:51And then gave a litre of his own blood to his father.
19:55And now he claims that he has the erections of a teenager.
19:59He might be a little crazy, but he's far from alone in the longevity train.
20:06Which is how you find this freshly 40-year-old TV presenter here at a longevity clinic in Sydney.
20:14I've come to see this man, Dr Adam Brown, who is going to carry out a bit of an investigation into the state of my decrepit aging body.
20:23We take a proactive approach to healthcare, rather than sort of a whack-a-mole approach.
20:28Right, well, I'm in your hands.
20:33Where do you want to start?
20:35I suppose the essence of the clinic is we want to get as much biodata as possible.
20:42And that means blood tests.
20:44Lots of them.
20:45That's an insane amount of blood.
20:48Then come the ultrasounds.
20:50And we're using this to get an idea of stroke risk.
20:54How does it look?
20:55Your arteries are looking excellent.
20:58Why thank you.
20:59Glucose monitors.
21:03A VO2 max fitness test.
21:06So VO2 max is massively associated with longevity.
21:10Sure, unless it kills you first.
21:12How was that?
21:13Good.
21:15Then there's the DEXA scan.
21:17And currently we're measuring Mark's muscle mass and his fat mass.
21:24Whatever this is.
21:27Okay, so this is a measure of your basal metabolic rate.
21:31Strength tests.
21:32Go on, Will.
21:34Oh, okay.
21:35One, let's go.
21:35Squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze.
21:37And drop.
21:38Great depth.
21:39Keep that range.
21:4024.
21:41And lots of questions.
21:43So another thing we picked up on your preliminary assessment was your sleep duration.
21:50Yes.
21:51Tell me about that.
21:52I have never been much of a sleeper.
21:55I tend to do, on average, sort of four to five hours.
21:58Anyone who sleeps for an average of under six hours a night, there is a sort of slight increased risk of Alzheimer's disease.
22:05What about your bowel motions?
22:07Yeah.
22:07Do you feel like when you go that it's a full evacuation?
22:12Ooh.
22:13Um.
22:14Yeah, that one you're just going to have to use your imagination.
22:16All of this, I don't think it's a secret.
22:19It's not necessarily cheap.
22:21Who comes to you?
22:22Like, what sort of people are coming to you for these sorts of tests?
22:24Sometimes you get the, you know, the 50-year-old hardworking CEO of a company.
22:30You know, he's let his career take over his life and sort of let neglected other parts of his life.
22:37You get another sort of patient who feels like they're extremely fit and healthy.
22:41But we can always find something wrong with people, even if they think they're perfect.
22:45I'm going to come back to Adam for the verdict on my health.
22:48But that was a five-hour appointment that normally comes with a $6,000 bill.
22:53There's only going to be a teeny-tiny percentage of the population that can really take advantage of something like this clinic.
23:02Meanwhile, over in Newcastle...
23:04There's culture out there.
23:17That once you're 60 or 70 or 80, we need to just, you know, wrap you in cotton wool and get you ready to die.
23:26Society is telling you you're old and you're weak, but you're not.
23:30Groundwork fitness is not your average gym.
23:34And Carl Vestig is definitely not your average fitness influencer.
23:38Speaking, I guess, for myself, because I have cerebral palsy, the whole thing around me would have been cotton wool.
23:45That's what's happening with the old age here, is that you look at Google and put in strength training for seniors,
23:51and you just see those happy, shiny faces with two-kilo dumbbells sitting on a ball.
23:58We can do better.
23:59So how happy are we talking?
24:01You've got 70, 80-year-olds in here.
24:03What are they lifting?
24:04We've got a 75-year-old here that started on 13 kilos and now lifts 78 kilos.
24:09We've got a 70-plus-year-old male lifting 120-kilo deadlift.
24:15The funny thing is, everyone's going to look at that and go,
24:18or wow, that's amazing and wow, but it's not.
24:21It should be the norm.
24:24I am getting stronger and I'm feeling stronger.
24:26I am amazed at some of the weights that I'm lifting now.
24:30Probably I've got a bit of a problem.
24:31I'm a bit gung-ho and I have to get told to, you know, hang on, just draw back a bit there, mister.
24:38Why is it so important for older people to do strength training?
24:41It just helps in a myriad of different ways.
24:43So whether it's lifestyle, you've got picking up grandkids, you've got groceries, you've got walking upstairs.
24:51This is what's going to help people stay living independently.
24:55The driving force for me is that I'm a carer.
24:57My husband's got dementia and so I need to be fit enough, really, to be looking after him.
25:03And the reason I came here is because after post-op surgery on my knees,
25:07having knee replacements and hip replacements, I was just getting stiffer and stiffer.
25:10So now I can squat down and just, you know, get straight back up.
25:15A massive improvement.
25:17There'll be, I think, lots of people watching this thinking,
25:21I couldn't possibly do that, what if I get injured.
25:24What do you say to people?
25:26Well, I've all got cerebral palsy and bone on bone with my knee and I'm still training.
25:32So basically, no excuses.
25:35Not even for me.
25:36So we're going to start with some deadlifts.
25:39So this is probably one of the big forex size that we do here.
25:43Push your belly through your thighs.
25:45Take a big breath of air and just pull it up your shins.
25:48Straight up and then straight down.
25:51Tits to the wall and balls to the floor for me.
25:54Right.
25:56Yep.
25:56And then straight down.
25:57This is the biggest bang for your buck.
26:00Like, if you're on a desert island, you can only do one lift.
26:03They always say it's either a deadlift or a squat.
26:06How did you get into weightlifting?
26:09My parents got me to start to lift when I was 14 years old, you know.
26:15If I don't lift or mainly do deadlifts and squats,
26:19of course, they'll be kind of going backwards and, yeah, apparently into a wheelchair.
26:25Up, down, breathe out.
26:27Breathe in.
26:28That's better.
26:29Yeah, good.
26:30I'll admit, this is not my first time in a gym,
26:32but the vibe of this place is unlike anything I've ever experienced.
26:36I don't think other people want to go in and have, you know,
26:40the peacocks walking around and the roid monkeys and the mirrors and the loud music.
26:44My history with gyms is diabolical, except for this one.
26:49When we were going to some of the other gyms,
26:52their focus wasn't on you.
26:54It was on the young, fit, beautiful people.
26:57This is like exercising with all your friends, your good friends.
27:02It's a really happy place to come to.
27:05Happy and potentially life-saving.
27:08One in four people, once they get a hip fracture,
27:10end up in the cemetery 12 months later.
27:12So, if you're building yourself up for bone and muscle strength,
27:19you're going to save yourself a trip to the hospital
27:21or a trip to the cemetery just by being stronger.
27:26Down.
27:28Ah.
27:29Eileen Kramer may not be a lifter.
27:32Down.
27:33But she is militant about exercise.
27:35Touch your toes.
27:37Ah.
27:39And cross your eyes.
27:41And she has another weapon.
27:44I said to her today,
27:45everybody's going to ask you what your secret is.
27:47And she said,
27:49have something meaningful to do.
27:51And that sort of applies however old you are.
27:55But it sort of even more applies to you
27:57when everything else kind of falls away.
28:00She wakes up every day and decides what to create.
28:04Be that doing a drawing,
28:06making a story,
28:10writing a story,
28:11choreographing a dance.
28:13And that's what keeps her alive.
28:15I think I'm just getting started.
28:19Back to the longevity clinic.
28:21What are my chances of joining Eileen
28:23in the ranks of the super centenarians?
28:26We've got some great news
28:28and some to work on news.
28:31Yes.
28:31So we'll start with the good.
28:33So basically,
28:35your lean mass,
28:36so your muscle mass,
28:38you are scoring above average
28:41for your height.
28:42Okay.
28:43Basically,
28:43we want this score to be as high as possible
28:45because as we get older in life,
28:47our muscle mass tends to reduce.
28:49So we need a reserve.
28:50So there is some stuff to work on.
28:53Yep.
28:53As with everyone.
28:55I feel like you're buttering me up.
28:56Yeah.
28:57Soften the blow.
28:58Yeah.
28:58So I think the blow might be that I'm too soft.
29:02So the next thing we look at is the fat mass index.
29:05So your FMI was eight.
29:08So this kind of puts you in the,
29:10well, the normal range is between three and six.
29:13So it puts you in the sort of excess fat category.
29:18So again, something to work on.
29:19Mm.
29:20My final report from the clinic runs to 50 pages
29:24with some very sensible suggestions
29:26around diet and exercise.
29:28It also suggests that I consider some supplements
29:30that, whilst not proven for humans,
29:32do extend the lives of ageing rats and fruit flies.
29:36As for Brian Johnson,
29:38despite a few setbacks,
29:40he says he's now building a religion
29:42that will become the fastest growing ideology in history.
29:46What do you think of this world of longevity science?
29:51Well, I think there's two sides to this.
29:54One is what this guy's doing,
29:56which I think is both ridiculous and counterproductive.
29:59This is a very selfish N equals one experiment he's doing.
30:04How much more valuable it would be
30:06if he was putting that money into randomised controlled trials
30:09of some of the things he's doing.
30:11He's doing a dozen different things.
30:13Nobody's going to know in the end
30:14whether any of those helped
30:16or any of those killed him or whatever happens.
30:18So I think it's a useless,
30:21very selfish experiment this guy's doing.
30:25However, there are serious researchers
30:27working on longevity science
30:30and I don't see any big problem with that
30:33because I think everybody who's reached a certain age,
30:37like Stan and I have reached the age of 80,
30:40we would like to go on living a reasonably healthy,
30:44disability-free life for as long as possible.
30:47But I think it's much more important
30:50to be thinking about putting life into years
30:54than years into life.
30:56Lindy, what do you think about longevity science?
31:00Oh, God, it frustrates me
31:02because it's just...
31:03It's so anti-life, actually.
31:06You know, and, yeah, sure, try it,
31:07but you cannot ever know the moment of your death.
31:10You cannot know genetically
31:11if you're predisposed to live to 50 or 110.
31:15None of those things are within your control.
31:19Look, it's really important to be healthy.
31:21It's really...
31:22I swim two kilometres most day, you know,
31:24because that's just my thing.
31:25I like to be fit.
31:27I like to eat reasonably well.
31:29But I have no idea the moment I'm going to die,
31:32I have no idea that all of the things
31:33that I am doing with my life
31:35won't end in cancer or whatever.
31:37and what frustrates me
31:39is because all of your eggs are being put over
31:42in that basket of reaching 150 years old
31:45or something like that
31:46and what you're missing out on
31:48is your life right now.
31:50Stan, if I could give you a pill
31:51that would make you young again,
31:53would you take it?
31:56Yes, I would take it.
31:58I hate the thought of dying.
32:00Yeah?
32:00I just want to be alive forever.
32:05I've got a habit of...
32:07If I'm sitting out on the bench outside IGA,
32:13I will ask a person sitting next to me,
32:17how old are you?
32:20And they will say,
32:21oh, I might be 65.
32:23And I think to myself,
32:26fuck, I've done well.
32:28You know, because I walk everywhere.
32:31I've never driven a car.
32:33And every morning I'm up at 6.30
32:35and I'm exercising the dog.
32:38But I do, I go to the gym.
32:42But it's what you put in your mouth.
32:47I'm very pedantic about my diet and everything.
32:51I would love to have a hunk of that bread,
32:54but I know it's probably...
32:56It'll show up on my waist.
32:59You know what I mean?
33:00Well, I think if you're talking about a good older age,
33:04I mean, the short answer is you need three things.
33:08Something or someone to love,
33:10something to do,
33:11and something to look forward to.
33:14And most of those are available to most people.
33:16You've got to exercise,
33:18you've got to sleep,
33:19seven to nine hours a night,
33:20you've got to eat sensibly,
33:23you've got to drink alcohol moderately,
33:25very moderately,
33:26not smoke,
33:27look after your cardiac risk factors.
33:29But the most important factor by a mile,
33:32just above exercise,
33:33is the relationship business.
33:35So that's the secret,
33:36real secret to ageing,
33:38is to establish and keep those relationships.
33:41Well, I've failed on all counts,
33:42so there's no hope for me.
33:43I eat what I like when I like to sleep,
33:46a couple of hours at the time.
33:48I think sense of purpose is what keeps...
33:51Sense of purpose.
33:52You've got to have a sense of purpose.
33:54But I'm the wrong person to talk to about longevity,
33:56because I've been so ready to die for so long.
34:00If I go out and get hit by a car today,
34:02don't cry for me.
34:05Just be grateful that you've met me before.
34:07Every day I'll wake up and think,
34:09bugger, I'm still here.
34:11Still to come.
34:13Whoop!
34:13Whoop!
34:14The technology that could keep you out of aged care.
34:18Without my technology here at home,
34:20I couldn't function.
34:21It's helped me to survive.
34:24And what to do when you're ready to die.
34:28I am going to walk naked at a new beach.
34:33I can sort of determine the time of my death.
34:37I'm not scared of death.
34:46Death is the easy bit, really.
34:49It's what comes before death that's the hard bit.
34:51At the age of 66,
35:04I was diagnosed with frontal temporal dementia.
35:08That's the sort of diagnosis that nobody wants.
35:12People say,
35:14oh, you don't look as if you've got dementia.
35:16I'm not quite sure how people want me to look.
35:23There are hundreds and hundreds of different types of dementia.
35:26Alzheimer's the most common.
35:28But we all have different symptoms.
35:33Set the alarm to remind me I've got the washing on.
35:37Set.
35:38With frontal temporal dementia, it's not all about memory.
35:42It's not about losing your keys.
35:44It's losing everything.
35:49I became very disorganised.
35:51I lost the ability to multi-skill.
35:53And my friends said to me,
35:57you're really blunt.
35:58You're abrupt.
36:00You're interrupting us.
36:01You're quite rude.
36:03You're not the Bobby we know.
36:06About four years ago,
36:08things were getting really bad.
36:09I'd had a fire.
36:10And things were getting horribly burnt.
36:12And I was throwing away more pans than I could afford.
36:14And I had an ACAT assessment
36:17to receive assistance at home.
36:22And the assessor asked the normal questions.
36:25And she talked about the need for me
36:27to go into residential care.
36:31I said, you're kidding me?
36:33I can't go into care.
36:36I think going into residential care
36:39is everybody's worst nightmare.
36:41For those of us with dementia,
36:43we tend to get locked away.
36:47Bobby, it's time to log on for your meeting.
36:50It's about to start.
36:52Hurry up.
36:53This morning I went to the council inclusion meeting.
36:56Oh, yeah.
36:56OK.
36:57And are you going down next week
37:01to Dementia Australia and Ryan?
37:02Have you been invited down?
37:04Luckily, I have friends
37:05who are working in dementia research.
37:08And so I got on to them
37:09and I said, help me quick.
37:11They gave me all these tips
37:13and ideas
37:14and simple, simple technological things.
37:17Now I've got technology everywhere in my home.
37:21I got an electrician come in
37:23and fix up my cooker
37:25so that it's now on a timer.
37:27It means that I'm not going to set fire to the house,
37:30so that's a really good thing.
37:31I have a motion detection system
37:35which basically recognises
37:38when I'm moving around in the house.
37:40That one goes back to a base
37:42who send out a text to my daughter
37:46just to let them know that I'm up and about each day.
37:49Sorry, that's one of my prompts.
37:52Is it time to walk around and have a drink?
37:54That prompt to have a drink and walk around
37:56is just to remind me that I need to keep my fluids up
37:59and it's to remind me to go to the bathroom
38:01because I can forget,
38:04which isn't pleasant.
38:05So I have this robotic dog.
38:13When he's calm,
38:13you can actually feel a heartbeat.
38:16Hello.
38:17People love them.
38:19It's just that I don't.
38:21When he keeps wanting to talk to me
38:23and yap at me and carry on,
38:25I want to throw him out the window.
38:28But that's just me.
38:30The yapping I find really annoying,
38:32so luckily I can mute it
38:34but then it's a bit creepy
38:35when it's moving around
38:36without making any sound.
38:40Oh, now the phone's going.
38:41There you are.
38:42It's all happening.
38:43Right.
38:43You're quiet now.
38:45But my biggest help
38:47is just my telephone,
38:48my alarm system and my telephone.
38:51I found out I could record messages.
38:53It's like having a carer living with me
38:55only it's my voice.
38:56Hey, Bobby, it's tablet time.
38:58Shh, stop.
38:58I'm always arguing with myself.
39:00OK, got it.
39:01Yeah, I know.
39:01Tablet time, I'm going.
39:03Coming, shh, stop.
39:04Thank you.
39:05My current motto,
39:07the only fear is no Wi-Fi.
39:11Without my technology here at home,
39:13I couldn't function.
39:15It's helped me to survive.
39:18Hey, Google, help me.
39:20Am I getting worse?
39:22Some days are better than others.
39:25Keep on doing your best.
39:26You're still managing so much better
39:28than others expect you to.
39:30Be kind to yourself.
39:31Sometimes, when you live alone,
39:34you just need somebody to remind you
39:36of the things that you have to remind yourself
39:40other times.
39:46I would actually quite like a robot.
39:48We know that there's not the manpower out there
39:51to look after the ageing population as it is.
39:55and we all want to stay at home.
39:58None of us want to go into care.
39:59I honestly believe that technology is the future for us.
40:04Bobby, it's time to put the washing on
40:06or take it out or hang it out.
40:09I don't believe that necessarily having dementia,
40:14living with dementia, means suffering.
40:18There's me and there's my dementia.
40:21We sit alongside each other,
40:22but dementia's not me.
40:24Dementia doesn't make me what I am.
40:26It's just something that gets in the way sometimes
40:28of letting me be what I want to be.
40:31Hey Google, play An Elegant Affair from Spotify.
40:35All right.
40:36I've been a dancer all my life.
40:38That's what I miss.
40:40There was actually a recent fundraiser here
40:42on the Central Coast.
40:43Dance Against Dementia, they called it.
40:45The guy that was organising, it was a really nice man.
40:49When we started dancing, he said,
40:51you're a dancer.
40:52And I said, I used to be a dancer.
40:55So he said, I can tell you're a dancer.
40:57I can feel it in the way you move.
40:59It was one of the nicest things anybody said to me
41:01for a long time,
41:02because I recognised that that's something
41:04that has left my life.
41:07And him saying that really made me feel as if,
41:12yeah, you know what, I am a dancer.
41:13I might not be in a dancer anymore,
41:15but this will stop me being a dancer.
41:23What do you wish we would change
41:25about the way society deals
41:27with people living with dementia?
41:29I wish the stigma would stop.
41:32The minute you get diagnosed, people recoil.
41:36If I had cancer, people would be gathering around,
41:39people would be supporting me.
41:41The minute you're diagnosed with dementia,
41:43your friends leave, people recoil.
41:46So can you go back and tell me about that moment
41:49when you got the diagnosis?
41:51How did it feel at that moment?
41:53I went home to die.
41:55I took to my bed.
41:56I stopped showering.
41:57I'm still ready to die.
41:59I'm not doing it today.
42:01But at that time, I just wanted to die.
42:04I wanted to do it quick.
42:05So if you don't eat and you don't drink,
42:06you've got a good chance of dying.
42:08I was 59 when I was diagnosed with younger-onset dementia.
42:12Dementia's here.
42:13It's like COVID.
42:14It's running rampant.
42:16We're not going to avoid it because we don't know the cures.
42:18We don't know the causes.
42:20We know some modifiable factors.
42:22But I'm a perfect example of modifiable factors.
42:25I've never drunk alcohol.
42:27I've never smoked cigarettes.
42:28Never had a cup of coffee in my life.
42:30I think it's the most neglected illness in our society.
42:34I remember one fellow who was the British boxing champion.
42:39He would run a half marathon each day,
42:41go to the gym, work out and do boxing.
42:43Then he got younger-onset dementia.
42:46He was put into a nursing home,
42:47brought over by his family,
42:48put into a nursing home.
42:49and they wondered why he was wandering,
42:52intrusive, aggressive.
42:54There was no exercise for him to do.
42:57There was nothing to expend his activity on.
42:59Nowhere for him to wander.
43:01We don't wander, John.
43:03We walk.
43:04Change your language.
43:05That's typical geriatrician medical language.
43:08We aren't deficits.
43:10You can't talk they.
43:11You have to accept that we are all individuals
43:14and we walk.
43:15We don't wander.
43:16We don't have behaviour.
43:17Walking, but exercising, walking.
43:19That's the deal.
43:20You don't disagree on it as much as you think you do,
43:21I don't think.
43:22This is where you come in with ageism, though.
43:25Because with dementia, we talk,
43:27we change the language.
43:29Suddenly they're childlike.
43:30Suddenly they wander.
43:32They have behaviours.
43:34I would hate to end up with a dementia
43:38that you turn into a really agro person.
43:43Like me.
43:45No, that lashes out.
43:47You know, physically.
43:49And has to be kept under control and whatever.
43:53I would hate that.
43:55So there's been a lot of talk about ageing.
44:00I'm interested in death.
44:02John, what does a good death look like to you?
44:04Well, I'm in a privileged position, again.
44:07Being a doctor, I can sort of determine the time of my death.
44:12Look, it's very much bound up with my wife.
44:15So if she has a problem that restricts the quality of her life,
44:25I think we'd be probably happy to go together.
44:27I'm not quite so concerned about the quality of my life,
44:38although I would never want to wind up in residential aged care.
44:42I would probably do something to end it before I wind up in residential aged care.
44:46Being a gay man, the only thing that worries me about getting older is going into a home,
44:58being looked after by people that aren't in my mindset, you know,
45:04would probably think, oh, you know, he's an old poof.
45:07You know what I mean?
45:08Until two months ago, I would have said I'm never going to a residential aged care facility.
45:13I have now found three in Australia that I would go to,
45:17which gives everybody hope there are some good residential aged care facilities.
45:22I could not have said that three months ago.
45:24Interesting.
45:25Gwenda, do you have an end-of-life plan?
45:27Absolutely.
45:28Tell me about it.
45:30I am going to walk naked at a nude beach,
45:34and I'm going to walk into the ocean.
45:36I came into the world naked.
45:37I said I'll leave naked at a nude beach.
45:40Trouble is that now I've lost my driver's licence,
45:43I'm going to have to have somebody assist me,
45:45which leaves them vulnerable to the law.
45:48But I will certainly end my life my way.
45:51But voluntary assisted dying,
45:54I'm deemed as having no capacity to give authority.
45:58I don't know what I'm doing because I have a dementia diagnosis.
46:02So this is an important point, right?
46:03So voluntary assisted dying, it is legal throughout Australia,
46:06but not for people with dementia.
46:08Does that need to change, John?
46:11Look, firstly, I'm not sure I agree that Gwenda does not have capacity.
46:15I don't think just because you have dementia you don't have the capacity.
46:18I think the problem more would be getting someone to say
46:20that Gwenda is going to die within the next 12 months.
46:23That's because you've got to have a condition that's going to kill you within six months
46:28if it's like cancer or something,
46:31or if it's a neurodegenerative disease within 12 months.
46:33I have put up one person with dementia for voluntary assisted dying
46:37and he was knocked back.
46:39I didn't agree with the decision, but he was knocked back.
46:42What does healthy ageing look like to you, Linda?
46:45It's about attitude, which might be...
46:48I mean, we've got a lot of attitude here
46:50that I think really contributes to your vitality.
46:55The attitude to want to be satisfied
46:59or to see a completion of a project
47:02or to enjoy the connection and intimacy that you do.
47:08But find another mammal to cuddle.
47:12Lindy, your mum's over 100 years old.
47:15When you ask her now about her life, what makes a good life,
47:20what does she say?
47:21Eat no fat.
47:24She gave us a whole lecture.
47:25You want to live long, you eat no fat.
47:27OK.
47:28One of the best conversations I had with mum was about two weeks ago
47:32when I simply asked her,
47:34Mum, are you OK with your life?
47:36and she most beautifully just sort of turned to me
47:40and she grinned and she said,
47:42Ah, I satisfy.
47:45And, like, that is just the...
47:46You know, that is the best answer possible.
47:49Mm.
47:50You promise you keep me secret?
47:52Yeah.
47:52It's very serious.
47:53Why said that?
47:54Very important.
47:55I can't tell anybody else, OK?
47:57OK, all right.
47:57You don't tell anybody.
47:58OK, all right.
48:00Your secret?
48:01Mm-hmm.
48:01I love you!
48:03Oh!
48:03I love you!
48:04Doesn't it say good?
48:06Yeah.
48:07It's a secret.
48:09We all love you.
48:10Oh, yeah.
48:11Of course.
48:13It's funny.
48:14One is very good.
48:16Well, interestingly, most older people are happier than younger people.
48:20I mean, there's a lot of depression and loneliness at an older age.
48:24Mm.
48:24But if you actually survey the community, the levels of life satisfaction and happiness are
48:30highest in older people.
48:33So most people are finding older age a pleasant part of their life.
48:38Thank you all so much for coming.
48:41And I suppose, in the spirit of Lindy's mum, I'm going to toast to being satisfied.
48:48Oh, yes.
48:49Cheers.
48:50Thank you all so much.
48:51Thank you.
48:51Thank you.
48:52I can't reach all the way over there.
48:53My arms are not long enough.
48:57Coming up next week, enter the Menopause Warriors.
49:00More than a decade of feeling like shit.
49:04But not for everybody.
49:05Not for everybody.
49:06But for a lot of women.
49:08Because I remember my mother's generation, I remember them being in a cardiganed coven
49:11in the corner of the kitchen, talking about the change, you know, as a Voldemort was coming.
49:16Inside the Menopause Industrial Complex.
49:19It's really clever marketing.
49:21Women are being preyed upon by companies that are making products that say they do stuff
49:28that they don't do.
49:29They're only trading off it.
49:30Because there's a gap.
49:32GPs definitely need to be not dismissing women.
49:34Menopause is very natural.
49:36It's just part of life.
49:38Yes, it's natural.
49:39But it doesn't mean that people like us need to suffer.
49:41I want to have to flip this table, but I might.
49:43Emergency.
49:44Emergency.
49:45Emergency.
49:46And life after menopause.
49:49Sex gets better and better and better.
49:51Well, I can't believe I'm even vertical right now.
49:54That's next week on Tell Me What You Really Think.
49:57I'll see you next week on Tell Me What You Think.
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