Sheryl Crow, Maren Morris, and Audrey McGraw represent three generations of women redefining what it means to be a songwriter. In the latest episode of ELLE’s 'Three Generations,' the legendary musician, the Grammy-winning hitmaker, and the rising voice come together for a candid conversation about the craft, courage, and conviction it takes to turn life into lyrics. Watch as Sheryl reflects on the controversy surrounding her second album, Maren opens up about finding her voice in country music, and Audrey shares how artistry and authenticity go hand in hand. Together, they prove that great songwriting transcends eras and true artists will never just “shut up and sing.”
#SherylCrow #MarenMorris #AudreyMcGraw #ThreeGenerations #ELLE
#SherylCrow #MarenMorris #AudreyMcGraw #ThreeGenerations #ELLE
Category
✨
PeopleTranscript
00:00Can you truly enjoy music or songwriting because you're not analyzing it?
00:04I recommend weed.
00:06That takes the analyzing away.
00:08I really don't think I felt like I was a great songwriter until my favorite mistake.
00:14I've never understood the critique that artists get for speaking out.
00:18It's part of who we are.
00:19You've read the mirror and why don't you just shut up and sing?
00:23Which is physically impossible. You can't fucking shut up and sing.
00:27I've never understood that.
00:28Okay, I'm stealing that.
00:30Okay, are we going? Let's do it.
00:32Let's do it.
00:34Okay, are we going? Let's do it. Let's do it.
00:48And your little guy is living school? He is, yeah. Hi.
00:51Hello. Beautiful people. I can't believe.
00:55It's nice to sit with working women. I know. No one's retired.
01:00Oh, here we go. I love this. I'm so happy.
01:03Um, I know Maren knows this, but there's so many great young women who are writing great material and it gives me so much hope about the future, but generationally to get to see you.
01:19And now you're coming in and it's so, for me it's so, so inspiring. It makes me want to keep going. It makes me want to keep getting better as a songwriter. You know what I mean?
01:37Yeah. I mean, you've always been so supportive of me like I think one of my first sort of I've made it moments was getting a voicemail from you and the fact that like
01:53I mean, it was not an Instagram DM. It was like you found my phone number and called me.
01:58I stopped you.
01:59You heard my church.
02:01But it was just like my church.
02:03I thought it was like before AI and all this stuff. So I was like, is this real? Is it really her?
02:08And I had to like confirm with someone we both knew that it was your number. But I, you know, when I was writing and getting my voice, I felt like,
02:18you know, you had been so influential on me since, you know, I was a kid. And so,
02:22but it never occurred to me that I could just do whatever I wanted because you were, and you just like fit where your music fit, but you were also blowing down these bumpers on the lanes.
02:36And that voicemail you left gave me a lot of perspective of like, oh, I could do this in any which way I want. Like, I have the cosign of Cheryl.
02:45This is embarrassing. It's not embarrassing, but I'm going to say it to you because you're sitting right here. I used to sing.
02:56If it makes you happy to myself in the mirror all the time.
03:01I love that.
03:02Like screaming, crying, not even singing.
03:06I was, because I was like.
03:07I used to sing Landslide. We, I mean, you know, with the curling iron.
03:12Yeah.
03:12Just like, because it gave me so much. I don't even know where it came from because I was a kid. I'm like, why do I have, why do I have this much rage?
03:19It gave me so much rage.
03:20Because it's in that iconic scene of Crossroads with Britney Spears.
03:24Oh, with Britney Spears. Yes.
03:26Yes.
03:26If it makes you happy, then why the hell are you so sad?
03:36I met you, it might have not been the first time I met you, but definitely early, early days.
03:41I was living in L.A., and you and your dad and your sisters came and hung out and swam in the pool, and you were little.
03:54And then, of course, I would run across Faith, and I had kids, and then it was all about our kids.
04:00Yeah.
04:00And so I was constantly hearing about you, and then next thing I know, you're opening up for Brandi Carlo.
04:06So, it's, was it fun?
04:08Are you loving, are you enjoying the process?
04:11Yeah.
04:11I hate Renee. She's so not good.
04:14No, it was, it was, honestly, I still have to, like, play it back in my memory.
04:20It was so cool.
04:21Amazing.
04:21Oh, my God, and she's just the best.
04:24That's how I feel about the both of you.
04:26Like, you guys are able to inspire in a way where you don't have to confine to one thing.
04:34Yeah.
04:34Yet, you still stay very grounded in what your artistry is, and allow yourself to explore.
04:44And I just, it's very empowering to listen to that.
04:49And then, I mean, behind that, having such, like, sultry and powerful and strong vocals.
04:57Oh, my God, talk about strong vocals.
04:59I know.
05:00Have you heard this woman? I mean, okay, stop, I'm going to smack you.
05:05I know, it's hard for people to talk to you about you, but to watch you step into your zone has been really, really fun.
05:14You know what I mean?
05:15Especially when it's, like, such a unique voice.
05:18Yeah.
05:19It's, like, I was talking to someone the other day where it's, like, can you truly enjoy music or songwriting just watching a show anymore because you're not analyzing it?
05:28Yeah.
05:28I was, like, sometimes it's hard for me to not, like, go into writer brain or vocalist brain.
05:35So, when you do have someone that just removes that analytical part of you and you just get to be, like, a feeler, it's so rare.
05:44And I think that's...
05:45I recommend weed.
05:47Okay.
05:48I'm kidding.
05:48I'm kidding.
05:49That takes the analyzing away.
05:51Or I'll be more analytical because I'm high.
05:54No, that is true.
05:55That is true.
05:56That is true.
05:57We should have brought some shit.
05:58Yeah, I know.
05:59Oh, my gosh.
06:00No, but that's how I felt when I heard your voice because it's just so, like, chocolatey, like, alto.
06:17So, Audrey, I wanted to ask, was there one song that, whether you play it in your show now or not, just made you feel like a solidified writer?
06:24I don't know.
06:25I think the first, like, solid song I wrote, I was maybe 17?
06:33I'm pretty sure I called it Mental Breakdown because I was having a mental breakdown when I wrote it.
06:39And I showed it to my parents and I was so scared to show it to them because everything I made, I hid.
06:46Not because they were, you know, harsh or unsupportive.
06:51I just, it was just a lot of pressure.
06:53Yeah, because they're not your just normal parents.
06:56I know.
06:56They know a little something about running songs.
06:57Because I'm fans of them.
06:59I don't know.
06:59Yeah.
07:00So, I was always nervous to show them what I wrote, but I showed them this one song.
07:05And my dad was like, why, why, why are you going to drama school?
07:10Why do you want to be an actor?
07:12He goes, are you sure?
07:14And I was like, why, is it good?
07:15He's like, it's pretty good.
07:18And that song hasn't seen the light of day.
07:19But I think him giving me the confidence after I showed him this song.
07:24Yeah, you pivoted.
07:25Now watch, you'll put that out someday and it'll be your biggest song.
07:28Yeah, it's one of those just like the weird ones.
07:30Yeah, what about y'all?
07:32You know, it's funny.
07:33I really don't think I felt like I was a great songwriter until my favorite mistake, which
07:39was my second record.
07:40Oh, my God.
07:41When you go, all I know is you're my favorite mistake.
07:47In fact, what was funny about it is that I was playing bass and Jeff was playing those
07:53chords.
07:54And I started singing on the mic and wrote the song on the mic and then filled in the
08:00blanks.
08:00And it felt like something that had already been written.
08:03And so I called Amy Mann because I was like, I've written a song and I think you might have
08:08written it already.
08:09And she's like, no, I have not written that song, but I wish I would have.
08:14And then I called my publisher and said, can you find out if anybody's, I feel like I've
08:18stolen this song.
08:19And it was really the first time I ever felt like, okay, I wrote a song that feels really
08:24good.
08:25Yeah.
08:25You know what I mean?
08:26And it's still the only song that I'll hear on the radio of mine that I don't, like,
08:32you know.
08:34Really?
08:34Yeah.
08:35Well, I mean, I don't like watching myself.
08:37I don't enjoy hearing my, you know, I mean, but that song, I don't know why.
08:42I don't know.
08:44Oh, God.
08:44What would you say about yours?
08:45I mean, I'll, I'll give an answer, but I sometimes forget, like, how, like, who you
08:51are, like, because we've, like, known each other so long and, like, you've met my son
08:56and, like, when you say song titles.
08:59Who I am going to kidnap.
08:59When my kids leave, I'm going to kidnap.
09:01You're going to come on one day and go.
09:02Yeah.
09:03Where is my kid?
09:04Anyway, carry on.
09:05This is interesting to say out loud and that you're here because the first song I felt
09:12like a writer, writer, especially in Nashville, was, it was, like, eight months into me living
09:18there.
09:19And I wrote this song with my, well, weirdly enough, now ex-husband, who I love dearly.
09:25But we wrote this song called Last Turn Home.
09:29And the next day, it felt like an episode of the show Nashville.
09:33It was happening way too quick.
09:34But they were, like, Tim McGraw is recording this.
09:37And I was, like, don't you mean he's putting it on hold?
09:39And they're, like, no, he heard it on his way home last night and, like, the demo.
09:45And they're, like, no, he's recording it in, like, two days.
09:48And I was, like, bullshit.
09:50Yeah, okay.
09:51And I was, like, eight months into my publishing deal or, like, into my year living there.
09:55And sure enough, like, he recorded it.
09:58They threw, like, an album release party.
10:01And, like, he played a couple of songs.
10:04And then they played the record.
10:05And your mom was there.
10:07And I remember she pulled me aside and she was, like, this is one of my favorites on this
10:10album.
10:10And I was, like, thank you.
10:13But that was my first cut.
10:14And it was never, like, a single.
10:16But it gave me so much, like, street cred on Music Row because people were, like,
10:20who wrote this?
10:22Oh, my gosh.
10:22And it was, like, my first big, you know, recording from another artist.
10:27And, like, it was Tim.
10:28So.
10:28How cool is that?
10:29Yeah.
10:29It's, that was my first cut was, like, your dad.
10:32You're like that last turn home.
10:39You know, it's really funny when I think about how much our industry has changed.
10:43So when I was, I think it was my second record.
10:47And, I mean, I can't even believe when I tell this story that we're, where we're at now.
10:52But there was something in the news.
10:54And I know you guys do this as well.
10:55You see something in the news and you're like, okay, I, what, I just have to write about it.
11:00And so when I was making the second record, there was a shooting.
11:04And it was done by a kid who'd gone into Walmart and bought cop killer bullets.
11:11And I just found that to be shocking that anybody could just go in and buy a gun.
11:16Yeah.
11:18And kill somebody.
11:19Watch your sister, watch your brother, watch your children while they kill each other with a gun they bought at Walmart discount stores.
11:27And when the album was coming out, because I had named Walmart, they said they wouldn't carry my record.
11:35And, unfortunately, at that time, all the mom and pops had pretty much been put out of business.
11:39And so it was Target, Kmart, and Walmart.
11:41And Walmart being the predominant one.
11:44And they did tell me if I would change it to Kmart, they would carry it.
11:47And I'm like, it was.
11:50That's not where the shooting was, though.
11:51But the interesting thing is, though, was stuff like that happens.
11:55I mean, I think this is where music and politics sometimes intersect, is that you create such a conversation.
12:01People knew when the record was coming out that they might have to figure out a way to find it because Walmart wouldn't carry it.
12:08And it was, the news was everywhere.
12:10And people wouldn't buy the record because of that.
12:12Yeah.
12:13Have you ever had that experience where you felt like politics weighed in on what you were doing?
12:19I mean, yeah, I think all the time.
12:22I've had moments, like, after George Floyd's murder, I wrote a song called Better Than We Found It.
12:27Oh, will we leave this world better than we found it?
12:36Yeah, I mean, I've certainly always, like, felt it.
12:39It's funny, that song, my mom always, and probably your mom said the same thing, always said,
12:46you just need to leave the campground nicer than you found it, or better than you found it.
12:49And when you put that song out, I was just like, first I was like, oh, my God, I love it.
12:55And then I was like, damn it.
12:56Yeah.
12:57I wanted to write that song.
13:00I wish I would have written that.
13:01Oh, well, thank you.
13:02So good.
13:03But, yeah, I think what you said was, like, it's inspiring or starting a conversation, which was the point.
13:12Yeah.
13:12So I've never understood the critique that artists get for speaking out about their beliefs,
13:18because it's part of who we are.
13:21And politics are humanity.
13:24It's people.
13:24It's, like, it affects everyone.
13:26Yeah.
13:26So why shouldn't artists be humans, too?
13:28And we're mirrors.
13:30Yeah.
13:31Like, artists, songwriters, like, creatives are mirrors to what's happening in society.
13:37So to be, like, punished or admonished for that, I've had, like, the Tucker Carlson talking
13:44shit about me.
13:44And then a lunatic called Maren Morris, some kind of fake country music singer.
13:49I've, of course, like, you know, dealt with the backlash over the years of, you know, being more than just a voice on a song.
14:01Like, being...
14:02You've read the Maren one that you just shut up and sing?
14:06Yeah.
14:07I've read that about 9,000 times.
14:10Which is physically impossible.
14:12You can't fucking shut up and sing.
14:14And sing.
14:14I've never understood that.
14:16Okay, I'm stealing that.
14:18Oh, my God, why didn't I think of that?
14:19I'm so stealing that.
14:20Yeah.
14:20Oh, my God.
14:21Dude.
14:21It doesn't make sense.
14:22Listen to yourself.
14:23I know.
14:23You can't shut up and sing.
14:26Yeah, physically impossible.
14:26Yeah, I mean, like, of course, I've, I've lost, you know, fans along the way that, like, thought I was this, like, my church girl.
14:36And, I mean, it's still, like, a daily struggle sometimes.
14:42But I'm also, yeah, it's just, you sort of have to, like, accept that I'm growing and I'm changing.
14:48And that kind of, like, makes people, some people uncomfortable, but I can't, like, do the same, like, revolving door that a lot of people do because they want to keep, like, the dollars in their pocket.
15:01Yeah.
15:01And they're terrified of, you know, losing what they've built, which I guess is, like, completely understandable.
15:09Yeah.
15:09But also, it's just not for me.
15:12Because I shouldn't be over you, but I see that empty room.
15:23What do you see yourself doing?
15:26I don't know.
15:27I mean, just, I love being in the studio.
15:30I think that's my favorite place.
15:32That's your favorite place.
15:32Yeah.
15:32And I love performing.
15:34I used to, it took me a long time to really have the confidence to actually pursue music because.
15:41It does take a long time.
15:42Yeah.
15:43I had, like, stage fright, like, throw up and I was, like, I'm even shaking right now talking to people.
15:48But I, I, I, I got so scared and I was, like, I can't, I can't get on stage.
15:52I can't sing in front of people.
15:54So it took me a long time to overcome that.
15:56Yeah.
15:57And now that I, you know, I still get really nervous, but now that I, I feel more comfortable when I'm on stage, I'm, like, I don't want to get off.
16:06So I see myself in the studio.
16:09I see myself playing gigs as much as I can and playing little bars as much as I can because that's the best.
16:19Yeah.
16:19Yeah.
16:20Yeah.
16:20I don't know.
16:21It's good to get that, um, that experience.
16:23I, I find, I mean, I, I feel like if I had to come up now, I would really struggle with it because there's so much, and there's just so much attention with cell phones, you two.
16:35I mean, when I, when I first came out, came out, I mean, there weren't any cell phones.
16:38And I think maybe 15 years into having played bars and having, I mean, there's a lot of years in there where I got to just be terrible, you know what I mean, before I could figure out how to be really great.
16:52Yeah.
16:52And there wasn't scrutinies.
16:54But for you guys, it's a different thing.
16:57Social media.
16:58Social media.
16:59Which I'm so bad at.
17:00Yeah.
17:00I, um.
17:01I'm so bad at it.
17:02I post the most random, can I cuss?
17:05Shit.
17:06Yeah.
17:07I post the most random stuff on my social media.
17:10But I, I, I, I hear like what, what my mom and dad talk about and how, how they came up and how they had so much room to, to fuck up, or mess up.
17:20Yeah.
17:20And, sorry.
17:22I think Elle's fine with the word fuck.
17:24Yeah.
17:25Okay, great.
17:26Okay, thank God.
17:27My mom's going to be so proud of me.
17:28Bastard, does that work?
17:29Asshole, does that work?
17:31Okay.
17:31Oh my God, I love you.
17:32What's the list?
17:33Um, yeah.
17:34Yeah, so it's just like, there's definitely a, a magnifying glass on artists nowadays because it's like your every move when you perform or release something obviously gets seen.
17:46Yeah.
17:47And, you know.
17:48Unless you're having to like promote yourself.
17:50Mm-hmm.
17:51And you're, you're kind of curating a brand, which I, I think I would have been terrible at.
17:54Um, I was talking to Zed years ago about these sort of algorithmic numbers and, um, hits on a post and he obviously is in a very different lane than me, but we worked together and he was like, I could have literally four likes on a post and nothing is translating to the show.
18:18Like, like the real bodies are at the show and that's obviously someone that's built a fan base over years, but like engagement on a post translating to like people showing up for something and buying merch and being in that room with you is so like unscalable sometimes.
18:36This is very random, but, um, my mom does not make memories anymore.
18:48And I was thinking about it the other day because when I play the piano, my mom suddenly is my mom, you know, she'll, she, her voice was always amazing and I can play Burt Bacharach or Henry Mancini or, and she's immediately back in it.
19:06She's like, you know, walk on by.
19:10I mean, she's there, you know, and, um, and I was thinking about it.
19:14I was like, gosh, you know, Burt Bacharach died a few years ago.
19:16And he, I mean, he knew all day long he had hits.
19:19I mean, he had songs reported by everybody, right?
19:22By the greatest.
19:24But can you ever know that after you're gone that a song could connect somebody to somebody they're losing?
19:33That, that, that a song, I mean, the, to me, the profundity of that, where I think, gosh, I've had a great run writing songs, but you don't really even know
19:44what song you have might go on without you.
19:48Yeah.
19:49You know what I'm saying?
19:50And what a tremendous occupation, you know what I mean?
19:55I watched this Jeff Buckley documentary recently.
19:57He said they, all I know is that if anything's going to be left, it's going to be, my music's always going to be there.
20:03Mm-hmm.
20:03And, you know, have my family, have my close friends, and hope they remember me.
20:09Yeah.
20:09And good light.
20:11If they don't, that's fine, too.
20:13But the music will always be there.
20:15Yeah.
20:15Like, your, your songs are eternalized, and not in a way of, like, oh, you know, I have some legacy, or slap my name on the side of a building or plane.
20:27Like, they end up living on without you.
20:30Yes.
20:31And take on different meanings to other people, and that's just me, like, having songs around for, like, 10 or 15 years, but already, like, have evolved into something that was different from the day I wrote it.
20:43Yeah.
20:44Absolutely.
20:45I mean, there'll be people seeing my church, and, you know, I also think of it in terms, too, of, it is what you leave behind.
20:53As I get older, I think about some of the people that I am witnessing now, and I think, are you going to be proud of what you're leaving behind?
21:00You know?
21:01Yeah.
21:01Mm-hmm.
21:02Just my snarky comment.
21:06Snarky?
21:06But, you know.
21:07I mean, look, it goes to show that it truly impacts people, music and art in general.
21:14This has been so lovely.
21:15Like, I don't get to see you enough, and I'm so happy that I've gotten to, like, chat with you.
21:19I know.
21:19I'm so happy for you.
21:20We're all kind of neighbors.
21:22I know.
21:23I know.
21:24Let's smoke some weed.
21:26Drink some wine.
21:27I know.
21:28We need a good port.
21:29I'll have a beer.
21:30Oh, yeah.
21:31Port cheng.
21:31Yeah.
21:32Good port cheng.
21:32Yeah.
21:33I would love that.
21:34There we go.
21:36You might.
Recommended
6:04
2:25
7:33
4:51
Be the first to comment